gatorman-uf

Lowndes County has 2 public schools (Lowndes and Valdosta), but the City of Valdosta has their own school board/school, so what Captain Morgan suggests still applies as City of Valdosta and Lowndes County have their own school board and would be single schools.

I try not to bash people that I don't know, but how the hell is Jon Santucci becoming the voice of HS Sports in Florida. I feel like every article he publishes is a hooray for this metro/suburban split with no thought process about who is hurt by it or if the system actually addresses any of the issues that coaches are talking about it. My favorite part of one of his articles "People who felt the previous classes made it easy to predict the state champion won't be able to make that argument anymore. " He then mentions Metro Class 2 and 11 state caliber team, of course, he doesn't do that for any other metro area, because we all kind of know the who the 3-4 teams actually capable of winning the state championship are. He tries to bolster how good Suburban Class 4 is by listing 17 teams, including: Creekside (8-3) this season, their first 8 win season since 2011!!!!! Lake Minneola (6-4) this season, and beyond a state runner-up in 2020, has been mediocre. Lehigh (7-3) lost in the second round of the playoffs to the state powerhouse known as Tampa Wharton and generally have been mediocre over the past 8 years. Nease (9-4) last season, got crushed by Gainesville Buchholz, but haven't had a winning season since 2015 (until this year)! Ponta Vedra (his spelling) (4-6) haven't been past the first round of the playoffs since their magical run in 2016. Their defeats in the recent playoffs have come at the hands of suburban teams. Viera (5-5) haven't made it to the playoffs the last 3 seasons. Why does he do this? He has to try and drum up support by giving hope, but we already know what teams are likely the final four or probably the final 2. Look, I accept this is the new reality. It is a shame that it is only football (as of right now) as the same logic applies to all sports.

Every couple of years, a newspaper writes a similar article. https://www.tampabay.com/news/education/2022/03/08/do-florida-high-school-football-coaches-deserve-better-pay/

Executive Director Tomyn did mention it during the meeting.

I guess I would rather make 250 happy than the 15 or so programs that this new program makes happy. I think sports should be enjoyed by all and how they enjoy it is going to be different for everyone. Some schools/communities want to compete on a very high level. They are year round programs, they started in 6th grade and continue through 12th. They view football as a way onto the next level (college). I think that is great. I also recognize there are lots of programs, who aren't that level of committed and even if you gave them the best coaches at these top level schools, they aren't becoming elite programs. They simply don't have the school/community support, the demographics, or the money, but they recognize that football can be more than championships. It is about learning to play the sport, being part of the team, pushing yourself. If a championship happens to be involved, great, but for many of these type of programs they are happy to play 10 games and maybe win some, let them compete for a championship, I promise you, we have given state championships to teams that would be worse than the winners of my lowest classification, and if we do so what? Does it really take away from your school's potential state championship? If so, how?

Ummm, the rural small school requirement wasn't to ensure that every school won a state championship that previously hadn't. The original requirements were that your county/city had to be recognized as rural by a specific state agency and had to less than 500 students (eventually increased to 600 to ensure enough schools in classification). Yes, Union County won state championships in 1996 at 3A (which was really 2A, since there was no 1A at the time). Yes, Madison County has most likely manipulated the system to become a 1A school. Yes, Pahokee won a 2B state championship (go look at the schools in 2B, it is almost every team in 1A now). Yes, Taylor County won a state championship back in 1997, at 3A (2nd smallest classification as there was no 1A at the time). Fort White was 3A, but their enrollment has dropped them below 600 (as did several teams that same year). Classifications have been based on size. Schools will sometimes move up and some will move down based on enrollment, so finding fault that a team now meets the classification standard and you don't like it because it will make it harder for your team, seems very cry baby-ish.

Pahokee has always been "rural" 1A school. The first few years of 1A though they did not want to make the trips for district games so they chose to be in a higher classification.

Saying Pahokee is part of Palm Beach County is technically true, but Pahokee and Belle Glade are completely different than the rest of Palm Beach. They might be in the same county, but it would be easier for any player to go play at any of the top tier schools in Palm Beach than go to Pahokee or Glades Central. As for Hamilton County, unless Alex Brown is walking onto the field, Hamilton County has little chance of competing until the community as a whole gets it together. Hamilton County one of the consistently worse schools in Florida.

Ray, We could still do a promotion/relegation system, just make the top classes smaller (32 teams) and the smallest class would be large 128+ teams. While the team that wins the lowest classification won't historically be good, they will have have had a good enough season to beat other similar teams. Just like when many of the smallest classifications have state champions that we know wouldn't make it a regional final in any other class, but they are still state champions.

