2020 Schedules

[Perspective]

I had a thought.  Yeah, I know it doesn't happen very often, but when it does, I feel compelled to write it down fast before it slips away. 

We've got a month before football practice can begin.  Perhaps I should rephrase that to say we have "at least a month" before football starts up.  Presumably, the FHSAA is hard at work trying to come up with plans and proposals for how football season (as well as the other fall sports) will work this year, whether there will be a state series for football this year or not, the minimum number of games a team must play in order to qualify for the state series, etc.   Right now, we really don't know for sure when the first week of games will take place.  All we know for sure is that it will take place after regular season games were originally scheduled to be played.  In other words, with a August 24 start date, the first couple of games on every team's schedule essentially already has been canceled. 

There's also a chance that the start date could get pushed back again.  This is where my thought comes into play.   Once the FHSAA has figured out if there will be a state series and when that state series will begin, they will know the date of the final regular season game.  They should direct all schools to then work backwards from that date to fill in all of their district games on a revised schedule.  If there are five teams in the district, the team should work back and fill in district games in the final four weeks of their season.  If there are six teams, work back five weeks.  Four teams, work back three.  Etc. 

The (rather obvious) thought behind this plan is simple:  if the start date gets pushed back again, at least all (or most all, in the case of a really big district) of the district games will still be on the calendar and it won't be necessary to juggle more games and revise the schedules once again. 

I know we might run into problems if teams/counties opt out of the FHSAA and/or state series this year and, therefore, do not want to play a district game.  That's OK.  In short, a team's district should be comprised of those teams originally in the district who want to compete in the state series.  And, at the end of the day (or, in this case, as of the last day of the regular season), there should be a whole bunch of district champions that can compete in the state series -- with or without any additional teams. 

Just a thought.   Does anyone see any problems or issues with this approach?

 

[DisabledAccount]

12 minutes ago, Perspective said:

I had a thought.  Yeah, I know it doesn't happen very often, but when it does, I feel compelled to write it down fast before it slips away. 

We've got a month before football practice can begin.  Perhaps I should rephrase that to say we have "at least a month" before football starts up.  Presumably, the FHSAA is hard at work trying to come up with plans and proposals for how football season (as well as the other fall sports) will work this year, whether there will be a state series for football this year or not, the minimum number of games a team must play in order to qualify for the state series, etc.   Right now, we really don't know for sure when the first week of games will take place.  All we know for sure is that it will take place after regular season games were originally scheduled to be played.  In other words, with a August 24 start date, the first couple of games on every team's schedule essentially already has been canceled. 

There's also a chance that the start date could get pushed back again.  This is where my thought comes into play.   Once the FHSAA has figured out if there will be a state series and when that state series will begin, they will know the date of the final regular season game.  They should direct all schools to then work backwards from that date to fill in all of their district games on a revised schedule.  If there are five teams in the district, the team should work back and fill in district games in the final four weeks of their season.  If there are six teams, work back five weeks.  Four teams, work back three.  Etc. 

The (rather obvious) thought behind this plan is simple:  if the start date gets pushed back again, at least all (or most all, in the case of a really big district) of the district games will still be on the calendar and it won't be necessary to juggle more games and revise the schedules once again. 

I know we might run into problems if teams/counties opt out of the FHSAA and/or state series this year and, therefore, do not want to play a district game.  That's OK.  In short, a team's district should be comprised of those teams originally in the district who want to compete in the state series.  And, at the end of the day (or, in this case, as of the last day of the regular season), there should be a whole bunch of district champions that can compete in the state series -- with or without any additional teams. 

Just a thought.   Does anyone see any problems or issues with this approach?

