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2021 Transfer Thread


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45 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Alot depends on chemistry emphasizing TEAM!  We had a dynamic kid playing QB a couple years back named Davon Wells, but he really wasn't a QB.  Going into his senior year we were expecting to get Chad Mascoe to move back home, but Chad chose instead to give IMG a try (sophomore year).  Our QB was excited about moving to the slot as he would have been terrific in space because he knew it would help us be better.  That never materialized so Davon finish his career as our signal caller.

The big difference is that your QB at the time, Wells, actually embraced moving over if Mascoe moved back. Patti's cousin, Nick, made a name for himself at DP as a QB about 10 years ago and then went on to Boise State. Joe Joe Patti is going into his 4th year at DP and sees himself as a QB. It's kind of late now to start looking for a spot, but would he try and move to another school for his senior year? A similar thing happened at Seminole HS this year. Timmy McClain, their stud QB, graduated and moved on to USF It was assumed that his brother Andrew would move into the QB slot, but Luke Rucker, the rising junior Oviedo QB, saw an opportunity to QB the defending 8A state champs and he transferred to Seminole. Andrew McClain, in turn, transferred to Apopka for his senior year. Seminole has a talented young QB entering the 10th grade who could possibly challenge Rucker for the starting position this season. It's going to be real interesting to see how some of these moves work out in the Fall season.

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2 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

The big difference is that your QB at the time, Wells, actually embraced moving over if Mascoe moved back. Patti's cousin, Nick, made a name for himself at DP as a QB about 10 years ago and then went on to Boise State. Joe Joe Patti is going into his 4th year at DP and sees himself as a QB. It's kind of late now to start looking for a spot, but would he try and move to another school for his senior year? A similar thing happened at Seminole HS this year. Timmy McClain, their stud QB, graduated and moved on to USF It was assumed that his brother Andrew would move into the QB slot, but Luke Rucker, the rising junior Oviedo QB, saw an opportunity to QB the defending 8A state champs and he transferred to Seminole. Andrew McClain, in turn, transferred to Apopka for his senior year. Seminole has a talented young QB entering the 10th grade who could possibly challenge Rucker for the starting position this season. It's going to be real interesting to see how some of these moves work out in the Fall season.

My guess is that Rodney Wells wants to win.  The tenure Patti has means something, but it doesn't trump winning.

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46 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

My guess is that Rodney Wells wants to win.  The tenure Patti has means something, but it doesn't trump winning.

Rodney Wells is a good coach and I'm sure he wants to win, but will he chance upsetting team chemistry going forward? It appears he will because I doubt the kid would transfer without first talking to Wells. One would think he was, at the very least, promised a shot at the starting position.

"The tenure Patti has means something, but it doesn't trump winning." 

Think about what you said there, and what kind of message does that send to Patti, his teammates, especially to his close friends on the team, and other kids contemplating playing a team sport in HS. It's not about playing football in HS; it's about winning, and if a better player comes along, you're out, regardless of what you've given for your team and your school over the past three years. This kid makes it clear in the interview that it's about him and what the transfer can do for his recruitment. Something doesn't seem right; if DP had a vacant spot at QB, I could see it, but somehow this appears to have more to it, at least to me, I keep thinking that "R" word, especially after seeing DP in the Spring Jamboree..

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9 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

Rodney Wells is a good coach and I'm sure he wants to win, but will he chance upsetting team chemistry going forward? It appears he will because I doubt the kid would transfer without first talking to Wells. One would think he was, at the very least, promised a shot at the starting position.

"The tenure Patti has means something, but it doesn't trump winning." 

Think about what you said there, and what kind of message does that send to Patti, his teammates, especially to his close friends on the team, and other kids contemplating playing a team sport in HS. It's not about playing football in HS; it's about winning, and if a better player comes along, you're out, regardless of what you've given for your team and your school over the past three years. This kid makes it clear in the interview that it's about him and what the transfer can do for his recruitment. Something doesn't seem right; if DP had a vacant spot at QB, I could see it, but somehow this appears to have more to it, at least to me, I keep thinking that "R" word, especially after seeing DP in the Spring Jamboree..

