Factors in scheduling...

[gatorman-uf]

The head coach/AD/County AD gives you the power to schedule non-district games for your 5A-8A public school. Your team could easily be a 4-6 team or 3rd round playoff team (3% chance of a state title). Assume 4 district games (1 below average, 2 average, 1 very good, and you). 

What factors go into your scheduling? And Why?

Local Rivalries?

Gate Games?

Cupcake Games?

Games against teams beyond your teams' expected success? 

Only teams your size? 

Against coaches you are friends with? 

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, gatorman-uf said:

The head coach/AD/County AD gives you the power to schedule non-district games for your 5A-8A public school. Your team could easily be a 4-6 team or 3rd round playoff team (3% chance of a state title). Assume 4 district games (1 below average, 2 average, 1 very good, and you). 

What factors go into your scheduling? And Why?

Local Rivalries?

Gate Games?

Cupcake Games?

Games against teams beyond your teams' expected success? 

Only teams your size? 

Against coaches you are friends with? 

I would say you want a balance

 

Too weak a schedule or too tough could have more negatives than positives, if you are gonna throw in a weaker game than it may as well be one that will make money but I definitely wouldn't be one to run from competition and I would want to schedule teams on par or better than the teams at the top of the region because if you build yourself able to beat teams better than the ones in your region then you won't be caught off guard in the playoffs as you would already know how to handle the adversity thrown in front of you 

[Jesse]

28 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

I would say you want a balance

 

Too weak a schedule or too tough could have more negatives than positives, if you are gonna throw in a weaker game than it may as well be one that will make money but I definitely wouldn't be one to run from competition and I would want to schedule teams on par or better than the teams at the top of the region because if you build yourself able to beat teams better than the ones in your region then you won't be caught off guard in the playoffs as you would already know how to handle the adversity thrown in front of you 

Blountstown loves them cupcakes.  70 -35 madco with just 10 minutes on offense by madco. No game can match that wanna bet

[DisabledAccount]

What does that game have anything to do with this discussion?

 

Maybe you should do what I used to do and just make a Madison County thread and put anything related to madison county general discussion in there 

[DarterBlue2]

7 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

The head coach/AD/County AD gives you the power to schedule non-district games for your 5A-8A public school. Your team could easily be a 4-6 team or 3rd round playoff team (3% chance of a state title). Assume 4 district games (1 below average, 2 average, 1 very good, and you). 

What factors go into your scheduling? And Why?

Local Rivalries?

Gate Games?

Cupcake Games?

Games against teams beyond your teams' expected success? 

Only teams your size? 

Against coaches you are friends with? 

1. I view local rivalries and gate games as largely fulfilling the same objectives. Depending on the number of such rivalries, I would likely have at least one but no more than three on the schedule. 

2. I would only schedule cupcake games to the extent it was easy to do so and I needed to fill out my schedule or immediately after the very good district team. 

3. I would include no more than one game against a team beyond our expected success. I want a competitive schedule, but don't want to accumulate multiple losses prior to the end of the regular season, possibly causing us a shot at the playoffs, or going into them totally demoralized. 

4. I would only include games with coaches with whom I have a good relationship to the extent that either I or them were having a lot of difficulty filling out our respective schedules, or to the extent they were against good, competitive teams that I felt would help prepare my team for the playoffs.

5. While I would not want more than one 8A or 7A team on the schedule if my team was below 4A, size would not be a major factor in my scheduling decisions. 

In short, I would want a solid, competitive schedule, without greatly overreaching my team's capabilities, while attracting good gates, particularly for our home games. 

[Hwy17]

Does scheduling a team that is clearly beyond your level benefit you any more than scheduling a likely playoff team of similar size? I'm of the opinion it doesn't really. 

[VeniceIndianFan]

35 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

Does scheduling a team that is clearly beyond your level benefit you any more than scheduling a likely playoff team of similar size? I'm of the opinion it doesn't really. 