 

Honestly I think the simplest approach here is the right one but the FHSAA don't want to make the call yet and that's cancel the state series 

 

They are delaying the inevitable but if they cancel the state series than you no longer need to wait for everyone to start at the same time as you just play who can go on August 24th start date (early September game start) and everyone can join in as they able to 

 

 

4-8a don't even have a Championship site and idk any city who gonna place a bid at this point to host so just shut down postseason for the year and whatever teams can play go ahead and try to work with everyone who needs more time and maybe even allow counties to play a few games into 2021 if they can't get a certain amount in the fall so at least their kids can have a few games their senior year 

[Perspective]

17 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

4-8a don't even have a Championship site and idk any city who gonna place a bid at this point to host so just shut down postseason for the year and whatever teams can play go ahead and try to work with everyone who needs more time and maybe even allow counties to play a few games into 2021 if they can't get a certain amount in the fall so at least their kids can have a few games their senior year 

Yeah, I've thought about this too.  For small class schools, the answer is going to depend on whether the FHSAA can get out of their contract with Gene Cox (simple solution:  cancel this year and push the contract back an additional year).

For the larger classes, my suggestion is simple:  for this year (and this year only), let the top seeds in each class host, but a portion of the gate has to be used to offset reasonable travel expenses of visiting teams. 

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, Perspective said:

Yeah, I've thought about this too.  For small class schools, the answer is going to depend on whether the FHSAA can get out of their contract with Gene Cox (simple solution:  cancel this year and push the contract back an additional year).

For the larger classes, my suggestion is simple:  for this year (and this year only), let the top seeds in each class host, but a portion of the gate has to be used to offset reasonable travel expenses of visiting teams. 

Is having a state championship even realistic this year though

 

Dade, Broward and Palm Beach (as well as other metros like Hillsborough, Orange and Duval) have been getting worse every day, no guarantee they even ready to go at all this year so is it really worth the effort if no metro can go for a state championship and would winning a Championship with every good team not Playing mean anything to the teams

 

If we aren't playing a SFL team in the finals than winning state in football means nothing to me because ik we wouldn't have done anything to earn it (our head coach also said this recently)

 

 

 

Much easier IMO to do as you said with getting out of the gene Cox contract for this year and just not having a state championship

[skyway]

True leaders need to step up to work together and develop plans to have some semblance of a season...assuming Covid conditions remain largely what they are now. Such plans will be quite complicated and/or different from anything else we've seen in our lifetimes. Do we have any reason to believe such plans are being developed? It appears to me that FHSAA leadership simply wants to remain in denial and delay the inevitable. Delaying the season, for any reason other than to develop said plans and bring all participants on board with these new plans, for anything less than six months does zero good. Six months is the bare minimum amount of time we can expect to be needed to have a vaccine approved and available to enough people to change current conditions. Truthfully, six YEARS may not be enough to produce an approved, readily available vaccine. What do we do in that case?

[Perspective]

27 minutes ago, skyway said:

True leaders need to step up to work together and develop plans to have some semblance of a season...assuming Covid conditions remain largely what they are now. Such plans will be quite complicated and/or different from anything else we've seen in our lifetimes. Do we have any reason to believe such plans are being developed? It appears to me that FHSAA leadership simply wants to remain in denial and delay the inevitable. Delaying the season, for any reason other than to develop said plans and bring all participants on board with these new plans, for anything less than six months does zero good. Six months is the bare minimum amount of time we can expect to be needed to have a vaccine approved and available to enough people to change current conditions. Truthfully, six YEARS may not be enough to produce an approved, readily available vaccine. What do we do in that case?

So, based on the last FHSAA Board meeting, the staff was tasked with the responsibility for coming up with plans/proposals that could be considered by the Board at their next meeting (sometime between August 10th and 17th). 

I get the feeling that the Board and the staff would like to have a state series if at all possible.  ColumbiaFan, I'm already on record for stating that they should probably just forgo the state series this year (at least in its current format) and let counties/districts pretty much do whatever they want to do to get in a season of football.  Everyone seems to understand that football pays for the gas that goes into the overall sports engine.   And state championship series help pay for the gas that goes into the FHSAA's engine.  Along those lines, and as I said, I think the FHSAA (both Board and staff) wants to see a championship series, if not a championship game, in each classification.  Perhaps that's just an overly-optimistic viewpoint of where we will be as a state and as a nation in four months.   We won't know for a few months. 

