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IMG 35 v Am. Heritage 15 - FINAL


ExplorerHomer2

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  • ExplorerHomer2 changed the title to IMG 35 v Am. Heritage 15 - FINAL

I never have issues with referees even if, in a few instances, they do make some suspicious calls. I give the benefit of the doubt to referees who volunteer there time and effort for very little pay in high school football. That being said I watched the replay of the IMG/American Heritage game this morning. Picture this, IMG won 35 to 15. Besides IMG had 3 TDs called back. They also had some of the most one sided penalties I have ever seen called against them. Many penalties that I had no clue what they were for. Even the AH fans seemed to be uneasy about the types of calls against IMG. There were so many penalties against IMG that in the latter part of the game IMG players were getting angry and frustrated. I saw IMG players and their coach having a few heated discussions with the referees probably asking them what the hell is going on. Just imagine how good IMG had to be to defeat powerhouse AH in their own backyard, 35 -15, have 3 TDs called back, and suffer probably close to 200 yards of penalties against them? I am not making excuses of any kind for IMG as they did have 4 or 5 legitimate penalties called.  But to call penalties almost every other play and against IMG only, doesn't add up.  I just want to see a game that is fairly refereed no matter who the opponents are. This game was officiated in favor of AH undoubtedly. 

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10 hours ago, Proseteye said:

I never have issues with referees even if, in a few instances, they do make some suspicious calls. I give the benefit of the doubt to referees who volunteer there time and effort for very little pay in high school football. That being said I watched the replay of the IMG/American Heritage game this morning. Picture this, IMG won 35 to 15. Besides IMG had 3 TDs called back. They also had some of the most one sided penalties I have ever seen called against them. Many penalties that I had no clue what they were for. Even the AH fans seemed to be uneasy about the types of calls against IMG. There were so many penalties against IMG that in the latter part of the game IMG players were getting angry and frustrated. I saw IMG players and their coach having a few heated discussions with the referees probably asking them what the hell is going on. Just imagine how good IMG had to be to defeat powerhouse AH in their own backyard, 35 -15, have 3 TDs called back, and suffer probably close to 200 yards of penalties against them? I am not making excuses of any kind for IMG as they did have 4 or 5 legitimate penalties called.  But to call penalties almost every other play and against IMG only, doesn't add up.  I just want to see a game that is fairly refereed no matter who the opponents are. This game was officiated in favor of AH undoubtedly. 

Proseteye, could you provide some examples of the fouls and penalties that you had issues with? 

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10 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Proseteye, could you provide some examples of the fouls and penalties that you had issues with? 

It was not necessarily the types of penalties it was the quantity of them. Seemed as though the referees were calling every minor and perceived infractions against IMG. Three TDs called back. Two I would assume were for holding and the pick 6 I don't know what they called. Many of them were personal fouls where it was hard for me to determine what foul actually happened. The IMG players and coaches recognized that penalties were being called against them indiscriminately and there seemed to be many heated discussions with the Refs on the field about it. This only made the situation worse as the IMG players were starting to play extra tough football due to the frustration. 

The point that I was really trying to bring out is that the score ended up 35-15, 3 IMG TDs were called back, IMG got about 200 yards of penalties, and still managed to defeat the #8 best team in the country in their ballpark. I would also like to bring out that IMG did not play that well. Their 4 star QB A J Duffy was really less than spectacular failing to connect with his WRs frequently. The IMG defense missed tackles that they normally make, Yet they still won the game.  

I primarily follow IMG because they normally take on the best teams in the country. Teams that recruit and get unlimited transfers just like IMG so there is really no great advantage for IMG. 

 

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Completely disagree with your assessment.  Being there in person you would know IMG deserved every penalty and more should of been called. You don't have players ejected if your not playing dirty. Many block in the back, late hits, targeting, facemasks, punches thrown. Not out of frustration but from the get go. They completely caused it all. They are a very talented team and don't need to play like that. Your statement about the 3 tds being called back means nothing when they scored on those drives anyway. Two of those drives were only kept alive by questionable PI calls on 3rd and long.

I don't understand why you can't give any credit to the secondary for locking down IMGs passing game and only letting up a td on a busted coverage call. The ahp skill players that were making IMG tackle air are very solid as well and they had something to do about it.

IMG only sacked AHP once, while ahp had two sacks. There were also no run plays for ahp that ended in a loss.

IMG is an extremely loaded team and shouldn't lose a game, they just don't have to play so dirty. The OL and the rbs #3 and 13 are electric.

