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  1. Well, I know that I, for one, can go to bed tonight and rest peacefully knowing that no coaches, assistant coaches, handlers or other representatives of any Florida high school football program will reach out to any of these players or their families to 'discuss their options.'
    5 points
  2. You are correct. But here's the point that I think is being made. 'Back then' the teams in the metro areas were, in theory, constrained by district boundaries. A kid could only go to Central if they lived in the Central district (again, in theory). So, Central's talent pool was limited to the kids who lived in the Central district. Just like Pahokee's talent pool was limited to the kids who lived in Pahokee's district. Now, with school choice, and as a practical matter, Pahokee's talent pool (and the talent pool of all the other rural schools) is essentially still limited to the kids who live in that relatively-sparse geographic area. Contrast that with Central, who now has the ability to legally pull in any kid from Dade County. Yes, they are competing against other schools, like Northwestern, for that top talent, but recent history seems to suggest that only a small handful of teams are going to end up with the vast majority of the top talent. To oversimplify, if one rural high school football team has a thousand kids to pick from (including gamers, trombone players, theater buffs, etc.) and a metro high school football team has a hundred thousand kids to pick from (because district lines really don't matter any more), which team is more likely to end up with a group of thirty talented football players? Now, it wouldn't surprise me at all if a rural team, like Pahokee, could beat the bottom-feeder teams in the metro area, because all the talented kids from those metro teams ended up at the super-power de jure. But when it comes time for playoffs, the rural team likely won't stand a chance against the metro power. And, yes, there will be exceptions along the way, but for the most part, the numbers won't lie.
    5 points
  3. I’m waiting for someone to blame this on Lakeland too.
    4 points
  4. Someone left LG and didn't go to Lakeland!? I'm shocked!
    4 points
  5. My issue is that the metro proponents have been whining for 2 years that the enrollment spreads in the Metro classifications were unjustly impacting the fortunes of metro teams. Now that they have gotten their wish with enrollment-based classification, I am curious as to which teams will see a change in fortune as a result. My contention is Miami Central will still be Miami Central, and North Miami Beach (for example) will still be North Miami Beach, regardless of classification system. So what is to be derived from changing the classification system, other than more blowouts in the playoffs? As to your premise regarding the number of classes in general, I would agree that a playoff system in which more than 50% of the teams in a class make the playoffs suggests there are either too many classes or too many playoff spots awarded within a given class.
    4 points
  6. I’m looking for 2024 schedules not 2023
    3 points
  7. Some schools never have a prayer of winning a state title, especially in today's age. Call them exhibition games for all I care. Just give them more games. More games, more money. More games, more exposure. As long as we don't confuse it for what it is not, I don't see an issue.
    3 points
  8. I do like the mention of adapting the Georgia model of cross-region bracketing and think it would be worth considering for all classifications. This would allow two teams from the same District/Region to meet in the state finals, rather than one team being eliminated in the Region finals. If AHP and Norland (now both in District 4A-15) happen to be the two best teams in 4A this year, it would seem more desirable to have them meet in the state finals, or at least the state semi-finals. The issue of travel has been pointed out as a deterrent to the Georgia model in Florida, but perhaps it could at least be utilized in a "North" and "South" bracket.
    3 points
  9. I don't hate this as a concept if you just look at it as just "more football" for kids/coaches/fans. I personally wouldn't hate having a "B" bracket so long as the winner of said bracket is not considered a state champion...because they're not. But more football isn't a bad thing, it is just all about perspective. You cannot call these teams state champions. I am concerned this is just a cash grab from the FHSAA though. If they can "prove" that it works in the rural divisions, then they can have more football games at the higher levels of classification and rake in the money....
    3 points
  10. He's a high school sports fan. Kind of like me. I watch the super bowl, and the National Championship college game, and, if UCF is having a really good year, I may attend a home game as my wife is an alum. But aside from that, I watch High School sports, especially football. I guess it's because it used to reflect the game at its purest, where the great majority of the participants will end their careers when they graduate. Unfortunately, it has lost much of its purity over the past 25 seasons.
    3 points
  11. To the contrary. I'm all about parents and kids having all the information that they can get. And if they want to reach out for information, that's fine. But until the FHSAA changes the rules, it remains illegal for schools/coaches to reach out to parents and kids to encourage them to consider their school. And that happens. And that's wrong.
