WHAT THE HECK iS REALLY GOING ON WITH BROWARD COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS??!?

[DILLARDBOYZ954]

8 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

Careful what you wish for. I recall Saint Francis (Maryland/DC) playing MC a couple of seasons ago and SFA treated them like a red headed step child; it was pitiful. The wannabes rarely rise to the occasion.

I watched that game, and hey if you’re Miami central and you boast about being the best and you create super teams to blow through your county and state, why not play against a team who just as recruited as you and see how u really match up and we saw what happen.

[HornetFan]

2 minutes ago, THIS_IS_DILLARD said:

I watched that game, and hey if you’re Miami central and you boast about being the best and you create super teams to blow through your county and state, why not play against a team who just as recruited as you and see how u really match up and we saw what happen.

They got bitch-slapped up and down the field by SFA. They're probably still laughing in DC whenever South Florida HS football is mentioned.

[LakelandGator]

7 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

MNW lost that one because they couldn't go 2 plays without getting a flag on them, coaching had nothing to do with that win and there's nothing impressive about a team that loaded

I COULD COACH IMG TO AN UNDEFEATED SEASON! 

That's nothing but your blind hatred for IMG talking.

If you are really good enough to coach there, you are good enough to coach "anywhere" in America.

And where do you coach again?

[DILLARDBOYZ954]

46 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

They got bitch-slapped up and down the field by SFA. They're probably still laughing in DC whenever South Florida HS football is mentioned.

I bet lol

[DILLARDBOYZ954]

29 minutes ago, LakelandGator said:

That's nothing but your blind hatred for IMG talking.

If you are really good enough to coach there, you are good enough to coach "anywhere" in America.

And where do you coach again?

Lol haha

[DisabledAccount]

40 minutes ago, LakelandGator said:

That's nothing but your blind hatred for IMG talking.

If you are really good enough to coach there, you are good enough to coach "anywhere" in America.

And where do you coach again?

Who needs to be a great coach to take a bunch of 5 stars and gameplan them against regular high school teams 

 

And you ain't had any credibility since you spent a full year trying to make Lake Wales into a powerhouse while playing the weakest schedule in Polk County only for the first real team they played to obliterate them 

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, THIS_IS_DILLARD said:

You do know MNW lost to img 24-7 in 2019 then 34-7 in 2018.

both years MNW & IMG was ranked nationally, & if you’re gonna talk about recruits then img isn’t the only school guilty you think teams like Miami central and Miami northwestern get nationally ranked just by within the zone talent ?? No they recruit and make local super teams.

and I don’t want this topic to get locked so ima stay on topic, all in all teams like iMG & STA because of their resources can go the extra mile with getting talent for their rosters, but if any public school do the same thing to any type of degree can they really complain ?

do you think regular schools that don’t get a boat load of transfers and 4 & 5 star recruits think the playing feel is fair when they have to line up against them knowing their at a disadvantage. 

I have never heard anyone like Miami Central complain about teams like SFA or IMG out matching them if that's what you saying

 

When they take those games they know what they walking into 

[DILLARDBOYZ954]

Just now, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Who needs to be a great coach to take a bunch of 5 stars and gameplan them against regular high school teams 

 

And you ain't had any credibility since you spent a full year trying to make Lake Wales into a powerhouse while playing the weakest schedule in Polk County only for the first real team they played to obliterate them 

Seems to Me you’re not a fan of high school teams who heavily get recruits or transfers & become a local all star team.

which is ok, but to be fair that means you shouldn’t respect nor be a fan of the following 

chaminade 

STA

AHP

CARDINAL GIBBONS 

MNW

MC

BOOKER T (In their hay day)

LAKELAND

EDGE-WATER (recently)

and etc........

[DisabledAccount]

43 minutes ago, LakelandGator said:

That's nothing but your blind hatred for IMG talking.

If you are really good enough to coach there, you are good enough to coach "anywhere" in America.

