Football playoff changes on the discussion docket for football advisory committee

[Joshua Wilson]

Since this is not a full news story yet and is more of being floated through a committee I would open a thread to discussion on what Frank Beasley, one of the director of athletics for the FHSAA, has proposed for changes to the football system.

 

Now of course anything is not official right now (as in changes actually happening) and must go through committee and then be officially voted upon by the Board of Directors. It is a process that could take up to two years. Here is a link to the info: http://www.fhsaa.org/sites/default/files/orig_uploads/gov/fb/agenda/2016.pdf

 

I will just give a brief run down of what is being discussed around and let you all weigh in on it.

 

The proposal for smaller schools is to allow them be assigned a classification, but they would play no district schedule, instead the schedule would be controlled by the teams themselves and points would be awarded depending on games won and who they won against.

 

Here are some bullet points with that.

 

- Allows teams to control travel cost and competition during the regular season

- SAFETY! You schedule who you want, who you feel best fits your kids and program goals.

- Allows for a true champion to be crowned

- Creates excitement

- Allows Schools to schedule who they want during the regular season

- Allows teams an opportunity to make the playoffs on an equal playing field

- Adds some excitement to the end of season (seeding) (Press conference to announce in FHSAA office)

- Create a seeding committee that will compile raw data to seed

- Makes 8 regular season games count

 

Smaller classes playoff format would work like this under the proposal discussion

 

- 4 regions per class

- 8 teams from each region make the playoffs, however in 1A Rural 4 teams in each region would make the playoffs instead..

- 32 teams per class make the playoffs, however in 1A Rural 16 teams in each class would make the playoffs instead.

- 5 rounds, with only 4 rounds in 1A Rural

- No region schedule required

- Teams would schedule their own games

 

Larger school classifications they would keep the district type formatting (sort of going towards a regional format)  - would have 4 Champions/4 wildcard teams per region.

 

- Unfair for smaller districts to gain entry into the playoffs

- Penalizes a tough district with 3 or more teams that are deserving a playoff berth vs a weaker district who gets two average teams in

- Stops all of the jockeying for district reassignment

- Allows for a true champion to be crowned

- Creates excitement

- Allows teams an opportunity to make the playoffs on an equal playing field

- Adds some excitement to the end of season (seeding) (Press conference to announce in FHSAA office)

- Create a seeding committee that will compile raw data to seed

- Makes 8 regular season games count

 

There are some concerns with it as in dealing with forfeited games, weather issues, scheduling a full schedule and out-of-state games counting in the mix.

 

So how would teams make the playoffs? A points system would be the key to all of this.

 

Each team will receive a points each week based on the following:

- 4 points for a win in your own class or below

- 5 points for a win against a team in a larger class

- 2 points for a loss against a larger class

- 1 point for each of your opponents earned wins (all games played that season through week 11)

 

Which games count?

- Starting from week 11 and counting back 8 of your games will count for seeding purposes. (Leaves wiggle room for cancellations for weather)

 

How would ties be broken if it is tied with other schools?

- Win-loss percentage.

- If teams have the same record, the next tiebreaker is how the teams did head-to-head.

- If the tie still can’t be broken, it will come down to number of wins against teams from larger classifications.

- If teams are tied through record, head-to-head and wins against larger schools, it could come down to margin of points over 10 regular-season games, with a maximum of 21 in each. (This would be a capped point system, something very similar that is used in Texas).

- Coin toss

 

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MY TAKE: 

 

To be honest, I like what I am seeing here, but this won't be the total solution to everything. This will certainly add more excitement to everything going on towards the playoffs and make the playoffs better and thus keeping the bad teams out of the playoffs.

 

However, this won't solve the solution of the number of smaller private schools going independent. I don't see a lot of these independent teams coming back into it unless there is ways that the small school powers that dominate can change and that is part of the problem as why these schools are moving around. Really though the FHSAA has no solution because their hands are tied up thanks to the state.

 

Really the state needs to embrace a two organization system like Alabama (AHSAA, AISA) and Georgia have (GHSA, GISA) and allow the SSAC to represent the smaller schools who want to be a part of their association and still have the opportunities to compete like they seek out. 

 

So what is your thoughts on all of this? Share away and I will share more of my thoughts later on.

[Tigerfan1]

I dont like it, Anytime you have a committee decide anything personal agendas will set the tone, You ether play in a district and win or you don't,  Lets settle it on the field and keep politics from deciding the seeding.  

[Joshua Wilson]

I dont like it, Anytime you have a committee decide anything personal agendas will set the tone, You ether play in a district and win or you don't,  Lets settle it on the field and keep politics from deciding the seeding.  

 

The numbers will do the speaking and anyone can keep really keep track of it. Should it be fair to let a three team district play next to a seven team district, especially if three-team district has one good team and the seven-team district has four good teams that are playoff worthy? This would help resolve some of that now. Plus, what team wouldn't like control of their own schedule, especially if they knew a tougher schedule could make them more playoff worthy? 