Scheduling a team like IMG or STA in the regular season is a very good measuring stick for many coaches who wish to elevate their programs. Venice started playing IMG in the 2017 season and has been getting blown out every time they play them. However, it is likely the reason they have consistently won their region, and maybe why they were able to win states in 2017. A good coach won’t tell his or her kids, “oh, we can’t compete with these guys because we’re not good enough.” They will schedule these teams and tell their kids, “hey, we scheduled a team that has D1 offers at every position and practices football like a religion. Now let’s go beat them.” And the mindset is that they can beat them, and that these super teams are made up of human beings that sweat and bleed the same way they do. When they lose, a good coaching staff will analyze their game plan, understand what went wrong, and discuss strategies and how to improve for the next game they play. Just my 2 cents.

[Hwy17]

11 minutes ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

Scheduling a team like IMG or STA in the regular season is a very good measuring stick for many coaches who wish to elevate their programs. Venice started playing IMG in the 2017 season and has been getting blown out every time they play them. However, it is likely the reason they have consistently won their region, and maybe why they were able to win states in 2017. A good coach won’t tell his or her kids, “oh, we can’t compete with these guys because we’re not good enough.” They will schedule these teams and tell their kids, “hey, we scheduled a team that has D1 offers at every position and practices football like a religion. Now let’s go beat them.” And the mindset is that they can beat them, and that these super teams are made up of human beings that sweat and bleed the same way they do. When they lose, a good coaching staff will analyze their game plan, understand what went wrong, and discuss strategies and how to improve for the next game they play. Just my 2 cents.

I'm not surprised at all you said that. However I look at Lakeland for example. They've been able to win state championships and their regular season opponents were somewhat weak in the years they won it.  My question is, does playing IMG and losing really benefit Venice anymore than Vero?

[gatorman-uf]

23 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

I would say you want a balance

 

Too weak a schedule or too tough could have more negatives than positives, if you are gonna throw in a weaker game than it may as well be one that will make money but I definitely wouldn't be one to run from competition and I would want to schedule teams on par or better than the teams at the top of the region because if you build yourself able to beat teams better than the ones in your region then you won't be caught off guard in the playoffs as you would already know how to handle the adversity thrown in front of you 

Balance is the key, but what are you emphasizing?

For me personally, it is gate games. Games that I know are going to bring crowds (even if I might get my butt kicked or is against inferior competitors). If I am Columbia, I am scheduling Madison County, Suwannee, Fort White, Baker County, Valdosta, Lowndes, Gainesville, and Buchholz, but I am not necessarily scheduling Trinity Christian or Bolles or Lincoln.

Based on what you are saying, you want a Madison, Lowndes, Valdosta, Trinity Christian, Bolles, IMG, Lakeland, Apopka type schedule.

 

[DisabledAccount]

11 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Balance is the key, but what are you emphasizing?

For me personally, it is gate games. Games that I know are going to bring crowds (even if I might get my butt kicked or is against inferior competitors). If I am Columbia, I am scheduling Madison County, Suwannee, Fort White, Baker County, Valdosta, Lowndes, Gainesville, and Buchholz, but I am not necessarily scheduling Trinity Christian or Bolles or Lincoln.

Based on what you are saying, you want a Madison, Lowndes, Valdosta, Trinity Christian, Bolles, IMG, Lakeland, Apopka type schedule.

 

Well scheduling lowndes for gate is pointless as they won't travel to Florida

[DisabledAccount]

18 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Balance is the key, but what are you emphasizing?

For me personally, it is gate games. Games that I know are going to bring crowds (even if I might get my butt kicked or is against inferior competitors). If I am Columbia, I am scheduling Madison County, Suwannee, Fort White, Baker County, Valdosta, Lowndes, Gainesville, and Buchholz, but I am not necessarily scheduling Trinity Christian or Bolles or Lincoln.

Based on what you are saying, you want a Madison, Lowndes, Valdosta, Trinity Christian, Bolles, IMG, Lakeland, Apopka type schedule.

 

If a team is winning people will show up, playing Suwannee wasn't a competitive game and the attendance was dropping each year 

 

I don't even miss having it on the schedule as it did nothing for columbia to play them, we get better competition and gate from Madison County 

 

If we want to add another team who would give a good gate that is better than Suwannee I would rather us play Baker County

[DisabledAccount]

20 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Balance is the key, but what are you emphasizing?

