Coaches suspended in Manatee County

[fishspinners]

Manatee, Lakewood Ranch, and Palmetto high school football head coaches have been suspended between 6 and 8 games for this upcoming season. Per reports by bradenton.com for recruiting violations.

[Perspective]

From what I've heard, someone bused a group of middle school kids (approximately 30 or so kids, mostly 8th graders) around to three different area high schools, where each coach/school got to do their own dog and pony, rah, rah session with the kids 'suggesting' why the kids would be best suited attending that particular high school (now that kids can pretty much pick whatever school they want to go to -- assuming available capacity).   Videos were taken and ultimately posted.   Some of the coaches were a little more aggressive than others, but apparently all three of them crossed well over the line. 

In short, it was like a college on-campus visit, without the kids being able to put on the jersey or uniform of the host school for the obligatory photo opp.  

Six to eight game suspension for each coach, along with a $5K fine.   Coaches can be involved in practices, but not games.   I can see where someone can make the argument that the punishment is too severe, but there doesn't seem to be much room for argument as to whether a violation occurred.   Convince me I'm wrong. 

[OldSchoolLion]

...as long as there weren't any illicit exchanges of hand sanitizer.

[Perspective]

14 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...as long as there weren't any illicit exchanges of hand sanitizer.

Welcome to the Internet.   As a result of your post, guess what appears between the first and second post of this thread (at least on my computer)?  Yep, you guessed it:  an ad for hand sanitizer.  

Hmmm, I wonder if I can change the algorithm?    Beach.   Bikinis.  Beach.   Bikinis.   

[skyway]

Let me try it:

 Donuts Donuts

[skyway]

Anyway, what's seen in the videos is no different than what you'd get with any middle school principal talking to elementary students in totally normal circumstances. So, apparently, what was said off-camera is drastically different.

[Perspective]

22 minutes ago, skyway said:

Let me try it:

 Donuts  Donuts

Now it's an ad for "The Simpsons." 

[Perspective]

13 minutes ago, skyway said:

Anyway, what's seen in the videos is no different than what you'd get with any middle school principal talking to elementary students in totally normal circumstances. So, apparently, what was said off-camera is drastically different.

That seemed to be the sentiment of the county athletic director:   

“It was stupid and it was on video,” Manatee County athletics director Jason Montgomery said. “It was pretty cut and dry. It was pretty blatant.”   (per the Herald-Tribune online article)

According to the online version of the Bradenton Herald:

• Manatee High head coach Yusuf Shakir was suspended for eight games, including the 2020 spring game and fall classic, and must forfeit $5,000 of his salary. He was also reprimanded and placed on administrative probation through June 30, 2021. The report states, Shakir “presented urging, enticing or pressuring statements/acts (approximately 20) to the Lincoln Academy students during a scheduled athletic tour of the school’s football facilities.”
• Dennis Stallard, the longtime special teams coach at Manatee High, was suspended for six games and must forfeit $5,000 for making approximately four “urging, enticing or pressuring statements/acts,” to the Lincoln students.
• Palmetto High head coach Dave Marino was hit with the same penalties as Shakir for the same action. The school was fined $2,500 because no assistant coaches were found in violation.
• Lakewood Ranch head coach Rashad West was suspended for six games, including four regular-season games, with the same monetary penalty as Shakir and Marino. According to the FHSAA report, “West scheduled and conducted an athletic tour to the Lincoln Academy students.” Lakewood Ranch High was placed on probation and fined $2,500.

From my perspective, the FHSAA wanted to send out a message loud and clear that they don't like the idea of middle school kids being bused around to a bunch of high schools, like high school players on a college bus tour, so the high school coaches could deliver a recruiting sales pitch.  So they drew a line in the sand. 

Read more here: https://www.bradenton.com/sports/article241800461.html#storylink=cpy

[badbird]

Who set this tour up?  Seems like someone would have been smart enough to realize this was a violation and canceled the tour before it happened.  

 

Penalty seems pretty harsh. Obviously all 3 schools were involved. They each had an equal chance to land the middle school kids. 

 

Wonder who turned them in? Maybe Southeast, seems like they were the only local school not involved.

[OldSchoolLion]

12 hours ago, Perspective said:

Welcome to the Internet.   As a result of your post, guess what appears between the first and second post of this thread (at least on my computer)?  Yep, you guessed it:  an ad for hand sanitizer.  

Hmmm, I wonder if I can change the algorithm?    Beach.   Bikinis.  Beach.   Bikinis.   