[Tigerfan1]

You lost me at seeding committee, If the 3 team districts are a problem then take one team from the large district and place them in the smaller district, Easy to fix and will only have to travel every other year so the argument of travel is not that big of a deal.

 

If we are going to go to this format why do we even want a playoff? Lets just vote in a champion for each class. Makes just about as much sense as this crap. Sorry brother but i wont buy into this. 

[Hwy17]

I like most of it and think its a move in the right direction.  Like you said, its not a perfect solution, however some of those items proposed have been around before.  I like the idea of 4 district champs and 4 wildcards and we had something similar to this in the early 2000s.  I don't think its right when a 3 team district has a 1-9 team as runner-up automatically getting in the playoffs while a good 7-3 team in a 6 team district sits out.  I think a district should have 4 teams minimum.  Looking at some regions, I don't understand why some small and large districts are back-to-back.  

 

Playoff pairings and brackets:  I don't like the system of district vs district in the early rounds.  I get it that its done for travel, but I've seen one-sided brackets were a 10-0 team plays an 9-1 or 8-2 team in the first round while in the other side of the bracket has a 5-5 team playing that 1-9 team referenced above, so what happens is the 3rd round match-up is a joke.  

 

Point system for strength-of-schedule:  First off, I think points should be awarded for how many games your opponent won, followed by a factor for class; fraction of a point.  As proposed, no class 8a team will want to play down.  Likewise, If i was in a small class, I'm scheduling a weak team from a large class because its easy points,  why would I play a power from another small class?  

 

Again,  I like most of it but some of the details I feel deserve needed debate. 

[Captain Morgan]

There isn't a problem with them leaving, in fact it is causing a solution. They are in fact creating their own private division. The problem is that they allow those schools to be independent in football but participate for state titles in everything else. The solution is simple if they want to go independent fine, but they are independent in EVERY sport. There are zero repercussions for making the move right now. You tell them that if they go independent they are out of the FHSAA in every sport for a minimum of 5 years. Why cave to the 75 schools who can barely participate in a sport. Make them adhere to your policies, don't bend to include them. Probably half of those schools have no business having a football team anyway, not at any competitive level anyway.

[Hwy17]

There isn't a problem with them leaving, in fact it is causing a solution. They are in fact creating their own private division. The problem is that they allow those schools to be independent in football but participate for state titles in everything else. The solution is simple if they want to go independent fine, but they are independent in EVERY sport. There are zero repercussions for making the move right now. You tell them that if they go independent they are out of the FHSAA in every sport for a minimum of 5 years. Why cave to the 75 schools who can barely participate in a sport. Make them adhere to your policies, don't bend to include them. Probably half of those schools have no business having a football team anyway, not at any competitive level anyway.

 

I disagree because it takes a lot more to field a football program than it does a baseball, basketball or any other sport.  

[Joshua Wilson]

Well here is something even more interesting....

 

Of those on the independents list here is the breakdown by conference....

 

SSAC - 31

Southeastern Football - 16

Florida Independent - 5

Gold Coast - 6

North Florida - 9

 

As such that only leaves 6 teams that are playing a true independent schedule. If those schools don't want to be a part of the playoff system that is fine...this is why Florida is need of a two organization system....as in lets have the FHSAA and SSAC co exist and the privates and charter schools can choose where they see the best fit. SSAC can decide who joins and not. It is simple as that.

[SportsNut25]

Love it. 

 

Wish we had it for 2016, but I'll be happy whenever they put it in. 

[DisabledAccount]

 

They could have district champs locked in Then Have wild cards that take best winning percentage among the best SOS to determine who goes So winning against playoff teams will hold more ground then teams who beat teams who are winless Or better yet let wild cards be based off of non conference games so that will encourage people to play better teams

[Joshua Wilson]

I think I need to clarify that I do believe that district champions (regional champions) would get an automatic bid into the playoffs. However, the biggest change would be that runner-ups would have to earn their way through a wildcard. 

 

Still all of this is very fluid and likely tweaks will be made to a proposal. From what I can tell even if the independent teams don't come back these changes could possibly happen. Again still early in the stages for all of this.

[Corey_Davis]

Starting in 2016 untiI further notice I would like to see a playoff system within the Independents.

 

Would have been great to have seen this season

 

North Florida: St. Joseph (10-0)

Gold Coast: Archbishop McCarthy (11-0)

SSAC: Santa Fe Catholic (11-0)

SFC: Coral Springs Charter (11-0)

Fla Independent: Palmer Trinity (5-5)

 

First round

Palmer Trinity at Coral Springs

 

Semis

North: St. Joseph at Santa Fe Catholic

South: Coral Springs at Archbishop McCarthy

 

Final

Play at Bryant Stadium, Lakeland Christian, or Citrus Bowl/UCF

[Corey_Davis]

Also let the Independents play a full 10 game season, the way it stands now is you have Game 9 and 10 as inter league playoff games or title games and Game 11 as your title game.

