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2021-2022 Football Schedules


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1 hour ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

Well, that’s a very interesting analysis. Especially considering that Venice and Osceola didn’t even play each other last season. :mellow: Maybe Brown transferred to Venice because they are more well-coached than Riverview?

I don't know if we ever have played Venice, not recently and definitely not last year.  All respect to them as they have consistently fielded excellent teams for decades.

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17 hours ago, skyway said:

It's been many, many years since Venice has fielded a team that wasn't better than the 2000 team. That was a Cinderella team that had a knack for winning close games, including a four-point win over a Lakeland team playing with a young backup QB. The state title game was an outlier game, sort of like Florida over OSU in the 2006 title game. Dwyer shit the bed.

You are confusing star power with good team. That's a mistake. The 2000 Venice team took out: Lakeland which had been on a 35 game winning streak; Manatee; and Ely at their place, on their way to state. Yes, only two kids from that team got D1 scholarships, both of them running backs, and only one of the two got much playing time in college (the other got a masters in Engineering, so his time was not wasted). 

That Venice team was very good, largely homegrown and had true grit. I would take them over many, many teams today that are loaded with 3 to 5 star players. 

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12 hours ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

Well, that’s a very interesting analysis. Especially considering that Venice and Osceola didn’t even play each other last season. :mellow: Maybe Brown transferred to Venice because they are more well-coached than Riverview?

You're correct; it was Riverview that lost to Osceola, with Brown at QB for Riverview. 

"Maybe Brown transferred to Venice because they are more well-coached than Riverview?" Thank God that he didn't transfer for better academic opportunities. :lol:

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1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:

You are confusing star power with good team. That's a mistake. The 2000 Venice team took out: Lakeland which had been on a 35 game winning streak; Manatee; and Ely at their place, on their way to state. Yes, only two kids from that team got D1 scholarships, both of them running backs, and only one of the two got much playing time in college (the other got a masters in Engineering, so his time was not wasted). 

That Venice team was very good, largely homegrown and had true grit. I would take them over many, many teams today that are loaded with 3 to 5 star players. 

It was a nice season for them, no doubt. Part of my claim is based on the fact that high school football has changed a good bit since then. Back then, that was basically Venice's kids playing. Now, we've got kids from all over coming to Venice, as happens at schools all over the state. All of the state championship caliber teams (Venice has been that, though not within the class it played in. 8A and one or two other classes was winnable most every year for them if they were in it) of today are better than those from 20+ years ago. This hurts to say since I was in high school over 25 years ago, lol. It's not that players or coaching is markedly better-though I do think offensive coordination and the passing game is improved- but just that we see much denser concentrations of talent at a smaller number of schools. That's why I stand by my claim that 2018 Lakeland was better than their national championship teams. The STA team they beat was better, too. The average teams are probably worse now for the same reason.

Who would have thought Venice would ever be able to poach Sarasota Riverview's QB after a playoff season for Riverview? Riverview has been a national powerhouse in my time of following H.S. football closely!

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43 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

You're correct; it was Riverview that lost to Osceola, with Brown at QB for Riverview. 

"Maybe Brown transferred to Venice because they are more well-coached than Riverview?" Thank God that he didn't transfer for better academic opportunities. :lol:

That Riverview team was very well coached last year and as I stated earlier we were fortunate to get a win as our team was very young.  Sure evidence of coaching is these kids never quit and fought like hell to the very end.  Whatever their reasons, Venice has picked up 2 very good players from that team.

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47 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

You're correct; it was Riverview that lost to Osceola, with Brown at QB for Riverview. 

"Maybe Brown transferred to Venice because they are more well-coached than Riverview?" Thank God that he didn't transfer for better academic opportunities. :lol:

I don’t know why you are acting like this, but it’s really frustrating to see you fail at using basic logic here, HornetFan. Brown almost certainly transferred to Venice because they have much better coaching and tradition at Venice than they do at Riverview. Venice returns their most veteran team since the 2017 run and has found themselves in a position where they do not have to face Saint Thomas Aquinas in the playoffs. The stars have aligned almost perfectly for Venice to win another state championship.  These factors would incentivize any player to transfer, regardless of whether or not they were succeeding with another team. 