    3 points
  12. Those talking about an "OPEN DIVISION" comprised of 24-32 teams are overlooking reality. As I have previously stated, it is my view that the top 10% FL HS teams (roughly 50 teams) tend to follow the rules with a few exceptions. However, when we zero in on the top 1% (roughly 6-8 teams) of FL HS teams they most certainly "RECRUIT". Thus, I fully agree with your take on an open division comprised of only those 8 teams, as only one of them would win the championship each and every year leaving the other 40 odd excellent programs to continually be second fiddles despite doing everything right. Also fully support having districts comprised of a minimum of 5-6 teams with fewer classifications.
    3 points
  13. I think he's trying to set a trap. Seriously, my guess is that he's had/having a hard time getting teams to schedule Deland because of their recent success (and likely because teams don't want to play against Darlington-style offenses unless and until they have to). So, he's taking a page out of playbook of former Georgia coach, Vince Dooley, who was notorious for talking down his team's chances of success. In short, he's trying to entice potential opponents to catch Deland while they're down, knowing that they're not that down and knowing that they need games.
    3 points
  14. I may have an unpopular opinion on this subject, but I really don't have a problem with more than 50% of the teams making the playoffs. Half of those teams will likely lose their first round game, many by large margins (although the teams on the winning side of the blowouts, if smart, will rest starters and give quality playing time to kids that have paid their dues all season and/or kids who will be returning next season). But if some relatively weak teams get to play a single playoff game, so what? The kids get to play one more high school football game than they otherwise would have. I don't have a problem with that. More gate money to share (assuming it doesn't all go the FHSAA, which I don't believe is the case for early-round games). Boosters get to sell more hot dogs at the concession stand. The bands and cheerleaders get one more Friday night under the lights. And thirty to forty years from now, when the kids from the losing team are overweight and out-of-shape, they can go on a high school football message board and brag about the time they played in a high school playoff game. Again, I'm OK with that.
    3 points
  15. So, hear me out on this. A QB left Polk County to attend a school in the Tampa Bay/Hillsborough County area as a junior. That means Venice can go after him next year.
    3 points
  16. Would any of our metro posters be able to identify Metro teams which were handicapped by the old Metro-Suburban classification, but now will be able to make deep playoff runs under the new system? For example, which formerly beaten down 2M teams will develop overnight into 2A or 3A contenders? My contention is a 3-7 team in 2M will be a 3-7 team in 2A or 3A, but I'm ready to be proven wrong. Or they may have to come up with other excuses now that things are more "fair".
    3 points
  17. Four road games?!?! How is Venice going to make their numbers work??
    2 points
  18. Isn't this basically what the Sunshine State Athletic Association did at the end of this past season -- where every team participated in some form of post-season play and the teams were grouped together based on their records/rankings? I'm wondering if this is a proactive effort to keep football alive and kicking in the rural areas. Regardless, I'm not a fan of the 'bottom half' of any classification being able to compete for a "state championship."
    2 points
  19. @nolebull813 thanks for posting this. I took the time to leaf through the yearbook. It was quite informative, especially for a man originally from Jamaica. From beginning to the end of their journey, the graduating class shrunk by more than 80%. To put that into perspective, that's an alarming but understandable rate for the times. I have no idea how that graduating class fared in their lives. WW2 was not that far off; the Great Depression was dead ahead; and the USA was a lot less hospitable to those of us "not blessed" with a certain ancestry. I don't know what motivated you to post this, but want to express my appreciation to you for doing so.
    2 points
  20. Didn't know that, now today that game plays much differently lol
    2 points
  21. My answer to this question is pretty simple: If IMG is willing to play by the same rules as all other FHSAA member schools, whatever those rules may be, then, yes, they should be able to compete for a state title. If IMG is not willing to play by the same rules as all other FHSAA member schools, whatever those rules may be, then, no, they should not be able to complete for a state title.
    2 points
  22. I'm here for the conversation and that doesn't mean we have to agree all the time. Healthy discussion never hurt anyone unless you're a P**** . It's funny you mention 2010. Just last week, I was thinking why in the world did the FHSAA pick 2010 as the baseline starting point for the m/s/r agenda. Looking at trends, the scales tipped in favor of metro counties in 2002 but really exploded when the state went to 7 classes. Like you, I have a day job and didn't take it any deeper than that. It's all a numbers game, lol.