 

Let them play a 10 full games

11-Conf. playoff/title game

12-Conf playoff/title game 

13-Florida Independent State semi-finals

14-Florida Independent State title game

[09mrslick]

I agree with the whole district thing, but for me It's not fair for a 2-8 team making the playoffs by default and a 7-3 team not making the playoffs. Then again it goes by enrollment. Just because you made the playoffs by default you have to remember only 2 teams get in. So you might be in a 3 team district, whereas another team might be in a 8 game district like 7A out of Miami. You have Alonzo and Tracy Mourning, Sunset, Westland Hialeah, South Miami, Barbara Goleman, Ronald Reagan Doral, Miami Springs, Doral Academy and Mater Academy Charter. Although when your in a 8 team district I guess in a way it shows who wants it more.

[Hwy17]

Thinking back to early 90's when FHSAA changed the rule to allow district runner-ups in the playoffs, the state only had 5 classes and districts had 6-9 teams in them.  Prior to that, it wasn't uncommon for 9-1 teams to be kept out of the playoffs because only district champs got in.  My 10th grade year (1989) my school was in a 9 team district and we had a 4-way tiebreaker to determine the champ. 

[DisabledAccount]

Thinking back to early 90's when FHSAA changed the rule to allow district runner-ups in the playoffs, the state only had 5 classes and districts had 6-9 teams in them.  Prior to that, it wasn't uncommon for 9-1 teams to be kept out of the playoffs because only district champs got in.  My 10th grade year (1989) my school was in a 9 team district and we had a 4-way tiebreaker to determine the champ. 

i think their was serval 7-3 teams that missed the playoffs this year, but a 1-9 eastside team made the playoffs, thats a problem, that should not happen, that part of system needs to be fixed

[Tigerfan1]

Someone that understands how the points will be scored (I Dont) needs to take a look how the 2012 Jefferson county team would have scored out with this format, At the end of the season they where 5 and 5 but ran the table in the playoffs and in convincing fashion and finished with a state championship. That year dist 5 was a 4 team dist and mayo finished the regular season  6 and 4 as the runner up but lost in the first round. My question is would Mayo been awarded the Dist title because of the points system and would Jefferson county had to stay home because they had less regular season wins and maybe less points? 

 

I am not convinced that this is the way to select playoff teams. But at the same time i would like to see dist champs and runner up's from the south and the north face one another in the first and second round, Example Winner dist 8 will face runner up from Dist 4 and so on, Have a cross state rival during the play offs so a dist winner wont have to play the runner up in there dist until the state final's. 

[DisabledAccount]

Can u give me an example of how that would have looked for the 7A bracket columbia is in so Ik Wat it would have been in that scenario u just said

[Title Town]

Explain to me the "true champion" bullet point ? Seems to me we have playoffs that you have to win to the be the "champion" now . Example and I hate the NFL but here goes . The AFC south sucks but you know what ???? The winner of that division gets in the playoffs and another team with a better record in another division goes to the house ! Life is tough sometimes get over it ! 

[Tigerfan1]

Explain to me the "true champion" bullet point ? Seems to me we have playoffs that you have to win to the be the "champion" now . Example and I hate the NFL but here goes . The AFC south sucks but you know what ???? The winner of that division gets in the playoffs and another team with a better record in another division goes to the house ! Life is tough sometimes get over it ! 

 Well said Donut 

I dont understand why some of the mucky muckys always want to change the way the playoffs work or change the classifications every year!! Could it be that it was their team that had to stay home because they finished 3rd place in there dist? 

[Hwy17]

i think their was serval 7-3 teams that missed the playoffs this year, but a 1-9 eastside team made the playoffs, thats a problem, that should not happen, that part of system needs to be fixed

 

Three team districts are just wrong.  Defeats why runner-ups were allowed to be in the playoffs in the first place.  Should be 4 team minimum in a district; 5 or would be better.  Never thought teams with losing records deserve to be in the playoffs; even my own when we got in. 

[Tigerfan1]

Three team districts are just wrong.  Defeats why runner-ups were allowed to be in the playoffs in the first place.  Should be 4 team minimum in a district; 5 or would be better.  Never thought teams with losing records deserve to be in the playoffs; even my own when we got in. 

I agree but the way to fix that is by asking a team from a 6 team dist to move into one of the 3 team dist, not revamp the whole process 

[Hwy17]

If memory serves me right, in the late 90's/early 2000's when there was a wildcard system, there was only 3 districts per region with champs & runner-ups automatically in and 2 wildcards per region.  So the districts were larger.  

[Joshua Wilson]

If memory serves me right, in the late 90's/early 2000's when there was a wildcard system, there was only 3 districts per region with champs & runner-ups automatically in and 2 wildcards per region.  So the districts were larger.  

 

You are right Hwy 17...that is something that I have also advocated as well.

 

Another idea I think is to assign each team a classification and then let the schools choose a conference of like schools they want to be with and they can play each other (guaranteed schedule). North Carolina does this already and it seems to work nicely. But that is just an idea.

[09mrslick]

@Tigerfan1 What you are mentioning occurred in 2015 with Booker T. Washington.