OldSchoolLion

Now I understand. I guess the Lakeland players' eyes got tired in the second half against TB Tech It must be a Naught thing.

What u cryin foul about?. Miami-Dade is one of the three counties, Hillsborough and Palm Beach are not amongst the three. Sure, blame the ref.

When u my age u can be makin those excuses Pinellas is correct.

Only Miami Dade is correct.

14 is Duval. Duval has produced the most private school champions.

Lee is incorrect

Hillsborough is correct!

For those of you who would propose an All-Private league/division, there are a couple of problems. 1. The 16 teams listed below would annihilate many of the remaining 54 teams listed above. There is a substantial lack in parity amongst FL private schools. 2. Of the 16 schools listed below, note the substantial difference in population of boys at each school. Putting all 16 of these teams in one playoff pool puts some schools at a substantial disadvantage. Note that some of the numbers below include students outside grades 9-12. St Thomas Aquinas-1994 students Columbus-1759 students (all boys) American Heritage Plantation-1511 students American Heritage Delray-1026 students Belen Jesuit-849 (all boys) Monsignor Pace-833 students Tampa Jesuit-830 (all boys) Bolles-787 students Tampa Catholic-702 students Clearwater Central Catholic-543 students Chaminade-Madonna-480 students Trinity Christian-332 students University Christian-213 students Champagnat-146 students North Florida Christian-137 students Glades Day-99 students

Do private schools as a whole perform that well in football? The short answer is "not especially," as reflected in the data below. I selected the 70 most well-known private schools in the state(for football) and have listed the title history of each below. Please keep in mind that many of these schools have been around for a long time. There are a number of schools that are 50 years old that have never won a title. If several of these teams had not had the success they did over the years, the private school debate might be a non-issue, or at least a less talked-about one. So, when we talk about the private school advantage, we should remember that the vast majority of private schools have not done a disproportionate amount of winning. Some interesting statistics: 23/70(33%) private schools listed below have won at least one state title. So, 2/3 of private schools have never won a state title. 31/80(39%) of the private schools below have never appeared in a state title game. These 23 teams have won a combined 84 state titles out of a total of 308 state titles awarded by the FHSAA. So, private schools have won 27% of the FHSAA state titles awarded. Approximately 2/3 of all state titles won by private schools over the past 55 years were won by one of 6 teams. (Bolles, STA, University Chr., NFC, Trinity Chr., and Glades Day) 69 of those 84 titles (82%) were won by one of 10 schools listed below. The other 60 private schools won a total of 15 titles between them, 12 of them within the past 25 years. Bolles-11 state titles St Thomas Aquinas-11 University Christian-9 North Florida Christian-8 Trinity Christian-7 Glades Day-7 Chaminade-Madonna-5 American Heritage Plantation-4 Champagnat-4 American Heritage Delray-3 State Title History of 70 Private Schools Note: Teams that have won at least one state title are italicized. Admiral Farragut 2011 2A runner-up American Heritage Delray 2007(1A), 2009(1A), and 2011(3A) titles; 2002(A), 2010(1A), 2013(3A) and 2014(3A) runners-up American Heritage Plantation 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017 5A title; 1998 2A runner-up Archbishop Carroll no titles Archbishop Curley no titles Archbishop McCarthy no titles Belen Jesuit 2009 3A runner-up Benjamin 1978, 1979, 1992 A runner-up, 1994 2A runner-up Berkeley Prep no titles Bishop Kenny no titles Bishop Moore 1970(A) and 2015(5A) title Bishop Verot 1990(2A) and 1994(3A) runner-up Bolles 11 state titles; 5 runner-up Calvary Christian no titles Cardinal Gibbons 2018 5A champion; 1990 3A runner-up Cardinal Mooney 1972 A champion Chaminade-Madonna 2003(2A), 2005(2A), 2017(3A), 2018(3A) title, 2019(3A) title; 1974(3A), 2002(2A), 2017(3A) runner-up Champagnat 2013, 2017, 2018, 2019 2A champion Clearwater Central Catholic 2013 3A runner-up Columbus 1980(4A) runner-up, 1982(4A) runner-up, 2014(8A) runner-up, 2018(8A)runner-up, 2019 champion Dade Christian 2012 2A runner-up Episcopal(Jacksonville) no titles Evangelical Christian 2005 1B title Father Lopez no titles First Academy no titles Florida Christian no titles Glades Day 7 state titles and 7 runners-up Gulliver Prep 2000 2A title, 2008 2A runner-up Hollywood Christian no titles Holy Trinity (Melbourne) no titles Immaculata-Lasalle no titles Indian Rocks Christian 2014 2A runner-up Jesuit 1968 A title, 1992 3A runner-up John Carroll no titles John Paul II (Jacksonville) no titles Jupiter Christian 2007 and 2008 1B titles Keswick Christian no titles King’s Academy 2018 3A runner-up Lake Highland Prep no titles Melbourne Central Catholic no titles Monsignor Pace 2003 3A title North Broward Prep no titles North Florida Christian 8 titles and 3 runners-up Northside Christian no titles Orangewood Christian no titles Oxbridge Academy 2017 3A runner-up Palmer Trinity no titles Pensacola Catholic 2004 2B runner-up Pine Crest no titles Pope JP II (Boca Raton) no titles Ransom Everglades no titles St Andrew’s no titles St Edward’s 1989 A runner-up St John Neumann no titles St Pete Catholic no titles St Thomas Aquinas 11 titles and 8 runners-up Santa Fe Catholic no titles Shorecrest Prep 1975 and 1976 A runners-up Tampa Catholic 2007 and 2009 2A runners-up Trinity Catholic 2005 and 2010 2B titles; 2006 and 2008 2B runners-up Trinity Christian (Deltona) no titles Trinity Christian (Jacksonville) 7 titles, 2 runners-up Trinity Prep 1971 and 1977 A runner-up University Christian 9 titles and 1 runner-up University School 2012 3A title, 2010 2B runner-up Victory Christian 2014 2A title, 2006 1B runner-up, 2013 2A runner-up Warner Christian 2008, 2009 and 2010 1B runner-up Westminster Academy 1990 A title, 1991 A runner-up Westminster Christian 1973 A runner-up Village Academy no titles

