Football playoff changes

[DisabledAccount]

9 minutes ago, Phfootball9 said:

First it is not  a selective memory, I understand why the panhandle used to fair better and why they struggle today. That changed with open enrollment, imo. Currently Dade county has a population larger than the entire panhandle. The entire county is easily accessible by public transportation. The are no barriers to transfer to any school you like. Who would guess the Dade all-star teams end up with great players. I don't have a perfect answer but I do understand the real problem. Acting like the real problem is not what needs to be addressed is not going to fix the problem, imo. 

And I'm saying selective memory on the idea of seeding the semifinals for travel and moving away from 1 vs 2 and 3 vs 4

 

Because I see many who say the system was at it's best in 70s and 80s but that idea of statewide travel was used those years and even had to use neutral site games for state championships so you didn't have a team making a 10+ hour trip from Miami to Pensacola or vise versa 

 

[Phfootball9]

You are simply wrong. Teams from large counties did not have 20 + players from other schools boundaries back in the day. Sure teams tried to get players but it was much harder. No one wants to say it but the free for all came From the forcing Lakeland to forfeit seasons when they decided they were going to play by STA's rules. Again the idiots did not address the real problem then either.

[Phfootball9]

46 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

And I'm saying selective memory on the idea of seeding the semifinals for travel and moving away from 1 vs 2 and 3 vs 4

 

Because I see many who say the system was at it's best in 70s and 80s but that idea of statewide travel was used those years and even had to use neutral site games for state championships so you didn't have a team making a 10+ hour trip from Miami to Pensacola or vise versa 

 

Again you are wrong about what used to happen. For example in 80 Tate played Columbus in final at a "neutral site", that being Escambia high. Which may be ten miles closer to Dade than Tate is. 

[DisabledAccount]

15 minutes ago, Phfootball9 said:

You are simply wrong. Teams from large counties did not have 20 + players from other schools boundaries back in the day. Sure teams tried to get players but it was much harder. No one wants to say it but the free for all came From the forcing Lakeland to forfeit seasons when they decided they were going to play by STA's rules. Again the idiots did not address the real problem then either.

I ain't talking about Back in the day I'm talking about a few years ago

 

You can't prove that the transfers skyrocketed from where they were in 2013-2016 to where they were in 2017-now because of the rule changes because it was already very high the preceding years before the "open enrollment" happened

[DisabledAccount]

3 minutes ago, Phfootball9 said:

Again you are wrong about what used to happen. For example in 80 Tate played Columbus in final at a "neutral site", that being Escambia high. Which may be ten miles closer to Dade than Tate is. 

I'll defer this part of the question to whoever wants to do historical research and see where some of these neutral sites were because that's not even my main focus atm but there were more "neutral sites" than that example

 

However I'm glad you point that out considering that may as well have been a statewide trip for a playoff game so how exactly is this idea of moving the semifinals around causing a serious increase in playoff travel compared to what was done in the past? 

 

[gatorman-uf]

It is almost an impossible question: 

We don't have the numbers/rosters/etc, from the 1970s and 1980s to be able to track a kid from 9-12th grade. Maybe there were transfers, but we can't tell. I know I was considered a transfer to my school in the 90s because I came from out of state,  but I did nothing to help the team succeed. 

As always transfers aren't helping good teams, they are already good. They are just making the middle of the road teams that much worse which is the bad thing for the sport. Every team is trying to find an edge over another, but it is also the reason why promotion and relegation are easy answers. STA gets 4 transfers in, fine. Lakeland gets 4 transfers, fine. Columbus, Central, Cocoa, Bolles, Apopka, Columbia get 4 transfers in, fine. Let them all play against each other. 

[gatorman-uf]

3 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Does that mean those games weren't over the travel distance I said?

Besides since you did post a longer stretch there, Columbia since 2004 is 5-1 in games over 2 and a half hours 

So even if we don't count the 2 preseason games, the numbers still back my claim that Columbia has had no issues winning long travel games 

First, I did say they have done well (re-read please) (right before your bolding). 
S

4 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Since 2013 Columbia has won every game that was over 2 and a half hours 

Your quote makes it seem like Columbia is constantly playing games over 2.5 hours away since 2013. They have played 1. And nobody wins pre-season games. They are pre-season games. It is like you taking to task Vero Beach for saying they have the longest streak, but they aren't counting playoffs. The pre-season games DO NOT COUNT, because they are pre-season. They are glorified scrimmages. 