I was just trying to come up with a suggestion that helps build the best pathway to get to that point.  If we don't get there because of Covid, so be it.  But if the health climate in November and December would otherwise allow for some sort of playoffs/championship game(s) and it doesn't happen because of lack of planning, that would be a shame for everyone. 

[DarterBlue2]

24 minutes ago, skyway said:

True leaders need to step up to work together and develop plans to have some semblance of a season...assuming Covid conditions remain largely what they are now. Such plans will be quite complicated and/or different from anything else we've seen in our lifetimes. Do we have any reason to believe such plans are being developed? It appears to me that FHSAA leadership simply wants to remain in denial and delay the inevitable. Delaying the season, for any reason other than to develop said plans and bring all participants on board with these new plans, for anything less than six months does zero good. Six months is the bare minimum amount of time we can expect to be needed to have a vaccine approved and available to enough people to change current conditions. Truthfully, six YEARS may not be enough to produce an approved, readily available vaccine. What do we do in that case?

I have good reason to believe we will have at least two reasonably working vaccines by early next year. But I do agree that the FHSAA should be working on an acceptable plan since the start has been pushed back a month. I don't believe they will, though. So, the question is, if they don't should individual districts push ahead with their own ideas? My own thoughts are: If we have a season, it should probably be abridged. As far as possible, it should try to cover all district games. How should attendance be handled? This is a tough one. The schools obtain a lot of revenues from football. To bar live attendance or severely restrict it, would do a lot of damage to their other sports budgets. However, to allow live attendance will almost certainly result in some infections being spread at the games. Particularly for the better supported programs such as Apopka. 

My own thoughts are that for this year we should err on the side of caution and not have a season (or at most have an abridged season with just a bowl game serving as post season). It would allow for time and serious though to be put into a future under a worst case scenario where we have no vaccine or effective treatment. With that said, it is not for me to try and impose my own beliefs on others. I realize not having a season does damage to the kids, coaches and fans. 

Regardless of what happens, there will be those who are dissatisfied with the outcome. And regardless, of what happens there will be those that are hurt in one way or another. 

This is water under the bridge, but if the shutdown time had been used to properly ramp up testing and contact tracing and impose proper quarantine measures on the exposed and infected, we would be on the back end of the virus now, much as several Asian and European and even Caribbean countries are at this stage.  

[Perspective]

I can't argue much with what you have said Darter.  I'll respond to/answer a couple of the questions you have raised. 

1.  I do think the FHSAA will (try to) come up with some proposals that try to maintain a state series, if at all possible. 

2.  I also believe that if given the choice between football without a state series and no football at all, most everyone is going to be willing to forgo the state series, even if that requires a shortened season. By the way, my proposal was to let counties and districts do whatever they want to do, but leave two weeks at the very end to do a "college football playoffs" type of state championship.  Four teams in each division based on RPI.  Teams with higher RPI host semifinals and finals.  It wouldn't be perfect, but it would result in a state champion in each class and allow the FHSAA to recoup otherwise lost revenue. 

3.  As for fans, I think a certain number should be allowed.  Parents get first priority.  Family groups of 8 or less can sit together.  All other fans (including students) most be socially distanced.  Bands would likely get banned this year and I'm on the fence with respect to cheerleaders.    Also, schools/districts/counties should be allowed to enter into one-year contracts with streaming services so that games could be viewed by those fans who cannot (or choose not) to attend games in person. 

4.  Stretch the player box out from the 25 yard lines to the 5 yard lines. 

5. Last (and I'll be careful not to mention any specific names or political parties so as not to have this thread outcast to social Siberia), imagine how much further along we'd be in the recovery process if certain leaders weren't afraid that being seen wearing a mask would be viewed as a political liability. 