ahhh...the days when Cocoa had a defense

States Where Private Schools Play Private Schools in Playoffs Texas-Private Leagues Washington DC-Catholic League Maryland-Private League New Jersey-Private League North Carolina-Private Leagues States Where Private Schools Play Public Schools in Playoffs Pennsylvania-Philadelphia-area private school powers, ie St Joseph's and Archbishop Wood, play together in Philadelphia Catholic League during regular season; some private schools in PA play in leagues with public schools; all private schools play against public schools with similar populations in playoffs; PA recently expended to 6 classes in 2017 and private schools are spread throughout the classes Southern California-Private school powers play together in Trinity League during regular season; play against much larger public schools in competitive Div 1 CIF Southern Section Ohio-Private school powers, ie St Ignatius and St Edward's in Div 1), play in very competitive divisions with public schools Missouri-Christian Brothers-plays in Catholic League during regular season; face public schools in competitive Class 6(Missouri's largest) playoffs Hawaii-Private schools St Louis and Punahao compete with public school power Kahuku in the Div 1 & Open playoffs. These 3 teams have dominated Hawaii in recent years. Pennsylvania is the state that reminds me the most of FL. They expanded to 6 classes in 2017 and now there is even more potential to have multiple private school state champions. There is St Joe's in 6A, Malvern Prep and Archbishop Wood in 5A, and the 1A-4A classes each have multiple private school powers. There is a legitimate possibility of having 6 private school state champions in Pennsylvania. We all know southern California is loaded with private school powers. Come playoff time, though, there is a handicap. With the exception of Mater Dei, many of these private school powers have less than 1000 students. They are playing against highly-ranked public schools public schools such as Long Beach Poly (4400 students), Upland (3400 students), Centennial (3300 students), and Mission Viejo (2400 students) with much larger populations, and in an area with a rich talent pool. Though the private schools have the upper hand, there are a number of public schools in southern CA who can certainly hold their own against them. So, what's the point? As best I can tell, the situation we have in FL with private school powers spread amongst multiple classes they can potentially dominate, is not common. The closest thing I have found is Pennsylvania in their 3A and 4A classes, but the level of domination has not been quite as extreme.

