Complaints about Playoffs

[gatorman-uf]

Since, we now have gone through Volleyball, Boys and Girls Soccer, and Boys and Girls Basketball... any complaints about how the MaxPrep rankings handled seeding and wildcards? 

 

Heard one today will be of no consequence after Thursday, but a 9-12 boys basketball team made it in as the number #8 seed over despite a losing record, multiple FFL, and losing head to head to another team that had would be the #9 seed. It seems they were able to get in because of the "tough" schedule they played, despite losing all but 1 of their tough games. 

[badbird]

3 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

Since, we now have gone through Volleyball, Boys and Girls Soccer, and Boys and Girls Basketball... any complaints about how the MaxPrep rankings handled seeding and wildcards? 

 

Heard one today will be of no consequence after Thursday, but a 9-12 boys basketball team made it in as the number #8 seed over despite a losing record, multiple FFL, and losing head to head to another team that had would be the #9 seed. It seems they were able to get in because of the "tough" schedule they played, despite losing all but 1 of their tough games. 

The FHSAA is not using maxpreps exactly.  Not sure what they are doing but it is not what maxpreps post but it is close.  I like it.   I'm sure it will miss on a few but seems way better than the RPI football uses.

[badbird]

3 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

Since, we now have gone through Volleyball, Boys and Girls Soccer, and Boys and Girls Basketball... any complaints about how the MaxPrep rankings handled seeding and wildcards? 

 

Heard one today will be of no consequence after Thursday, but a 9-12 boys basketball team made it in as the number #8 seed over despite a losing record, multiple FFL, and losing head to head to another team that had would be the #9 seed. It seems they were able to get in because of the "tough" schedule they played, despite losing all but 1 of their tough games. 

what if they added in that if a team is one spot behind and beat them head to head they jump them.

[gatorman-uf]

One of the Somerset (#8 seed) and Jupiter Christian...

A bigger complaint has to be the #1 seed playing the #5 seed in the second round (the #5 often seems to be a very talented squad and a lot better than the #4) where if it was done based on pure rankings that #5 seed would be a #2 or #3 seed and the #1 seed wouldn't see them to the regional finals...

[badbird]

1 minute ago, gatorman-uf said:

One of the Somerset (#8 seed) and Jupiter Christian...

A bigger complaint has to be the #1 seed playing the #5 seed in the second round (the #5 often seems to be a very talented squad and a lot better than the #4) where if it was done based on pure rankings that #5 seed would be a #2 or #3 seed and the #1 seed wouldn't see them to the regional finals...

what if they added in that if a team is one spot behind and beat them head to head they jump them.

 

I agree the 5 should be pretty good.  Lets see how many 5 seeds win

 

[gatorman-uf]

6 Classifications with wildcards, 4 regions... so 24 #5 seeds, at what percentage of them winning would we have to admit the system should be rethought... or is it only if they get to the regional finals...

[Perspective]

Are the district winners still getting the top 4 seeds within each region?   If so, it wouldn't surprise me one bit that, within each region, the 'best' district runner-up (who ends up with the 5th seed) will be better than the worst district winner (who ends up with the 4th seed). 

That said, I do believe that the four district winners within each region should get the top 4 seeds. 

[gatorman-uf]

2 hours ago, Perspective said:

Are the district winners still getting the top 4 seeds within each region?   If so, it wouldn't surprise me one bit that, within each region, the 'best' district runner-up (who ends up with the 5th seed) will be better than the worst district winner (who ends up with the 4th seed). 

That said, I do believe that the four district winners within each region should get the top 4 seeds. 

I get the reasoning and don't have a real problem with it, the issue that happens is that it is almost better to be a #2 seed than a #1 seed. 

[Perspective]

53 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

I get the reasoning and don't have a real problem with it, the issue that happens is that it is almost better to be a #2 seed than a #1 seed. 

Then, again, in theory, there's a pretty good chance that the #1 seed became the #1 seed, and the #5 seed became the #5 seed, because the #1 seed beat the #5 seed in the regular season to win the district. 

[gatorman-uf]

Right, but if the purpose of seeding is to ensure that the best teams are making the regional finals and the #5 seed is better than the #2 and #3 seed, then the #5 seed shouldn't meet the #1 seed until the finals. Either way, I think the system added a little intrigue, but only because the MaxPreps system is not as transparent as the RPI system.

 

[Perspective]

30 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Right, but if the purpose of seeding is to ensure that the best teams are making the regional finals and the #5 seed is better than the #2 and #3 seed, then the #5 seed shouldn't meet the #1 seed until the finals. Either way, I think the system added a little intrigue, but only because the MaxPreps system is not as transparent as the RPI system.