    2 points
  23. 8-16 sounds about right. It would remove all the real powerhouse teams while not forcing some very good, but not great teams, into a group with the best of the best where they would have little chance of ever winning it all.
    2 points
  24. A 32 team open division would destroy the credibility and water down the other classes. An 8 team open division would put the super teams in one division while maintaining some competitiveness in the other classes.
    2 points
  25. 6-8 teams that recruit seems a tad bit low. Come on. That might make up the teams that recruit in Dade and Broward county alone. The real number of football factories that recruit is is closer to 24-32. Take out top 24-32 and let them beat each other up since they disregard the FHSAA rules anyway
    2 points
  26. First off, comparing high school athletics to college is an apple to an orange. Colleges are supposed to recruit as they offer scholarships for coming to play for them. Secondly, the purpose of school choice was started for academic purposes, so parents can find the best option for their children. I personally support the concept, but what we see happening with athletics wasn't what school choice was intended for. As I stated earlier, I have no problem with a transfer when there is indeed a legitimate move. But what I have observed is certain schools poaching players from neighboring schools through one tactic or another.
    2 points
  27. Pahokee is about as rural as it gets yet they were able to compete with anybody in the state for years in the first decade of the 2000's. People weren't sending their kids from the metro areas to attend that school.
    2 points
  28. If we look back at the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s Yeah there were some teams cheating and some even got caught but it was nothing compared to what's happened since a certain governor now senator signed into law and a one party majority in the state legislature and governor's office has since defended at every turn when they passed school choice into law There is no turning back to what we had pre 2010 in terms of competition in this state and it's gonna be proven when we see any rural team make the finals and face a metro school. They won't just lose at states they will get their teeth kicked down their throats and will be out of the game by halftime. There is no hope or chance of a team like Baker or Columbia or Suwannee EVER winning a state title again if they have to face a metro school like Central or AHP or whomever because there's no way to get around a public school who can pull from a county of 3m people and get the best players they can possibly choose from these counties It will never happen in football because the game favors metro cheaters and the state has made it clear they don't give a crap about teams being competitive as long as it creates chaos which is what these people WANT so they can slowly defund public schools to save the state money The sooner people realize this and start pushing back against politicians sticking their nose where it doesn't belong in our sports programs the better
    2 points
  29. The problem is metro suburban is the CLOSEST they will ever come to actually doing what your describing The FHSAA and the committees will never actually pass open division as one the people on that advisory committee still refuse to acknowledge the gap between metro recruiters and the rest of Florida and two because certain teams will fight against any system that will make their playoff road harder After all why would Miami Central or AHP want to face each other in a state title game when they can get a Baker County or Columbia instead It's easier to beat teams that can't pull from over 1m+ people for their talent like the metros can
    2 points
  30. Yup. Looks like they were able to force Mainland's hand to keep the rivalry alive. Mainland agreed to move their game against Deland from week 1 to week 7 lol. Deland should have the offense running smooth by then. They are also scheduled to play Eau Gallie as well, who has been begging for a game with Cocoa lol
    2 points
  31. I think he is saying this because he doesn’t want to play any good teams. He won 50-3, 60-18 and 70-12. Don’t feel bad for them. They want more of the same
    2 points
  32. Cherry picking players from the surrounding area schools proves what, that you can beat student-body teams with your all star team? What's the point? It's not cheating but nor is it fair and nor is it in the spirit of high school football. Yes, we can argue this until the cows come home so no point in doing so as we won't change in each other's minds on this topic.
    2 points
  33. Technically, I believe he must first be Tampa Gaither's starting QB before Peacock comes calling.
    2 points
  34. He's auditioning at Sumner for his real dream to be on the Venice team!
    2 points
  35. I asked this earlier, but if public schools don't have to be members of the FHSAA or even if they do and decide to go independent, what stops schools from creating their own "state championship" similar to what SIAA has been doing. I know the SIAA has been mostly "small" schools and for the most part schools that can't really compete for state championships and this gives them something to compete for. I truly believe this is a reaction to the state's meddling in the FHSAA and basically kowtowing to private schools and other favored interests. But please don't think for a second, that small schools aren't recruiting or trying to find ways around the rules. Look to Williston football and basketball, look to Bradford, look to Madison County. I have said for years, create a promotion/relegation system that moves good teams up and bad teams down and allows mediocre teams to compete among themselves. Allow the teams that are bent on winning at all costs, compete against each other. It hurts to lose a player you built for 3 years to another school. It hurts twice as hard to have that player line across from you for a district or regional game on the line.
