Ref Assaulted in Texas HS Game

[OldSchoolLion]

Here's the video.

 

[OldSchoolLion]

Texas has been in the news before

Texas 

[OldSchoolLion]

Last year in Ohio

 

[Nulli Secundus]

WOW!

[Perspective]

Be careful with these posts OldSchool . . .  you might trigger Jambun.  

All kidding aside, all three clips are horrible.   Trust me, I understand all the frustration, intensity and, most of all, testosterone that can fill a high school kid during a game, especially when things aren't going his way, but there is absolutely no excuse for the behavior in any of these three clips.  

[OldSchoolLion]

Sometimes the refs do the best of things

 

[OldSchoolLion]

nothing new...about 10 years ago

nothing new folks...anyone remember thois

[Jambun82]

11 hours ago, Perspective said:

Be careful with these posts OldSchool . . .  you might trigger Jambun.  

All kidding aside, all three clips are horrible.   Trust me, I understand all the frustration, intensity and, most of all, testosterone that can fill a high school kid during a game, especially when things aren't going his way, but there is absolutely no excuse for the behavior in any of these three clips.  

No triggering here Perspective. This is just another possibility in high school sports now. My hope is that any high school player who commits this kind of assault is tried to as an adult, and charged with a felony. Also, the school (taxpayer) needs to be responsible for any medical bills incurred by any official who is attacked in this way. The Head Coach should also be questioned as well, this has to be dealt with swiftly and aggressively. 

[Jambun82]

Also, I was disappointed that the game was not ended at that point with Edinburgh forfeiting the game and being declared the loser. Edinburgh went on to win the game, but thankfully the school board did the right thing and canceled their season, they don't deserve to play anymore games after the assault. 

[Jambun82]

Another thing that I noticed in the video of the Ohio High School Football game that was forfeited after the player assaulted two officials, one of the coaches seems to be upset and appears to yell at the officials for using the correct procedure and canceling the game. After one of his players assaults two officials, that coach has no right at all to complain about anything that the officials rule on after that. If he did complain and carry on like it looks like in the video, my hope is that the appropriate disciplinary action was taken against him by the Principal, AD, or even school board. In my view, that coach needed to be fired immediately. 

[OldSchoolLion]

...just a thought.  Though hitting a kid with a serious charge and putting him in jail may seem like the right thing to do, it will likely do little to change his behavior.   

Some of these kids are ticking time bombs.  We put them in a hyperaggressive situation(football) and then we are "shocked" when they attack.  We shouldn't be.  In fact, we should expect it.  That is not to say we should not correct the behavior.  

The kid on the Ohio team goes to a school with 95% minorities.  Their students' proficiency levels are 8% in reading and 5% in math.  Some of these kids likely have challenging lives at home which nurtures their aggression.

 Without an outlet, things can be much worse.  HS football can have a positive influence.  I would much rather a kid have an outburst on a football field than out in the street where he could get himself shot.  Kudos to the coaches out there trying to help these kids.

 

 

 

    

  

[Perspective]

10 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Also, I was disappointed that the game was not ended at that point with Edinburgh forfeiting the game and being declared the loser. Edinburgh went on to win the game, but thankfully the school board did the right thing and canceled their season, they don't deserve to play anymore games after the assault. 

Jambun, I struggle with this issue.   I think we all agree that the kid who hit the official deserves to be punished (although we might quibble over the severity of the punishment and who dishes out the punishment).   And while I understand that football is the epitome of a team game, unless there is some evidence that the coaches promoted the behavior, I struggle with making the other 50-70 players on this team pay for his crime.  I can see both sides of the argument.  The player got penalized and then ejected for his (apparent) late hit on the QB and whatever he did or said to the ref immediately after that.   Another penalty obviously should have been assessed against the kid/team when the kid ran back onto the field and hit the ref.  (Question for you Jambun:  when a player is ejected from a Florida high school football game, does he have to leave the bench area?  If so, should the officials have waited until that happened before resuming play?  Either way, should the officials have called the game right then and there?  Under what authority?). 

Again, without evidence that the school/coaches/team promoted an atmosphere of disrespect towards officials that could, in any way, help to explain the kid's actions, I'm just not sure that the collective seasons of all the other kids should end because of the actions of one.  Put yourself into the shoes of the other hundred plus parents. 