I didn't say winning at any cost, but if winning isn't the goal why keep score?

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46 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

I didn't say winning at any cost, but if winning isn't the goal why keep score?

Neither of us said "winning at any cost".   I don't dispute that the goal is to win, and yes, that's why we keep score to determine which team wins.

You said: "The tenure Patti has means something, but it doesn't trump winning." 

What is most important is are there limits to what you will do to win? Will a coach cross the line to gain an advantage when they understand that to do so either (1) violates rules they have agreed to uphold, and/or (2) violates a trust that the kids on the team have with the coach and the team. When do you sacrifice your integrity for the sake of winning?  I think we entrust our coaches to teach our kids that there are a lot of things that are more important in sports than winning. I think we're losing that in HS football. 

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22 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

Neither of us said "winning at any cost".   I don't dispute that the goal is to win, and yes, that's why we keep score to determine which team wins.

You said: "The tenure Patti has means something, but it doesn't trump winning." 

What is most important is are there limits to what you will do to win? Will a coach cross the line to gain an advantage when they understand that to do so either (1) violates rules they have agreed to uphold, and/or (2) violates a trust that the kids on the team have with the coach and the team. When do you sacrifice your integrity for the sake of winning?  I think we entrust our coaches to teach our kids that there are a lot of things that are more important in sports than winning. I think we're losing that in HS football. 

As I said before, no one is advocating winning at any cost so your argument is as they say a red herring.  Kids on every team throughout the state work hard to earn a starting spot every year.  Yet every year, that kid gets beat out by an underclassmen, someone that goes thru a growth spurt, a transfer or whatever.  If you care about your team, you will understand that football needs backups and if that is your role determined by your coach you should embrace it for the good of the team.  If you are going to complain and disrupt the chemistry as you say, as your coach I would ask you to leave.  This process plays out on every team, every year be for the QB spot, DL, RB.  Someone has to sit and that is playing a significant role for the success of your team.  

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14 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

As I said before, no one is advocating winning at any cost so your argument is as they say a red herring.  Kids on every team throughout the state work hard to earn a starting spot every year.  Yet every year, that kid gets beat out by an underclassmen, someone that goes thru a growth spurt, a transfer or whatever.  If you care about your team, you will understand that football needs backups and if that is your role determined by your coach you should embrace it for the good of the team.  If you are going to complain and disrupt the chemistry as you say, as your coach I would ask you to leave.  This process plays out on every team, every year be for the QB spot, DL, RB.  Someone has to sit and that is playing a significant role for the success of your team.  

For the sake of argument, how many other players have transferred in at DP year after year and taken someone else's spot.  Countless, they want to win that's their goal and if one of the transferee's is a receiver that will help Patti is he gonna squawk.  I doubt it so get off the righteousness argument and understand that things don't always go your way.

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3 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

For the sake of argument, how many other players have transferred in at DP year after year and taken someone else's spot.  Countless, they want to win that's their goal and if one of the transferee's is a receiver that will help Patti is he gonna squawk.  I doubt it so get off the righteousness argument and understand that things don't always go your way.

QB is the most unique position in football and perhaps in all of sports. Rarely do you platoon your QB's; there's a starter and for the most part, the other QB's ride the pines. RB's, WR's, and other positions can expect playing time even if they're not the starter. I'm not trying to be righteous; but unless his local high school is academically deficient, I believe a kid should attend the high school where his parents or legal guardians actually reside full time and pay taxes. 

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Wrong again.  Our school routinely plays backups for experience, reward them for their work, etc.. including the QB's.  Last year Mascoe split time with Birchler, the Gators did it with Leak and Tebow, Tebow and Newton, Trask and Jones.  They expect the same with Jones and Richardson.  Secondly, you posted the Sentinel article which I told you I had read.  In the article it clearly states his family moved into the DP zone.  All legal and by the book.   I am against illegal recruiting, have stated that position on this forum several times.  Don't know what your fixation is on this particular transfer that you keep putting the one kid down and defending the other one's right to keep his job.  I am not their coach, don't know much about either player, not rooting for one over the other,  but I do know it is the coaches decision on who will start.  And as I stated before, Coach Wells will probably start the one that gives him the best chance to win.  May the best man win.  Remember, I am an old timer so I believe in meritocracy regardless of race, religion, family affiliaton or any other reason.