For me personally, it is gate games. Games that I know are going to bring crowds (even if I might get my butt kicked or is against inferior competitors). If I am Columbia, I am scheduling Madison County, Suwannee, Fort White, Baker County, Valdosta, Lowndes, Gainesville, and Buchholz, but I am not necessarily scheduling Trinity Christian or Bolles or Lincoln.

Based on what you are saying, you want a Madison, Lowndes, Valdosta, Trinity Christian, Bolles, IMG, Lakeland, Apopka type schedule.

 

Fine with me, the only way to get respect is to step up and if playing that schedule earns respect than I'll take it

 

Besides Buchholz, Fort White and Suwannee have no interest In playing Columbia so why should we beg them to play us when we could instead face a good team who beating would actually look good on the resume, nobody on a state level even talked good about Columbia when they beat Suwannee the last few times in that series because it was expected and nobody was impressed

[Hwy17]

4 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Fine with me, the only way to get respect is to step up and if playing that schedule earns respect than I'll take it

 

Besides Buchholz, Fort White and Suwannee have no interest In playing Columbia so why should we beg them to play us when we could instead face a good team who beating would actually look good on the resume, nobody on a state level even talked good about Columbia when they beat Suwannee the last few times in that series because it was expected and nobody was impressed

Ever considered playing either Vanguard or Dunnellon? Those would be good match ups.

[DisabledAccount]

11 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

Ever considered playing either Vanguard or Dunnellon? Those would be good match ups.

Columbia has vanguard for KOC, they played a regular season series in 2011/2013 but for some reason haven't done it since but they don't seem to play Ocala teams as much for some reason

[gatorman-uf]

 

10 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Well scheduling lowndes for gate is pointless as they won't travel to Florida

____________
If a team is winning people will show up, playing Suwannee wasn't a competitive game and the attendance was dropping each year 

I don't even miss having it on the schedule as it did nothing for columbia to play them, we get better competition and gate from Madison County 

If we want to add another team who would give a good gate that is better than Suwannee I would rather us play Baker County 

____________

Fine with me, the only way to get respect is to step up and if playing that schedule earns respect than I'll take it

Besides Buchholz, Fort White and Suwannee have no interest In playing Columbia so why should we beg them to play us when we could instead face a good team who beating would actually look good on the resume, nobody on a state level even talked good about Columbia when they beat Suwannee the last few times in that series because it was expected and nobody was impressed

I didn't know that about Lowndes, maybe with Florida going to the same schedule cycle as Georgia that could be corrected, still Lowndes/Valdosta would be gate games for Columbia.

As for Suwannee, I disagree with them canceling the series. Yes, Suwannee lost for numerous straight years, who cares? You play the game because it is the game that all the alumni/communities look forward to it. I went to a Suwanee/Columbia in one of the last times they played. It was a blowout, but the crowd was still a good crowd. Heck, Suwanee should want to keep it if only because it brings them a good gate as well, but yes Madison is better competition and probably nearly as good as a gate. I would say the same for Fort White and Santa Fe canceling their series because Santa Fe kept losing.
----- 
I don't think the only the way to gain respect is to play a tough schedule. I think you gain respect by winning in the playoffs. Yes, having a winning record against good competition helps, but ultimately, elite teams are teams that you pencil into the regional finals because they have been there before repeatedly.

 

[DisabledAccount]

8 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

 

I didn't know that about Lowndes, maybe with Florida going to the same schedule cycle as Georgia that could be corrected, still Lowndes/Valdosta would be gate games for Columbia.

As for Suwannee, I disagree with them canceling the series. Yes, Suwannee lost for numerous straight years, who cares? You play the game because it is the game that all the alumni/communities look forward to it. I went to a Suwanee/Columbia in one of the last times they played. It was a blowout, but the crowd was still a good crowd. Heck, Suwanee should want to keep it if only because it brings them a good gate as well, but yes Madison is better competition and probably nearly as good as a gate. I would say the same for Fort White and Santa Fe canceling their series because Santa Fe kept losing.
----- 
I don't think the only the way to gain respect is to play a tough schedule. I think you gain respect by winning in the playoffs. Yes, having a winning record against good competition helps, but ultimately, elite teams are teams that you pencil into the regional finals because they have been there before repeatedly.