On the flip side, I guess you can make the argument that it's no different than a kid cheating in school or lying about his residence and then being declared ineligible.  Typically, the team suffers the penalty when it has to forfeit games. 

So, what say you others out there?   Even the guy providing commentary noticed that the coaches and teammates of the wrongdoer handled themselves in the right way.  Suspend the kid indefinitely/for the rest of his high school career.  Charge him with a crime.   Regardless of the kid's punishment, should the team be prohibited from continuing to play?   What if the kid had waited until after the game before he charged the official?   What if he had waited until the next day, tracked him down, followed him to The Home Depot and then charged him right in front of all the power tools?  Would your opinion be the same?  

[OldSchoolLion]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Jambun, I struggle with this issue.   I think we all agree that the kid who hit the official deserves to be punished (although we might quibble over the severity of the punishment and who dishes out the punishment).   And while I understand that football is the epitome of a team game, unless there is some evidence that the coaches promoted the behavior, I struggle with making the other 50-70 players on this team pay for his crime.  I can see both sides of the argument.  The player got penalized and then ejected for his (apparent) late hit on the QB and whatever he did or said to the ref immediately after that.   Another penalty obviously should have been assessed against the kid/team when the kid ran back onto the field and hit the ref.  (Question for you Jambun:  when a player is ejected from a Florida high school football game, does he have to leave the bench area?  If so, should the officials have waited until that happened before resuming play?  Either way, should the officials have called the game right then and there?  Under what authority?). 

Again, without evidence that the school/coaches/team promoted an atmosphere of disrespect towards officials that could, in any way, help to explain the kid's actions, I'm just not sure that the collective seasons of all the other kids should end because of the actions of one.  Put yourself into the shoes of the other hundred plus parents. 

On the flip side, I guess you can make the argument that it's no different than a kid cheating in school or lying about his residence and then being declared ineligible.  Typically, the team suffers the penalty when it has to forfeit games. 

So, what say you others out there?   Even the guy providing commentary noticed that the coaches and teammates of the wrongdoer handled themselves in the right way.  Suspend the kid indefinitely/for the rest of his high school career.  Charge him with a crime.   Regardless of the kid's punishment, should the team be prohibited from continuing to play?   What if the kid had waited until after the game before he charged the official?   What if he had waited until the next day, tracked him down, followed him to The Home Depot and then charged him right in front of all the power tools?  Would your opinion be the same?  

I read up on this game, which took place last year.  The kid who headbutted the ref was from Dunbar High, a historically black high school in Dayton, OH.  It was Dunbar's first game of the season against private school Roger Bacon from Cincinnati.  A little less than midway through the second quarter, and Dunbar already had 12 flags thrown against it....and were losing by 15 points  The article stated that Bacon's coach was told before the game it would be "tightly officiated."  I wonder why?

Dunbar was badly beaten by a private school in the opener the prior season.  In Ohio, there is quite a bit of tension between private schools and public schools because private schools have done a lot of winning there, going back to the Archbishop Moeller days. 

   

 

[Perspective]

10 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I read up on this game, which took place last year.  The kid who headbutted the ref was from Dunbar High, a historically black high school in Dayton, OH.  It was Dunbar's first game of the season against private school Roger Bacon from Cincinnati.  A little less than midway through the second quarter, and Dunbar already had 12 flags thrown against it....and were losing by 15 points  The article stated that Bacon's coach was told before the game it would be "tightly officiated."  I wonder why?

Dunbar was badly beaten by a private school in the opener the prior season.  In Ohio, there is quite a bit of tension between private schools and public schools because private schools have done a lot of winning there, going back to the Archbishop Moeller days. 

   

 

Good background, OldSchool.  But just to be clear, I was responding to Jambun's comments about the Edinburg/PSJA (Texas high school) game -- your first clip -- where the player (number 88, I think) comes running back onto the field after being ejected and slams into the ref.  From Jambun's comments, that game was allowed to continue and the team for whom the ejected player plays ended up winning the game, only to have some governing body decide afterwards that, because of the incident, their season would be declared over.  

[OldSchoolLion]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Jambun, I struggle with this issue.   I think we all agree that the kid who hit the official deserves to be punished (although we might quibble over the severity of the punishment and who dishes out the punishment).   And while I understand that football is the epitome of a team game, unless there is some evidence that the coaches promoted the behavior, I struggle with making the other 50-70 players on this team pay for his crime.  I can see both sides of the argument.  The player got penalized and then ejected for his (apparent) late hit on the QB and whatever he did or said to the ref immediately after that.   Another penalty obviously should have been assessed against the kid/team when the kid ran back onto the field and hit the ref.  (Question for you Jambun:  when a player is ejected from a Florida high school football game, does he have to leave the bench area?  If so, should the officials have waited until that happened before resuming play?  Either way, should the officials have called the game right then and there?  Under what authority?). 