And where do you coach again?

And your not talking with anything but a clueless Lake Wales fanboy who thinks he knows everything

 

You barely sound intelligent arguing with Polk county teams after your constantly blundering but you want to talk about my credibility? Even with the same SFL source you can't even come across with 1/10th of the credibility I can 

 

That's the problem on this board, people have all the sarcasm and second rate comebacks to fill a solar system but so few can actually justify their comments and just rely on inaccurate stereotypes from people in the stands who haven't done a minute of research to fill their argument

 

It's the same people who whine about private schools stealing players while you got publics schools getting 20 transfers and nobody says a damn thing about it because it doesn't fit their half-ass agenda

 

Where's that credibility bud?

[DisabledAccount]

26 minutes ago, THIS_IS_DILLARD said:

Seems to Me you’re not a fan of high school teams who heavily get recruits or transfers & become a local all star team.

which is ok, but to be fair that means you shouldn’t respect nor be a fan of the following 

chaminade 

STA

AHP

CARDINAL GIBBONS 

MNW

MC

BOOKER T (In their hay day)

LAKELAND

EDGE-WATER (recently)

and etc........

With those teams included I could probably come up with 50 or more teams who get as many if not more than the most if not all the teams listed 

 

I just don't agree with scapegoating STA, AHP and Cardinal Gibbons without also torching the public schools who get as many if not more than them and in reality people don't bash those teams because they get transfers 

 

They get bashed because people are jealous of their success

[DisabledAccount]

Lee and Sandalwood get more transfers up here in Jacksonville than TCA

 

The only difference is TCA actually wins state titles while the other two are failures 

 

Take a wild guess which one up here is seen as the cheaters? 

[DILLARDBOYZ954]

10 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

With those teams included I could probably come up with 50 or more teams who get as many of not more than the most if not all the teams listed 

 

I just don't agree with scapegoating STA, AHP and Cardinal Gibbons without also torching the public schools who get as many if not more than them and in reality people don't bash those teams because they get transfers 

 

They get bashed because people are jealous of their success

How i feel what’s not good for the goose shouldn’t be good for the gander of private schools get bashed for recruiting and heavy transfers, then public schools shouldn’t get a past either. 
 

like it or not all these transfers and recruits have become a problem and a lot of schools are suffering because of it. 
 

if you’re gonna recruit and create all star teams? Fine but in my opinion all those teams should be in their own league/classification. 
 

how can you really boast about winning a state championship by 30-40 points when the level of playing field wasn’t even fair to begin with. 

[DisabledAccount]

9 minutes ago, THIS_IS_DILLARD said:

How i feel what’s not good for the goose shouldn’t be good for the gander of private schools get bashed for recruiting and heavy transfers, then public schools shouldn’t get a past either. 
 

like it or not all these transfers and recruits have become a problem and a lot of schools are suffering because of it. 
 

if you’re gonna recruit and create all star teams? Fine but in my opinion all those teams should be in their own league/classification. 
 

how can you really boast about winning a state championship by 30-40 points when the level of playing field wasn’t even fair to begin with. 

Which is all well and good but how do you police it and see who are recruiting when one part of the state is open with transfers and the other does everything to cover it up?

[DILLARDBOYZ954]

29 minutes ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

And how many schools that play against IMG can say that they kept the score within 17 points? The whole point of playing them is to be used as a measuring stick to expose any flaws you have as a program. Northwestern should have beaten them last year, but they don’t have the coaching to overcome adversity the way other teams do. IMG doesn’t fill their schedule with all of these all-star teams like Mater Dei and SFA in every single week. They’ve played plenty of playoff-contending public schools over the years, such as Dillard, Venice, Miami Northwestern, Edgewater, and even Central. Sure, only Central can say they’ve kept the score within 14 in their one occasion of playing them. However, the crux of my post is that playing them helps to prepare a team for what they may see come playoff time. The incessant hatred for IMG on this board needs to stop. 

