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2021 Transfer Thread


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1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

That is a complete myth and @Proseteye already stated the reason it is 

 

any metro public has a huge advantage over rural schools even before the rule change because they could use someone else's address and attend any school in a large city 

True, those are the 10% and eventually would get caught.  Once one school had to pony up the money (2011), the others are on notice and would think twice about continuing the practice.  ie.  your favorite public (Lee).  Instead, FHSAA caved rather than continue to make examples of those schools who most can identify as being the culprits.  The example given by @Proseteye is the definition of the cheater.  Most schools are not and that is no myth.

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3 hours ago, Jags904 said:

And any public to private move should be a year without extracurriculars. That’s an easy way to stop schools from getting 40+ transfers in 3 years. 

And any public to private move should be a year without extracurriculars.

I don't think you could legally enforce that provision. If a parent is unhappy with the academics or other conditions in their local zoned school, they have the right to place their child in private school without restrictions. That is why you should have two separate classifications for interscholastic sports at private schools; one for large private schools and one for small private schools. If a public school wants to play them and both coaches agree to a game, that should be counted as a non-District game for both schools. There are no prescribed school zones for private schools; you can attend as long as you have the means to meet their entrance and tuition requirements. Let them play each other.

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1 hour ago, HornetFan said:

And any public to private move should be a year without extracurriculars.

I don't think you could legally enforce that provision. If a parent is unhappy with the academics or other conditions in their local zoned school, they have the right to place their child in private school without restrictions. That is why you should have two separate classifications for interscholastic sports at private schools; one for large private schools and one for small private schools. If a public school wants to play them and both coaches agree to a game, that should be counted as a non-District game for both schools. There are no prescribed school zones for private schools; you can attend as long as you have the means to meet their entrance and tuition requirements. Let them play each other.

Hornet, just following up on the HF Proposal with a couple of questions:

1.  If you break the public schools and private schools into two separate classifications, as you have proposed, would you then allow private schools to 'actively recruit' students (be they incoming 9th graders or potential transfers)?

2.  Would you allow private schools to offer 'scholarships' (full or partial) to athletes who attend the schools?

Currently, both of the above are prohibited by the FHSAA.  Would this change if you put all the privates into their own classification?  

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2 hours ago, Perspective said:

Hornet, just following up on the HF Proposal with a couple of questions:

1.  If you break the public schools and private schools into two separate classifications, as you have proposed, would you then allow private schools to 'actively recruit' students (be they incoming 9th graders or potential transfers)?

2.  Would you allow private schools to offer 'scholarships' (full or partial) to athletes who attend the schools?

Currently, both of the above are prohibited by the FHSAA.  Would this change if you put all the privates into their own classification?  

1. Though I don't like schools poaching star players from neighboring schools, I am a realist and I know it happens today. I have seen kids bounce back and forth from public to private and then back to public, usually for athletic reasons. If the private schools have their own classifications and separate state championships, they could form a governing entity of their own, say the FPHSAA. I don't think you can legally prevent a kid from transferring to or from a private school and participating in extracurricular activities, including sports. To deny a private school, which is a private business, the opportunity to grow their enrollment by soliciting new students would probably be illegal. We may not like it, but yes, private schools could recruit. The saving grace is that there are not that many private schools that hundreds of players would be poached each year. 

2.  The state is currently giving vouchers to students that want to attend private schools. Partial scholarships are already being utilized at private schools to make a private school education available to most kids. In many cases where parents are financially able to pay tuition, scholarships would not be an issue. You can't apply the same regulations to private schools as you do to taxpayer funded public schools. This is why I say 'Give them their own leagues".

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1 hour ago, HornetFan said:

1. Though I don't like schools poaching star players from neighboring schools, I am a realist and I know it happens today. I have seen kids bounce back and forth from public to private and then back to public, usually for athletic reasons. If the private schools have their own classifications and separate state championships, they could form a governing entity of their own, say the FPHSAA. I don't think you can legally prevent a kid from transferring to or from a private school and participating in extracurricular activities, including sports. To deny a private school, which is a private business, the opportunity to grow their enrollment by soliciting new students would probably be illegal. We may not like it, but yes, private schools could recruit. The saving grace is that there are not that many private schools that hundreds of players would be poached each year. 

2.  The state is currently giving vouchers to students that want to attend private schools. Partial scholarships are already being utilized at private schools to make a private school education available to most kids. In many cases where parents are financially able to pay tuition, scholarships would not be an issue. You can't apply the same regulations to private schools as you do to taxpayer funded public schools. This is why I say 'Give them their own leagues".

The vouchers are a complete joke. I’m paying taxes to pay for a kid to go to our public school and then use more of my taxes for that kid to instead go to a private school…? That makes no sense.

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1 hour ago, Jags904 said:

The vouchers are a complete joke. I’m paying taxes to pay for a kid to go to our public school and then use more of my taxes for that kid to instead go to a private school…? That makes no sense.