 

[skyway]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

So, based on the last FHSAA Board meeting, the staff was tasked with the responsibility for coming up with plans/proposals that could be considered by the Board at their next meeting (sometime between August 10th and 17th). 

I get the feeling that the Board and the staff would like to have a state series if at all possible.  ColumbiaFan, I'm already on record for stating that they should probably just forgo the state series this year (at least in its current format) and let counties/districts pretty much do whatever they want to do to get in a season of football.  Everyone seems to understand that football pays for the gas that goes into the overall sports engine.   And state championship series help pay for the gas that goes into the FHSAA's engine.  Along those lines, and as I said, I think the FHSAA (both Board and staff) wants to see a championship series, if not a championship game, in each classification.  Perhaps that's just an overly-optimistic viewpoint of where we will be as a state and as a nation in four months.   We won't know for a few months. 

I was just trying to come up with a suggestion that helps build the best pathway to get to that point.  If we don't get there because of Covid, so be it.  But if the health climate in November and December would otherwise allow for some sort of playoffs/championship game(s) and it doesn't happen because of lack of planning, that would be a shame for everyone. 

What conditions will be needed for a state series to occur? The virus to be eradicated? Forget it for 2020. Any time spent hoping for that to occur will be wasted, likely at the expense of other ideas that may actually be workable. If another set of conditions would allow for a state series to be workable while adhering to the guidelines set forth by the medical board, we need those to be more clearly identified and plans built around it. If, as I suspect, the odds of acceptable conditions emerging are extremely unlikely, the appropriate move is likely to cancel some things while allowing and planning for what is realistic. I can foresee a scenario where an eight game schedule, with two weeks between each game to allow for testing/tracing/adjusting etc, would be doable. But, that would have to be decided on very soon. 

[HornetFan]

The first priority in deciding if football is played this season should be about the kids that play the game. If the FHSAA fits into the equation fine; if not, play the season without state playoffs. I think if you polled all players as to whether they feel a state championship game is a high priority, the vast majority of kids would say the season is the priority. 

Do they need a stadium full of fans? It would be nice, but not nice enough to cancel the season if they can't have fans. 

No one seems to be thinking very seriously about what missing the season would mean to seniors that hoped they would be seen as an opportunity to attend a college on a scholarship. To many kids, football may be their only chance of a ticket to college. They missed Spring football practice and their Spring game. College campuses were closed, preventing visits and college football camps. This season is probably their last shot at a scholarship. These kids are more than likely going to be sitting in classrooms this Fall for approximately seven hours a day, five days a week. Two and a half hours in an empty stadium with only necessary personnel present and the teams being controlled by coaches seems to be less risky than a crowded beach on the weekend, or a protest attended by thousands, or even a trip to Walmart or Publix. 

Orange County had moved the start date of school to August 23rd and suspended Fall sports indefinitely just last week. Then, this week, under extreme pressure from the Teachers Union and without conferring with parents or taxpayers, they announced they will move the start date of school forward two weeks to August 10th (on-line education only) as to ensure teachers will be paid in August. So, it appears that the FHSAA is a priority, and the Teachers Union is a priority, but what about the students, especially the kids entering their senior year?

[Perspective]

There are a lot of voices out there:  teachers, coaches, AD's, administrators, physicians, etc.   All of these voices have been heard by the FHSAA -- either directly, or indirectly through one or more of the advisory committees.  But the one voice that I have not heard yet is the voice of the athletes.   Perhaps the assumption is that the athletes will, of course, want to play.  Maybe that's what they would say, maybe not.   I'd certainly bet on the vast majority of them saying that they want to play.  But it just seems a little odd to me that the athletes (some of whom are legal adults at this point) don't have a voice in this process.  