[DisabledAccount]

14 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

First, I did say they have done well (re-read please) (right before your bolding). 
S

Your quote makes it seem like Columbia is constantly playing games over 2.5 hours away since 2013. They have played 1. And nobody wins pre-season games. They are pre-season games. It is like you taking to task Vero Beach for saying they have the longest streak, but they aren't counting playoffs. The pre-season games DO NOT COUNT, because they are pre-season. They are glorified scrimmages. 

I pick 2013 because that was my freshman year of high school and that was when I started really following football in a bigger picture than just a causal fan

 

In my personal experience we don't lose those games which is why in the original post that started it I said I don't give a crap if the rule change forces us to have to travel some long bus ride because if anything it probably leans in our favor in the first place and to the first part I'm fully aware of that and it's more a response to panhandle dude who so focused on one loss like it means Columbia can't win games with long bus rides when it's the only said loss in the past 16 years 

[DisabledAccount]

22 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

It is almost an impossible question: 

We don't have the numbers/rosters/etc, from the 1970s and 1980s to be able to track a kid from 9-12th grade. Maybe there were transfers, but we can't tell. I know I was considered a transfer to my school in the 90s because I came from out of state,  but I did nothing to help the team succeed. 

As always transfers aren't helping good teams, they are already good. They are just making the middle of the road teams that much worse which is the bad thing for the sport. Every team is trying to find an edge over another, but it is also the reason why promotion and relegation are easy answers. STA gets 4 transfers in, fine. Lakeland gets 4 transfers, fine. Columbus, Central, Cocoa, Bolles, Apopka, Columbia get 4 transfers in, fine. Let them all play against each other. 

Only way we hit 4 transfers is if we counting freshman

 

[Phfootball9]

 You don't play those games so yes you don't lose any. The only playoff game that fits in the past 15 years CHS lost. So while you think somehow making this move is fine it is just another stupid proposal made by dummies that are ruining HS Football in Florida.

It will not fix the best two teams meeting in the semi problem because rpi did not project the best teams accurately statewide and it will not in the future either. It is very flawed.

The crowds get smaller every year. Football is dying because nobody will fix what needs to be fixed.

[DisabledAccount]

59 minutes ago, Phfootball9 said:

 You don't play those games so yes you don't lose any. The only playoff game that fits in the past 15 years CHS lost. So while you think somehow making this move is fine it is just another stupid proposal made by dummies that are ruining HS Football in Florida.

It will not fix the best two teams meeting in the semi problem because rpi did not project the best teams accurately statewide and it will not in the future either. It is very flawed.

The crowds get smaller every year. Football is dying because nobody will fix what needs to be fixed.

You have no clue what effort I put in to the Columbia program so who are you to tell me I don't lose any?

 

Nobody here  on this message board realizes the level of effort and sacrifice I put into what I do so don't put words into stuff you don't know or understand anything about 

[Perspective]

I'll tell you what.   If there's anyone out there that doesn't believe that traveling 6 hours or more for a playoff game adversely affects the traveling team's chances of winning, I'll make a blanket bet with you right here and now.   Over the next five years, in each high school football playoff game played in the state of Florida where one team has to travel 6 or more hours to play another team, I'll take the home team and you take the visiting team.  $100 per game.  No, you don't get to pick and choose which one or two games you bet on.  All or nothing.  Who's in? 

[DisabledAccount]

23 minutes ago, Perspective said:

I'll tell you what.   If there's anyone out there that doesn't believe that traveling 6 hours or more for a playoff game adversely affects the traveling team's chances of winning, I'll make a blanket bet with you right here and now.   Over the next five years, in each high school football playoff game played in the state of Florida where one team has to travel 6 or more hours to play another team, I'll take the home team and you take the visiting team.  $100 per game.  No, you don't get to pick and choose which one or two games you bet on.  All or nothing.  Who's in? 