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10 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Wrong again.  Our school routinely plays backups for experience, reward them for their work, etc.. including the QB's.  Last year Mascoe split time with Birchler, the Gators did it with Leak and Tebow, Tebow and Newton, Trask and Jones.  They expect the same with Jones and Richardson.  Secondly, you posted the Sentinel article which I told you I had read.  In the article it clearly states his family moved into the DP zone.  All legal and by the book.   I am against illegal recruiting, have stated that position on this forum several times.  Don't know what your fixation is on this particular transfer that you keep putting the one kid down and defending the other one's right to keep his job.  I am not their coach, don't know much about either player, not rooting for one over the other,  but I do know it is the coaches decision on who will start.  And as I stated before, Coach Wells will probably start the one that gives him the best chance to win.  May the best man win.  Remember, I am an old timer so I believe in meritocracy regardless of race, religion, family affiliaton or any other reason.

I'm not fixated on the kid, nor did I introduce his transfer into the conversation. I saw the article in the Orlando Sentinel and posted it forward because it dealt with this discussion. I have no rooting interest in Dr Phillips football, but I do follow HS football in the Orlando area. I do have a strong opinion on recruiting and trying to maintain integrity in athletics, particularly in HS and youth sports. For many kids playing sports, the coach may be the only male role model they interface with on a consistent basis. I think most coaches do a great job of filling that missing piece in the kids' lives. I don't think it's good when a few coaches demonstrate through their actions that the rules are meant to be bent or disregarded; that trait I think I developed from my time in the military many decades ago.

Remember, I am an old timer so I believe in meritocracy regardless of race, religion, family affiliaton or any other reason.

I too am an old timer enjoying my retirement years. A big part of that enjoyment is playing golf and watching football, especially HS football games. I too believe that in life merit is extremely important, but it's not everything. Transitioning through HS is a total learning experience and it goes far beyond "winning" because there can only be one winner in any event; everyone else shouldn't be meant to feel that they're a loser. Coaches at the HS level are educators and that goes far beyond just teaching a kid how to play football. The kid probably won't be a football player all his life, but hopefully he'll have integrity and be honest and fair as he goes through life.

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My take on how transfers affect success, be it for public or private schools is a matter of quality, more so than quantity.  I agree most good programs, ours included do attract good players from nearby schools as they not only want to play on a winning team but also additional exposure.  It usually only involves a player or two but more importantly they are usually a 2 or 3 star recruit that is under the radar at his home school.  Whereas STA and those national programs not only get more transfers but they are of higher caliber (4 & 5 star).  They already have excellent rosters but they improve their depth so key injuries don't affect their success as it would a school like ours.  That is why we were hoping our school would cross the 2600 threshold so we could go against 8A schools where we may have a chance at a state title.   We knew after 2 losses in state championships against Aquinas that it wasn't a level playing field and needed to get into a different classification.  So I view it as the difference in recruiting success of the Gators vs the Tide.  We don't seek out players to transfer in where in my view the schools that are loaded year after year and nationally ranked all do it be it private or public.  Most public schools will get the right talent pool once every 10-15 years or so to compete for a championship, so they could only maintain that level of excellence thru recruiting which is illegal.

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1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:

My take on how transfers affect success, be it for public or private schools is a matter of quality, more so than quantity.  I agree most good programs, ours included do attract good players from nearby schools as they not only want to play on a winning team but also additional exposure.  It usually only involves a player or two but more importantly they are usually a 2 or 3 star recruit that is under the radar at his home school.  Whereas STA and those national programs not only get more transfers but they are of higher caliber (4 & 5 star).  They already have excellent rosters but they improve their depth so key injuries don't affect their success as it would a school like ours.  That is why we were hoping our school would cross the 2600 threshold so we could go against 8A schools where we may have a chance at a state title.   We knew after 2 losses in state championships against Aquinas that it wasn't a level playing field and needed to get into a different classification.  So I view it as the difference in recruiting success of the Gators vs the Tide.  We don't seek out players to transfer in where in my view the schools that are loaded year after year and nationally ranked all do it be it private or public.  Most public schools will get the right talent pool once every 10-15 years or so to compete for a championship, so they could only maintain that level of excellence thru recruiting which is illegal.

