Coaches suspended in Manatee County

[Jambun82]

20 hours ago, badbird said:

My family is doing good.  Central Florida lost a great man yesterday in Ernest Swift.  He was the head coach at Jones from the early 80's to mid 90's.  

Staying inside is getting boring.  I need to get out so I can yell at some officials.    Speaking of officials Chuck Baumann is one of the best in Central Florida.  Do you know him?

 

I might know Chuck Baumann if I saw him. I get to know many different people by face without knowing their full names.

[Jambun82]

8 hours ago, skyway said:

It is incumbent upon the FHSAA (and, I suppose, the angry fans) to align themselves with the legislature. 

Now, there ARE very compelling arguments against allowing such school choice (and that's even with setting aside the fact that "school choice is typically used as code for "let's get taxpayer dollars and students to private, Christian schools, which is unconstitutional). But, those arguments need to be shared more widely with voters, with a campaign of sorts to inform/persuade voters to demand a change in legislation.

There are plenty of compelling arguments for school choice as well. Not everybody loves and approves of public schools, please try to understand that point.

[skyway]

3 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

There are plenty of compelling arguments for school choice as well. Not everybody loves and approves of public schools, please try to understand that point.

Taxpayer $ should only go to schools adhering to the same standards, rules etc. If a school wants to forego taxpayer $ and do their own thing, so be it. Though they should be accredited based on reasonable and objective standards.

[Jambun82]

21 hours ago, skyway said:

Taxpayer $ should only go to schools adhering to the same standards, rules etc. If a school wants to forego taxpayer $ and do their own thing, so be it. Though they should be accredited based on reasonable and objective standards.

It is my right to NOT have my child attend a public school, even though I pay plenty in Education taxes, whether you like it or not.

[skyway]

1 hour ago, Jambun82 said:

It is my right to NOT have my child attend a public school, even though I pay plenty in Education taxes, whether you like it or not.

Sure.

It is NOT the right of the private, Christian school (which figures to discriminate against anyone not adhering to Christian doctrine) to claim taxpayer dollars. And no amount of lying by right wing lobbyists should change that.

[Jambun82]

21 hours ago, skyway said:

Sure.

It is NOT the right of the private, Christian school (which figures to discriminate against anyone not adhering to Christian doctrine) to claim taxpayer dollars. And no amount of lying by right wing lobbyists should change that.

It is also NOT the right of public school taxpayer-funded teacher' unions to make decisions for parents about where the children attend schools. No matter how much money the teachers unions give to the Democratic Party. ALL public servants, who collect a taxpayer-funded check, answer to the taxpayers or be held accountable.

[skyway]

14 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

It is also NOT the right of public school taxpayer-funded teacher' unions to make decisions for parents about where the children attend schools. No matter how much money the teachers unions give to the Democratic Party. ALL public servants, who collect a taxpayer-funded check, answer to the taxpayers or be held accountable.

There's a lot of partisan political b.s. here. You could just type out "Goooo GOP, booo Democrats". Would carry the same degree of intellect and nuance in far fewer words.

No teacher's union has ever kept a kid from attending a private school.

[Jambun82]

8 hours ago, skyway said:

There's a lot of partisan political b.s. here. You could just type out "Goooo GOP, booo Democrats". Would carry the same degree of intellect and nuance in far fewer words.

No teacher's union has ever kept a kid from attending a private school.

Thank goodness that the Governor, and the Legislature understand the choice extends beyond a women's body (which I support a women's right to choose). If I type that, how about you type "Goooo Democrats booo GOP" so we are even.

[skyway]

5 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Thank goodness that the Governor, and the Legislature understand the choice extends beyond a women's body (which I support a women's right to choose). If I type that, how about you type "Goooo Democrats booo GOP" so we are even.

Because, if I typed what you asked me to type, I'd be lying. I hate, with every fiber of my body, EVERY last bit of partisan politics. Partisan politics is THE single greatest existential threat we face. Because, every other threat anyone is quick to suggest is a bigger threat is unable to be adequately addressed as long as decisions and stances are taken according to partisan affiliations. 

[Proseteye]

On 4/17/2020 at 11:32 PM, skyway said:

Sure.

It is NOT the right of the private, Christian school (which figures to discriminate against anyone not adhering to Christian doctrine) to claim taxpayer dollars. And no amount of lying by right wing lobbyists should change that.

Just as public schools have the right to be secular private schools have the right to be Christian, Jewish, Catholic, or any other religious denomination they choose. Private schools do not discriminate. Any student, religious or not, is able to attend a private parochial school as long as they have the money and meet their academic requirements. Many private schools also do not adhere to any religious edicts. Whether you know it or not the majority of American citizens proclaim to be of a religious faith. Also, if all of the private schools in this country were to shut down they would have to build thousands more schools and hire hundreds of thousands more teachers just to accommodate that many more students. Talk about taxes increasing 10 fold to pay for it. Be careful what you wish for.