Furthermore, I would love to see Osceola or Seminole play Aquinas year-in, year-out, and win more than two games over a five year period. You act as if Venice has little chance at beating these Central Florida teams, yet they consistently play a tougher schedule than them and have a squad that returns nearly every skill player from the prior season. They will certainly make some noise in 8A, I can promise you that. 

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15 minutes ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

I don’t know why you are acting like this, but it’s really frustrating to see you fail at using basic logic here, HornetFan. Brown almost certainly transferred to Venice because they have much better coaching and tradition at Venice than they do at Riverview. Venice returns their most veteran team since the 2017 run and has found themselves in a position where they do not have to face Saint Thomas Aquinas in the playoffs. The stars have aligned almost perfectly for Venice to win another state championship.  These factors would incentivize any player to transfer, regardless of whether or not they were succeeding with another team. 

Furthermore, I would love to see Osceola or Seminole play Aquinas year-in, year-out, and win more than two games over a five year period. You act as if Venice has little chance at beating these Central Florida teams, yet they consistently play a tougher schedule than them and have a squad that returns nearly every skill player from the prior season. They will certainly make some noise in 8A, I can promise you that. 

Facts them people dnt want that smoke we just gone sit back and enjoy it lol

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1 hour ago, skyway said:

It was a nice season for them, no doubt. Part of my claim is based on the fact that high school football has changed a good bit since then. Back then, that was basically Venice's kids playing. Now, we've got kids from all over coming to Venice, as happens at schools all over the state. All of the state championship caliber teams (Venice has been that, though not within the class it played in. 8A and one or two other classes was winnable most every year for them if they were in it) of today are better than those from 20+ years ago. This hurts to say since I was in high school over 25 years ago, lol. It's not that players or coaching is markedly better-though I do think offensive coordination and the passing game is improved- but just that we see much denser concentrations of talent at a smaller number of schools. That's why I stand by my claim that 2018 Lakeland was better than their national championship teams. The STA team they beat was better, too. The average teams are probably worse now for the same reason.

Who would have thought Venice would ever be able to poach Sarasota Riverview's QB after a playoff season for Riverview? Riverview has been a national powerhouse in my time of following H.S. football closely!

Yes, it has. And Venice has been Exhibit A for that. But the 2000 team had a very difficult path to the 5A title game, overcame the obstacles it faced, and blew out the opponent in dominating fashion at Florida Field. By those standards, that was a very good high school team that would have been in the mix anytime between 1996 and 2006. For you to essentially malign them seems unfair from where I stand. 

I respect what Venice has on its roster this year. However, I think they will be tested severely on their path to state. If they win the whole thing, more power to them. But I am quite sure it will not be a romp. 

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48 minutes ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

I don’t know why you are acting like this, but it’s really frustrating to see you fail at using basic logic here, HornetFan. Brown almost certainly transferred to Venice because they have much better coaching and tradition at Venice than they do at Riverview. 

 

How old are you?

Is Venice a better program today? Yes they

But you need to do some research and get a little more educated when using the "Tradition" word. I promise you this isn't Tampa Riverview.

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4 minutes ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

I don’t know why you are acting like this, but it’s really frustrating to see you fail at using basic logic here, HornetFan. Brown almost certainly transferred to Venice because they have much better coaching and tradition at Venice than they do at Riverview. Venice returns their most veteran team since the 2017 run and has found themselves in a position where they do not have to face Saint Thomas Aquinas in the playoffs. The stars have aligned almost perfectly for Venice to win another state championship.  These factors would incentivize any player to transfer, regardless of whether or not they were succeeding with another team. 

Furthermore, I would love to see Osceola or Seminole play Aquinas year-in, year-out, and win more than two games over a five year period. You act as if Venice has little chance at beating these Central Florida teams, yet they consistently play a tougher schedule than them and have a squad that returns nearly every skill player from the prior season. They will certainly make some noise in 8A, I can promise you that. 

