3rd times a charm?

[EagleEye]

How are we feeling about Edgewater taking home a ring this year, front end of this schedule is loaded so I think they'll be a bit more prepared to work with the lack of their 2021 class.

[KeemD321]

That back to back against Venice and Jones following will be tough. They'll definitely be well prepared to take another shot at the title with those games against Seminole, Venice, Jones, Apopka and Wekiva.

[badbird]

they play Osceola in the spring also.  It's just a spring game but a good test for both teams

[HornetFan]

On 4/7/2021 at 10:27 AM, EagleEye said:

How are we feeling about Edgewater taking home a ring this year, front end of this schedule is loaded so I think they'll be a bit more prepared to work with the lack of their 2021 class.

They will graduate three of their top players in Christian Leary, Tommi Hill, and Canaan Mobley, with Mobley being their starting QB. I don't see how they'll replace those three from their current roster, especially QB where the backup appears to be undersized and inexperienced. Unless the transfer/recruiting process works more than a few miracles, I think Edgewater's Fall schedule has the potential for as many as 5 losses. They have a great coach, but he can't run or pass the ball for them. I see only 3 easy wins on their schedule (East Ridge, Winter haven, and Ridge Community).

[HornetFan]

On 4/14/2021 at 10:17 AM, badbird said:

they play Osceola in the spring also.  It's just a spring game but a good test for both teams

This will tell a great deal about Edgewater going forward. They are losing several star players, including their only experienced QB, to graduation. Osceola is moving up in class and returns Chad Mascoe, their highly rated QB. Unless Edgewater pulls several new players out of their hat, I think Osceola will dominate this game.

[badbird]

18 hours ago, HornetFan said:

This will tell a great deal about Edgewater going forward. They are losing several star players, including their only experienced QB, to graduation. Osceola is moving up in class and returns Chad Mascoe, their highly rated QB. Unless Edgewater pulls several new players out of their hat, I think Osceola will dominate this game.

Osceola is not moving up in class.  They have been 8A since 2015.  They are just now in a district with Orange County teams.  

Osceola should be one of the favorites if not the favorite in 8A.  They return most of their skill players on offense.  They also return most of their defense including 2 D1 defensive lineman and 2 D1 secondary players.  Linebacker and OL will be the two biggest concerns.   My guess is Osceola has a few kids that will step up.

 

[skyway]

I believe Edgewater's current staff is excellent in talent acquisition. I expect they'll be loaded with talent, be it from within or from other schools.

[Perspective]

1 hour ago, skyway said:

I believe Edgewater's current staff is excellent in talent acquisition. I expect they'll be loaded with talent, be it from within or from other schools.

Is "talent acquisition" code for recruiting?  It's one thing to have a program that attracts kids from other schools, but the choice of words used here suggests something else is happening.   No dog in the fight; just curious. 

[HornetFan]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Is "talent acquisition" code for recruiting?  It's one thing to have a program that attracts kids from other schools, but the choice of words used here suggests something else is happening.   No dog in the fight; just curious. 

If they follow recent "talent acquisition" measures of past few seasons, the "R" word is not out of the question. With the relationships that elite players are developing on all-star type 7v7 teams in the off season, players rather than coaches are doing the recruiting. It will be interesting to see if Edgewater comes up with a transfer to fill their QB vacancy.

[Jambun82]

4 hours ago, Perspective said:

Is "talent acquisition" code for recruiting?  It's one thing to have a program that attracts kids from other schools, but the choice of words used here suggests something else is happening.   No dog in the fight; just curious. 

Edgewater competes against the Fort Lauderdale All-Star team for the 7A state title. Nothing to see here. The Eagles have done nothing wrong, and have no one to answer to. Moving on. 

[skyway]

On 4/27/2021 at 2:13 PM, Perspective said:

Is "talent acquisition" code for recruiting?  It's one thing to have a program that attracts kids from other schools, but the choice of words used here suggests something else is happening.   No dog in the fight; just curious. 

