OldSchoolLion

There were 7 classes in 2003(6A, 5A, 4A, 3A, 2A, 2B, 1A). In this all-classification poll from 2003, 19/39(49%) teams listed below were in classes 1A, 2B, 2A, 3A. In ColumbiaFan's 2018 pre-season poll, 7/50(14%) teams were from the lower classes (1A-4A). It helps us to see how the lower classes have become degraded and, IMO, unexciting compared to the past. Rnk School Class W-L pts1 Melbourne Palm Bay 5A 9-0 2952 Madison County 2A 8-0-1 2883 Miami Northwestern 6A 9-0 2784 Daytona Beach Mainland 5A 8-0 2625 Jacksonville Bolles 3A 8-0 2386 Tallahassee Lincoln 4A 8-1 2307 Lake City Columbia 4A 8-1 2158 Pahokee 2B 9-0 2069 Seffner Armwood 4A 9-0 20310 Miami Edison 5A 8-1 18011 Miami Carol City 6A 8-1 17912 Sarasota Booker 3A 9-0 17013 Belle Glade Glades Central 3A 9-0 15214 Hollywood Chaminade Prep 2A 8-1 13715 Pompano Beach Ely 6A 8-1 13516 Jacksonville Trinity Chr. A 8-0 10517 Orlando Edgewater 6A 7-2 10218 Miami Southridge 6A 8-1 9019 Palm Beach Gardens 6A 9-0 8020 Lakeland Kathleen 3A 9-0 5921 Green Cove Springs Clay 3A 8-1 5522 Plantation 6A 8-1 5423 Deerfield Beach 6A 8-1 3724 Tampa Jefferson 3A 8-1 2625 Naples 5A 8-1 1925 Cross City Dixie County 2B 9-0 19OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES:Port St. Lucie Centennial (4A, 9-0) 18; Fort Lauderdale St. Thomas Aquinas (5A, 7-2) 14; Palatka (3A, 8-1) 13; Fort Myers (4A, 7-2) 7; Lakeland Lake Gibson (4A, 7-2) 6; Hollywood McArthur (5A, 8-1) 5; Delray Beach American Heritage (A, 10-0) 5; Jacksonville Raines (3A, 7-1) 5; Crawfordville Wakulla (2A, 8-1) 4; St. Augustine (3A, 6-2) 3; Cocoa (3A, 7-2) 2; Middleburg (3A, 6-3) 2; Live Oak Suwannee (3A, 6-3) 1; Miami Palmetto (6A, 7-1) 1.

Please note additions to 4 of the teams below-in bold. Adds to the case that these teams could be exciting this year.. Dunnellon(4A)-The Tigers are 29-7 over the past 3 seasons. Maurice Goolsby, a 4-star WR and FSU commit, is one of the top playmakers in the state. And Jaquvion "Baby J" Fraziars , one of the top juniors in the state, is a big 4-star Athlete with multiple Power 5 offers. Dunbar(5A)-The Tigers are 28-6 the past 3 seasons. Seneca Milledge, a 3-star RB and University of Virginia commit, is a playmaker on both sides of the ball with lots of speed. Jadarius McKnight is one of the top juniors in the state. The 4-star Athlete is committed to FSU. And Derick Hunter, a 4-star DE and FSU commit, is one of the top defensive linemen in the state. Naples(6A)-The Golden Eagles have one of the most seasoned coaches in the state, Bill Kramer, and a long history of winning. Chez Mellusi, a 4-star RB and Clemson commit, is one of the top playmakers in the state. Dominic Mamarelli is one of the top juniors in the state. The 4-star TE is a UM commit. Fletcher(7A)-The Senators have been hanging around this decade, showing promise. No idea if they will break out anytime soon, but can say they have one of the top playmakers in the state. Jeremiah Payton is a 4-star WR and UM commit. And Devon Lingle, one of the top junior QB's in the state, is a 3-star recruit who already has multiple FBS offers.

