The Coaching Job Is 12 Months Now?

[Mashburns]

I'm just now seeing that the last official day for a few lucky/un-lucky coaches is next Friday December 13th right? That means that these coaches are working from January to January because of the early signing day in December now these coaches are engaged in their programs for 12 months no break and majority of these guys are Teachers first right? because that is what pay their bills I will assume because I don't think the state/county stipends pay the bills in majority of these programs. I know the demands on these coaches is UN-realistic because they do have to work on top of coach "year-round" but that explains the job openings are double digit each year because of the stress that has to put on coaches and their families. Now seeing these games pushed into Mid-December then college recruiting #1, College recruiting #2 (Feb), off season training, 7 on 7's, spring football, summer tours/training, and then fall camp. That is a lot to do for anyone but to have a regular 9-5 on top of that i'm sure can be tough.    

[SportsNut25]

45 minutes ago, Mashburns said:

that explains the job openings are double digit each year

They are actually triple digit each year. 

Usually ends up somewhere around 115-130, which is roughly 20% of the head coaching positions in the state. 

[Mashburns]

1 hour ago, SportsNut25 said:

They are actually triple digit each year. 

Usually ends up somewhere around 115-130, which is roughly 20% of the head coaching positions in the state. 

And if the coaches are not working around the calendar then their players will transfer out because "X" coach are working around the clock and now you have a less talented program which means you lose games and now you are fired from your teaching and coaching job and is forced to relocate your family all for like a $8,000 supplement coaching job? 

[badbird]

5 minutes ago, Mashburns said:

And if the coaches are not working around the calendar then their players will transfer out because "X" coach are working around the clock and now you have a less talented program which means you lose games and now you are fired from your teaching and coaching job and is forced to relocate your family all for like a $8,000 supplement coaching job? 

8K I wish.  Try 3-4K in most counties for head football coach

[Mashburns]

My question is why doesn't the state allow boosters to raise money for coaches or give these guys incentive performance base contracts? I mean to pay those guys one set stipend if Team A goes 2-8 or 15-0, what is the motivation or carrot for these coaches?

But we then complain when the coaches leave for other states that will pay them for the work they do. 

[Perspective]

1 hour ago, Mashburns said:

My question is why doesn't the state allow boosters to raise money for coaches or give these guys incentive performance base contracts? I mean to pay those guys one set stipend if Team A goes 2-8 or 15-0, what is the motivation or carrot for these coaches?

But we then complain when the coaches leave for other states that will pay them for the work they do. 

I don't know for sure, but my guess is that the state (i.e., the FHSAA) doesn't want to see high school football --at least as it relates to public schools -- turn into the "haves" and the "have nots" based on socio-economic factors.  If booster clubs are allowed to supplement coaching salaries, the rich will get richer and the poor will stay poor.   Just a hunch.

[Mashburns]

3 minutes ago, Perspective said:

I don't know for sure, but my guess is that the state (i.e., the FHSAA) doesn't want to see high school football --at least as it relates to public schools -- turn into the "haves" and the "have nots" based on socio-economic factors.  If booster clubs are allowed to supplement coaching salaries, the rich will get richer and the poor will stay poor.   Just a hunch.

Great point there but also having the private schools playing with different rules, regulations and also a different purse gives them an unfair advantage. Look at some of the private schools facilities, equipment, coaching staff, travel operations and etc. But yes like you stated it will probably turn into that have and have not landscape but the current system is out dated for sure.  

[gatorman-uf]

1 hour ago, Mashburns said:

My question is why doesn't the state allow boosters to raise money for coaches or give these guys incentive performance base contracts? I mean to pay those guys one set stipend if Team A goes 2-8 or 15-0, what is the motivation or carrot for these coaches?

But we then complain when the coaches leave for other states that will pay them for the work they do. 

Some school districts do have longevity increases in their stipends for coaches ( so the more years you are at the school the more you get paid). Additionally, some school district do give additional supplements for each week that that they advance in the playoffs (but a super majority of them do not).

Where is it written that a booster club can't give money to a coach for off-season programs? For running a 7 on 7 team, or running the weight room in the summer time. 

To answer the original question though... yes, coaching for almost all sports has become an all year function. The days of part-time coaches is slowly vanishing. You still see part time coaches in sports where the school can't get someone who wants to do fulltime or they have ulterior motivies. A friend applied for a girls basketball position at doormat school (he was "qualified" having been an assistant coach for an above average program for 5-6 years). The school instead gave the position to an assistant football coach so that they could supplement his income a little more because they knew he wasn't getting much as a football coach. The school is still a doormat program (I don't think they have won more than 5 games in any year in the past 20 years). 

[youngandrunning]

From my understanding of education finances and ethics (i.e. redbook and certain allotments given by the state),

Boosters that are governed, audited, or organized by a school official or within the school's county system cannot and will not give money to coach's because of misuse of funds that are (most often in booster language) allotted for and donated on behalf of the students it should benefit. If the booster has, within their bylaws, that their are to be no members that are part of the "local county" school board employee or "any other county" school board employee- then and only then should it be possible and allowed by the state.

 

A large piece of this fancy pants language has to do with the FHSAA, and most of it's member schools, is still governed by state legislation and/or the same part of the government that directs state mandated testing and education laws and adjustments. If this booster money (the same booster that is associated with members of the local county school system) were to be allocated towards coaches it would then be considered "for profit" which is pretty much the complete opposite of public education.