It makes about as much sense as paying school taxes based upon the value of my home so kids that live in my county can attend our public schools, and then a kid that doesn't live in my town or county transfers in to our school system to which his parents pay no taxes and I and my neighbors have to pay to educate this kid so he can play football. it places the financial burden of educating this kid on taxpayers in my County. As I understand the voucher system, it is state run so all taxpayers in the state share in paying for those vouchers. I'm bothered more by the fact that kids are left behind in schools that are underperforming academically. 

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1 hour ago, HornetFan said:

It makes about as much sense as paying school taxes based upon the value of my home so kids that live in my county can attend our public schools, and then a kid that doesn't live in my town or county transfers in to our school system to which his parents pay no taxes and I and my neighbors have to pay to educate this kid so he can play football. it places the financial burden of educating this kid on taxpayers in my County. As I understand the voucher system, it is state run so all taxpayers in the state share in paying for those vouchers. I'm bothered more by the fact that kids are left behind in schools that are underperforming academically. 

I, too, am bothered by the fact that kids are being left behind in underperforming schools. The current open enrollment system is not the fix for it nor do I have the answer haha I just am frustrated with our educational system as a whole. 

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38 minutes ago, Jags904 said:

I, too, am bothered by the fact that kids are being left behind in underperforming schools. The current open enrollment system is not the fix for it nor do I have the answer haha I just am frustrated with our educational system as a whole. 

That my friend is the greatest tragedy in this entire discussion, not a kid transferring to play football.  Our failure as a community to really see what is happening to our public schools and letting them go to ---- in a hand basket.

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I've never have had issue with the idea of school choice or with vouchers for academic reasons but as we see, the policies in place have solved nothing.  In my opinion the real issue is government bureaucracy and the fact that local school boards haven't much say at all when it comes to curriculum.

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Separating publics and privates:  The vast majority of private schools are small. Some have even formed their own leagues like SSAC, etc. Class 2A is nearly all private schools and class 3A is majority private schools. So what would you do with the larger private schools? There just isn't that many that could make a class. 

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1 hour ago, Hwy17 said:

Separating publics and privates:  The vast majority of private schools are small. Some have even formed their own leagues like SSAC, etc. Class 2A is nearly all private schools and class 3A is majority private schools. So what would you do with the larger private schools? There just isn't that many that could make a class. 

One possibility would be a super class with the powerhouse privates and select publics that opt in. Not sure I like the idea, but it would be a solution.

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18 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

One possibility would be a super class with the powerhouse privates and select publics that opt in. Not sure I like the idea, but it would be a solution.

I don't like that idea. Here's why: Over the last few years (since 2012) I have observed a few things; a small handful of super-teams not only dominating their respective classes but doing so at the expense of those that traditionally haven't been competitive. Likewise, once proud and competitive programs have gotten worse; like Hallandale or Haines City for example.  

We've talked about how the top teams in Colorado come to Florida to play or weaker teams. Colorado is a state where recruiting is legal and there are only a few dominant programs.  I'm afraid Florida is quickly becoming the same.  

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1 hour ago, Hwy17 said:

I don't like that idea. Here's why: Over the last few years (since 2012) I have observed a few things; a small handful of super-teams not only dominating their respective classes but doing so at the expense of those that traditionally haven't been competitive. Likewise, once proud and competitive programs have gotten worse; like Hallandale or Haines City for example.  

We've talked about how the top teams in Colorado come to Florida to play or weaker teams. Colorado is a state where recruiting is legal and there are only a few dominant programs.  I'm afraid Florida is quickly becoming the same.  

Understood. But if the top teams went to a super class, then regular schools would become competitive again. And, that may well lead to some of their talent staying home, since a trip for a championship game would become more realistic. Like I said, I am not sure I like the idea, but I can see were there could be some benefits to it. 

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2 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

One possibility would be a super class with the powerhouse privates and select publics that opt in. Not sure I like the idea, but it would be a solution.

I agree, enrollment size doesn't matter if transfer rules are the same for all privates(no restrictions).  TCA is more competitive to STA than 98% of the 7A publics, so let them form a league with a couple of divisions.  

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25 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Understood. But if the top teams went to a super class, then regular schools would become competitive again. And, that may well lead to some of their talent staying home, since a trip for a championship game would become more realistic. Like I said, I am not sure I like the idea, but I can see were there could be some benefits to it. 

Not really. How are you going to stop the privates from continuing to recruit from the Public Schools which makes many of the public schools non competitive now. Just because they are in their own separate Division doesn't mean they will not recruit from anywhere. Also, many students, that happen to be in sports, transfer to private schools for primarily academic reasons and sometimes for a different culture. Nothing can mitigate that and nothing should. 

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16 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

I agree, enrollment size doesn't matter if transfer rules are the same for all privates(no restrictions).  TCA is more competitive to STA than 98% of the 7A publics, so let them form a league with a couple of divisions.  

