OldSchoolLion

I've done two stints in Polk County and was there in 2004-2006, so saw plenty of those Lakeland teams. Back in the day, local rivalries in those parts were important community events and took precedence in scheduling, regardless of team records. Lakeland vs Kathleen or Winter Haven were big games. Turns out both of those teams were pretty good back then. Below are Lakeland's non-district games during that time frame(2004-2006). I think it was a creative schedule...much more creative than many teams at the time. Not saying it's a "9" or "10" in terms of difficulty...far from it. But they clearly reached out beyond Polk County. Those Lakeland teams beat a number of outstanding teams in the playoffs 2004-2006. If one wants to debate that they played weak regular season schedules then...well, it sure didn't hurt them come playoff time. Believe it or not, there was a time when one played the local teams regardless of their records and that was it for the regular season. 2004 Winter Haven, George Jenkins, Kathleen, at Miami High 2005 Winter Haven, Venice, Miami Norland, Dr Krop, at Cape Coral, Centennial 2006 Winter, Kathleen, at Venice, Norland, Dr Krop, Centennial, at St Xavier(OH)

2. Over the past 10 years, the following states have produced NCAA consensus all-americans. Amongst these states, name the top 3 states in order of ranking (#1, #2, #3) which have produced the most consensus all-americans per capita over the past 10 years? #1 Hawaii #2 Alabama #3 Louisiana Hawaii is a tiny state, yet has produced 5 consensus all-americans of late. The entire state has a population the size of Hillsborough County. So, for this many consensus all-americans to be produced in 5 years from such a small population is pretty amazing. 2017 DE Hercules Mata'afa/Washington St 2015 K Ka'imi Fairbairn/UCLA/Houston Texans 2014 LB Hau'oli Kikaha/Washington/NO Saints 2014 QB Marcus Mariota/Oregon/TN Titans 2013 LB Manti Teo/Notre Dame/NO Saints Tua Tagovailoa, qb for University of Alabama and offensive MVP of this past season's national championship game, went to the same high school in Hawaii as Marcus Mariota. And his little brother, Taulia, is considered one the top qb recruits in the country this year. Sol-Jay Maiava, a high-profile sophomore quarterback at Kahuku High School in Hawaii, transferred to St John's in Washington, D.C., for his junior year. Kahuku High has produced 17 NFL players since 1970.

...sure, one could say they expected Flanagan to be better, so maybe not a good example ...maybe a better example. 2014 Northeast 63-0 2013 Northeast 60-6 By the way, STA often plays Miramar and Deerfield Beach...two of Broward's best. Between those games and their OOS games, I think they typically play a tough overall schedule. It's not their fault they are in a district of teams they far surpass. I simply would like to see them play good in-state teams in lieu of the OOS teams.

...for informational purposes. St Thomas Aquinas has played some brutal OOS competition over the years. Over the past 14 seasons, they have played Miami-Dade schools 4 times during the regular season. The Dade school's record that season is in parentheses. Arguably, STA has not played one of the Miami-Dade powers when they were in their prime. 2016 Booker T Washington(9-4) lost 27-23 2015 Booker T Washington(9-5) won 35-3 2013 Northwestern(4-5) won 38-3 2012 Columbus(9-5) won 38-28 Should STA be "forgiven" for scheduling non-district games against 1-9 Piper and 1-10 Flanagan(who they played in 2017) because they schedule tough OOS games? If we are going to second-guess a team like Dwyer, I think it only fair to ask the question.

..we have hs educators being laid off all over the country ...and taxpayers supporting hs athletics struggling to make ends meet. In the meantime, "outsiders" see us as selfish fools trying to figure out how to burn more gas money to satisfy our curiosity with playing teams from outside the area. In the stone ages, you might play one such game as a treat each year, that's it. We are losing perspective. ...sermon over.