[skyway]

12 hours ago, Proseteye said:

Just as public schools have the right to be secular private schools have the right to be Christian, Jewish, Catholic, or any other religious denomination they choose. 1. Private schools do not discriminate. Any student, religious or not, is able to attend a private parochial school as long as they have the money and meet their academic requirements. Many private schools also do not adhere to any religious edicts.2. Whether you know it or not the majority of American citizens proclaim to be of a religious faith. 3. Also, if all of the private schools in this country were to shut down they would have to build thousands more schools and hire hundreds of thousands more teachers just to accommodate that many more students. Talk about taxes increasing 10 fold to pay for it. Be careful what you wish for.

1. This is simply not true, not for all private schools, anyway. SOME private schools do not discriminate; some most certainly do.

2. That does not mean such people should be given preferential treatment. The very purpose of the establishment clause of the 1st amendment is to protect minority (or no) faiths.

3. What? Who said anything about shutting down private schools?

[Jambun82]

19 hours ago, skyway said:

Because, if I typed what you asked me to type, I'd be lying. I hate, with every fiber of my body, EVERY last bit of partisan politics. Partisan politics is THE single greatest existential threat we face. Because, every other threat anyone is quick to suggest is a bigger threat is unable to be adequately addressed as long as decisions and stances are taken according to partisan affiliations. 

You claim to hate partisan politics, but you espouse Democratic Party positions constantly, and talk about "right-wingers" like they are the Chinese virus. Convenient.  

[Jambun82]

13 hours ago, Proseteye said:

Just as public schools have the right to be secular private schools have the right to be Christian, Jewish, Catholic, or any other religious denomination they choose. Private schools do not discriminate. Any student, religious or not, is able to attend a private parochial school as long as they have the money and meet their academic requirements. Many private schools also do not adhere to any religious edicts. Whether you know it or not the majority of American citizens proclaim to be of a religious faith. Also, if all of the private schools in this country were to shut down they would have to build thousands more schools and hire hundreds of thousands more teachers just to accommodate that many more students. Talk about taxes increasing 10 fold to pay for it. Be careful what you wish for.

Proseteye, I am not sure that is worth even discussing your well-reasoned point-of-view with the man. I am sure that he is all for  "Secular Public Schools" and he would come and protest when the Volusia County Public Schools introduced a History Textbook with 35 pages about Islam. I am sure that he would have a problem with that as well, or would he? I hope that you and your family are staying safe Proseteye.

[Proseteye]

On 4/20/2020 at 9:58 PM, Jambun82 said:

Proseteye, I am not sure that is worth even discussing your well-reasoned point-of-view with the man. I am sure that he is all for  "Secular Public Schools" and he would come and protest when the Volusia County Public Schools introduced a History Textbook with 35 pages about Islam. I am sure that he would have a problem with that as well, or would he? I hope that you and your family are staying safe Proseteye.

Thanks Jambun. Always appreciate your views on topics. Skyway has his opinions just like anybody. I don't agree with them but he does have a right to them. I usually like to produce facts which most of the time saves the day.

[skyway]

On 4/20/2020 at 6:58 PM, Jambun82 said:

Proseteye, I am not sure that is worth even discussing your well-reasoned point-of-view with the man. I am sure that he is all for  "Secular Public Schools" and he would come and protest when the Volusia County Public Schools introduced a History Textbook with 35 pages about Islam. I am sure that he would have a problem with that as well, or would he? I hope that you and your family are staying safe Proseteye.

I haven't seen the textbook. But, if it's a book covering the history of the world, Islam has a decidedly significant place in the book. As does Christianity, of course. 

Where the line has to be drawn is in determining if what's being covered amounts to proselytizing or not. You can't tell the history of the world without spending considerable time on Christianity and Islam. But, if students are asked to memorize scripture or something of the kind, that's where the ACLU or Freedom From Religion Foundation would need to get involved.

[Proseteye]

On 4/23/2020 at 12:55 AM, skyway said:

I haven't seen the textbook. But, if it's a book covering the history of the world, Islam has a decidedly significant place in the book. As does Christianity, of course. 

Where the line has to be drawn is in determining if what's being covered amounts to proselytizing or not. You can't tell the history of the world without spending considerable time on Christianity and Islam. But, if students are asked to memorize scripture or something of the kind, that's where the ACLU or Freedom From Religion Foundation would need to get involved.