As for Osceola, the only 7A team that has shown any type of success versus STA is Lakeland not Venice.  And we had to consistently try to get by them before we had a crack at STA in the finals.  The past is the past and yes we like our chances better in 8A just like Venice does.

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42 minutes ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

 Brown almost certainly transferred to Venice because they have much better coaching and tradition at Venice than they do at Riverview. Venice returns their most veteran team since the 2017 run and has found themselves in a position where they do not have to face Saint Thomas Aquinas in the playoffs. The stars have aligned almost perfectly for Venice to win another state championship.  These factors would incentivize any player to transfer, regardless of whether or not they were succeeding with another team. 

 

Personally, I would have more respect for a kid who stays with his team and the guys he went to battle with all last season (and perhaps even grew up with) than a kid who leaves his teammates behind in search of a gold medallion. 

I saw this kid play once last year.   I was impressed.  I was also impressed with Riverview's coaching staff.  But I also know this kid fits the prototype QB that Venice likes to have:  height, good mobility and a strong arm.  I really don't know how Venice's head coach and/or QB coach compares to Riverview's head coach and/or QB coach.  And, when you think about it, it would really be impossible for a kid (or his parent) to be able to compare the two unless he's been talking to someone he shouldn't be talking to. 

But, if I'm a college coach, here's what I just learned about the kid:  he has just demonstrated a willingness to pack and go where the grass appears to be greener.  If it comes down to offering this kid or offering another kid, all things being equal, I'm going to go with the kid who has demonstrated more loyalty.   The Kyle Trask kind of kid.  Not the kid that's going to enter the portal because he sees something that looks a little prettier walking down the halls of some other school.

Look, I totally get it when a high school kid sees the depth chart and realizes that he's never going to beat out the starting QB and knows he has the talent to get a scholarship if he can only show his ability on the field.   I understand it when that kid transfers.   But this kid was already the starting QB and he was playing for a team that had success last year and likely will have success this year.   

Not throwing shade on anyone (especially anyone on this board), but now I'm kind of hoping that Riverview and Venice end up playing each other in the playoffs and that Riverview gets the W.  :o

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Excellent point Perspective, that's why they call you that right?  Our Birchler kid was in the same spot behind Mascoe as Trask was behind D'Eriq King.  Mascoe has decommitted from FSU and re-opened his recruitment where Birchler can obviously start on alot of other local teams.  I can't blame him for trying to put some game film together for a chance at a college scholarship somewhere.  I do think he is that good.  

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1 hour ago, LakelandGator said:

How old are you?

Is Venice a better program today? Yes they

But you need to do some research and get a little more educated when using the "Tradition" word. I promise you this isn't Tampa Riverview.

I know what tradition means. They don’t have a tradition of winning states, but they consistently make the playoffs and over the past several seasons have made deep runs. It’s not anyone’s fault that STA is a beast. But you have to at least understand why kids want to come to Venice. They are a very good team, and I don’t see why a kid should put themselves in a position where they don’t have the tools they need to succeed.

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2 hours ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

I don’t know why you are acting like this, but it’s really frustrating to see you fail at using basic logic here, HornetFan. Brown almost certainly transferred to Venice because they have much better coaching and tradition at Venice than they do at Riverview. Venice returns their most veteran team since the 2017 run and has found themselves in a position where they do not have to face Saint Thomas Aquinas in the playoffs. The stars have aligned almost perfectly for Venice to win another state championship.  These factors would incentivize any player to transfer, regardless of whether or not they were succeeding with another team. 

Furthermore, I would love to see Osceola or Seminole play Aquinas year-in, year-out, and win more than two games over a five year period. You act as if Venice has little chance at beating these Central Florida teams, yet they consistently play a tougher schedule than them and have a squad that returns nearly every skill player from the prior season. They will certainly make some noise in 8A, I can promise you that. 