Recruiting is a perfectly reasonable, ethical approach which is already employed by all or nearly all schools, be it in sports, academics or other extracurriculars. Bribing players to play for a school is both creepy and unethical. Why this distinction is obfuscated is entirely unclear. 

I have no idea what Edgewater's staff (or its players) are doing, but they are now ending up with a lot more talent than they used to get. I'm not saying there's anything bad or wrong about that. My school is famous (or infamous) for this as well.

[Jambun82]

17 minutes ago, skyway said:

Recruiting is a perfectly reasonable, ethical approach which is already employed by all or nearly all schools, be it in sports, academics or other extracurriculars. Bribing players to play for a school is both creepy and unethical. Why this distinction is obfuscated is entirely unclear. 

I have no idea what Edgewater's staff (or its players) are doing, but they are now ending up with a lot more talent than they used to get. I'm not saying there's anything bad or wrong about that. My school is famous (or infamous) for this as well.

If you have no idea what the Edgewater staff or players are or are not doing, I don't believe that it is a good idea to even speculate about that word that you emphasized. I have seen firsthand that the Eagles have a great coaching staff, and overall program. That is probably a big reason why many top players in the area want to be a part of that experience. 

[skyway]

12 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

If you have no idea what the Edgewater staff or players are or are not doing, I don't believe that it is a good idea to even speculate about that word that you emphasized. I have seen firsthand that the Eagles have a great coaching staff, and overall program. That is probably a big reason why many top players in the area want to be a part of that experience. 

Exactly. The program has attracted talent that previously may have ended up somewhere else.

[HornetFan]

13 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

If you have no idea what the Edgewater staff or players are or are not doing, I don't believe that it is a good idea to even speculate about that word that you emphasized. I have seen firsthand that the Eagles have a great coaching staff, and overall program. That is probably a big reason why many top players in the area want to be a part of that experience. 

When players on a neighboring team tell their friends and teammates that they were approached by elite Edgewater players to jump ship to Edgewater, it's pretty hard to close your eyes and say they are not "Recruiting". Neither player jumped, but they mentioned kids from other schools that did transfer. This happens every year throughout the state, but few people want to acknowledge or talk about it.

[DarterBlue2]

2 hours ago, skyway said:

Exactly. The program has attracted talent that previously may have ended up somewhere else.

You have to understand where Edgewater is located. It is just northwest of downtown Orlando. It borders: Jones to the south; Evans to the west; Wekiva to the northwest; Winter Park to the east; and, Boone to the southeast (It also has a small border with Colonial to the east-southeast, but there is not much talent there.) The point is, that kids in those neighboring schools can often just as easily commute to Edgewater as they could to their own, zoned school. 

Thus when Edgewater has a good coaching staff (Gierke era or currently), it is easy for neighboring talent to choose to go there. And, they are not at capacity, so, they don't have an issue with headcount. Thus, there is no issue justifying admission. 

[Perspective]

17 hours ago, skyway said:

Recruiting is a perfectly reasonable, ethical approach which is already employed by all or nearly all schools, be it in sports, academics or other extracurriculars.

 

This may be the single most confusing sentence I've seen posted on this site by someone not named Jesse. 

Are you saying that this is the way things ought to be or the way things are?  If the latter, it is 100% in violation of FHSAA rules.   So, either the rules need to change or the behavior needs to change.   Otherwise, the schools (including coaches, players and boosters) who follow the rules get penalized and get their butts kicked by the schools that are not following the rules.  There needs to be a level playing field. 

 

[Jambun82]

10 hours ago, HornetFan said:

When players on a neighboring team tell their friends and teammates that they were approached by elite Edgewater players to jump ship to Edgewater, it's pretty hard to close your eyes and say they are not "Recruiting". Neither player jumped, but they mentioned kids from other schools that did transfer. This happens every year throughout the state, but few people want to acknowledge or talk about it.

I will be happy to acknowledge it and talk about it. High School players want to be coached up, and get the most out of their High School experience. Good for them and I support their decisions. 