Kind of hard to read, kind of hard to digest, maybe someone can simplify what I'm trying to put out there.

[Mashburns]

5 hours ago, youngandrunning said:

From my understanding of education finances and ethics (i.e. redbook and certain allotments given by the state),

Boosters that are governed, audited, or organized by a school official or within the school's county system cannot and will not give money to coach's because of misuse of funds that are (most often in booster language) allotted for and donated on behalf of the students it should benefit. If the booster has, within their bylaws, that their are to be no members that are part of the "local county" school board employee or "any other county" school board employee- then and only then should it be possible and allowed by the state.

 

A large piece of this fancy pants language has to do with the FHSAA, and most of it's member schools, is still governed by state legislation and/or the same part of the government that directs state mandated testing and education laws and adjustments. If this booster money (the same booster that is associated with members of the local county school system) were to be allocated towards coaches it would then be considered "for profit" which is pretty much the complete opposite of public education.

Kind of hard to read, kind of hard to digest, maybe someone can simplify what I'm trying to put out there.

Yes please simplify, so are they allowed or no? and if so why not more schools pay these guys and if not why it isn't allowed? 

[youngandrunning]

On 12/10/2019 at 3:27 PM, Mashburns said:

Yes please simplify, so are they allowed or no? and if so why not more schools pay these guys and if not why it isn't allowed? 

@Mashburns I don't want to speak with 100% certainty= just what I've been taught (or at least what I can remember), what I've inferred from experience as a coordinator and head coach at both 7A, 4A, 1A, and been told.

1 reason: They are not allowed to if the money is donated through kids (i.e. fundraiser, donations in the name of jimmy, etc). The reason being- that money is by kids and for kids. It should be well noted that most booster money comes from student fundraising and checks written on behalf of jimmy and his two little brothers. Money not raised from kids by redbook definition, could essentially go to a coaching staff- so long as the bilaws has provisions on how bonuses and payments are dispersed (or at least a calendar).

2 reason: They are not allowed to due to lack of a proficient finance operator within the booster. The Booster (if trying to allocate funds to a staff) would need to have seperate accounts for student raised money and 'random' donations. These random donations could be alumni, endowments, company sponsorships, etc etc. Too often all of the money goes into one account and the financial books are not established well enough to note the difference in what is raised by kids and donated without limits. Treasurers usually don't make copies, don't actually run a finance book, and only do audits when they are scared or a massive booster turnover.

3 reason: Most booster clubs, within bilaws, do not have a clause saying that a paying/active member cannot be part of the school board. The reason this is so important is because teachers cannot accept payments from within the school system that is not noted on pay stub. This is where things get sticky and a lot of my confusion starts. Small details such as where the meetings are held, meeting minutes, exact language, etc. All of these things cost money (i.e. lawyers for review), that most boosters aren't willing to pay due to the amount that the coach/kids would lose. 

4 reason: Lack of audits. Pretty simple, most boosters try and skate by. That just doesn't cut it and rarely have the ability to approve certain allotment.

Hope this clarifies some of my points, I also hope someone else with more experience can chime in.

[HornetFan]

Not being a teacher or coach, just a fan, i have noticed that coaching changes in high school football are not a rare occurrence. I follow the Orlando area because I live here and my grandsons play football here, one in a private school and the other in a public school. Most of the changes I see happen with schools that are not having great success or where there are extenuating circumstances. One extreme example here in Orlando is West Orange HS where I believe there have been 4 head football coaches this year' but that's extreme. As a booster, I agree that booster organizations should be able to supplement a coach's salary. It is a year round sport and requires a dedicated individual who loves the sport and working with the kids. For many kids, these coaches serve as a role model, many times being the only adult male with an important role in their lives. I think this is just as important as winning football games. These coaches also are a kids best chance for a potential football scholarship and a college education; they connect with college coaches and recruiters. I think most parents and boosters would be more than willing to help with the coaches' compensation, but I believe you would run into obstacles with non-coaching teachers objecting to any such help. With over 30 years as a Florida resident, in several areas of this state, I have yet to see a teachers group that I feel would endorse this without complaining about teachers being underpaid. 

[Mashburns]

On 12/13/2019 at 5:06 PM, HornetFan said:

Not being a teacher or coach, just a fan, i have noticed that coaching changes in high school football are not a rare occurrence. I follow the Orlando area because I live here and my grandsons play football here, one in a private school and the other in a public school. Most of the changes I see happen with schools that are not having great success or where there are extenuating circumstances. One extreme example here in Orlando is West Orange HS where I believe there have been 4 head football coaches this year' but that's extreme. As a booster, I agree that booster organizations should be able to supplement a coach's salary. It is a year round sport and requires a dedicated individual who loves the sport and working with the kids. For many kids, these coaches serve as a role model, many times being the only adult male with an important role in their lives. I think this is just as important as winning football games. These coaches also are a kids best chance for a potential football scholarship and a college education; they connect with college coaches and recruiters. I think most parents and boosters would be more than willing to help with the coaches' compensation, but I believe you would run into obstacles with non-coaching teachers objecting to any such help. With over 30 years as a Florida resident, in several areas of this state, I have yet to see a teachers group that I feel would endorse this without complaining about teachers being underpaid. 

Great point didn't think of the push back from teachers, I believe Texas has the same issue with the teachers complaining about the salary of some of the coaches out there.