Atlantic, AH Delray, Oxbridge, Pahokee, Glades Central, Pahokee, and Park Vista have produced some very good teams this past decade. Have some of those teams had some up-and-down seasons? Absolutely. But the same can be said for many Broward and Miami-Dade public schools. Only 7 out 65 public schools in Broward and Miami-Dade have had winning seasons each of the past 3 seasons. 4 in Palm Beach have. Here are some teams Dwyer has played the past 5 seasons: 2017 Miami Central (10-3), Park Vista (10-3), Atlantic (8A state finalist); Playoffs-Mater Academy, Doral Academy 2016 Northwestern (11-2), Atlantic(9-4); Playoffs-Fort Lauderdale and STA 2015 Northwestern(5-5), Atlantic (12-1); Playoffs-Ely and STA 2014 American Heritage Plantation(12-3), Glades Central (10-3), Royal Palm Beach (12-2), Atlantic (9-3), W Boca Raton (7-3) 2013 Glades Central, Palm Beach Gardens(8A state semifinalist), Royal Palm Beach (8-3), W Boca Raton (7-4) ; Playoffs-Boyd Anderson, Ely, STA Dwyer's playoff schedule can involve a gauntlet of Dade/Broward County teams. For that reason, it makes total sense they would not go out of their their way to schedule an excessive(more than 1 IMO) number of games versus them, knowing they will likely meet up with some in the playoffs, ie STA. In 2015, Dwyer scheduled Miami Northwestern, who ended up having a 5-5 year. They probably could have gotten a comparable game playing an in-county team like Glades Central that year. Dwyer is in a district with 6 teams, compared to Vero being in a district with 4. So, Dwyer has less non-district opportunities as some teams. Does Dwyer play the toughest non-district schedule around? No. But Dwyer is probably realistic in their scheduling. They have a great program, but they are not consistently in the class of teams like STA or Miami Central. Biting off more they can chew to satisfy the armchair critics is probably not prudent. If one wants to question why Dwyer does not play more regular season games versus teams to the south, it begs the same question for teams like STA and Cardinal Gibbons. How many powerhouse teams from Miami-Dade and Broward have they played of late? Last season, Gibbons played non-district games against Southridge(6-4) Douglas(6-4), Hollywood Hills(2-7), Dillard(6-5), AH Delray (5-5). In 2016, they played non-district games against Plantation(2-8), Everglades (2-8), Chaminade-Madonna (10-5), Deerfield Beach (10-3) Those teams had a combined record of 49-49. Could a nationally-recognized power have created a more formidable schedule? If we are going to pick on Dwyer, we could probably find a number of other schools that deserve equal amounts of scrutiny.

I am not a Lakeland homer, but have tremendous respect for the program. Who from the Lakeland coaching staff and/or athletic department have you spoken to about their scheduling? Just curious what FACTS you are using to judge them. If you do not know the FACTS behind why they play who they, Flo, you are simply being an armchair qb. Am glad to hear you are so confident in your opinions. I am very anxious to hear how your discussion with Bill Castle goes and how he receives your feedback. When can we expect a report on your call with him?

3. This past season, 3 states tied for producing the most NFL All-Pro players (first and second team combined). Which 3 states? California, Georgia, and Ohio each produced 7 NFL All-Pro players. Texas had 6. Arizona, Washington, and North Carolina each had 3. Florida, South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee, Pennsylvania and New York each had 2. The two FL reps were Xavier Rhodes and Antonio Brown. Both played at Miami Norland.

I do not like second guessing coaches about their scheduling. Coaches are competitive types by nature who don't dodge a good fight. I believe there are reasons they do what they do concerning scheduling. Concerning Dwyer, they have plenty of reasonably good public school competition in Palm Beach County. And, in recent years, they have kicked off their season playing a Miami-Dade power. Like I said about Bill Castle, does anyone really think that Jack Daniels, one of the most successful coaches in the state, is going to dodge competition? I will challenge anyone who wants to say that to call Bill or Jack and tell them that in person, and then report back to us about how that discussion went. I will say, I have often wondered why St Thomas Aquinas has not played certain Miami-Dade powers over the years. Am sure they have their reasons, and am not second-guessing them because I don't have the facts. Here's a more positive spin on the topic....how about calling out teams who have done great job of setting challenging schedules over the years. Some that come to mind...Madison County, Mainland, Bolles, Booker T, Miami Central, to name a few.