Again, without evidence that the school/coaches/team promoted an atmosphere of disrespect towards officials that could, in any way, help to explain the kid's actions, I'm just not sure that the collective seasons of all the other kids should end because of the actions of one.  Put yourself into the shoes of the other hundred plus parents. 

On the flip side, I guess you can make the argument that it's no different than a kid cheating in school or lying about his residence and then being declared ineligible.  Typically, the team suffers the penalty when it has to forfeit games. 

So, what say you others out there?   Even the guy providing commentary noticed that the coaches and teammates of the wrongdoer handled themselves in the right way.  Suspend the kid indefinitely/for the rest of his high school career.  Charge him with a crime.   Regardless of the kid's punishment, should the team be prohibited from continuing to play?   What if the kid had waited until after the game before he charged the official?   What if he had waited until the next day, tracked him down, followed him to The Home Depot and then charged him right in front of all the power tools?  Would your opinion be the same?  

The following made a lot of press in Ohio.    In 2018, there was a brawl in a regular season game involving Dunbar vs Bishop Fenwick, a private school.  After suing, Dunbar was allowed to play in the state tournament, and employed the strategy in the second link to win against Fenwick. When all the dust settled, it was determined that Dunbar was culpable in the brawl.   

https://dayton247now.com/news/local/dps-admits-mistake-puts-new-sanctions-on-dunbar-after-new-video-of-basketball-brawl

https://usatodayhss.com/2018/how-standing-around-won-a-playoff-basketball-game-in-ohio

One article I read had the following quote from a Dunbar football player....(The OHSAA), they’re always picking on Dunbar,” said Scates, a talented receiver who signed with Iowa State University to play football. “It’s like a tradition, now. There’s a lot of doubt that goes on in the city against Dunbar. We take that as motivation and use it to our advantage.”

[OldSchoolLion]

7 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Good background, OldSchool.  But just to be clear, I was responding to Jambun's comments about the Edinburg/PSJA (Texas high school) game -- your first clip -- where the player (number 88, I think) comes running back onto the field after being ejected and slams into the ref.  From Jambun's comments, that game was allowed to continue and the team for whom the ejected player plays ended up winning the game, only to have some governing body decide afterwards that, because of the incident, their season would be declared over.  

I apologize for the confusion.  I was thinking in terms of whether it was justified for refs to end the Ohio game and, in essence, punish the whole team for the actions on one player.

[Perspective]

21 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I apologize for the confusion.  I was thinking in terms of whether it was justified for refs to end the Ohio game and, in essence, punish the whole team for the actions on one player.

No apology needed.   The issue is very similar.  There is one big distinction:  in the Ohio game, it appears the refs made the decision to end the game (while, presumably, the decision was within their jurisdiction to make).  In the Texas game, it appears the refs allowed the game to be completed and some governing body (similar to the FHSAA or the county AD's office) came along after the fact and made the decision to disqualify the team from any future play.  But, to your point, in both situations, it's a team being punished based on the actions of an individual. 

[OldSchoolLion]

21 minutes ago, Perspective said:

No apology needed.   The issue is very similar.  There is one big distinction:  in the Ohio game, it appears the refs made the decision to end the game (while, presumably, the decision was within their jurisdiction to make).  In the Texas game, it appears the refs allowed the game to be completed and some governing body (similar to the FHSAA or the county AD's office) came along after the fact and made the decision to disqualify the team from any future play.  But, to your point, in both situations, it's a team being punished based on the actions of an individual. 

There is a hard lesson for the kids today...do something to damage your reputation and you are gonna pay for it for a long time.  This is one of the downsides of computers.  In the old days, unless someone was inclined to go the library and search microfiche, you could escape your past, to some extent.  It is very unforgiving today.

[Jambun82]

18 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...just a thought.  Though hitting a kid with a serious charge and putting him in jail may seem like the right thing to do, it will likely do little to change his behavior.   