So who goes in that league?  You got STA, AHP, Jesuit, Cardinal Gibbons, TCA, maybe Belen & Columbus.  Bolles and Pace aren't what they use to be. Bishop Moore is decent but not on the level as those above. At best you might have 10 top privates in the upper group.

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25 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Understood. But if the top teams went to a super class, then regular schools would become competitive again. And, that may well lead to some of their talent staying home, since a trip for a championship game would become more realistic. Like I said, I am not sure I like the idea, but I can see were there could be some benefits to it. 

If for no other reason, that’s a great reason to start dividing the elite from the “rest”.  Imagine teams like Plant City,  Fort Myers, Pine Forrest, McArthur, Palm Bch Gardens, Vanguard etc, going to camp knowing they have a chance for a state championship?????

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4 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

So who goes in that league?  You got STA, AHP, Jesuit, Cardinal Gibbons, TCA, maybe Belen & Columbus.  Bolles and Pace aren't what they use to be. Bishop Moore is decent but not on the level as those above. At best you might have 10 top privates in the upper group.

That looks about right so they could structure their own playoff system with a group like that and pickup other regular season games against publics that want the challenge;  MNW, Central, Vero, Edgewater, Venice, etc..

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12 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

Not really. How are you going to stop the privates from continuing to recruit from the Public Schools which makes many of the public schools non competitive now. Just because they are in their own separate Division doesn't mean they will not recruit from anywhere. Also, many students, that happen to be in sports, transfer to private schools for primarily academic reasons and sometimes for a different culture. Nothing can mitigate that and nothing should. 

That is all possible, but is there a chance a kid would stay home if he knows they have the ability to win in the playoffs and bring glory to his hometown school.  Hey, I am sure there are better ideas out there and the status quo is only going to get worse.  Especially if they allow HS kids to start participating in NIL rule like in college; someone here said jokingly, the Quinn Evers kid leaving and missing his senior prom??  I responded, for six figures heck yes.  Even though he was quoted that the decision wasn't financial, he just signed deal with beverage company for undisclosed amount.  I  learned a long time when someone tells you it isn't about the money, IT IS ABOUT THE MONEY!!

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4 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

Separating publics and privates:  The vast majority of private schools are small. Some have even formed their own leagues like SSAC, etc. Class 2A is nearly all private schools and class 3A is majority private schools. So what would you do with the larger private schools? There just isn't that many that could make a class. 

I realize that there are far fewer large private schools than there are small schools. When I look at the current existing Districts, most appear to have 4 to 5 schools in each District. From there, it goes up to Regions. If you look at the Orlando metro area, the metro area that I am most familiar with, It would be possible to include Bishop Moore, Lake Highland Prep, Trinity Prep, Orangewood Christian, and/or Orangewood Christian in one district. You probably have similar possibilities in Tampa, Miami, and Jacksonville. It would be up to the private schools to create their own organization. If they elected to stay in the FHSAA and participate in FHSAA districts, they would have to elect to abide by transfer policies of the FHSAA, including academic requirements and possibly sitting out a year.

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4 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

That is all possible, but is there a chance a kid would stay home if he knows they have the ability to win in the playoffs and bring glory to his hometown school.  Hey, I am sure there are better ideas out there and the status quo is only going to get worse.  Especially if they allow HS kids to start participating in NIL rule like in college; someone here said jokingly, the Quinn Evers kid leaving and missing his senior prom??  I responded, for six figures heck yes.  Even though he was quoted that the decision wasn't financial, he just signed deal with beverage company for undisclosed amount.  I  learned a long time when someone tells you it isn't about the money, IT IS ABOUT THE MONEY!!

I think that this NIL nonsense for high school students is beyond lunacy kind of like the 300+ pound sophomore who is on the OL for many of these HS teams. Very sad what HS football has become. 

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5 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

I think that this NIL nonsense for high school students is beyond lunacy kind of like the 300+ pound sophomore who is on the OL for many of these HS teams. Very sad what HS football has become. 

That was my opposition for this in college because the reasons given for justification would also apply to HS kids or even those in middle school identified as ELITE palyers.

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10 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

I realize that there are far fewer large private schools than there are small schools. When I look at the current existing Districts, most appear to have 4 to 5 schools in each District. From there, it goes up to Regions. If you look at the Orlando metro area, the metro area that I am most familiar with, It would be possible to include Bishop Moore, Lake Highland Prep, Trinity Prep, Orangewood Christian, and/or Orangewood Christian in one district. You probably have similar possibilities in Tampa, Miami, and Jacksonville. It would be up to the private schools to create their own organization. If they elected to stay in the FHSAA and participate in FHSAA districts, they would have to elect to abide by transfer policies of the FHSAA, including academic requirements and possibly sitting out a year.

I don't think the privates would go along with it. 

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