Read about them below. 10 of the top 63 NFL draft picks this past year had 2 stars or less in high school. 5 of them had "no stars." Also, 6 of 27 NCAA consensus All-Americans this year had 2 stars or less in high school. There's an old saying. The cream always rises to the top. It raises the question of how necessary it is to jump from high school to high school in search of additional exposure..or how critical it is to go to a Power 5 university to be "found" by NFL scouts. #5 overall pick to the Titans WR Corey Davis/Western Michigan - 2-star recruit - Only had offers Western Michigan and Illinois State. Was a consensus All-American at W Michigan in 2016. #13 overall pick to the Cardinals LB Haason Reddick/Temple - 0 stars - Reddick did not have any offers after finishing high school, so he walked on at Temple. He did not even have a Rivals.com profile. #22 overall pick to the Dolphins DE Charles Harris/Missouri - 2-star recruit - Harris was a virtual unknown when he committed to Missouri. #32 overall pick to the Saints OT Ryan Ramczyk/Wisconsin - 0 stars - Ramczyk was offered a scholarship by Pittsburgh, but he chose not to take it. He signed at Winona State, but did not enroll and instead attended Mid-State Technical College. Ramczyk then went to Wisconsin-Stevens Point, where he played for two seasons before transferring to Wisconsin. Was a consensus All-American at Wisconsin in 2016. #37 overall pick to the Bills WR Zay Jones/East Carolina - 2-star recruit - Jones only had offers from East Carolina and Arkansas State. He was considered too slow for a higher ranking. His brother is Cayleb Jones. #38 overall pick to the Chargers OG Forest Lamp(of Venice High in FL)/Western Kentucky - 2-star recruit - Lamp took official visits to Western Kentucky, FIU, FAU and Ohio. Lamp was a lightly recruited, “skinny” tackle out of high school who “looked more like a tight end.” Despite excellent footwork, there were questions about how he would fill out and handle the strength and power of college players. #44 overall pick to the Rams TE Gerald Everett/South Alabama - 0 stars - Everett did not have a profile coming out of high school, but played at UAB until the program suddenly folded. He then made his way to Hutchinson C.C. in Kansas, before eventually making his way to South Alabama. #45 overall pick to the Bears TE Adam Shaheen/Ashland - 0 stars - Shaheen was only 6’4”, 195-pounds when he graduated high school and decided to play basketball at Pittsburgh-Johnstown. He eventually made his way to Division 2 Ashland in Ohio to play football, where he transformed his body to its current 6-foot-6, 278-pound frame. #59 overall pick to the Chiefs DE Tanoh Kpassagnon/Villanova - 0 stars - Kpassagnon did not have a Rivals profile. Villanova was his only offer. His focus was more on academics during high school and he never attended any college or all-star camps, aside from Villanova’s. #63 overall pick to the Bills OG Dion Dawkins/Temple - 2-star recruit - Dawkins spent the 2012 season at Hargrave Military Academy. Had offers from Temple, Cincinnati and Liberty.

Below are 27 NCAA consensus All-Americans from 2017. State where they played high school football is in parentheses. Surprising there are no Florida kids. 17/27 had less than 4 stars as hs recruits. 6/27 had less than 3 stars as hs recruits. In 2016, 9/27 NCAA consensus All-Americans had less than 4 stars. So, number of stars is not necessarily a great predictor of success in the NCAA and beyond. QB Baker Mayfield/Oklahoma (TX) 3-star RB Bryce Love/Stanford (NC) 4-star RB Rashaad Penny/San Diego St (CA) 3-star WR Michael Gallup/Colorado St (KS) 3-star WR Anthony Miller/Memphis (TN) 0-star WR James Washington/Oklahoma St (TX) 3-star TE Mark Andrews/Oklahoma (AZ) 4-star OT Orlando Brown/Oklahoma (GA) 3-star OT Mike McGlinchey/Notre Dame (PA) 4-star OG Quenton Nelson/Notre Dame (NJ) 5-star OG Cody O’Connell/Washington St (WA) 3-star C Billy Price/Ohio St (OH) 4-star DE Billy Chubb/NC St (GA) 3-star DE Sutton Smith/N Illinois (MO) 2-star DT Maurice Hurst/Michigan (MA) 3-star DT Hercules Mata’afa/Washington St (HI) 3-star DT Ed Oliver/Houston (TX) 5-star LB Josey Jewell/Iowa (IA) 2-star LB Roquan Smith/Georgia (GA) 4-star CB Denzel Ward/Ohio St (OH) 3-star CB Josh Jackson/Iowa (TX) 2-star S Minkah Fitzpatrick/Alabama (NJ) 5-star S Deshon Elliott/Texas (TX) 4-star P Michael Dickson/Texas (Australia) 0-star K Matt Gay/Utah (UT) 0-star AP Saquon Barkly/Penn St (PA) 4-star AP Dante Pettis/Washington (CA) 3-star

...some additional information. The shooting was reported at 2:21 a.m. Friday in the parking lot of the Sunoco gas station at 4000 S. Babcock Street. Ibrahim Dural was working the register at the 24-hour station, located across from Palm Bay Magnet High School, when 15-20 shots rang out. He said there were three or four customers inside at the time of the shooting. The gunfire erupted minutes after the customers walked outside, Dural said. The station also was the scene of two 2017 shootings — in February and March. Police said Pollard and the suspect likely knew each other. They are investigating a series of altercations that took place before Friday's shooting.

The former Palm Bay High student killed in a shooting at the Sunoco gas station across the street from the school today was a promising football player that had attracted interest from several major schools before he graduated. Twonnie Pollard, 21, played linebacker and running back for the Pirates from 2013 to his graduation in 2016. A standout player, he was scouted his senior year by several Division I schools and entertained offers from at least seven programs. He signed with the Iowa Western Community College Reivers in Feburary 2016. Pollard was known as a explosive ball-carrier, but gained the most attention on defense for his speed and ferocious hits. He was named All-Space Coast Defense and All-District Defense for the 2014-15 season.