A private school has faced a public school in 85 FHSAA state finals, all listed further below. Private schools have won 45 and public schools have won 40. Coming into 2016, it was tied 36-36, but private schools have pulled slightly ahead since then. Since 2000, private schools are 31-19 in those matchups. Public schools had the advantage prior to 2000. Since 1990, there has been at least one private vs public school state final each year except for 2002. Below are 10 teams that have been involved in a number of these matchups. St Thomas Aquinas(STA) is 11-8 against public schools in state finals. Bolles is 7-6 against public schools in state finals. North Florida Christian(NFC)is 5-0 against public schools in state finals. (all against Ft Meade) American Heritage Plantation is 4-0 against public schools in state finals. Glades Day is 3-5 against public schools in state finals. Lakeland is 5-1 against private schools in state finals. (all against STA) FAMU is 4-1 against private schools in state finals. Booker T Washington is 4-1 against private schools in state finals. (all against Bolles) Pahokee is 3-2 against private school teams in state finals. Baker is 3-2 against private schools in state finals. (all against Glades Day) Public School vs Private School State Final Matchups over Time 2019 Columbus over Apopka 2019 STA over Edgewater 2019 BT Washington over Bolles 2019 Chaminade-Madonna over FSU 2018 Mandarin over Columbus 2018 Lakeland over STA 2018 Cardinal Gibbons over North Marion 2017 American Heritage Plantation over Baker County 2016 STA over Plant 2016 American Heritage Plantation over Ponte Vedra 2016 Cocoa over Bolles 2015 STA over Viera 2015 Bishop Moore over Wakulla 2014 Apopka over Columbus 2014 STA over Osceola 2014 American Heritage Plantation over Godby 2014 BT Washington over Bolles 2013 American Heritage Plantation over Clay 2013 BT Washington over Bolles 2012 STA over Lincoln 2012 BT Washington over Bolles 2012 University School over Madison County 2011 Bolles over BT Washington 2011 American Heritage Delray over Madison County 2010 STA over Plant 2009 Pensacola over Belen Jesuit 2008 STA over Lakeland 2008 Pahokee over Trinity Catholic 2008 NFC over Ft Meade 2007 STA over Osceola 2007 Madison County over Tampa Catholic 2007 Jupiter Christian over FAMU 2006 Lakeland over STA 2006 Bolles over Clewiston 2006 Pahokee over Trinity Catholic 2006 FAMU over Victory Christian 2005 Lakeland over STA 2005 Chaminade over South Sumter 2005 Trinity Catholic over Pahokee 2005 Evangel Christian over Graceville 2004 Lakeland over STA 2004 Bolles over Jefferson 2004 Pahokee over Pensacola Catholic 2003 Chaminade over Madison County 2003 NFC over Ft Meade 2001 Lincoln over STA 2001 NFC over Ft Meade 2000 Pine Forest over STA 2000 Gulliver over Marianna 2000 NFC over Ft Meade 1999 STA over Escambia 1999 Frostproof over Trinity Christian 1999 NFC over FT Meade 1998 Bolles over Pahokee 1997 STA over Rutherford 1996 Lakeland over STA 1996 Bartow over Bolles 1995 Bolles over Hardee 1994 Union County over Bishop Verot 1993 Bolles over Lake Wales 1993 Graceville over Glades Day 1992 STA over Leon 1992 Pasco over Jesuit 1991 Fort Walton Beach over STA 1990 Suwanee over Cardinal Gibbons 1988 Graceville over Glades Day 1986 Bolles over Palmetto 1986 Glades Day over Century 1985 Baker over Glades Day 1984 Baker over Glades Day 1983 Baker over Glades Day 1982 Woodham over Columbus 1982 Glades Day over Baker 1980 Tate over Columbus 1980 Glades Day over Baker 1979 Ernest Ward over Benjamin 1978 FAMU over Benjamin 1977 FAMU over Trinity Prep 1976 FAMU over Shorecrest 1975 Greensboro over Shorecrest 1974 Ocala Forest over Chaminade 1972 Cardinal Mooney over Wewahitchka 1971 Hastings over Trinity Prep 1970 Bishop Moore over Shanks 1968 Jesuit over Kathleen Quote

Over the past 50 years neither Tampa Jesuit, Tampa Catholic nor or Berkeley Prep have won a state title. As I have stated elsewhere, we don't a private school problem. We have an issue with a relative few private, powerhouse programs.

I love ya man.

No matter which direction you come, the drive to Clewiston is a whole lotta nothin.