"Brown almost certainly transferred to Venice because they have much better coaching and tradition at Venice than they do at Riverview"

It's been a while since I lived in the Tampa Bay area (mid-80's to mid-90's), but from what I remember from that time period is that as far as tradition goes, Sarasota Riverview and Bradenton Manatee were the best HS football teams from Tampa Bay south on the west coast. I do believe in tradition and I don't consider it great tradition at the high school level to import players from other areas to accomplish something you can't accomplish with local talent. I'm not a proponent of HS kids going outside their zoned public school districts for athletic purposes only. 

"Furthermore, I would love to see Osceola or Seminole play Aquinas year-in, year-out, and win more than two games over a five year period."

As STA plays in 7A, there's no chance Seminole and Osceola, both 8A, will see them in the playoffs this year. However, another Central Florida team, Edgewater, has met STA in the playoffs the past couple of years and though unsuccessful in winning either game, outplayed STA for much of both games. 

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4 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

"Brown almost certainly transferred to Venice because they have much better coaching and tradition at Venice than they do at Riverview"

It's been a while since I lived in the Tampa Bay area (mid-80's to mid-90's), but from what I remember from that time period is that as far as tradition goes, Sarasota Riverview and Bradenton Manatee were the best HS football teams from Tampa Bay south on the west coast. I do believe in tradition and I don't consider it great tradition at the high school level to import players from other areas to accomplish something you can't accomplish with local talent. I'm not a proponent of HS kids going outside their zoned public school districts for athletic purposes only. 

"Furthermore, I would love to see Osceola or Seminole play Aquinas year-in, year-out, and win more than two games over a five year period."

As STA plays in 7A, there's no chance Seminole and Osceola, both 8A, will see them in the playoffs this year. However, another Central Florida team, Edgewater, has met STA in the playoffs the past couple of years and though unsuccessful in winning either game, outplayed STA for much of both games. 

I find it Interesting how you say you’re a fan of traditional football and complain about Venice getting transfers, but you have no qualms about how IMG operates. Very interesting indeed. Could it really be that every school that has a successful program gets at least a few transfers? I certainly believe so. Why is it so bad when Venice gets a few? Would it kill people to be honest on this board? Good grief.

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2 hours ago, Perspective said:

Personally, I would have more respect for a kid who stays with his team and the guys he went to battle with all last season (and perhaps even grew up with) than a kid who leaves his teammates behind in search of a gold medallion. 

I saw this kid play once last year.   I was impressed.  I was also impressed with Riverview's coaching staff.  But I also know this kid fits the prototype QB that Venice likes to have:  height, good mobility and a strong arm.  I really don't know how Venice's head coach and/or QB coach compares to Riverview's head coach and/or QB coach.  And, when you think about it, it would really be impossible for a kid (or his parent) to be able to compare the two unless he's been talking to someone he shouldn't be talking to. 

But, if I'm a college coach, here's what I just learned about the kid:  he has just demonstrated a willingness to pack and go where the grass appears to be greener.  If it comes down to offering this kid or offering another kid, all things being equal, I'm going to go with the kid who has demonstrated more loyalty.   The Kyle Trask kind of kid.  Not the kid that's going to enter the portal because he sees something that looks a little prettier walking down the halls of some other school.

Look, I totally get it when a high school kid sees the depth chart and realizes that he's never going to beat out the starting QB and knows he has the talent to get a scholarship if he can only show his ability on the field.   I understand it when that kid transfers.   But this kid was already the starting QB and he was playing for a team that had success last year and likely will have success this year.   