I'm not saying it won't affect some teams 

 

I said you won't hear me complaining about Columbia losing because they have a long travel 

 

But if a team loses because they "had to make a longer travel" then maybe they aren't good enough to win a state championship anyway

[DisabledAccount]

On 1/30/2020 at 4:52 PM, Perspective said:

Got it.  I'm saving this for the next time that Columbia is the 6-A Region 1 champ . . .  and instead of making a two and a half hour trip down to Tampa or St. Pete to play the Region 2 winner, they have to travel six plus hours to play a top-seeded Miami school because the Region 2 and Region 3 schools' power rankings are both ever so slightly higher than Columbia's, thus knocking Columbia to the 4th seed . . . and some fan from say, the Lake City area, decides to complain about how it isn't fair to make make his boys travel on a bus for 6 hours before playing a game, I'm going to break this post out and point to it and remind them how happy they should be that they are just one game away from going to state.  Or not. 

 

On 1/30/2020 at 5:09 PM, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Last year Miami Central would have been a 2 or 3 seed so I'm not concerned

 

I am never concerned with travel on Columbia end as normally we do better on long travels anyway

 

 

 

[Perspective]

23 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

I'm not saying it won't affect some teams 

 

I said you won't hear me complaining about Columbia losing because they have a long travel 

 

But if a team loses because they "had to make a longer travel" then maybe they aren't good enough to win a state championship anyway

Dude, this wasn't directed solely to you.   It was directed to anyone who thinks that a six-hour plus bus ride will not adversely affect a team's chances of success.   Columbia may be the world's best road warrior team in the history of high school football.   I don't know and I don't care.   But, in my view, more visiting teams are going to lose games in which they've traveled that far than they will win them.   And, in my mind, the RPI simply isn't accurate enough to reward one team with a home game and punish another team with a long road game.  And it certainly shouldn't be used to make a south Florida team travel to the panhandle (or vice versa) just in hopes of creating a 1 vs. 2 match-up in the finals based on the regular season power rankings. 

Just an opinion.   Everyone has one  . . . . just like a---, well, just like noses. 

[Phfootball9]

On 2/5/2020 at 5:36 PM, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

You have no clue what effort I put in to the Columbia program so who are you to tell me I don't lose any?

 

Nobody here  on this message board realizes the level of effort and sacrifice I put into what I do so don't put words into stuff you don't know or understand anything about 

Ok genius the "you" I was talking about was CHS. Not you personally. CHS has not won a playoff game in more than 15 years that meet the criteria that you said was the strength of your program. In 15 years CHS had one game that did meet the criteria and got their ass sent home. 

 

But this is part for the course with you. I coached in Florida for a good long time. I don't get you at all. CHS is very much at a disadvantage with the current situation in Florida football. You constantly act like anyone who points out that the current system is completely broke is whining. It is not whining to point out that the Fhsaa is so inept that it rises to the level of corruption. 

I love the game and I always try to do what is right for the game. THE GAME IS DYING.  Nobody wants to honestly address the problems. You have a little pulpit to speak from that Josh has provided you and you waste it. 

[DisabledAccount]

23 minutes ago, Phfootball9 said:

Ok genius the "you" I was talking about was CHS. Not you personally. CHS has not won a playoff game in more than 15 years that meet the criteria that you said was the strength of your program. In 15 years CHS had one game that did meet the criteria and got their ass sent home. 

 

But this is part for the course with you. I coached in Florida for a good long time. I don't get you at all. CHS is very much at a disadvantage with the current situation in Florida football. You constantly act like anyone who points out that the current system is completely broke is whining. It is not whining to point out that the Fhsaa is so inept that it rises to the level of corruption. 

I love the game and I always try to do what is right for the game. THE GAME IS DYING.  Nobody wants to honestly address the problems. You have a little pulpit to speak from that Josh has provided you and you waste it. 