I am not Josh, but maybe (non-Metro) people have noted the recent dominance of metro state championships (like 90%) in 2A-8A. They feel that even if you have a great (non-Metro) team, too many of the great teams in these metro can stockpile talent, because the density is too high and the players because of school choice can easily go to. They won't say it is because they don't want to play Miami Northwestern, Miami Central, STA, Bolles, Trinity Christian, but that is what it really boils down to. 2) Only football, and if you pay attention to some of the local journalists who cover high school sports, they were pushing for it for everything (they used this weekend's METRO girls basketball as proof). ___________________ I do find it interesting that the most Republican of areas of the state (North Florida/SW FL) are the ones pushing this more than any other area, when it was their legislators in the Florida House/Senate/Governor that pushed for Open Enrollment, which leads to the creation of these super teams. And now that these super teams are created, they are upset, but don't realize it was their own people that did this to them. (They prefer to blame the "Metro" areas and their recruiting).

Seriously, we are worried that Pahokee is going to start picking up transfers? Glades Central is the closest school to Pahokee, they are 13.3 miles, and no kid is turning on Belle Glade for Pahokee (or vice versa). And if we are concerned, why are we not concerned that Union County is only 15.9 miles from Bradford. (Yes, school choice allows you to attend another district's schools if there is room).

Somehow I doubt they will be calling me anytime soon, I offered critiques on a week to week basis on the RPI/Power Rankings (as I couldn't get my numbers to match with theirs due to out of state games), they basically told me to bugger off. I stopped doing the math after several weeks, but I know it had to do with how MaxPreps handled out of state games.

In one of my other posts about promotion/relegation, I have suggested that the top "rural school" switches places with the lowest ranked rural school not in 1A regardless of size. I mean I am surprised that more rural school people aren't upset at the Sneads Volleyball team and their 9 straight state championships.

You trust the schools to do it, if they fail to do it the FHSAA steps in. Most of these schools would rather play competitive schools. (If it became too cumbersome it could be dropped, but until we sort all the teams out (takes 5 years), we don't know). I would too, but I also recognize reality. Coaches/ADs are too scared of that kind of change. You spoon feed it to them, so that the changes aren't so sudden and they barely notice the whole system is changed after 5 years. If you try a blank slate (which is kinda what the FHSAA tried a couple of years ago, it shocks the system too much). As for dividing by Metro/Suburban, Let's use Baker, Columbia, Alachua, and Marion. Baker County K-12 hovers around 5.4K Columbia County K-12 hovers around 10K Alachua County K-12 hovers around 30K Marion County K-12 hovers around 43K The solution we are told is that Baker County should be able to compete against Marion County, despite the fact that Marion is nearly 8 times the size. If county size is the problem, that we need Metro/Suburban/Rural classifications to truly differentiate.

Does Trinity or Bolles take pride in the fact that they win a state championship in a clearly weakened classification and before the season starts 90% of the teams have no chance of beating them? I think we take pride in the idea of an accomplishment, a team wins a state championship against other similar type teams (teams with a history of losing, maybe this is the catalyst to become a mediocre team).

I would reduce to 6 classes as well, but it would be over a period of 5 years (and I am keeping the current 1A). If the FHSAA's calls me up to do this, then I will sit and do the math, but until then this is what the finals look like. 6A - 32 teams (All make playoffs, 70% of schedule against other 6A schools) 5A - 64 teams (50% make playoffs, 60% of schedule against other 5A schools) 4A - 96 teams (33% make playoffs, 60% of schedule against other 4A schools) 3A - 120 teams (27% make playoffs, 50% of schedule against other 3A schools) 2A - 140 teams (23% make playoffs or 46% make playoffs and compete to a regional championship)

I don't know if you are talking to me or Nulli, but it happens in both our systems. And yes, 8A (or 6A in Nulli's) would have all the teams that would normally be competing for a state championship in one classification, the teams that right now you would pencil into Regional Finals and would think it weird if they lost in round 1 or 2. Why? Because Super Teams are killing sports in general. Everyone knows that a team like Trinity Christian will be in the finals in 2A or 3A without batting an eye, so why compete? The FHSAA needs create a system that strives to create competitive balance. Competitive Balance encourages teams to try and do better because they are facing similar type teams. Some schools have tradition, some have great feeder programs, some have money and a name, some have great coaches. And the good teams want to compete with teams that are similar. Teams that lack some of the above want to compete with other schools like themselves. Size doesn't matter anymore. 1A Rural has been a success overall if you ask the schools, because they feel that they have a chance and are playing schools like themselves (Madison County not withstanding). I think all the schools want that same level of feeling. Promotion/Relegation system accomplishes this and the best part is that you can do this in every sport.