Seriously, you need to start looking around, and I think you will find that there are many wonderful things about Columbia beyond its high school. No more talk young man...that is your homework assignment. Please report back to us something you learn. I would start with the people who live there. THEY are what makes Lake City/Columbia County...not a building. I bet there is some elderly person sitting in a nursing home there that could tell you some stories about your hometown that would blow your mind.

Well, if one is going to undertake a Top 50 all-classification poll, I think it necessitates some "serious digging." With some work, a person could find most, if not all of the information I mentioned above on the internet...even opinions of people from the area, ie local newspaper articles with team previews. The only way I might have more information concerning a certain team might be if I know a coach who can give me inside information, and most of us don't know that many coaches who we talk to regularly, unless one is a reporter. Sure, watching a team might make me familiar with them, but it does little to tell me how they might perform against a certain team from another part of the state. So what if "my team" is better than ever this year...it's relative. That is where some serious homework is needed.

Just curious...who are these people? Did a fellow named "Tony" talk to you about Columbia while you were growing up? If you don't get it, watch "The Shining."

I don't agree. Someone doing their due diligence would put aside their bias and consider the following in evaluating a team, amongst other things: Who is the head coach? Does the team have coaching continuity this decade? How talented/experienced is their qb? Do they have any big-time playmakers on offense and defense who could dominate a game? Does the team have multiple D1 linemen? ....regular season records the past 3-5 seasons...relatively consistent or up and down? ...is record deceiving due to quality of competition? ....playoff performance this decade. Do they demonstrate a consistent ability to peak in the post-season, or do they tend to crash? ...the "Legacy Factor." Teams like Aquinas, Armwood, Northwestern just know how to win, no matter who they have playing for them.

You have an inferiority complex about your team, even though they are one of the most consistent programs in the state historically. Why do you need constant affirmation?

On behalf of all of the old dinosaurs on the board...I would like to share this moment of triumph with you. After years of being ridiculed by Millenials for our ineptitude with computers and out-of-touch communication styles. And being made fun of because we thought our son's new girlfriend was named Siri. Not to mention the shame we were subjected to for holding on to our treasured flip phones years after they were no longer cool. .....today a MIllenial is asking us for help finding information. Every dog has his day, and today is ours fellow "old guys." I am going to McDonald's to celebrate with a senior's coffee. Too bad I cannot figure out how to connect to the WIFI, though.

I get most of my information from a source in Gainesville. I know you would never sink to such depths as to communicate with folks from Gainesville, so you will need to do your best in the ColumbiaZone.

I considered listing Columbia, with TJ Jones, but folks on this board probably hear more about Columbia than any other team. It would be impossible for Columbia to fly under the radar with ColumbiaFan on here. Just teasin'.

Hey Zoe Boy, I just used one source for the data so there was some consistency in comparing 2003 vs 2018 data. I wasn't willing to spend any more time than I did on the exercise. The main purpose of the exercise was to look for any big changes/trends. My guess is that the trends would be true regardless of what raw data I used. Hope that makes sense.