According to records, Cocoa did not win a playoff game in 2006. Is that incorrect?

Recognizing ratings of high school players today are sometimes inflated, a better measure of which states produce the best top-flight talent might be to look at performance of these athletes in college. 1. Over the past 10 years, the following 6 states have produced numerous NCAA consensus all-americans. By "produced," I mean they played their hs ball in that state. Which state has produced the most consensus all-americans in total over the past 10 years? #1 Texas - 25 players #2 Florida - 17 players #3 Georgia - 13 players #4 Ohio - 11 players #5 California - 9 players #6 New Jersey - 6 players Try questions #2 and #3 in the original post above if you would like.

My understanding is that Lakeland, being in Polk County, has certain constraints concerning who they schedule, similar to Hillsborough County. It is hard for me to believe that the most winning active coach in the state and one of the top 10 most winning active coaches in the country today, would shy away from anyone unless there were certain variables affecting scheduling decisions. Lakeland went on the road and played 3 nationally ranked opponents last decade. 2009 De La Salle 31-30 OT 2008 Pittsburgh Central Catholic 35-0 2006 St Xavier (OH) 25-22 OT

Columbia could have beaten BT by 40+ points those years and it would not change the "bigger picture." Concerning my evaluation above, the purpose was to evaluate consistency and determine which teams are "safe bets" to be in the playoff hunt in future years based on multiple years of experience/data. Because a team is on the list, it does not mean that they could have beaten/would beat a certain other team in any particular year this decade. Columbia has had a couple of great years this decade, but their playoff performance has been inconsistent. That does not mean they won't win the state title this year. But I am not going to put money on them since I like safer bets. Since you mention road playoff wins, BT is 10-9 during the same time frame that Columbia was 5-8. That does not mean BT would have won a road playoff game last year, nor does it mean they could have beaten Columbia on the road any year this decade. It does point to them being a more consistent team on the road in the playoffs. I am sure you can pick that apart if you want, ie show how BT played easier road games than Col over the past 15 years.

Above I made the statement, "Blowouts were very rare, and then it was against teams that were at the top of their game and one of the top-ranked teams in the state at the time." In 2015, Columbia had a very strong team that made the state semis and were ranked #16 overall in FL. Likewise, in 2012, Columbia had a strong team that finished 11-2 with those 2 losses by a combined total of 10 points...and they were ranked #15 overall in the state. To Columbia's credit, not many teams have beaten Bartram Trail that badly, and it speaks to the quality of their teams those years. That aligns with my statement. IMO Columbia was on top of their game those years and was one of the top-ranked teams.

Mr ColumbiaFan...I know how much you love Bartram Trail. If you are implying that Columbia is the best 7A team in those parts....well, Columbia needs to show me they can win on the road in the playoffs. Over the past 15 seasons in "away" playoff games your team is 5-8 and allowed 24 or more points in 7 of those games. Playoff games vs teams to the east(Jacksonville) 0-1 Playoff games vs teams to the west(Tallahassee/Panhandle) 2-3 Playoff games vs teams to the south 3-4 I guess if they play an away playoff game with a team from north of you the odds might be in your favor.

I think you are right. Heard they have lots of Kows in that neck of the woods.

Tyrone Moss set numerous all-time marks in Broward County history at Blanche Ely High in Pompano Beach. 7105 career yards - became the sixth rb in FL to reach 7000 career yards As a senior in 2002, rushed for 2,313 yards and 35 touchdowns while leading his school to the Florida Class 5A state championship...Also caught 10 passes for 164 yards...Rushed for 2,100 yards on 201 carries and scored 35 touchdowns as a junior in 2001, averaging 9.4 yards per attempt...Rushed for more than 2,500 yards as a sophomore in 2000. 107 career TDs - tied state record at the time Third rb in FL history to rush for 7000 yards and 100 TD's in a career Parade All American and second Team USA Today All-American

Does anyone know exactly what happened to him after the pro career did not pan out?

You are just mad because they got the gator chomp.

...some fascinating history. Lake City was originally known as the town of "Alligator." One of the four schools that formed the University of Florida was originally located in Lake City before consolidation to Gainesville in 1905. Shortly afterward, the University of Florida adopted the nickname "Alligators." So, there is clearly a strong tie between the two locales. I heard a rumor that there were some folks who wanted to move to Gainesville back then, but got left behind in Lake City and were terribly bitter about it. Possibly some of their descendants are still around today.

...another data point concerning possible decline of Lakeland. Between 1992-2012, Kathleen never beat Lakeland. Kathleen has won 2 of the past 5 years, including a win in 2016 when Kathleen finished a mediocre 5-5.