The scuffle with their coach coming over to the sideline was the result of two IMG players driving a tackle after the whistle out of bounds and into the benches and fence. An IMG player was injured from himself by hitting the bench.

To top it off AHP put backups in the second half while IMG tried to make the score look worse. IMG was up by 20 in a kickoff classic that doesn't mean anything with 2:00 mins left and didn't knee it out. No sense risking any more injuries running a play. 

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On 8/21/2021 at 12:44 PM, Proseteye said:

I never have issues with referees even if, in a few instances, they do make some suspicious calls. I give the benefit of the doubt to referees who volunteer there time and effort for very little pay in high school football. That being said I watched the replay of the IMG/American Heritage game this morning. Picture this, IMG won 35 to 15. Besides IMG had 3 TDs called back. They also had some of the most one sided penalties I have ever seen called against them. Many penalties that I had no clue what they were for. Even the AH fans seemed to be uneasy about the types of calls against IMG. There were so many penalties against IMG that in the latter part of the game IMG players were getting angry and frustrated. I saw IMG players and their coach having a few heated discussions with the referees probably asking them what the hell is going on. Just imagine how good IMG had to be to defeat powerhouse AH in their own backyard, 35 -15, have 3 TDs called back, and suffer probably close to 200 yards of penalties against them? I am not making excuses of any kind for IMG as they did have 4 or 5 legitimate penalties called.  But to call penalties almost every other play and against IMG only, doesn't add up.  I just want to see a game that is fairly refereed no matter who the opponents are. This game was officiated in favor of AH undoubtedly. 

I don’t think that watching a game on tv, computer, or whatever can b fairly assessed. You see a half to a 3rd what’s going on.  If you’re not their in person you can’t possibly get the entire climate or particulars of the game......perhaps a lil bias on your behalf Pros....?

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54 minutes ago, Jullian said:

I don’t think that watching a game on tv, computer, or whatever can b fairly assessed. You see a half to a 3rd what’s going on.  If you’re not their in person you can’t possibly get the entire climate or particulars of the game......perhaps a lil bias on your behalf Pros....?

Off topic sorry,  but lowndes featured a former cowboy player name jarcarre Fleming. Look him up on Instagram at jfleming dude only a sophomore running thru teams in Mercedes Benz stadium in Atlanta. He gonna be five star fast.

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6 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Off topic sorry,  but lowndes featured a former cowboy player name jarcarre Fleming. Look him up on Instagram at jfleming dude only a sophomore running thru teams in Mercedes Benz stadium in Atlanta. He gonna be five star fast.

Did Lowndes really play in Atlanta’s stadium? Was there a deal somewhere that you know of, to allow them to play more games there? 

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10 minutes ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

Did Lowndes really play in Atlanta’s stadium? Was there a deal somewhere that you know of, to allow them to play more games there? 

Idk about a deal but I know they played walton and lost in overtime. And Fleming should have stay at madison to embarrass Florida teams. But he gonna take off on Georgia teams and represent Florida with that real speed.

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12 hours ago, Proseteye said:

It was not necessarily the types of penalties it was the quantity of them. Seemed as though the referees were calling every minor and perceived infractions against IMG. Three TDs called back. Two I would assume were for holding and the pick 6 I don't know what they called. Many of them were personal fouls where it was hard for me to determine what foul actually happened. The IMG players and coaches recognized that penalties were being called against them indiscriminately and there seemed to be many heated discussions with the Refs on the field about it. This only made the situation worse as the IMG players were starting to play extra tough football due to the frustration. 

The point that I was really trying to bring out is that the score ended up 35-15, 3 IMG TDs were called back, IMG got about 200 yards of penalties, and still managed to defeat the #8 best team in the country in their ballpark. I would also like to bring out that IMG did not play that well. Their 4 star QB A J Duffy was really less than spectacular failing to connect with his WRs frequently. The IMG defense missed tackles that they normally make, Yet they still won the game.  

I primarily follow IMG because they normally take on the best teams in the country. Teams that recruit and get unlimited transfers just like IMG so there is really no great advantage for IMG. 

 

Proseteye, it sounds to me like there were a lot of player safety fouls. Those fouls are a huge point-of-emphasis every year, and it would behoove IMG to work on their aggressive behavior instead of arguing every penalty with the officials. That is like arguing with your wife, and as you know, you will NOT win that argument. 