Almost every other religion is much older than Islam. In fact Islam is one of the newest religions having been introduce about the year 1300. So, tell me, why should Islam be taught in any American school when religions like Buddhism, Hindu, Judahism, Confucianism and actually Christianity are not taught. There are so many people that practice these other religions in the US while very few practice Islam in the US. This nation was founded on Judao/Christian principles. Islam had no part in the founding of or enhancement of this country. The only reason that Islam is well known is due to the terrorist activity it foments.

[Jambun82]

11 hours ago, Proseteye said:

Almost every other religion is much older than Islam. In fact Islam is one of the newest religions having been introduce about the year 1300. So, tell me, why should Islam be taught in any American school when religions like Buddhism, Hindu, Judahism, Confucianism and actually Christianity are not taught. There are so many people that practice these other religions in the US while very few practice Islam in the US. This nation was founded on Judao/Christian principles. Islam had no part in the founding of or enhancement of this country. The only reason that Islam is well known is due to the terrorist activity it foments.

Another great point Proseteye.

[skyway]

15 hours ago, Proseteye said:

Almost every other religion is much older than Islam. In fact Islam is one of the newest religions having been introduce about the year 1300. So, tell me, why should Islam be taught in any American school when religions like Buddhism, Hindu, Judahism, Confucianism and actually Christianity are not taught. There are so many people that practice these other religions in the US while very few practice Islam in the US. This nation was founded on Judao/Christian principles. Islam had no part in the founding of or enhancement of this country. The only reason that Islam is well known is due to the terrorist activity it foments.

NONE of the religions should be taught, assuming "taught" means the kids learn scripture and the like. ALL of the relevant religions deserve a place in the textbooks covering the history of the world. A textbook restricted to the history of THIS COUNTRY shouldn't spend much time on Islam; a textbook covering the history of THE WORLD should devote a robust section to it.

This is why you religious nuts deserve derision. You refuse to offer an honest critique of things you disagree with. You feel compelled to lie about what others are saying/demanding, creating a straw man (indeed, a lie) from which you will assume it justified to be nasty to whomever you're debating. Ask yourself this: What point is there in claiming to be a good Christian if you end up lying about everything?

[OldSchoolLion]

Wasn't this supposed to be a post about coaches in Manatee County?  Just like politics, debates about religion can be very charged and I would suggest we debate those things elsewhere.  This forum is a refuge for some us to escape that stuff.

[Jambun82]

16 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Wasn't this supposed to be a post about coaches in Manatee County?  Just like politics, debates about religion can be very charged and I would suggest we debate those things elsewhere.  This forum is a refuge for some us to escape that stuff.

OldSchoolLion, I feel that you might be right. To go along with your point though, I think that the anti-school choice diatribes need to be curtailed on this message board as well.  

[Cjm04]

Funny, I teach Cultural Geography and ALL of those religions are in the curriculum.  But what do I know.

[skyway]

1 hour ago, Cjm04 said:

Funny, I teach Cultural Geography and ALL of those religions are in the curriculum.  But what do I know.

We live in an era where outright lying is a "winning" approach to political arguments. And, no group has mastered the art better than the religious right. And they've thoroughly convinced their supporters of these lies. Most of them probably think kids aren't allowed to pray in school, for example.

To continue as a successful society, we'll have to stop this crap. Quit lying and misrepresenting others' arguments.

[Jambun82]

13 hours ago, Cjm04 said:

Funny, I teach Cultural Geography and ALL of those religions are in the curriculum.  But what do I know.

Cjm04, does the textbook that you use for the class teach 35 pages on Islam with NO other religions emphasized? That is what the proposed textbook in Volusia contained. Does every other County and class teach the exact same thing that you teach?

[Jambun82]

12 hours ago, skyway said:

We live in an era where outright lying is a "winning" approach to political arguments. And, no group has mastered the art better than the religious right. And they've thoroughly convinced their supporters of these lies. Most of them probably think kids aren't allowed to pray in school, for example.

To continue as a successful society, we'll have to stop this crap. Quit lying and misrepresenting others' arguments.

This is EXACTLY the point-of-view why I thank goodness for school choice. We don't have to put up with this kind of crap and hatred from the public school system, and the teacher' unions. (Even though I pay these people's salaries through my taxes.)

[skyway]

On 4/26/2020 at 7:36 PM, Jambun82 said:

Cjm04, does the textbook that you use for the class teach 35 pages on Islam with NO other religions emphasized? That is what the proposed textbook in Volusia contained. Does every other County and class teach the exact same thing that you teach?

How about sharing with us this textbook in question. Let's have a look at it. 

(I know, I know. You're not gong to share the textbook. Because, then we'd be able to know exactly what is in it, and that's no good for perpetuating lies.)