Maybe that's why whenever I mention a certain team's name on here I get an ad for runner-up trophies.

[Captain Morgan]

Should they suspend the band director that’s tells the kids how many competitions they have won and how great their shows are? This is a joke, everyone knew the kids were in campus and they were touring the football facilities. What did they think would happen? SMH The FHSAA is the worst when it comes to consistency. Selective enforcement 

[badbird]

28 minutes ago, Captain Morgan said:

Should they suspend the band director that’s tells the kids how many competitions they have won and how great their shows are? This is a joke, everyone knew the kids were in campus and they were touring the football facilities. What did they think would happen? SMH The FHSAA is the worst when it comes to consistency. Selective enforcement 

Sad thing is the people that are really out there recruiting don't get caught.  This seems to me like a poor decision by the schools.  Did these kids only visit the school for football?  

[skyway]

I can tell you that, in California (and I assume Florida) public middle school principals visit, and welcome visitors from, elementary schools and give similar talks aimed at persuading the kids to attend their school. There are of course no sports involved at these levels. I don't think anyone sees anything wrong with it. They are now competing with charter schools (and privates) for kids. Like I said, nothing I saw in the two videos shared at bradenton.com seem inappropriate to me. The inappropriate remarks would have had to have not been made during the videos. I don't see how anyone could be the least bit supportive of any sort of school choice model and then get upset at schools for trying to sell themselves. 

[Guest]

On 4/7/2020 at 11:40 PM, skyway said:

I can tell you that, in California (and I assume Florida) public middle school principals visit, and welcome visitors from, elementary schools and give similar talks aimed at persuading the kids to attend their school. There are of course no sports involved at these levels. I don't think anyone sees anything wrong with it. They are now competing with charter schools (and privates) for kids. Like I said, nothing I saw in the two videos shared at bradenton.com seem inappropriate to me. The inappropriate remarks would have had to have not been made during the videos. I don't see how anyone could be the least bit supportive of any sort of school choice model and then get upset at schools for trying to sell themselves. 

Nailed It!

[Perspective]

Here's the problem:  the FHSAA is left with a set of rules (or, at a minimum, the remnants of a set of rules) that were crafted well before the legislative changes went into effect -- the legislative changes that essentially allow any kid to go to whatever school he or she wants.   In other words, the legislature is the group that supports school choice and the FHSAA is the one enforcing old rules designed to prevent schools from selling themselves (because it looks too much like targeted recruiting).   It would be like if the legislature passed a law that said people could go whatever speed they wanted to on the highways, but the cops didn't think that was the right approach, so they started giving out tickets to people who were speeding, but just callied them 'reckless driving citations.' 

[Jambun82]

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 10:31 AM, Perspective said:

Here's the problem:  the FHSAA is left with a set of rules (or, at a minimum, the remnants of a set of rules) that were crafted well before the legislative changes went into effect -- the legislative changes that essentially allow any kid to go to whatever school he or she wants.   In other words, the legislature is the group that supports school choice and the FHSAA is the one enforcing old rules designed to prevent schools from selling themselves (because it looks too much like targeted recruiting).   It would be like if the legislature passed a law that said people could go whatever speed they wanted to on the highways, but the cops didn't think that was the right approach, so they started giving out tickets to people who were speeding, but just callied them 'reckless driving citations.' 

The Legislature writes and makes the laws, and it is the duty and responsibility of the FHSAA, and the police to honor and enforce the laws. Not how they feel or think the law should be, but what the law is. The FHSAA and the police answer to the Legislature, and the Legislature answers to the voters, and the taxpayers.

[Perspective]

13 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

The Legislature writes and makes the laws, and it is the duty and responsibility of the FHSAA, and the police to honor and enforce the laws. Not how they feel or think the law should be, but what the law is. The FHSAA and the police answer to the Legislature, and the Legislature answers to the voters, and the taxpayers.

Agreed.  Perfectly solid Civics 101 analysis (although interpretation of laws is not always an easy task).   I was trying to address the reality of the situation.   In short, the rule has always been "kids stay within their district and no recruiting is allowed."  This was the framework under which the FHSAA has operated for years, if not decades.  The legislature changed the first part, but essentially stayed quiet on the second part (meaning the FHSAA rules against recruiting stayed in place).  So, now the FHSAA has to operate under a framework in which kids have school choice, but recruiting is still not allowed.   In my view, this has created a little tension and has taken a few arrows out of the FHSAA's enforcement quiver.   To a certain extent, they're trying to remain relevant, which may mean that they come down harder in the one area that they still have authority. 