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14 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Proseteye, it sounds to me like there were a lot of player safety fouls. Those fouls are a huge point-of-emphasis every year, and it would behoove IMG to work on their aggressive behavior instead of arguing every penalty with the officials. That is like arguing with your wife, and as you know, you will NOT win that argument. 

Have no idea why the referees did not control the situation better if the IMG players or any of the players were getting out of hand. Just throwing a multitude of flags for every conceivable infraction only exacerbated the problem I would think. The Head Referee or Crew Chief should have met with both coaches together and resolved the problem before it got out of hand. If that did not resolve the problem then he should have threatened to remove players from the game for unsportsmanlike behavior. I also believe that a head referee has the discretion to cancel the remainder of a game for situations that are unsafe. I noticed a couple of instances when the players from both sides were beginning to fight with each other. Somehow I don't think the entire blame for this disruption can be placed entirely on IMG as the AH players were also engaged in retaliation. 

The bottom line is that IMG did win over one of the best teams in the country in spite of the unsettling behavior that transpired.  

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8 hours ago, Proseteye said:

Have no idea why the referees did not control the situation better if the IMG players or any of the players were getting out of hand. Just throwing a multitude of flags for every conceivable infraction only exacerbated the problem I would think. The Head Referee or Crew Chief should have met with both coaches together and resolved the problem before it got out of hand. If that did not resolve the problem then he should have threatened to remove players from the game for unsportsmanlike behavior. I also believe that a head referee has the discretion to cancel the remainder of a game for situations that are unsafe. I noticed a couple of instances when the players from both sides were beginning to fight with each other. Somehow I don't think the entire blame for this disruption can be placed entirely on IMG as the AH players were also engaged in retaliation. 

The bottom line is that IMG did win over one of the best teams in the country in spite of the unsettling behavior that transpired.  

Just how would you suggest "getting the problem under control" without having fouls and penalties? Talking to the Head Coach and players does no good if they are not willing to listen. The procedure for a player or coach ejecting themselves is for officials to have two unsportsmanlike fouls called on the same player or coach. I repeat, player safety is a huge point-of-emphasis every year with the NFHS, and if a team cannot correct their behavior or style of play after multiple fouls and penalties, then the problem is on that team, not the officials. No Referee is going to forfeit a game, even though he-she has that authority, unless it is a dire situation, and a player or coach refuses the officials directives. 

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46 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

Just how would you suggest "getting the problem under control" without having fouls and penalties? Talking to the Head Coach and players does no good if they are not willing to listen. The procedure for a player or coach ejecting themselves is for officials to have two unsportsmanlike fouls called on the same player or coach. I repeat, player safety is a huge point-of-emphasis every year with the NFHS, and if a team cannot correct their behavior or style of play after multiple fouls and penalties, then the problem is on that team, not the officials. No Referee is going to forfeit a game, even though he-she has that authority, unless it is a dire situation, and a player or coach refuses the officials directives. 

I stated what I thought would be the best solution. Beyond that I have nothing more to add.

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I can never root for IMG.  Ever.  They represent everything bad about this sport.  What's the point of putting a bunch of 4 and 5 stars on a single team and then play high school ball?  Every year their graduating class would be a top-ten recruiting class by themselves.   In addition to the amassed talent, IMG players can train/practice practically all day while taking the occasional class.  Being a private school, they can do whatever they want to keep kids academically eligible just like they would do at Bama, etc (funny how Bama players never flunk out, huh?).   Yeah I'm a hater but I do acknowledge other private schools are free to do the same thing but IMG is just all-in on the concept.  

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2 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

I can never root for IMG.  Ever.  They represent everything bad about this sport.  What's the point of putting a bunch of 4 and 5 stars on a single team and then play high school ball?  Every year their graduating class would be a top-ten recruiting class by themselves.   In addition to the amassed talent, IMG players can train/practice practically all day while taking the occasional class.  Being a private school, they can do whatever they want to keep kids academically eligible just like they would do at Bama, etc (funny how Bama players never flunk out, huh?).   Yeah I'm a hater but I do acknowledge other private schools are free to do the same thing but IMG is just all-in on the concept.  

IMG does not hide the fact that they are a training facility for future professional athletes in all sports not just football. They do not force any other school to play them. However, there are schools lined up to play them every season. That is the reason they are in an independent category of the FHSAA which means they are in no district where other district schools are mandated to play them. For the most part IMG plays the top teams in the country, teams that also recruit and accept unlimited transfers just as IMG does. I root for IMG when they play teams from other states. IMG is still a team that is based in Florida and I support all Florida teams that play out of state opponents. I also enjoy watching the best of best play no matter what their situation is. A few of their players may be someday playing on Sundays or at the very least playing on Saturdays. 