3 questions to go. C'mon, #9 is easy. #8 and #10 are a bit tricky. 8. Which was the first county to have 3 or more schools(public and/or private) in the state finals? 9. Which 2 counties have had 3 or more private schools in a state final in one year? 10. Which was the first county to have 2 different teams each play in back-to-back state finals? I am adding questions... 11. Which 3 counties have the most public school state champions? In other words, these counties have the highest number of different public schools who have won at least one FHSAA title. 12. In terms of population, this is the largest county NOT to have a back-to-back state champion. 13. In terms of population, this is the largest county NOT to have a state champion. 14. Private schools in this county have won more combined state titles than private schools in any other county. Which county?

There you go. Orange had Apopka, Edgewater and Jones last year!

I agree. And if we had a relegation system, as discussed in other threads, the elite privates would work their way up in class, where they would not be as dominant. If the Broward privates were routinely facing the Miami-Dade powers in the playoffs, we would see fewer state titles out of those private schools. -STA's last playoff game versus a strong Miami team was in 2003 versus Edison, and STA lost at home. South Dade gave STA battles in the 90's and Homestead did the same the 80's. -AHP got taken out by Miami Jackson in 2011 and 2012 and Northwestern last year. -Cardinal Gibbons is 1-4 in their last 5 playoff games versus Miami-Dade schools

Miami-Dade 2013 South Dade, Miami Central, BT Washington, Champagnat-all won state titles); 2019 MD had 5 Palm Beach 2009 Glades Day, AH Delray, Dwyer, Glades Central-ALL EXCEPT GC won a state title. I won't mention the team that beat GC that year, but I will give you a preview of your Christmas present muckboy. If its any consolation, Keem told me that the Raiders were definitely #2 that year.

There is a hard lesson for the kids today...do something to damage your reputation and you are gonna pay for it for a long time. This is one of the downsides of computers. In the old days, unless someone was inclined to go the library and search microfiche, you could escape your past, to some extent. It is very unforgiving today.

I apologize for the confusion. I was thinking in terms of whether it was justified for refs to end the Ohio game and, in essence, punish the whole team for the actions on one player.

The following made a lot of press in Ohio. In 2018, there was a brawl in a regular season game involving Dunbar vs Bishop Fenwick, a private school. After suing, Dunbar was allowed to play in the state tournament, and employed the strategy in the second link to win against Fenwick. When all the dust settled, it was determined that Dunbar was culpable in the brawl. https://dayton247now.com/news/local/dps-admits-mistake-puts-new-sanctions-on-dunbar-after-new-video-of-basketball-brawl https://usatodayhss.com/2018/how-standing-around-won-a-playoff-basketball-game-in-ohio One article I read had the following quote from a Dunbar football player....(The OHSAA), they’re always picking on Dunbar,” said Scates, a talented receiver who signed with Iowa State University to play football. “It’s like a tradition, now. There’s a lot of doubt that goes on in the city against Dunbar. We take that as motivation and use it to our advantage.”

I read up on this game, which took place last year. The kid who headbutted the ref was from Dunbar High, a historically black high school in Dayton, OH. It was Dunbar's first game of the season against private school Roger Bacon from Cincinnati. A little less than midway through the second quarter, and Dunbar already had 12 flags thrown against it....and were losing by 15 points The article stated that Bacon's coach was told before the game it would be "tightly officiated." I wonder why? Dunbar was badly beaten by a private school in the opener the prior season. In Ohio, there is quite a bit of tension between private schools and public schools because private schools have done a lot of winning there, going back to the Archbishop Moeller days.

I would encourage you to search this Forum. There are a lot of threads on this topic. There is not a simple solution. The vast majority of private school football programs in Florida are nowhere near the talent level of the schools on your list. If there was a 32-team private school playoff, the first round games could be utter annihilation. Imagine St Thomas Aquinas playing Somerset Academy in a first round private school playoff game. As it was, Chaminade-Madonna beat them 52-0. And amongst the elite private schools, of which there are relatively few, there are substantial differences in school populations. For example, Chaminade-Madonna has about one quarter the population of St Thomas Aquinas, so its potentially an unfair fight. We have a somewhat unique situation in Florida concerning our private schools.

Dade-yes Palm Beach-no Hillsborough-yes Polk-yes