 

I understand your point.   From my perspective, it just shows the fallacy of trying to determine who the "best" teams are before the playoff games have been played.    Again, I see your point, but I'd have a tough time seeding a district runner-up over all the district winners except for one and giving a district runner-up the home-field advantage over all the district winners except for one.  Winning a district ought to count for something and penalizing a district winner (with a lower RPI and, therefor, a seeding worse than a district runner-up) because the other teams in its district had a bad year just doesn't sit right with me. 

[DisabledAccount]

10 hours ago, Perspective said:

I understand your point.   From my perspective, it just shows the fallacy of trying to determine who the "best" teams are before the playoff games have been played.    Again, I see your point, but I'd have a tough time seeding a district runner-up over all the district winners except for one and giving a district runner-up the home-field advantage over all the district winners except for one.  Winning a district ought to count for something and penalizing a district winner (with a lower RPI and, therefor, a seeding worse than a district runner-up) because the other teams in its district had a bad year just doesn't sit right with me. 

And many coaches and AD's have the same feeling and that's why when it was offered last cycle to remove the district champs getting top 4 guaranteed they fought it

 

But if you feel that way you can't them turn around and say the fhsaa isn't ensuring the best matchups are taking place if you also want the district champs to be guaranteed a top 4 seed, just the reality of it (yes I know you didn't say that specifically yourself, I'm just pointing out the flaw in the line of thinking when people out there try to play both ends of the fence)

 

Just like many of us knew when the Miami district of death was around that Miami Central, Miami Northwestern and Carol City were the best 3 teams in the entire region but only one would have a seed in the top 4

[Perspective]

There is no perfect system.  But, as you point out, I've never been one of those who says the whole playoff system should be geared up in hopes of have the two "best" teams in each region playing in each of the four regional finals.   There are just way too many factors to make that determination and way too many things happen along the road to a regional final game (upsets being just one of those things). 

How many times do the top 2 seeds in a tennis tournament end up matched up against each other in the finals?

How often do you see four # 1 seeds make the NCAA Final Four in basketball or hockey? 

How often do you see the #1 seed in the AFC and the #1 seed in the NFC square off in the Super Bowl?

More often than not, the cream ultimately rises to the top, but I just don't think it's worth the effort in high school football. 

[gatorman-uf]

Boys Basketball
Round 1
#1 - 24/24
#2 - 19/24
#3 - 19/24
#4 - 7/24
#5 - 17/24
#6 - 5/24
#7 - 5/24
#8 - 0/24

This is kinda what some of us were talking about, no way a #5 should win so consistently over a #4 seed.

[nolebull813]

They need to throw the FHSAA in the trash and start brand new. When they crank back up, we have 5 classes for football. There is about 500 schools playing in the FHSAA. Give or take some. So 100 in each class. The 100 smallest enrollments are 1A and so on. Public and private mixed. 
 

100 teams divided into 16 districts would be 6.25 teams per district. Basically anywhere between 5 and 7. Those are not huge districts. It’s an average, normal size. (That’s what she said. Lol)

Champs and runners up make the playoffs. 32 teams per class, 5 games to win the title. 
 

What’s the issue? If you say some crappy public 1A team with 200 in enrollment playing against a private with 700 in enrollment has no shot, so what??? Do they have a shot now? Can they beat Madison County? Hell no! So what’s the difference?

[DisabledAccount]

5 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

They need to throw the FHSAA in the trash and start brand new. When they crank back up, we have 5 classes for football. There is about 500 schools playing in the FHSAA. Give or take some. So 100 in each class. The 100 smallest enrollments are 1A and so on. Public and private mixed. 
 

100 teams divided into 16 districts would be 6.25 teams per district. Basically anywhere between 5 and 7. Those are not huge districts. It’s an average, normal size. (That’s what she said. Lol)

Champs and runners up make the playoffs. 32 teams per class, 5 games to win the title. 
 

What’s the issue? If you say some crappy public 1A team with 200 in enrollment playing against a private with 700 in enrollment has no shot, so what??? Do they have a shot now? Can they beat Madison County? Hell no! So what’s the difference?

I trust the FHSAA more than I trust some the AD's and coaches in this state 

 

The schools are only gonna look out for themselves and push for any change they feel they can exploit so they can pretend they are a great program, there needs to be a neutral party involved in the decision making process

[DisabledAccount]

On 2/22/2020 at 11:29 PM, gatorman-uf said:

Boys Basketball
Round 1
#1 - 24/24
#2 - 19/24
#3 - 19/24
#4 - 7/24
#5 - 17/24
#6 - 5/24
#7 - 5/24
#8 - 0/24

This is kinda what some of us were talking about, no way a #5 should win so consistently over a #4 seed.

Are the numbers similar for other sports this year?