[Jambun82]

11 hours ago, Perspective said:

Agreed.  Perfectly solid Civics 101 analysis (although interpretation of laws is not always an easy task).   I was trying to address the reality of the situation.   In short, the rule has always been "kids stay within their district and no recruiting is allowed."  This was the framework under which the FHSAA has operated for years, if not decades.  The legislature changed the first part, but essentially stayed quiet on the second part (meaning the FHSAA rules against recruiting stayed in place).  So, now the FHSAA has to operate under a framework in which kids have school choice, but recruiting is still not allowed.   In my view, this has created a little tension and has taken a few arrows out of the FHSAA's enforcement quiver.   To a certain extent, they're trying to remain relevant, which may mean that they come down harder in the one area that they still have authority. 

I agree with your view Perspective.

[badbird]

11 hours ago, Perspective said:

  To a certain extent, they're trying to remain relevant, which may mean that they come down harder in the one area that they still have authority. 

You are correct they have come down a lot harder on things the past few years.  Punishments don't fit the crime.  I agree they are trying to remain relevant

[Jambun82]

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 6:02 PM, badbird said:

You are correct they have come down a lot harder on things the past few years.  Punishments don't fit the crime.  I agree they are trying to remain relevant

I would also state that the punishment doesn't fit the crime in this case. Unlike when a Head Coach runs onto the field of play to threaten an official, or goes above and beyond to disrespect officials. In those cases, the punishment DOES fit the "crime." Those kind of suspensions are justified.  

[Guest]

On 4/13/2020 at 9:02 PM, badbird said:

You are correct they have come down a lot harder on things the past few years.  Punishments don't fit the crime.  I agree they are trying to remain relevant

 

2 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

I would also state that the punishment doesn't fit the crime in this case. Unlike when a Head Coach runs onto the field of play to threaten an official, or goes above and beyond to disrespect officials. In those cases, the punishment DOES fit the "crime." Those kind of suspensions are justified.  

Ready....FIGHT!

[badbird]

12 hours ago, Just A Coach said:

 

Ready....FIGHT!

lol Don't say a curse word to a referee those guys are too big of pussies and can't handle it.  

 

Let me say this if a coach threatens a referee he should never coach again.  If a coach is pissed at a call and says a few choice words he should not get a 6 game suspension, however he should be punished.  If you think a 6 game suspension fits the crime for cursing then you are a bitch and need to get some thicker skin.

[Jambun82]

8 hours ago, badbird said:

lol Don't say a curse word to a referee those guys are too big of pussies and can't handle it.  

 

Let me say this if a coach threatens a referee he should never coach again.  If a coach is pissed at a call and says a few choice words he should not get a 6 game suspension, however he should be punished.  If you think a 6 game suspension fits the crime for cursing then you are a bitch and need to get some thicker skin.

Lol, it is good to hear from you Badbird. I hope that you and your family are staying safe.

[badbird]

11 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Lol, it is good to hear from you Badbird. I hope that you and your family are staying safe.

My family is doing good.  Central Florida lost a great man yesterday in Ernest Swift.  He was the head coach at Jones from the early 80's to mid 90's.  

Staying inside is getting boring.  I need to get out so I can yell at some officials.    Speaking of officials Chuck Baumann is one of the best in Central Florida.  Do you know him?

 

[skyway]

On 4/11/2020 at 10:31 AM, Perspective said:

Here's the problem:  the FHSAA is left with a set of rules (or, at a minimum, the remnants of a set of rules) that were crafted well before the legislative changes went into effect -- the legislative changes that essentially allow any kid to go to whatever school he or she wants.   In other words, the legislature is the group that supports school choice and the FHSAA is the one enforcing old rules designed to prevent schools from selling themselves (because it looks too much like targeted recruiting).   It would be like if the legislature passed a law that said people could go whatever speed they wanted to on the highways, but the cops didn't think that was the right approach, so they started giving out tickets to people who were speeding, but just callied them 'reckless driving citations.' 

It is incumbent upon the FHSAA (and, I suppose, the angry fans) to align themselves with the legislature. 

Now, there ARE very compelling arguments against allowing such school choice (and that's even with setting aside the fact that "school choice is typically used as code for "let's get taxpayer dollars and students to private, Christian schools, which is unconstitutional). But, those arguments need to be shared more widely with voters, with a campaign of sorts to inform/persuade voters to demand a change in legislation.