Not throwing shade on anyone (especially anyone on this board), but now I'm kind of hoping that Riverview and Venice end up playing each other in the playoffs and that Riverview gets the W.  :o

Possibly, but I think it is more likely that there are factors at play here that fans will never really know about. Maybe the kid disliked a coach or had disagreements that only he knows about. Either way, he probably felt that playing for Venice would afford him a better chance at winning. Can’t fault him for that. I just find it funny that people know that kids transfer to have better opportunities, yet get upset when Venice gets a few transfers. Definitely doesn’t reveal hypocrisy or anything like. Oops. :ph34r:

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29 minutes ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

I find it Interesting how you say you’re a fan of traditional football and complain about Venice getting transfers, but you have no qualms about how IMG operates. Very interesting indeed. Could it really be that every school that has a successful program gets at least a few transfers? I certainly believe so. Why is it so bad when Venice gets a few? Would it kill people to be honest on this board? Good grief.

but you have no qualms about how IMG operates

IMG is a private school; it doesn't have a fixed school zone from which to draw its students. Like almost all private schools, their students come from various school zones. Also, IMG doesn't make illusions that they should be compared with public schools that have restrictions that IMG doesn't encounter. They play a national schedule against teams that are usually assembled in the same fashion as IMG.  

"Could it really be that every school that has a successful program gets at least a few transfers?"

I have no objection to transfers if the kid's family actually moves to and/or resides in the school zone in which he is attending school. Are you really a successful program if you have to poach other programs to be successful?

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25 minutes ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

Possibly, but I think it is more likely that there are factors at play here that fans will never really know about. Maybe the kid disliked a coach or had disagreements that only he knows about. Either way, he probably felt that playing for Venice would afford him a better chance at winning. Can’t fault him for that. I just find it funny that people know that kids transfer to have better opportunities, yet get upset when Venice gets a few transfers. Definitely doesn’t reveal hypocrisy or anything like. Oops. :ph34r:

"Maybe the kid disliked a coach or had disagreements that only he knows about".  :lol:

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32 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

"Maybe the kid disliked a coach or had disagreements that only he knows about".  :lol:

Doubtful that was the reason as he (QB) also had their slot receiver Omari Hayes go and as others have pointed out as well as myself, Sarasota Riverview is very well coached with playoff expectations.  Kids most have been convinced better chance for Gold at Venice, but I wouldn't write off Riverview as they open their season at Sanford Seminole.

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17 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Doubtful that was the reason as he (QB) also had their slot receiver Omari Hayes go and as others have pointed out as well as myself, Sarasota Riverview is very well coached with playoff expectations.  Kids most have been convinced better chance for Gold at Venice, but I wouldn't write off Riverview as they open their season at Sanford Seminole.

Plus, don't forget the Browne kid alternated at QB with Will Evans last year and both were set to return.  The Evans kid gave us more trouble because he was a much better runner so it's not like Riverview won't have a competent quarterback.

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1 hour ago, HornetFan said:

"Maybe the kid disliked a coach or had disagreements that only he knows about".  :lol:

So where was your outrage when Hayden Wolff transferred to Venice? Or when Brian Battie transferred? Or when other schools get transfers? Where is your outrage in the 2021 transfer thread, outlining all of the schools getting transfers?  Could you please act like an adult and realize that other schools get transfers, instead of resorting to hypocrisy?

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1 hour ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

So where was your outrage when Hayden Wolff transferred to Venice? Or when Brian Battie transferred? Or when other schools get transfers? Where is your outrage in the 2021 transfer thread, outlining all of the schools getting transfers?  Could you please act like an adult and realize that other schools get transfers, instead of resorting to hypocrisy?

Well, I wasn't on this board when Wolff transferred.  :D

I'm going to be real with you.  I feel it's a safe assumption from your screen name that you're a Venice fan.  I don't know if you're an alum, the parent of a former player, the parent of a current player or some combination of the above.  Frankly, it doesn't really matter.   As a Venice fan, you have much to be proud of. 

There is no doubt that Venice has established one of the premier football programs in the state.  As such, it will naturally attract talented players who want to be a part of the program.  As I have said many times, there is a difference between "attracting" and "recruiting."  One is perfectly legal; the other is not. 

I'm going to try to address this next part as delicately as I can.   I've been around west coast football for over 15 years now.  I've been on field in Tampa when Venice has played games in Tampa and I've been on the field in Venice when Tampa teams have traveled to Venice.  I've even been to the 7 on 7 tournament that Venice hosted (including the one when they made all the other teams sit in the stands in 90 degree heat for a "presentation" while they remained in their air-conditioned locker room  :o).  