 

The reason lowndes won't travel is they make more money to pay Florida teams 10k dollars to forfeit a home gate 

 

They won't do a home and home with columbia, Valdosta is an option and had a shot to be on the schedule but the issues with Valdosta coaching situation caused it to fall through before they could get close to anything substantial

 

.........

 

Idk which Columbia vs Suwannee game you saw but I was at the last one in 2018 and both crowds were down in numbers from the 2016 home matchup in Lake City and the energy was practically dead in the third quarter to the point when my friends who I was riding with after the game wanted to get a head start on leaving I was glad to leave because it was boring and I was about ready to fall asleep from how bad the crowd was 

 

At the end of the day it was Suwannee choice to drop the game but I really didn't even care because the rivalry had become so uninteresting to the point that none the players even stayed on the field for the trophy celebration after the last game, it had become a parody of what used to be a good rivalry because Suwannee couldn't keep up anymore

 

 

.........

 

There are only a few real elite teams and outside of maybe TCA and maybe Bolles I don't know if there really any elite teams north of Orlando

 

But ik that Columbia was never getting respect until they bumped their schedule up as they are just slotted as a team who finishes second in average districts and would miss playoffs if they "had to face real competition"

 

Playing teams like Madison, like Bolles, like TCA and even playing teams from SFL is good for the program long term even if it's only because very few local teams want to play them

[Jesse]

1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

The reason lowndes won't travel is they make more money to pay Florida teams 10k dollars to forfeit a home gate 

 

They won't do a home and home with columbia, Valdosta is an option and had a shot to be on the schedule but the issues with Valdosta coaching situation caused it to fall through before they could get close to anything substantial

 

.........

 

Idk which Columbia vs Suwannee game you saw but I was at the last one in 2018 and both crowds were down in numbers from the 2016 home matchup in Lake City and the energy was practically dead in the third quarter to the point when my friends who I was riding with after the game wanted to get a head start on leaving I was glad to leave because it was boring and I was about ready to fall asleep from how bad the crowd was 

 

At the end of the day it was Suwannee choice to drop the game but I really didn't even care because the rivalry had become so uninteresting to the point that none the players even stayed on the field for the trophy celebration after the last game, it had become a parody of what used to be a good rivalry because Suwannee couldn't keep up anymore

 

 

.........

 

There are only a few real elite teams and outside of maybe TCA and maybe Bolles I don't know if there really any elite teams north of Orlando

 

But ik that Columbia was never getting respect until they bumped their schedule up as they are just slotted as a team who finishes second in average districts and would miss playoffs if they "had to face real competition"

 

Playing teams like Madison, like Bolles, like TCA and even playing teams from SFL is good for the program long term even if it's only because very few local teams want to play them

Let's go cowboys,  1A team running it. Put 42 on trinity christian before.  

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, Jesse said:

Let's go cowboys,  1A team running it. Put 42 on trinity christian before.  

Try putting 42 points on TCA these days if Madison is so great

[Jesse]

12 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Try putting 42 points on TCA these days if Madison is so great

Don't matter they did it before.  Madison is deep this year 50 plus players.

[VeniceIndianFan]

11 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

I'm not surprised at all you said that. However I look at Lakeland for example. They've been able to win state championships and their regular season opponents were somewhat weak in the years they won it.  My question is, does playing IMG and losing really benefit Venice anymore than Vero?

You have to take into account the mental aspect of playing them as well. A lot of teams lose to IMG before they even step on the field. Lakeland is one of the very very few exceptions to the rule. They have had legendary coaching from Bill Castle within their program. I’m not sure there are many guys around who know as much about the game of football as he does. It’s surprising, too, because Lakeland is in a less populous area than many other schools in Polk county.  Therefore, they “should” have less talent than, say, an STA or Miami powerhouse. As for your original question. I believe that there is more knowledge to Be had from scheduling IMG than a Vero Beach. IMG is so overwhelming that any issues you have as a team are going to be in full display. This gives coaches and players more motivation to work harder, and watch more film to gain a competitive edge over these teams. Simply put, game planning against IMG gives you more insight as to where your program currently stands, and how you can plan and prepare for teams of similar magnitude. Additionally, it motivates players more to win. Imagine what the feeling of getting a victory over a team like that would be? Playing IMG helps a lot of teams prepare for the playoffs, and give teams a more competitive edge and reason to win. And when they inevitably get crushed like a soda can, a good coaching staff will tell their kids, “you gave it your all, now here’s what we can do to move on.” They will move on, analyze the game film, understand what went wrong, and live to play another day. That is why you schedule IMG over other tough teams when building a program. Just my 2 cents, you can disagree with me if you hold a different opinion.