I agree 

[HornetFan]

1 hour ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

And how many schools that play against IMG can say that they kept the score within 17 points? The whole point of playing them is to be used as a measuring stick to expose any flaws you have as a program. Northwestern should have beaten them last year, but they don’t have the coaching to overcome adversity the way other teams do. IMG doesn’t fill their schedule with all of these all-star teams like Mater Dei and SFA in every single week. They’ve played plenty of playoff-contending public schools over the years, such as Dillard, Venice, Miami Northwestern, Edgewater, and even Central. Sure, only Central can say they’ve kept the score within 14 in their one occasion of playing them. However, the crux of my post is that playing them helps to prepare a team for what they may see come playoff time. The incessant hatred for IMG on this board needs to stop. 

I in no way hate IMG. I respect them because they don't try to hide how their team is built. They play for national championships and they recruit nationwide. They have an IMG White team that competes against FHSAA teams, and wins some and loses some. I don't need Mike Tyson to hit me with a left hook to realize he can kick my butt from here to next Sunday. Apparently, there are some here that actually believe their local teams should be playing IMG; I'm not one of them.

[Perspective]

I don’t hate IMG.  But I don’t necessarily “like” them either.  I respect what they have been able to accomplish, but I do not respect the way they have gone about building their program. 

IMG set out to be a national football power and they have succeeded.  In many ways, it was a ‘go big or go home, shoot for the moon’ mentality.  To their credit, they have done what they sought out to do.  From the beginning, they poured a lot of money into a football program that did not previously exist.   They spent big bucks on facilities (field, locker room, weight room, etc.) and coaches.  To some extent, IMG took The Field of Dreams approach:  if we build it, the kids will come.  Not a bad investment strategy.  But it was clear from the start that IMG did not want the development process to be a long-term deal.  Instead, they wanted to have immediate success, as that was the only way the business model would work.   And the only way to have immediate success on the field was to ‘attract’ D-1 talent.  So, they set out to bring in the best players they could – from neighboring counties, across the state and across the nation.  In the process, they made a lot of enemies among area high school coaches when they started poaching their players.  That is why a number of coaches in central and southwest Florida would not play IMG in IMG’s early years (and still will not play them to this day). 

IMG is a unicorn – at least in Florida.  They’re a combination of a private/prep school and an all-star team.  They need to be playing other similar schools, but there really aren’t any such schools in Florida.  A few teams, like STA, may check one of those boxes, but not both.  Accordingly, IMG has to play a national schedule; but that gets really expensive.  So, they try to fill in as many state schools as possible, especially those who may have some talented underclassmen.  And they do their best to be the good hosts, showing off their first-class facilities along the way, before blowing their opponents out once the games start. 

Here’s my problem with IMG.   When they first got started, in order to play both quality in-state opponents and out-of-state opponents, they had to be affiliated with a governing organization within this state.  Therefore, IMG joined the FHSAA.  From the start, they have elected to be an “independent,” meaning that they do not get to play in a state championship series.  However (and this is where the rubber meets the road), IMG also agreed, by becoming a member, to play by FHSAA rules.  One of those rules says you cannot recruit.  And from the beginning, IMG has recruited.  They don’t publicly acknowledge or talk openly about their recruiting, but they do recruit.  Everyone knows it (including the FHSAA).  Former players have posted about it on social media.  IMG recruits top-notch talent from across the country.  People go on message boards (including this one) and talk openly about it – many assuming that IMG is allowed to do it.

I can’t tell you how many conversations I have had over the years with people who think that IMG is somehow exempt from the “No Recruiting” rules.  Many of these same people also think that private schools are exempt, too.  They are not.  Each and every school that is a member of the FHSAA is prohibited from recruiting. 