By listing the teams below, am not implying they are necessarily a legitimate threat to win a state title. They are teams that seem to be trending in the right direction and have at least one big-time playmaker who could be the difference in a close game. Dunnellon(4A)-The Tigers are 29-7 over the past 3 seasons. Maurice Goolsby, a 4-star WR and FSU commit, is one of the top playmakers in the state. And Jaquvion "Baby J" Fraziars , one of the top juniors in the state, is a big 4-star Athlete with multiple Power 5 offers. University(4A)-The Sharks won the 3A title in 2012 and have a history of winning. Kenny McIntosh, a 4-star RB with multiple Power offers, is one of the top playmakers in the state. University is loaded with talent this year, including two of the top defensive backs in the state. Dunbar(5A)-The Tigers are 28-6 the past 3 seasons. Seneca Milledge, a 3-star RB and University of Virginia commit, is a playmaker on both sides of the ball with lots of speed. Jadarius McKnight is one of the top juniors in the state. The 4-star Athlete is committed to FSU. And Derick Hunter, a 4-star DE and FSU commit, is one of the top defensive linemen in the state. Jefferson(5A)-Is Jefferson back? After some marginal seasons, the Dragons have put together 2 good seasons and have Ahmarean Brown, a 3-star WR and Maryland commit...a definite playmaker. Menendez(5A)-The Falcons were 8-4 last year and played Baker County and Clay tough. Kenny Logan, a 3-star athlete who played RB and WR last year, is a big-time playmaker with multiple power 5 offers. Tye Edwards is one of the top linebackers in the state with numerous Power 5 offers. New coach Kyle Skipper has been the OC, so they should not lose continuity. Naples(6A)-The Golden Eagles have one of the most seasoned coaches in the state, Bill Kramer, and a long history of winning. Chez Mellusi, a 4-star RB and Clemson commit, is one of the top playmakers in the state. Dominic Mamarelli is one of the top juniors in the state. The 4-star TE is a UM commit. Fletcher(7A)-The Senators have been hanging around this decade, showing promise. No idea if they will break out anytime soon, but can say they have one of the top playmakers in the state. Jeremiah Payton is a 4-star WR and UM commit. And Devon Lingle, one of the top junior QB's in the state, is a 3-star recruit who already has multiple FBS offers. Miami Palmetto(8A)-The Panthers had fair-to-weak teams for years, but have 17 wins over the past 2 seasons. Cornelis Nunn, is a 3-star Athlete and Syracuse commit. South Dade(8A)-The Buccaneers were 8A state champs in 2013 and have a history of winning. Frank Ladson, a 5-star WR and Clemson commit, is arguably the top playmaker in the state. The Bucs have 2 of the top underclassman lineman in the state and are loaded at LB and DB. West Orange(8A)-The Warriors are on the rise and have been playing tough of late against the top teams in Orlando. Darrell Harding, a 3-star WR and Duke commit, is a big WR and major playmaker.

I feel badly for Jenkins. Last year was their first winning season in many years and maybe an opportunity for the program to gain some additional momentum this year and turn the corner. If he was their team leader, or one of them, it will no doubt hurt them to lose him. I spoke in another post about how talent seems to be consolidating into fewer teams. No doubt Lakeland has always been an attractive draw for kids in Polk County, but I wonder if there is even more pull in the past with today's college recruiting environment. Speaking in general terms, so many mediocre programs out there might have 1 outstanding player/leader in any one year, and if they are constantly losing them to the big name school(s) in the area, it will make it difficult for them to ever be competitive.

Please fill us in with names/progress reports on projected starters. Have listed players I can think of on the recruiting radar. Quite a few starters graduated. Am interested which teams could be helped/hurt at this position. American Heritage/Plantation ????? Apopka Jack Darlington/Jecoryan Davis Hamilton-see descriptions in post below Armwood ????? Atlantic ????? Braden River-Bryan Gagg 3-star/E Carolina Cardinal Gibbons-Nik Scalzo 3-star/Kentucky Carol City-Daniel Richardson 3-star Chaminade-Madonna-Daelen Menard started last year-talented qb Cocoa ????? Columbus ????? Deerfield Beach ????? Dr Phillips-Brenden Cyr transferred from West Orange; saw playing time last season Dwyer-Gio Richardson transferred from Oxbridge Academy; 3-star/FAU Hillsborough-Charlie Dean transferred from Plant; 3-star/UCF Lakeland-Dywonski McWilliams transferred from George Jenkins; seasoned starter-see description in post below Miami Central-Maurice Underwood 3-star/Marshall Northwestern-Isaiah Velez 3-star Osceola ????? Palm Beach Central ????? Plant ????? Raines ????? St Augustine ????? St Thomas Aquinas-Curt Casteel 3-star/Harvard; Mariano Valenti/3-star N Illinois Seminole-Timmy McClain started last year Southridge-Jaylin Willis ????? Venice-Hayden Wulff 3-star/Old Dominion Wekiva-Sean Robles transferred from Apopka-talented QB