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37 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

IMG does not hide the fact that they are a training facility for future professional athletes in all sports not just football. They do not force any other school to play them. However, there are schools lined up to play them every season. That is the reason they are in an independent category of the FHSAA which means they are in no district where other district schools are mandated to play them. For the most part IMG plays the top teams in the country, teams that also recruit and accept unlimited transfers just as IMG does. I root for IMG when they play teams from other states. IMG is still a team that is based in Florida and I support all Florida teams that play out of state opponents. I also enjoy watching the best of best play no matter what their situation is. A few of their players may be someday playing on Sundays or at the very least playing on Saturdays. 

You make many factual points, so I agree what they do is on the up and up.  But I like you enjoy watching players who may be someday playing on Sunday or at the very least Saturdays.  However, I prefer watching them in my home stadium repping my hometown, not an All-Star team.  We have several high profile players with many offers and my fear is not being poached by another local team, but an outfit like this.  Same thing happened with 6'9" basketball player we lost a couple of years back to Montverde Academy when we were poised to win state championships (did win 2 out of 3 in the cycle).  We currently have two DL that not only have lots of offers, but both have offers that include last years final four (Alabama, Notre Dame, Ohio State and Clemson) and they are only Juniors.  It would be devastating for any program to lose athletes of this caliber to an All-Star team.  That is my take about these types of programs, rob local fans of homegrown talent performing in their hometown.  Anywhere in America.

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33 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

You make many factual points, so I agree what they do is on the up and up.  But I like you enjoy watching players who may be someday playing on Sunday or at the very least Saturdays.  However, I prefer watching them in my home stadium repping my hometown, not an All-Star team.  We have several high profile players with many offers and my fear is not being poached by another local team, but an outfit like this.  Same thing happened with 6'9" basketball player we lost a couple of years back to Montverde Academy when we were poised to win state championships (did win 2 out of 3 in the cycle).  We currently have two DL that not only have lots of offers, but both have offers that include last years final four (Alabama, Notre Dame, Ohio State and Clemson) and they are only Juniors.  It would be devastating for any program to lose athletes of this caliber to an All-Star team.  That is my take about these types of programs, rob local fans of homegrown talent performing in their hometown.  Anywhere in America.

Two things to ponder, Ray.

IMG is a very expensive private academy wherein most parents cannot even hope to afford even with government help. So, the probability that a player from your school would be able to attend is quite low.

How many other Florida schools, both private and public, accept and I believe actively recruit players from other schools? Just look at the amount of transfers this season alone. The chance that any of your players will be one of those transfers is much higher than in the IMG scenario. 

If IMG comes looking for a standout player on your team that player better have a big bank account.

If Miami Northwestern comes looking for a standout player on your team just takes a little longer drive. 

 

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45 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

Two things to ponder, Ray.

IMG is a very expensive private academy wherein most parents cannot even hope to afford even with government help. So, the probability that a player from your school would be able to attend is quite low.

How many other Florida schools, both private and public, accept and I believe actively recruit players from other schools? Just look at the amount of transfers this season alone. The chance that any of your players will be one of those transfers is much higher than in the IMG scenario. 

If IMG comes looking for a standout player on your team that player better have a big bank account.

If Miami Northwestern comes looking for a standout player on your team just takes a little longer drive. 

 

Proset, you make some good arguments, but if you think the top athletes at IMG are paying anything close to full freight, I've got a bridge that connects Pinellas and Manatee Counties that I'd like to sell you.   :D

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50 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

Two things to ponder, Ray.

IMG is a very expensive private academy wherein most parents cannot even hope to afford even with government help. So, the probability that a player from your school would be able to attend is quite low.

How many other Florida schools, both private and public, accept and I believe actively recruit players from other schools? Just look at the amount of transfers this season alone. The chance that any of your players will be one of those transfers is much higher than in the IMG scenario. 

If IMG comes looking for a standout player on your team that player better have a big bank account.

If Miami Northwestern comes looking for a standout player on your team just takes a little longer drive. 

 

Competely wrong, our QB born in Kissimmee, FL who's dad played on our state championship team in 1998 (Chad Mascoe, SR) moved to Thomasville, GA when they were young.  As an 8th grader, Chad Jr. already had eyes on him and started varsity ball as a 9th grader.  His sophomore year, played at IMG and no way his parents could hope to pay what you are claiming.  Got hurt towards the end of that season and family decided to move back to Kissimmee and play for OHS his Junior and Senior years.  He is our starting QB now.