[Jambun82]

6 hours ago, Perspective said:

This may be the single most confusing sentence I've seen posted on this site by someone not named Jesse. 

Are you saying that this is the way things ought to be or the way things are?  If the latter, it is 100% in violation of FHSAA rules.   So, either the rules need to change or the behavior needs to change.   Otherwise, the schools (including coaches, players and boosters) who follow the rules get penalized and get their butts kicked by the schools that are not following the rules.  There needs to be a level playing field. 

 

The rules need to change. 

[Perspective]

12 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

The rules need to change. 

Jambun, that's a bold statement.  I'd love to hear you expound on this. 

How should the rules be changed?   Should all schools/coaches be able to openly recruit?  On-campus visits for 8th graders?  On-campus visits for kids playing at other schools?   Can a coach from one team go to a game between two other neighboring schools when his team has an off week and then talk to kids who just played in the game as they are walking off the field?  Can a school set up a booth at a 7-on-7 tournament and give away free Gatorade and Power Bars to kids from other teams?  Will high school kids be on social media bragging about their "offers" from all the various high schools in their area (or the area in the next county or state over)?

Colleges have a difficult enough time monitoring the recruiting process.   It occurs to me that the issue will simply go from "are they really recruiting?" to "are they following the recruiting rules?"   There will be guys out there that will always try to push the envelope (and who will cross the line) in order to get an advantage. 

Would open recruiting benefit "wealthy schools?"  Won't this further exacerbate the "haves and the have nots" disparity we've already started to see? 

While I have my own opinion on the matter, I'm willing to keep an open mind.   But before we open Pandora's Box, I think it's worth having the discussion of what the Wild, Wild West will look like if all schools, coaches and players are allowed to openly recruit. 

[skyway]

22 hours ago, Perspective said:

This may be the single most confusing sentence I've seen posted on this site by someone not named Jesse. 

Are you saying that this is the way things ought to be or the way things are?  If the latter, it is 100% in violation of FHSAA rules.   So, either the rules need to change or the behavior needs to change.   Otherwise, the schools (including coaches, players and boosters) who follow the rules get penalized and get their butts kicked by the schools that are not following the rules.  There needs to be a level playing field. 

 

First, we must agree upon the definition of "recruit" (v). Dictionary.com has it as this: " to engage in finding and attracting employees, new members, students, athletes, etc." This is something all schools must do in an era with charter schools, private schools and school choice. Schools regularly plan tours of their campuses for kids at the lower grade level, and they make every effort to sell the school to those students. Schools regularly add new programs to attract more students. Schools of Engineering, Schools for the Arts, etc come to mind. Schools also make phone calls to parents to inquire as to whether their child, who is zoned for the school but not required to enroll, will be attending. And, probably at a minimum, say something like "we really hope to have you here in the Fall!" This is all perfectly ethical, and commonplace.

I think when sports fan see the term, they think it means to bribe players to come to a certain school. Make no mistake, this is deeply unethical. This should be banned. 

But, all schools having the ability to develop and market programs that will attract students and athletes does still constitute a "level playing field". That some do a better job of this, and thus attract more students and athletes, is not some sort of awful thing. Mandating precisely equal outcomes, regardless of the quality of work done, is...communism. It is not something supported by the vast majority of Americans, though I acknowledge there is growing support for it.

[skyway]

3 hours ago, Perspective said:

Jambun, that's a bold statement.  I'd love to hear you expound on this. 

How should the rules be changed?   Should all schools/coaches be able to openly recruit?  On-campus visits for 8th graders?  On-campus visits for kids playing at other schools?   Can a coach from one team go to a game between two other neighboring schools when his team has an off week and then talk to kids who just played in the game as they are walking off the field?  Can a school set up a booth at a 7-on-7 tournament and give away free Gatorade and Power Bars to kids from other teams?  Will high school kids be on social media bragging about their "offers" from all the various high schools in their area (or the area in the next county or state over)?

Colleges have a difficult enough time monitoring the recruiting process.   It occurs to me that the issue will simply go from "are they really recruiting?" to "are they following the recruiting rules?"   There will be guys out there that will always try to push the envelope (and who will cross the line) in order to get an advantage. 