First, your idea of splitting them into different quadrants is exactly what my idea does, you just add that it should also be based on metro/suburban. My problem is that Metro/Suburban is completely arbitrary. Look at Duval, Raines and Mandarin have recently won state championships, but it had been 2 decades since a public school team had won from that County. Is that really a dominant county? Is Columbia really pulling from the same area as Vanguard or St. Augustine, despite school size similarities? My problem with the Metro/Suburban is that doesn't solve the competitive imbalance issues, they still exist. Looking https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2022/01/20/high-school-football-possible-2022-fhsaa-metro-suburban-classifications/6590427001/ It is suggested that Stanton/Paxon and Raines should be in the same district!!! It is suggested that Bolles and Wolfson should be in the same district!!! It is suggested that Westland Hialeah (.198 winning % over last 10 years) and Miami Carol City in the same district!!! My idea doesn't shock the system, the way the FHSAA tried to do it. The FHSAA tried to say, if you have a good year, we are going to move you into an elite/premiere playoff. No coach wanted that because, maybe they hit lightning in the bottle that year and this is their one chance to go the state championship. My proposed system does it gradually, sure TCA probably represents 3A in the state championship again and again in 4A, but 5A, maybe not. Does an above average Columbia/Buchholz/Vanguard/Bartram Trail win a state championship when they have to face STA, probably not.

I think this solves so many of the issues that we know exist within the current system, but do little to stop. Would recruiting/transfers be a problem still, sure, I am throwing in the towel on that until the state legislature changes (hint: they won't), but in the long term it creates balance. Would a school like Trinity Christian still wipe the floor with most of the 3A schools that they would be facing? Sure, it is going to take time to solve this. But every remaining 2A school would probably be happy, they would feel like they have a chance to win. Another year and probably every 3A is school is happy and so forth. Meanwhile, your worst schools in a classification are feeling better if only because they are moving closer to schools that are on their level. Long term, we probably remove district games as well and simply require a certain % of games to be played against teams in your classification (FHSAA $$$ steps in when distance will be a problem).

The following teams would drop out 3A into 2A (6 teams) Somerset Academy South Homestead (Homestead) Inlet Grove (Riviera Beach) Interlachen Trinity Prep (Winter Park) Gateway (Fort Myers) Cornerstone Charter Academy (Belle Isle) The following teams would rise out of 2A into 3A Trinity Christian Academy (Jacksonville) Champagnat Catholic (Hialeah) Orlando Christian Prep (Orlando) University Christian (Jacksonville) Victory Christian Academy (Lakeland) John Carroll Catholic (Fort Pierce)

The following teams would drop out of 4A into 3A (6 teams) North Bay Haven Academy (Panama City) Tenoroc (Lakeland) Davenport Umatilla Central (Brooksville) Parrish Community (Parrish) The following teams would rise out of 3A into 4A (6 teams) Chaminade-Madonna (Hollywood) Berkeley Prep (Tampa) Florida State University High School (Tallahassee) Clearwater Central Catholic (Clearwater) Edison (Miami) Tampa Catholic (Tampa)

The following teams would drop out of 5A into 4A (only 6 teams). Pine Ridge (Deltona) Titusville Anclote (Holiday) Horizon (Winter Garden) Gulf (New Port Richey) Lake Buena Vista (Orlando) The following teams would rise of out 4A into 5A (7 teams, due to University's ambiguous status) Cardinal Gibbons (Fort Lauderdale) Cocoa University (Fort Lauderdale) Bolles (Jacksonville) Gulliver Prep (Miami) Booker T. Washington (Miami) Carol City (Miami)

The following teams would drop out of 6A into 5A: Blake (Tampa) Englewood (Jacksonville) Spoto (Riverview) Cape Coral Okeechobee Suncoast (Riviera Beach) Hollywood Hills (Hollywood) East Lee County (Lehigh Acres) Freedom (Tampa) Belleview Brandon Northeast (Oakland Park) The following teams would rise out of 5A into 6A Central (Miami) American Heritage (Plantation) Rockledge Raines (Jacksonville) Wakulla (Crawfordville) Killian (Miami) Bishop Moore (Orlando) Dunnellon Baker County (Glen St. Mary) Godby (Tallahassee) North Marion (Citra) Sebring

The following teams would be moving out of 7A and into 6A: East Ridge (Clermont) Cooper City Everglades (Miramar) Lake Howell (Winter Park) South Plantation (Plantation) Winter Springs North Port Strawberry Crest (Dover) Olympic Heights (Boca Raton) Mater Academy Charter (Hialeah Gardens) Nova (Davie) Leto (Tampa) The following teams would be moving up to 7A from 6A Northwestern (Miami) Jesuit (Tampa) Jones (Orlando) Naples Vanguard (Ocala) Riverside (Jacksonville) Lincoln (Tallahassee) Columbia (Lake City) Escambia (Pensacola) Pine Forest (Pensacola) Plantation Mainland (Daytona Beach)

In 8A, the following teams would move down: Tohopekaliga (Kissimmee) Freedom (Orlando) Coral Reef (Miami) Royal Palm Beach University (Orlando) Celebration Lake Worth Windermere Leonard (Greenacres) West Boca Raton (Boca Raton) Miami Beach Cypress Creek (Orlando) The following teams from 7A would replace them: St. Thomas Aquinas (Fort Lauderdale) Edgewater (Orlando) Lakeland Armwood (Seffner) Dillard (Fort Lauderdale) Tampa Bay Tech (Tampa) Niceville Palmetto Bloomingdale (Valrico) Buchholz (Gainesville) Atlantic (Delray Beach) Wekiva (Apopka)