[DisabledAccount]

13 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

I'm not surprised at all you said that. However I look at Lakeland for example. They've been able to win state championships and their regular season opponents were somewhat weak in the years they won it.  My question is, does playing IMG and losing really benefit Venice anymore than Vero?

Lakeland in the past has also taken upset losses to teams who played better schedules so it really depends 

 

Or look at Lake Wales a few years ago who played a bunch of cupcakes then got blasted in round 3 by Jesuit in the first real competition they faced all season

 

Taking a light schedule may work if your overwhelming talented but you could also fall in a upset because you aren't used to being challenged and when that team punches you in the mouth you are then having to try and turn it up to the next level but some teams can't flip a switch that easy

[DisabledAccount]

10 hours ago, Jesse said:

Don't matter they did it before.  Madison is deep this year 50 plus players.

Yeah just like your bragging about Madison being better than Edgewater when you all beat a much weaker team years ago who isn't close to as good as they are currently

 

Leon has a winning record all time against Columbia but haven't beaten them in over 30 years

 

Does that mean Leon is better than Columbia now?

[Hwy17]

8 hours ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

You have to take into account the mental aspect of playing them as well. A lot of teams lose to IMG before they even step on the field. Lakeland is one of the very very few exceptions to the rule. They have had legendary coaching from Bill Castle within their program. I’m not sure there are many guys around who know as much about the game of football as he does. It’s surprising, too, because Lakeland is in a less populous area than many other schools in Polk county.  Therefore, they “should” have less talent than, say, an STA or Miami powerhouse. As for your original question. I believe that there is more knowledge to Be had from scheduling IMG than a Vero Beach. IMG is so overwhelming that any issues you have as a team are going to be in full display. This gives coaches and players more motivation to work harder, and watch more film to gain a competitive edge over these teams. Simply put, game planning against IMG gives you more insight as to where your program currently stands, and how you can plan and prepare for teams of similar magnitude. Additionally, it motivates players more to win. Imagine what the feeling of getting a victory over a team like that would be? Playing IMG helps a lot of teams prepare for the playoffs, and give teams a more competitive edge and reason to win. And when they inevitably get crushed like a soda can, a good coaching staff will tell their kids, “you gave it your all, now here’s what we can do to move on.” They will move on, analyze the game film, understand what went wrong, and live to play another day. That is why you schedule IMG over other tough teams when building a program. Just my 2 cents, you can disagree with me if you hold a different opinion.

I'm of the opinion that getting crushed like a soda can by a team that clearly is superior does nothing but demoralized your team, especially the underclassmen. It's clear what went wrong; they (IMG) have way more size, speed and talent than you do. I really feel that you gain more by scheduling a tough Non-District team similar to one you might actually meet up with come playoff time.

[Jesse]

7 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Yeah just like your bragging about Madison being better than Edgewater when you all beat a much weaker team years ago who isn't close to as good as they are currently

 

Leon has a winning record all time against Columbia but haven't beaten them in over 30 years

 

Does that mean Leon is better than Columbia now?

Lee owns Columbia 

[DisabledAccount]

12 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Lee owns Columbia 

Did I mention those flash in the pans?

 

I said LEON not Lee but if we want to talk about Lee they are a team who haven't won a state Semifinal game since 1964, they can talk like they an elite program with their fanbase but they aren't despite the weak attempts of people to try and justify it 

 

They are a team that only started winning because they managed to get the Ed White kids but Lee is actually Riverside high school now, so good luck to them being seen as a intimidating program with a name like that especially when they want to pretend to be a Westside or Northside school