Would open recruiting benefit "wealthy schools?"  Won't this further exacerbate the "haves and the have nots" disparity we've already started to see? 

While I have my own opinion on the matter, I'm willing to keep an open mind.   But before we open Pandora's Box, I think it's worth having the discussion of what the Wild, Wild West will look like if all schools, coaches and players are allowed to openly recruit. 

Responses are for each section I bolded, in order.

- I teach at a middle school. This *already* happens with 5th graders, all of them. It happens out in the open, and this is because it is common sense. No students are obligated to attend any particular school. They can opt for a private school, a charter school or another traditional public school in many circumstances. Why shouldn't the kids and parents get to tour and become informed about all of their options? Why shouldn't schools-which are already in competition with each other for students- get to market their schools to the public?

- Offer for what? The ability to attend a particular school is rarely in debate. No "offer" is needed for that. Now, if the offer is a bribe, as I mention above, that is something entirely different, and unethical.

- Of course it would. Just like it already does, and already has. Those schools tend to offer a better experience for the kids. Now, we can try to uplift schools lacking resources, and we should. But, we shouldn't pursue "equity" through tearing others down, or offering less/inferior products.

[Jags904]

So people are saying that we should have high school sports where coaches are legally allowed to recruit players from another school? 
 

Can they provide transportation/housing if necessary?

[skyway]

3 hours ago, Jags904 said:

So people are saying that we should have high school sports where coaches are legally allowed to recruit players from another school? 
 

Can they provide transportation/housing if necessary?

Not really. Schools should be able to market themselves to the community. Adults shouldn't be contacting kids. But, if a kid on School X  contacts a kid on School Y and encourages him to join School X, that's just kids being kids. It would be asinine to try and police that. And, if the kid on School Y becomes curious, and wants to check out the school, he should be allowed to do so. And that kind of thing happens a lot these days. Players from the same towns and neighborhoods know, or know of, each other. They'll play pick-up games and have drills in local parks. And they'll talk about each other's coaches, and each other's teams. Players recruit players, but they almost certainly never bribe them. And, if the kid on School X has said, "we're close to winning state, we just need an awesome D-end like you!", and the kid from School Y plays for a team that stinks, it's hard for the kid to stay with the team that stinks. 

Housing to attend a specific school would be an obvious, egregious bribe. Thus it should be prohibited. Transportation would fall under the same category. (Though perhaps a school bus picks up at a location easily accessible to kids who'd otherwise attend a different school. In which case, if space exists on the bus, the kid should be allowed to ride.)

[Jesse]

2 hours ago, skyway said:

Not really. Schools should be able to market themselves to the community. Adults shouldn't be contacting kids. But, if a kid on School X  contacts a kid on School Y and encourages him to join School X, that's just kids being kids. It would be asinine to try and police that. And, if the kid on School Y becomes curious, and wants to check out the school, he should be allowed to do so. And that kind of thing happens a lot these days. Players from the same towns and neighborhoods know, or know of, each other. They'll play pick-up games and have drills in local parks. And they'll talk about each other's coaches, and each other's teams. Players recruit players, but they almost certainly never bribe them. And, if the kid on School X has said, "we're close to winning state, we just need an awesome D-end like you!", and the kid from School Y plays for a team that stinks, it's hard for the kid to stay with the team that stinks. 

Housing to attend a specific school would be an obvious, egregious bribe. Thus it should be prohibited. Transportation would fall under the same category. (Though perhaps a school bus picks up at a location easily accessible to kids who'd otherwise attend a different school. In which case, if space exists on the bus, the kid should be allowed to ride.)

It's funny how high schools do all this recuirting and offer these things. And still lose games lol. 

[skyway]

20 minutes ago, Jesse said:

It's funny how high schools do all this recuirting and offer these things. And still lose games lol. 

No, it makes perfect sense. Because recruiting isn't bribing. So, poor programs wouldn't figure to keep the players from leaving for a winner.