Some of these kids are ticking time bombs.  We put them in a hyperaggressive situation(football) and then we are "shocked" when they attack.  We shouldn't be.  In fact, we should expect it.  That is not to say we should not correct the behavior.  

The kid on the Ohio team goes to a school with 95% minorities.  Their students' proficiency levels are 8% in reading and 5% in math.  Some of these kids likely have challenging lives at home which nurtures their aggression.

 Without an outlet, things can be much worse.  HS football can have a positive influence.  I would much rather a kid have an outburst on a football field than out in the street where he could get himself shot.  Kudos to the coaches out there trying to help these kids.

 

 

 

    

  

I don't care about any child who assaults a game official. That child's future is of no concern to me. 

[Jambun82]

14 hours ago, Perspective said:

Jambun, I struggle with this issue.   I think we all agree that the kid who hit the official deserves to be punished (although we might quibble over the severity of the punishment and who dishes out the punishment).   And while I understand that football is the epitome of a team game, unless there is some evidence that the coaches promoted the behavior, I struggle with making the other 50-70 players on this team pay for his crime.  I can see both sides of the argument.  The player got penalized and then ejected for his (apparent) late hit on the QB and whatever he did or said to the ref immediately after that.   Another penalty obviously should have been assessed against the kid/team when the kid ran back onto the field and hit the ref.  (Question for you Jambun:  when a player is ejected from a Florida high school football game, does he have to leave the bench area?  If so, should the officials have waited until that happened before resuming play?  Either way, should the officials have called the game right then and there?  Under what authority?). 

Again, without evidence that the school/coaches/team promoted an atmosphere of disrespect towards officials that could, in any way, help to explain the kid's actions, I'm just not sure that the collective seasons of all the other kids should end because of the actions of one.  Put yourself into the shoes of the other hundred plus parents. 

On the flip side, I guess you can make the argument that it's no different than a kid cheating in school or lying about his residence and then being declared ineligible.  Typically, the team suffers the penalty when it has to forfeit games. 

So, what say you others out there?   Even the guy providing commentary noticed that the coaches and teammates of the wrongdoer handled themselves in the right way.  Suspend the kid indefinitely/for the rest of his high school career.  Charge him with a crime.   Regardless of the kid's punishment, should the team be prohibited from continuing to play?   What if the kid had waited until after the game before he charged the official?   What if he had waited until the next day, tracked him down, followed him to The Home Depot and then charged him right in front of all the power tools?  Would your opinion be the same?  

Perspective, if a team is forced to forfeit a season because of an ineligible player, a team can certainly forfeit a season because one of it's players assaulted an official. The player from Edinburgh committed assault before, he should not have been playing in that football game in the first place. If I was a parent of one of the other players, I would be furious and demand the coaching staff's dismissal immediately.   

[OldSchoolLion]

A survey of 800 adolescent athletes playing 10 different sports found that 13% of students deliberately tried to hurt an opponent at least once during a game. 

One Minnesota survey found that 17% of adolescent athletes said that an adult had hit, kicked, and slapped them while participating in sports.  Is it any wonder some of these kids might act aggressively?

A survey demonstrated that 13% of parents admit they’ve angrily criticized their child’s sport performance after a game...creating stress in kids which can lead to excessive aggression. 

[OldSchoolLion]

Clearly their behavior is unacceptable.  But it begs the question "why?"   In addition to being a talented football player, the kid in the first video is supposedly one of the better wrestlers in the state in his weight class. So, he plays at least two contact sports. 

Wrestling is a fairly disciplined sport and someone who cannot control their anger will have problems.  If he was a complete loose cannon, I doubt he would have made it through an entire season and competed at the state wrestling tournament.

There are likely certain things that "set him off."  He needs therapy, not jail time.  Anyone out there who has seen combat and/or grown up in a physically abusive home knows there are certain stimuli which can subconsciously trigger aggressive behavior.

We train soldiers to be aggressive, but we don't like it when they return from the battlefield and cannot "turn it off."  Similarly, we are encouraging aggressive behavior in teenagers in certain sports, but we don't like the outcomes, at times.  There are certain kids who are going to have more of a challenge than others learning how to "turn it off."   Take a kid who has some mental health issues, naturally high testosterone levels, and an alcoholic father who beats him, and you've got a time bomb.  Whether it be a soldier or a hs football player, it's our responsibility to help these people.  In a manner of speaking, we have watered the seed and helped create them.  Throwing them in jail is just sweeping the "problem" under the carpet.