Am working my way though about 75 teams that rarely get discussed on this board, but deserve some recognition. Hope you enjoy. Auburndale-In 1967, the Bloodhounds lost to Columbia 27-7 in the Class A final at Auburndale. Since then, they have won a number of playoff games, but have never made it past the second round. Booker-The Tornadoes of Sarasota have won a number of playoff games over the years, but only made the finals once. In 2005, Booker lost to St Augustine 31-15 in the 3A final. They beat Cocoa on the road in the playoffs and took out Glades Central at home in the state semis. Brandon-In 1969, the Eagles traveled to Tallahassee and played the legendary Gene Cox’s Leon squad in the 2A finals, losing 24-14. They have only won 3 playoff games since. Cardinal Mooney-The Cougars of Sarasota made their only trip to a state final in 1972. They traveled to Wewahitchka and won the Class A title 18-13. Chamberlain-In 2001, the Chiefs of Tampa made their only deep playoff run in school history, reaching the 5A final, where they lost to Naples 21-17. That playoff run including a road victory at Osceola. East Bay-In 2013, the Indians of Gibsonton won their only playoff game in school history, a 34-14 victory over 7A Gaither. Gulf-In 2008, the Buccaneers of New Port Richey won their only playoff game in school history, a 49-35 victory over 3A St Cloud. Hillsborough-In 1996, Earl Garcia’s Terriers made their only deep playoff run in school history, reaching the 6A final, where they lost to Walt Frazier’s Carol City Chiefs 21-7. They defeated Pensacola and Niceville at home in the playoffs. Hudson-In 2005, the Cobras won their only playoff games in school history, beating Bishop Moore 28-14 and Williston 28-20 in the 3A playoffs. Kathleen-In 1968, the Red Devils of Lakeland made their only deep playoff run in school history, reaching the Class A final at Tampa Stadium, where they lost 39-25 to “Wild Bill” Minihan’s Tampa Jesuit squad. They defeated Lyman and Chaminade to get there. Leto-The Falcons of Tampa won their only playoff game in school history in 1999, beating Lake Region at home 41-8 in a 4A playoff game. Pasco-The Pirates have won a number of playoff games, but only reached the finals in 1992, when they beat Tampa Jesuit 28-16 in the 3A final. Zephyrhills-This past season, the Bulldogs won their first playoff game in 15 years and only their third in school history. All 3 victories have been decided by 7 points or less.

You're right, Columbia might very well be able to beat South Dade. But what specific criteria makes you think they could? Stating that this is "possibly the most talented roster since 2015 and the region is basically as weak now as it was that year" does nothing to convince me they are better than South Dade, or any other team for that matter. "Most talented roster" is relative. As a reader, it is nice to be able to understand the rationale used by the author, ie why a certain team was ranked where they are, especially in an all-classification poll with 50 teams. That is a huge number of teams to rank. If it is a SWAG (scientific, wild-a_s guess), then just say so. I'm not trying pick on you or your work, buddy. I am simply trying to understand where you are coming from with your rankings, some of which make complete sense, but others not so much...at least not to me.

It is Bryan Stork! Holmes, Parris and Stork were the 3 Vero players to have their jerseys retired. Now you can go stump your friends. Bryan Stork (offensive line/tight end, 2009) Had 43 pancake blocks during his senior year where he primarily played tight end; signed with Florida State; started at both guard spots for the Seminoles before settling in as a center as a junior; won the Rimington Award as the nation’s top center as a senior; was a consensus All-American and first-team All-ACC pick as a senior when he helped lead Florida State to the BCS National Championship; drafted by the New England Patriots in the fourth round in 2014; started 11 regular season games as a rookie as well as Super Bowl XLIX; retired from NFL in 2017; currently a graduate assistant at Southern Miss

I'll be the first one to say that talent on paper is only one data point and of limited value. I don't understand the logic of ranking a team in front of another team because they are likely to have a better record at the end of the season. I also don't understand what place one finishes in their region has anything to do with where they should be ranked in an all-classification poll. IMO, a team ranked above another should be able to win at least 6 games out of 10 games played on the field against that lower-ranked team. If rankings cannot help us in some way to predict outcomes, I do not know what use they are other than an ego trip.