LMAO I don't need Joshua in order to get my opinion out there

 

I have my own website and run my own podcast, i have more than enough other avenues to speak on issues, I post here because I enjoy it but listening to people like you really does take the fun out of it because you hide behind your "experience" to be a jerk and bash people who you feel are inferior and irrelevant to you whenever they aren't agreeing with you

 

I haven't forgotten our prior "discussions" so don't pretend that none the posts in this thread are directed at me because you know dang well which posts I'm referring to 

[DisabledAccount]

Maybe if your so sure of your stance maybe you should come on my podcast and see if you can defend your position when you aren't getting several days to make a post 

 

I'll even let you keep your identity private so you don't need to have that built in excuse

 

[181pl]

I'm OK with it.  But the playoff rankings are a joke.We either need large districts with the top two making it or we need to qualify by Region based on your record against that region (top 4).

 

 

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, 181pl said:

I'm OK with it.  But the playoff rankings are a joke.We either need large districts with the top two making it or we need to qualify by Region based on your record against that region (top 4).

 

 

Larger districts means more travel which teams will fight against

 

I wrote up a idea that lead to bigger districts and less travel but would require a change in how they classify 

[181pl]

2 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Larger districts means more travel which teams will fight against

 

I wrote up a idea that lead to bigger districts and less travel but would require a change in how they classify 

Listen, the world doesn't revolve around N. Florida. 90 percent of the teams in the state are within a reasonable distance of say six other similarly sized high schools to make real districts. Adjust. Maybe the FHSAA can kick in some travel stipends if a team has to go over 75 miles. There are ways to get the system correct.

[DisabledAccount]

3 minutes ago, 181pl said:

Listen, the world doesn't revolve around N. Florida. 90 percent of the teams in the state are within a reasonable distance of say six other similarly sized high schools to make real districts. Adjust. Maybe the FHSAA can kick in some travel stipends if a team has to go over 75 miles. There are ways to get the system correct.

Our travel ain't that bad

 

It's those panhandle teams who whine about travel 

[DisabledAccount]

First fix they need is drop a class (or 2)

 

You don't need 8 classifications

 

 

Second change

 

 

You don't need 4 regions in 1-4a

 

2 regions would be better format

 

Hell they can do 8 teams per region so 16 per class which takes playoff teams from 24 to 16 in 1-4a

[Phfootball9]

32 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Our travel ain't that bad

 

It's those panhandle teams who whine about travel 

No we don't all whine about travel out here in the panhandle. We do complain about teams that bring no gate at all. No one out in the panhandle complained about knowing every other year KNOWING the regional final was an overnight trip. I guess I do complain about rpi being used for anything. Any system where a school with 2500+ kids gets more credit for playing a public school with 400 kids than school with 2500 kids is just garbage. I know most of the coaches in the panhandle would like no wildcards win your district to get in. If you have WCs have 7 or 8 team districts and you have to win or be runner-up in your district. You know actually decide it on the field.

I would bet the way teams are classified is a much more important to coaches in the panhandle thàn playoff travel. Hell we have always had to travel.  Over the past decade I have watched schools that supported he football lose interest leading to no gate. Schools have become feeder programs. Players and player agents have been allowed to not be loyal, not to be part of the community and not learn the lessons football used to teach. The current structure is about the individual if the individual was blessed by God. Football is better when it is about team and community, but what do I know?

[DisabledAccount]

2 minutes ago, Phfootball9 said:

No we don't all whine about travel out here in the panhandle. We do complain about teams that bring no gate at all. No one out in the panhandle complained about knowing every other year KNOWING the regional final was an overnight trip. I guess I do complain about rpi being used for anything. Any system where a school with 2500+ kids gets more credit for playing a public school with 400 kids than school with 2500 kids is just garbage. I know most of the coaches in the panhandle would like no wildcards win your district to get in. If you have WCs have 7 or 8 team districts and you have to win or be runner-up in your district. You know actually decide it on the field.

I would bet the way teams are classified is a much more important to coaches in the panhandle thàn playoff travel. Hell we have always had to travel.  Over the past decade I have watched schools that supported he football lose interest leading to no gate. Schools have become feeder programs. Players and player agents have been allowed to not be loyal, not to be part of the community and not learn the lessons football used to teach. The current structure is about the individual if the individual was blessed by God. Football is better when it is about team and community, but what do I know?

Is that why several years back a few of those so called panhandle powerhouses requested to move down to 6a when they were gonna be assigned to a Tallahassee district which left that Tallahassee district as a 3 team district??