But, and here's my point: I've had heartfelt conversations with conflicted parents and shared beers with dads who were personally contacted by "representatives of the school's interests" trying to convince them to move down so their sons could play for Venice.  I can't get into specifics or name names because I promised I never would.  And trust me, it's been hard over the years not to say anything.   I guess it's possible that each of these people made up the same untrue story, but I tend to doubt it. 

So, you'll have to forgive me if I have some doubts as to the circumstances that have led the pair of Riverview players to end up at Venice.  

One last question:  any truth to the rumors that Venice plans to change its mascot from the Indians to the Guardians?   B)

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2 hours ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

So where was your outrage when Hayden Wolff transferred to Venice? Or when Brian Battie transferred? Or when other schools get transfers? Where is your outrage in the 2021 transfer thread, outlining all of the schools getting transfers?  Could you please act like an adult and realize that other schools get transfers, instead of resorting to hypocrisy?

Outrage? :lol: Having an opinion on a controversial issue is outrage? Having a problem when one school poaches another teams best players isn't outrage; it's merely having an opinion. If your coaches can't make winners out of home grown talent, you want a license to recruit another school's best players. Why would any fan have a problem with that? How should the home grown kid who patiently sat as a backup, working hard at practice each day, hoping for some playing time while he waited his turn to be the starter feel when you recruit an outsider to take the position he has been working for; great way to teach loyalty. Just my opinion; most of us have one.

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1 hour ago, HornetFan said:

Outrage? :lol: Having an opinion on a controversial issue is outrage? Having a problem when one school poaches another teams best players isn't outrage; it's merely having an opinion. If your coaches can't make winners out of home grown talent, you want a license to recruit another school's best players. Why would any fan have a problem with that? How should the home grown kid who patiently sat as a backup, working hard at practice each day, hoping for some playing time while he waited his turn to be the starter feel when you recruit an outsider to take the position he has been working for; great way to teach loyalty. Just my opinion; most of us have one.

No. My issue is that I came back to this board after an almost 2 month hiatus just to be met with ad hominem and red herring rhetoric. I am not going to name names, but I never expected this group of people on this board to act so childish and completely disregard other teams receiving players from other schools, just to complain about Venice doing it.  And for the record, recruiting is completely illegal for both private and public schools. Peacock got himself in a lot of trouble with the FHSAA, in 2014 I believe, when he texted a receiver from North Port, CK Polos, to try to incentivize him to  join the team.

Also, I don’t really want to discuss politics, but I am of the opinion that school choice is extremely important for kids to have a positive academic  and sports environment. At the end of the day, they are just kids that want to play a game. As long as the school that they are desirous of attending has space, I have no problems with kids attending that school, even if they have to jump ship. Why should a kid stay loyal to a program that has no intention of turning itself around? It’s the school’s responsibility to foster a positive environment. If they do not do so, or vehemently refuse to meet the needs of their students, than they are not worthy of loyalty. Just my 2 cents. 

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13 hours ago, HornetFan said:

Outrage? :lol: Having an opinion on a controversial issue is outrage? Having a problem when one school poaches another teams best players isn't outrage; it's merely having an opinion. If your coaches can't make winners out of home grown talent, you want a license to recruit another school's best players. Why would any fan have a problem with that? How should the home grown kid who patiently sat as a backup, working hard at practice each day, hoping for some playing time while he waited his turn to be the starter feel when you recruit an outsider to take the position he has been working for; great way to teach loyalty. Just my opinion; most of us have one.

That's just the way it is 

 

A CEO would stab an employee in the back in the heartbeat for a better position for himself, you don't work up the corporate ladder without turning on your coworkers just as you don't get to be an NFL head coach without leaving behind a lot of kids 

 

We see tons of coaches leave for better paying jobs but we expect the kids to be loyal when the adults around them won't be? Ik many people see athletes as objects of their entertainment like certain people out there who tell them to "shut up and play" but these athletes are HUMAN BEINGS 

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