As impressed as I may be with what IMG has built in a short amount of time, I have a certain amount of disdain for the way in which they did it . . . and continue to do it.  Knowing how much clout they have and the somewhat cozy relationship they have the FHSAA, I would be more impressed with, and more accepting of, IMG’s success if they simply lobbied the FHSAA for a new, special, classification of membership that allows for recruiting – even if IMG were the only member in that new, special classification.  But, to my knowledge, that has not happened . . . perhaps because the lines would get blurred and it would be so difficult to distinguish between the efforts being made to attract players for IMG’s national team (where recruiting would presumably be allowed) and the efforts being made to field IMG’s White team (which would still be covered by FHSAA’s prohibition on recruiting). 

By the way, if someone can show me the language in the FHSAA handbook/policy manual that permits IMG to actively recruit players, I’ll be happy to step down from my soapbox.  Until then, I won’t be a hater, but I won’t be a ‘respecter’ either. 

 

[HornetFan]

11 minutes ago, Perspective said:

I don’t hate IMG.  But I don’t necessarily “like” them either.  I respect what they have been able to accomplish, but I do not respect the way they have gone about building their program. 

 

IMG set out to be a national football power and they have succeeded.  In many ways, it was a ‘go big or go home, shoot for the moon’ mentality.  To their credit, they have done what they sought out to do.  From the beginning, they poured a lot of money into a football program that did not previously exist.   They spent big bucks on facilities (field, locker room, weight room, etc.) and coaches.  To some extent, IMG took The Field of Dreams approach:  if we build it, the kids will come.  Not a bad investment strategy.  But it was clear from the start that IMG did not want the development process to be a long-term deal.  Instead, they wanted to have immediate success, as that was the only way the business model would work.   And the only way to have immediate success on the field was to ‘attract’ D-1 talent.  So, they set out to bring in the best players they could – from neighboring counties, across the state and across the nation.  In the process, they made a lot of enemies among area high school coaches when they started poaching their players.  That is why a number of coaches in central and southwest Florida would not play IMG in IMG’s early years (and still will not play them to this day). 

 

IMG is a unicorn – at least in Florida.  They’re a combination of a private/prep school and an all-star team.  They need to be playing other similar schools, but there really aren’t any such schools in Florida.  A few teams, like STA, may check one of those boxes, but not both.  Accordingly, IMG has to play a national schedule; but that gets really expensive.  So, they try to fill in as many state schools as possible, especially those who may have some talented underclassmen.  And they do their best to be the good hosts, showing off their first-class facilities along the way, before blowing their opponents out once the games start. 

 

Here’s my problem with IMG.   When they first got started, in order to play both quality in-state opponents and out-of-state opponents, they had to be affiliated with a governing organization within this state.  Therefore, IMG joined the FHSAA.  From the start, they have elected to be an “independent,” meaning that they do not get to play in a state championship series.  However (and this is where the rubber meets the road), IMG also agreed, by becoming a member, to play by FHSAA rules.  One of those rules says you cannot recruit.  And from the beginning, IMG has recruited.  They don’t publicly acknowledge or talk openly about their recruiting, but they do recruit.  Everyone knows it (including the FHSAA).  Former players have posted about it on social media.  IMG recruits top-notch talent from across the country.  People go on message boards (including this one) and talk openly about it – many assuming that IMG is allowed to do it.

 

I can’t tell you how many conversations I have had over the years with people who think that IMG is somehow exempt from the “No Recruiting” rules.  Many of these same people also think that private schools are exempt, too.  They are not.  Each and every school that is a member of the FHSAA is prohibited from recruiting. 

 

As impressed as I may be with what IMG has built in a short amount of time, I have a certain amount of disdain for the way in which they did it . . . and continue to do it.  Knowing how much clout they have and the somewhat cozy relationship they have the FHSAA, I would be more impressed with, and more accepting of, IMG’s success if they simply lobbied the FHSAA for a new, special, classification of membership that allows for recruiting – even if IMG were the only member in that new, special classification.  But, to my knowledge, that has not happened . . . perhaps because the lines would get blurred and it would be so difficult to distinguish between the efforts being made to attract players for IMG’s national team (where recruiting would presumably be allowed) and the efforts being made to field IMG’s White team (which would still be covered by FHSAA’s prohibition on recruiting). 