[HornetFan]

35 minutes ago, Perspective said:

There are a lot of voices out there:  teachers, coaches, AD's, administrators, physicians, etc.   All of these voices have been heard by the FHSAA -- either directly, or indirectly through one or more of the advisory committees.  But the one voice that I have not heard yet is the voice of the athletes.   Perhaps the assumption is that the athletes will, of course, want to play.  Maybe that's what they would say, maybe not.   I'd certainly bet on the vast majority of them saying that they want to play.  But it just seems a little odd to me that the athletes (some of whom are legal adults at this point) don't have a voice in this process.  

It appears that those who have a financial interest have been heard; the kids have become an after-thought except when it advances the financial interests of adults. Believe it or not, the Los Angeles Teachers Union just announced they would return to classrooms only after the city defunds the LA police and financial support for charter schools is terminated. I guess the virus is no longer an agenda item. HS students and athletes are being used by the adults whose job it is to educate and protect them. Shame on the Teachers Unions. 

[Jambun82]

5 hours ago, HornetFan said:

It appears that those who have a financial interest have been heard; the kids have become an after-thought except when it advances the financial interests of adults. Believe it or not, the Los Angeles Teachers Union just announced they would return to classrooms only after the city defunds the LA police and financial support for charter schools is terminated. I guess the virus is no longer an agenda item. HS students and athletes are being used by the adults whose job it is to educate and protect them. Shame on the Teachers Unions. 

Yes, this is what I am talking about. There is no reason for a public-servant, taxpayer-funded union to be mandating or dictating anything other than salary and benefits for it's members. You are a treasure to this message board HornetFan.

[Proseteye]

6 hours ago, Perspective said:

There are a lot of voices out there:  teachers, coaches, AD's, administrators, physicians, etc.   All of these voices have been heard by the FHSAA -- either directly, or indirectly through one or more of the advisory committees.  But the one voice that I have not heard yet is the voice of the athletes.   Perhaps the assumption is that the athletes will, of course, want to play.  Maybe that's what they would say, maybe not.   I'd certainly bet on the vast majority of them saying that they want to play.  But it just seems a little odd to me that the athletes (some of whom are legal adults at this point) don't have a voice in this process.  

I would venture to say not one player would state that he didn't want to play and, as such, please cancel the season. The players want to play football regardless. If football is cancelled you are going to see thousands of pretty upset and downright angry kids. Just think of the trouble they can get into when they have just had the sport they love the most taken away from them and possibly any chance of getting in to college. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of parents and fans who support those teams and their players.

[Perspective]

10 hours ago, Proseteye said:

I would venture to say not one player would state that he didn't want to play and, as such, please cancel the season. The players want to play football regardless. If football is cancelled you are going to see thousands of pretty upset and downright angry kids. Just think of the trouble they can get into when they have just had the sport they love the most taken away from them and possibly any chance of getting in to college. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of parents and fans who support those teams and their players.

I couldn't agree more.   I just feel that collective voice needs to be heard. 

[HornetFan]

14 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Yes, this is what I am talking about. There is no reason for a public-servant, taxpayer-funded union to be mandating or dictating anything other than salary and benefits for it's members. You are a treasure to this message board HornetFan.

Jambun, I just try to keep it real. The football season is just another tool in the teachers union's arsenal.

[Jambun82]

10 hours ago, HornetFan said:

Jambun, I just try to keep it real. The football season is just another tool in the teachers union's arsenal.

Yes you are. Thank goodness for school choice.

[Proseteye]

On 7/30/2020 at 9:32 AM, Perspective said:

I couldn't agree more.   I just feel that collective voice needs to be heard. 

I have learned over many years of life that the collective voice doesn't matter much. A couple of individuals in a government organization are making the decision. And they have an agenda that is not that of the collective voice. They listen to the power brokers. 

[HornetFan]

2 hours ago, Proseteye said:

I have learned over many years of life that the collective voice doesn't matter much. A couple of individuals in a government organization are making the decision. And they have an agenda that is not that of the collective voice. They listen to the power brokers. 

And right now, the loudest power broker is the Teachers Union.