This year aside STA doesn't actually get that many transfers 

 

There are several publics I could name in Broward and Dade alone that easily get more every year 

 

Heck there are publics in Orlando, Tampa, and Jacksonville that get more than STA and that's not even diving into other privates in other metros in the state 

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I said STA AND the nationally ranked programs which are obviously public schools in Dade and Broward counties.  Not singling out the one as the only culprit, just that it affected us as a 7A school.  I emphasized it happens in both public and private, but those publics in those counties were not in our classification.  Point is when any of them get these recruits they tend to be top D1 talent.  

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On 7/3/2021 at 2:46 PM, HornetFan said:

Something doesn't seem right; if DP had a vacant spot at QB, I could see it, but somehow this appears to have more to it, at least to me, I keep thinking that "R" word, especially after seeing DP in the Spring Jamboree..

Quick question:  did Patti play in the Spring Jamboree?  Chris Hayes' article mentioned that Patti also plays lacrosse, which is a spring sport.   If DP had any success in lacrosse this year, their season may have run over into spring football, causing Patti to miss spring practices.  Even if Patti played in the spring game, he may not have had much practice (and probably wasn't doing much 7 on 7 leading up to that game). 

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Measurables.  n.  The thing that lazy coaches can hide behind; a filter used by coaches of all sports.  B)

All kidding aside, measurables don't make the player.  But, if you're a college coach (of any sport) with a limited number of scholarships/roster sports available to you, who are you more likely to take a chance on -- the kid that checks off all the boxes, in terms of size and speed, or the kid who doesn't?    Don't get me wrong; I love stories about kids who overcome their predetermined genetic shortcomings and eventually excel on the field or the court.   But I also understand that it's awfully tough for a coach to look through hours and hours of recruiting tapes and film trying to find that diamond in the rough.   

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35 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Quick question:  did Patti play in the Spring Jamboree?  Chris Hayes' article mentioned that Patti also plays lacrosse, which is a spring sport.   If DP had any success in lacrosse this year, their season may have run over into spring football, causing Patti to miss spring practices.  Even if Patti played in the spring game, he may not have had much practice (and probably wasn't doing much 7 on 7 leading up to that game). 

Patti played in the Spring Jamboree and with the exception of one good long pass, his other passes were mostly way off target. He was playing against two good defenses in Apopka and Winter Park, but appeared to struggle with most passes downfield. This was my first time seeing him; he looked like maybe 5'9" tall at most. He was least impressive of the 3 QB's that night.

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31 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Measurables.  n.  The thing that lazy coaches can hide behind; a filter used by coaches of all sports.  B)

All kidding aside, measurables don't make the player.  But, if you're a college coach (of any sport) with a limited number of scholarships/roster sports available to you, who are you more likely to take a chance on -- the kid that checks off all the boxes, in terms of size and speed, or the kid who doesn't?    Don't get me wrong; I love stories about kids who overcome their predetermined genetic shortcomings and eventually excel on the field or the court.   But I also understand that it's awfully tough for a coach to look through hours and hours of recruiting tapes and film trying to find that diamond in the rough.   

The Elite 11 QB competition has been reported in on-line articles this past week. I believe they started with over 20 QB's and whittle that down to 11 for their final rankings. Of the many kids that I saw mentioned in the articles, I don't think there was a single QB under 6'1". There has to be a good reason for that. OL's and DL's are now routinely 6'3" and above; short QB's have a difficult time seeing their receivers downfield over tall linemen; with rare exceptions, their offenses become one-dimensional. 