 

By the way, if someone can show me the language in the FHSAA handbook/policy manual that permits IMG to actively recruit players, I’ll be happy to step down from my soapbox.  Until then, I won’t be a hater, but I won’t be a ‘respecter’ either. 

 

 

 

"Each and every school that is a member of the FHSAA is prohibited from recruiting."

If the FHSAA and its members look the other way, and don't enforce the recruiting rules, schools will continue to find ways to lure players away from other programs. The transfer rule that allows students to transfer to schools that are not at capacity has made recruiting very easy for the best programs. Don't hate IMG for being honest as to the type of program they operate. They don't even have to recruit; players wanting to improve their college recruiting status seek them out.

[Perspective]

1 minute ago, HornetFan said:

"Each and every school that is a member of the FHSAA is prohibited from recruiting."

If the FHSAA and its members look the other way, and don't enforce the recruiting rules, schools will continue to find ways to lure players away from other programs. The transfer rule that allows students to transfer to schools that are not at capacity has made recruiting very easy for the best programs. Don't hate IMG for being honest as to the type of program they operate. They don't even have to recruit; players wanting to improve their college recruiting status seek them out.

Remember, however, that IMG's football program was created before the transfer rules changed (not that it really matters, given that IMG is private).    I don't hate IMG for being honest about their program.  I don't hate them at all.  But, I don't like the fact that they agreed to play by certain rules and then turned around and (somewhat openly) built their program by doing exactly what they agreed they wouldn't do. 

My post was probably too long as it was, but I meant to include a sentence or two that addressed the point you just made when I made reference to The Field of Dreams.  Because IMG did have initial success, they were able to attract players from across the county.  These kids filled the gaps that existed the first few years when IMG had a group of 3-5star skill players, but very little, if any, depth.   Now, many families are willing to pay full freight for their kids to attend IMG to get the training and visibility that goes along with being a part of the program (whether the kid ends up playing on the National team or the White team).  But, that does not change my perception that the ultra successful program that exists today was built on false foundation by a program that openly recruited in violation of the rules while the organization in charge turned a blind eye. 

HornetFan, if you've read my posts over the last couple of years, you will know that I recognize there is a distinction between "recruiting" and "attracting."   Successful programs attract kids.  The transfer rules in place now make that even easier.  The rich get richer (or at least stay rich), while it becomes darn near impossible for a school to slowly build up its program into a successful one.  But, those are the rules.  On the other hand, a concerted effort by a school to reach out to specific players that are not already enrolled at that school for the purpose of trying to convince those specific players to attend that school instead is recruiting and, last time I checked, still illegal. 

My bottom line is simple:  either change the rules or enforce them. 

[fishspinners]

On 6/10/2021 at 10:16 PM, THIS_IS_DILLARD said:

they did a poll that showed more talent coming out of broward then Mia 

I'd like to see that poll.

[DILLARDBOYZ954]

2 minutes ago, fishspinners said:

I'd like to see that poll.

Lol 

[DILLARDBOYZ954]

How I feel about all this img is no diff then STA & vice versa & if that’s the case STA Shouldn’t qualify for the FHSAA either. 
 

were either gonna respect recruiting fully or despise it fully, private or public school.

[HornetFan]

5 hours ago, Perspective said:

Remember, however, that IMG's football program was created before the transfer rules changed (not that it really matters, given that IMG is private).    I don't hate IMG for being honest about their program.  I don't hate them at all.  But, I don't like the fact that they agreed to play by certain rules and then turned around and (somewhat openly) built their program by doing exactly what they agreed they wouldn't do. 