    2 points
  36. No one is cheating. Every school in the state has the same opportunity to choice in talent. It’s not South Florida’s fault for having way more talent and more concentrated talent. I do agree teams that have zero chance to win a title should secede from the FHSAA and let the real teams compete. But in doing so they need to cut the classes down
    2 points
  37. Just kidding. If they are able to attract talent the same way Plant and Armwood did many moons ago then yeah they could emerge as a true title contender. They do need to beef up their schedule or you won’t know much about them till the playoffs.
    2 points
  38. You’re right. I’m wrong. I’ll go slap myself in shame now
    2 points
  39. lol before I even read this post just going off the topic I was thinking to myself “Hey maybe something we could be good at up here” (Vero). If something like that would happen I do know our boosters have deep pockets. Hopefully though this doesn’t happen, the sport has already been messed with enough.
    2 points
  40. It's friggin' January. You've got the kids who transferred from one school to another prior to the start of this semester. You've got the kids who will transfer before Spring practice starts. You've got the kids who will transfer after Spring practice ends. You've got the kids who will transfer over the summer because they played 7 on 7 with some kids from some other school. You've got the kids who will transfer because somebody somewhere promised to give them or their family something if they switched schools. In short, it's really hard to predict how good this team or that team is going to be in the fall because no one knows what each school's roster is going to look like come August. For high school football players, August is a lifetime away. But Central and Northwestern will probably both be pretty good.
    2 points
  41. Last season they only had 2
    1 point
  42. So, the Rural B State Champion would, at best, be the 17th best rural team in the state, huh? Hmmmm.
    1 point
  43. As you know I research the history of football in the state. I have a specific folder for all the historically black football teams before 1967 when they either closed or joined the FHSAA. As I was researching the teams from Tampa (Middleton, Blake, and Thompson) I stumbled upon Booker T Washington that I had not heard of. Come to find out they are the oldest historically black school to play football in Tampa. Older than the other 3 mentioned. So as I started to research more I came across the yearbook. I was grateful to find it because not only did it confirm the 1st year they started playing football which is sometimes really hard to find, but they showed the results as well. I too caught myself reading the entire yearbook in amazement and even busted out laughing at the goofy dad jokes at the end. Lol.
    1 point
  44. Only black schools in dade during the late 60s were mays, carver, northwestern & booker t (I may be wrong because they converted to a middle school around that same time). There were some outliers but most football teams did not integrate til the late 60s.
    1 point
  45. 1968 regular season game Melbourne beat Norland 25-18 after Lynn Blackman for Melbourne busted 2 long touchdowns runs in the 4th quarter to seal the game
    1 point
  46. What is often missed in these discussions is the fact that, almost always, players/families CHOOSE to play for the powers. We see families pick up and move to a new area just so their kid can play for a particular program. Or, they willingly commute a further distance to play for a preferred program. This narrative of there being bad guys at a few programs going out and rounding up all the best players through bribes or coercion is silly. Players seek the best opportunities for themselves, just like they do when they pick a college to play for. No one expects college teams to end up with equal talent. No one sees Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State etc ending up with a disproportionate share of talent and thinks 'Gosh, they HAD to have cheated. How else would they get all those good players?" Those programs have a proven record of success, and players often seek THEM out. For some reason, when it comes to high school, people get up in arms if a handful of programs end up with the best players. They demand an equal share of talent for high schools. This despite the fact that they do NOT think this way when it comes to other areas like academics or the arts. No one begrudges the parents who seek residency in the zone of top academic schools. No one accuses the top academic schools of "cheating" when they end up with a disproportionate share of motivated and/or gifted students. The logical inconsistency is amusing and annoying.
    1 point
  47. A meeting was held last night with multiple high profile coaches/ADs/administrators/superintendents in North Florida to discuss the creation of a new association/conference. Some of these same people will be heading out to the panhandle next week to meet with coaches/ADs/administrators/superintendents. More to come.
    1 point
  48. Just another example.... Can you imagine running a business like the FHSAA is ran?
    1 point
  49. Too funny. Classic “Oh Woe is me” Rick.
    1 point
  50. I didn't know you were allowed to say that on a message board.
    1 point
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