Kenny Holmes-yes! Gary Parris-yes! You are missing one. Hint...he played Tight End. Kenny Holmes (defensive end, 1992) Dominant edge rusher recorded 22 sacks during his senior year; two-time first-team All-Big East selection at the University of Miami; two-time captain for the Hurricanes; recorded 207 tackles and 29 sacks at Miami; drafted by the Tennessee Oilers in the first round in 1997; registered 38.5 sacks during his seven-year NFL career; current defensive line coach at Florida International Gary Parris (tight end, 1968) Two-time all-state second-team selection and a three-time All-Suncoast East first-team selection at Vero Beach; earned 15 letters in college (four in basketball, baseball and track and three in football); named the team’s top underclassman in 1966 and '67; played in Florida High School All-Star Game; signed with Florida State and finished career with 82 catches for 1,125 yards and five touchdowns; drafted by the San Diego Chargers in the 15th round in 1973; caught 45 passes and five touchdowns in 91 NFL games; named Indian River County’s Athlete of the Century in 2004

Just curious what justification you used to place Columbia #24 and a team like South Dade outside the ranking and no honorable mention. In terms of individual talent, on paper, they are far ahead of Columbia this year. They have 1000 more students. Since winning the 8A state title in 2013, they have had 3 good years out of 4 and some qualiity wins, ie multiple wins vs Southridge. They play a much tougher 8A Dade schedule every year and are 72-22 versus 71-25 for Columbia this decade . They have 16 playoff wins since 2005 vs 10 for Columbia. Don Drinkhahn was at South Dade for 20+ years and laid a foundation for future success. If South Dade is not even worthy of an honorable mention, I cannot see Columbia being amongst the top 25 in the state.

Not to put you on the spot young man, but......some extra credit for you Mr Trelle. Who is the only player(s) from Vero to ever have his jersey retired?

Did you play in that game against Wellington?

It is Billy Livings of Vero Beach. In October of 2003, he earned his 300th career coaching victory when Vero Beach beat Wellington 20-0 at the field named in his honor. Livings joins Carl Madison (315-140), Gene Cox (313-99-4) and Corky Rogers (304-63-1) as the only Florida coaches with at least 300 wins at that time. Too bad we don't have anyone on the forum from Vero who could have helped with this one. Good job Trelle! https://www.fhsaa.org/departments/special-programs/hall-of-fame/members/billy-livings

FYI-The 300 wins were not all within the state of Florida.

The data below applies to schools in Palm Beach, Broward and Miami-Dade counties. In 2018, 29 out of 95(30%) public schools have at least one 2-star or better recruit. 69 out of 148(47%) such recruits attend a private school. In 2003, 51 out of 85(60%) public schools had at least one 2-star or better recruit. 38 out of 164(23%) such recruits attended a private school. Approximately 2/3 (97/148) of current 2-star or better recruits attend one of 12 public or private south Florida schools. Over half of all 2-star or better recruits attend one of 8 public or private south Florida schools. It appears talent in south Florida is consolidating. What will happen if this trend continues? Is it possible that in 15 years the bulk of all south Florida D1 recruits will be found at only a handful of public and private schools? Can we legitimately say that the depth of powerful teams in south Florida is as good as in the past, recognizing the changes that have taken place? No doubt there are some incredible teams there, but are there as many good/very good teams as in the past? Teams such as Ely, Dillard, Edison and Killian have seen big dips in talent. By the way, my intent here is NOT to villify private schools. Private schools serve an important function and have produced thousands of great students and athletes. For whatever reason, more talented athletes are attending private schools than in the past. I simply wish to show the changes that taken place over the past 15 years and how they might be impacting public school football programs.