My post was probably too long as it was, but I meant to include a sentence or two that addressed the point you just made when I made reference to The Field of Dreams.  Because IMG did have initial success, they were able to attract players from across the county.  These kids filled the gaps that existed the first few years when IMG had a group of 3-5star skill players, but very little, if any, depth.   Now, many families are willing to pay full freight for their kids to attend IMG to get the training and visibility that goes along with being a part of the program (whether the kid ends up playing on the National team or the White team).  But, that does not change my perception that the ultra successful program that exists today was built on false foundation by a program that openly recruited in violation of the rules while the organization in charge turned a blind eye. 

HornetFan, if you've read my posts over the last couple of years, you will know that I recognize there is a distinction between "recruiting" and "attracting."   Successful programs attract kids.  The transfer rules in place now make that even easier.  The rich get richer (or at least stay rich), while it becomes darn near impossible for a school to slowly build up its program into a successful one.  But, those are the rules.  On the other hand, a concerted effort by a school to reach out to specific players that are not already enrolled at that school for the purpose of trying to convince those specific players to attend that school instead is recruiting and, last time I checked, still illegal. 

My bottom line is simple:  either change the rules or enforce them. 

"My bottom line is simple:  either change the rules or enforce them."  I agree with you 100%.

[DILLARDBOYZ954]

7 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

"My bottom line is simple:  either change the rules or enforce them."  I agree with you 100%.

I agree 

[DisabledAccount]

2 hours ago, THIS_IS_DILLARD said:

How I feel about all this img is no diff then STA & vice versa & if that’s the case STA Shouldn’t qualify for the FHSAA either. 
 

were either gonna respect recruiting fully or despise it fully, private or public school.

Why only mention STA

 

I can again name 50 or so schools both private and public that get more transfers than they do, some that even blatantly recruit too 

 

My point is there are schools doing far worse than STA, the only difference is a lot of those schools aren't winning state titles so nobody seems to care 

 

So why do people only get upset when teams are doing it and winning? Isn't the rules being broken either way?

[Perspective]

2 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

My point is there are schools doing far worse than STA, the only difference is a lot of those schools aren't winning state titles so nobody seems to care 

 

So why do people only get upset when teams are doing it and winning? Isn't the rules being broken either way?

First, we know, we know . . . Lee gets more transfers than most private schools in Duval. 

Second, in answer to your last question, it's human nature.  Think back to grade school P.E.   If a kid got a false start in a race, but you still smoked him, did you really care that he cheated?  If a kid took five steps after he stopped dribbling, but still missed the layup, did you really care that he traveled?  Or even in class, if a kid cheated on a test, but you still aced it, did you really care that he got a 70 instead of failing it?   In short, it's just human nature to ignore violations that don't impact you or someone you care about.   

I've said for years that if a coach or team is going to cheat, they should do it when they're not any good, because then no one will care.   Seriously, if a high school team in your area holds a frickin' Friday Night Lights recruiting fair for all 8th graders in the county, but then goes 0-10 the next season, do you really care?  Arguably, you should, because that team may just be building from the ground up and kick your butt in 3-4 years when all the kids they recruited are seniors.  But, that's just not human nature.  We all tend to let things slide when they don't adversely affect us. 

So, of course coaches and teams that break the rules should be punished equally, regardless of their success on the field.  But very few schools are going to turn in a coach or school that is out there actively recruiting when the team sucks.  More likely than not, they'll just laugh at the cheaters ("They're so bad, they're cheating and still can't win a game!").  But all that changes when we start talking about the top dogs -- in part because, often times, those teams are having success at your team's expense.  I can guarantee you that every coach, player and fan of a team that finished runner-up in a state title game is looking across the field wondering if any of the kids on the winning team were illegally recruited and, if so, whether any of those kids made a difference in the outcome of the game. 

In short, if you beat me fair and square, I'll respect you.  If you have to cheat to beat me, I'll detest you.  Again, it's just human nature.