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I have no idea what the internal finances of IMG are. All I know is that the Standard advertised tuition for one year of boarding at IMG Academy is $68,500 plus a team sport competition and training gear fee that ranges from $3,750-$4,250 depending on the sport. Government financial aid up to $10,400 per year is available for private school tuition with families that meet the qualifications. Assuming, that somehow IMG doesn't charge tuition to their football team players, is just that an assumption or in other words a guess. Unless you actually know one of the players or coaches on the team that has told you emphatically that they paid little or nothing for their tuition, then I will assume that it's an uneducated guess. How would IMG make any profit if they didn't charge their football players any tuition or charged them a drastically reduced rate? Also, if they didn't charge some players or charged them a much lower rate how would they justify it with the other players? Sorry, just doesn't make sense.   ;)

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If you know them personally then what type of tuition did they pay or what type of discount did they get off the standard tuition? What were the circumstances wherein they did not have to pay the standard tuition? Not questioning your information. Just curious how someone is able to get special treatment and is that special treatment available to all of the players? I'm retired, have little to no debt, and have a pretty decent net income, and I don't think I could have afforded to send my son to IMG when he was in high school. Just saying.

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2 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

If you know them personally then what type of tuition did they pay or what type of discount did they get off the standard tuition? What were the circumstances wherein they did not have to pay the standard tuition? Not questioning your information. Just curious how someone is able to get special treatment and is that special treatment available to all of the players? I'm retired, have little to no debt, and have a pretty decent net income, and I don't think I could have afforded to send my son to IMG when he was in high school. Just saying.

Known them for over 30 years as the grandmother worked with my wife at Tupperware and the father attended HS with one of my sons.  You're the IMG expert so will have to figure that part out on your own.  Just know that what I have said is factual and no way they could have paid any of that, but you have the right to doubt my opinion.  Just saying.

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41 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

I have no idea what the internal finances of IMG are. All I know is that the Standard advertised tuition for one year of boarding at IMG Academy is $68,500 plus a team sport competition and training gear fee that ranges from $3,750-$4,250 depending on the sport. Government financial aid up to $10,400 per year is available for private school tuition with families that meet the qualifications. Assuming, that somehow IMG doesn't charge tuition to their football team players, is just that an assumption or in other words a guess. Unless you actually know one of the players or coaches on the team that has told you emphatically that they paid little or nothing for their tuition, then I will assume that it's an uneducated guess. How would IMG make any profit if they didn't charge their football players any tuition or charged them a drastically reduced rate? Also, if they didn't charge some players or charged them a much lower rate how would they justify it with the other players? Sorry, just doesn't make sense.   ;)

The Family Empowerment Scholarship (formerly Gardiner)

  • 65,000+ scholarships awarded
  • Available to students 3 years old - 12th grade or age 22
  • $10,400 average amount awarded
  • Funds may be used for private school, instructional materials, home education, tutoring and more...

Proset, have you ever had a kid play AAU sports or Club sports?   It is not uncommon for the more well-to-do players to pay the full amount (if not a little more) so that the one or two really good players --  whose families don't have the resources to pay --  don't have to pay at all (or pay just a fraction of what the others are paying).   In short, those that can pay subsidize those who cannot.   The key is to find the perfect balance of talent and money.   The real key is to find rich kids with talent (or talented kids with money).    Private schools do it all the time.   IMG just took it to another level. 

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2 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Known them for over 30 years as the grandmother worked with my wife at Tupperware and the father attended HS with one of my sons.  You're the IMG expert so will have to figure that part out on your own.  Just know that what I have said is factual and no way they could have paid any of that, but you have the right to doubt my opinion.  Just saying.

I know about the team, coaches, and players. Know nothing about IMG's internal financial affairs. The reason that I asked. I have heard a few people on forums, including this one, state that none of the players pay full tuition at IMG. I am simply trying to ascertain if anyone knows specifics regarding tuition not being paid and how it is possible. That's all. I do know that at Trinity Catholic The 2020-2021 tuition is $11,503 for Catholics registered and participating in the parish; $13,585 is the non-Catholic rate. At TC a few students can qualify for government assistance or reduced tuition due to scholarships. However, that rarely reduces the tuition by more than 15%. TC has to pay its bills out of the tuition in order to remain viable and cannot give away free tuition. 

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