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1 hour ago, HornetFan said:

The Elite 11 QB competition has been reported in on-line articles this past week. I believe they started with over 20 QB's and whittle that down to 11 for their final rankings. Of the many kids that I saw mentioned in the articles, I don't think there was a single QB under 6'1". There has to be a good reason for that. OL's and DL's are now routinely 6'3" and above; short QB's have a difficult time seeing their receivers downfield over tall linemen; with rare exceptions, their offenses become one-dimensional. 

Yeah the reason is the same people who select for Elite 11 are the same ones who do the prospect rankings and the prospect rankings have more to do with measurable aspects like height than real football ability 

 

If they selected a player who doesn't end up signing FBS they make their own rankings look bad, but I guarantee you there are better throwers and HIGH SCHOOL QBs than the ones who get selected for elite 11 

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2 hours ago, Perspective said:

Quick question:  did Patti play in the Spring Jamboree?  Chris Hayes' article mentioned that Patti also plays lacrosse, which is a spring sport.   If DP had any success in lacrosse this year, their season may have run over into spring football, causing Patti to miss spring practices.  Even if Patti played in the spring game, he may not have had much practice (and probably wasn't doing much 7 on 7 leading up to that game). 

Jo Jo Patti did play in the spring game. He had some success running the ball and did throw an accurate, long pass that set up DP's only touchdown against Apopka inside the dying moments of the second quarter. 

Jo Jo has always had a strong arm, but at times his passes have been a bit wayward. He is a quick, reasonably fast runner. To me, depending on the school he attends, I could see him playing receiver or running/fullback at the next level as much as I could see him at QB. 

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Something has to give as the Sentinel reporter even stated that Patti would be more compatible in the slot and after 2 years on the job he really hasn't lived up to the coaches expectations.  Would he just put that out there on his own or did he get inside information from the team?

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46 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Something has to give as the Sentinel reporter even stated that Patti would be more compatible in the slot and after 2 years on the job he really hasn't lived up to the coaches expectations.  Would he just put that out there on his own or did he get inside information from the team?

This is a quote from the article:  "A perennial football powerhouse, Dr. Phillips was searching for a current roster player to step up and take solid control of the offense and the QB position. Senior quarterback Joe Joe Patti, who is also a lacrosse standout, struggled a bit in the quarterback role the past two seasons and will likely switch to slot receiver."

This quote definitely gives me the impression that Hayes (the reporter) has been talking with someone on the DP staff, if not the head coach himself. 

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That has been my point all along, this kid seemed to be the main cog in the offense at Lyman so why would he transfer to DP to play the slot?  His family picked up and moved into the DP zone to play for them, to give their son this opportunity.  All this other nonsense about his height, or this or that made no sense looking at the facts that we do know.  I guess we will know for sure once the season starts.

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1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:

Something has to give as the Sentinel reporter even stated that Patti would be more compatible in the slot and after 2 years on the job he really hasn't lived up to the coaches expectations.  Would he just put that out there on his own or did he get inside information from the team?

The writer may have attended the Spring Jamboree and observed it with his own eyes. DP did not look good on either side of the ball in the Jamboree[ it wasn't just Patti. They have a difficult schedule. In their first 7 games, they will be favored over Celebration and possibly Timber Creek. DP can easily lose 5 or 6 games this season. 

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2 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

That has been my point all along, this kid seemed to be the main cog in the offense at Lyman so why would he transfer to DP to play the slot?  His family picked up and moved into the DP zone to play for them, to give their son this opportunity.  All this other nonsense about his height, or this or that made no sense looking at the facts that we do know.  I guess we will know for sure once the season starts.

The true test will be facing strong Jones and Apopka teams in weeks 1 and 3. The level of competition he will face this season is far better than he faced at Lyman last year. With Osceola and West Orange in their district, I would be surprised if DP even sniffs the playoffs this season. I wish the kid well, but I think he picked the wrong destination. With his running ability, I think he would have been a better fit at Apopka if he had made the move in January or before Andrew McClain transferred there from Seminole. 

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Wouldn't the Patti kid be playing that same schedule?  Again, a non sensical argument to make why not to make the switch.  Plus now you think DP has a tough schedule when on earlier threads when I made that argument comparing it to WP's you disagreed.  Gotta make up your mind one way or the other.

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