OldSchoolLion

A superstar athlete can alter a landscape. The question is how often it actually does. For every example we find, we can find an example where it does not. Oftentimes today the superstar athletes are playing on teams that already have a lot going for them, so it is difficult to discern how an individual's performance is contributing to the team's overall success. Derrick Henry of Yulee is one of the best examples of an athlete who could have changed a landscape. His team struggled to win in a in relatively weak classes. I believe Trinity Catholic destroyed Yulee while he was playing for them. Don't necessarily agree with the statement above in bold. I think we put too much emphasis on individual talent. A 4-star WR on a team that runs and/or with a marginal qb is only going to be so effective. Chaminade possibly had the best receiving corps in the state this year, but if you look at the numbers, their performance was not that extraordinary from a passing perspective.

As I said earlier, I would like to see some hard data to see how many teams are getting large numbers of 2-5 star player transfers each year. It might be a surprisingly small number. As far as teams who are so deep they have multi-star players in back-up roles...I can only think of a few who might fall into that category. I don't doubt there is a lot of transferring taking place. What I am questioning is how much it is truly impacting who wins/doesn't win championships.

Chaminade-Madonna is the only team to have beaten Clewiston, Pahokee and Glades Central in the playoffs. None of those victories took place in the Muck, though. In 2005, CM beat Clewiston in the state semis and eventually won the 2A state title. In 2002, CM beat Pahokee in the state semis. CM also knocked Pahokee out of the playoffs in 2009 Back in the late 1960's and early 1970's, Glades Central and Chaminade faced off a number of times in the playoffs. At the time, Chaminade was a small, all-boys school with a strong program and “played up” in class. Here’s a description of those games. Glades won the regional title 18-16 at home in 1969 before 4000 fans. Chaminade won the regional title 26-13 in 1970 at Hollywood McArthur stadium. Glades won the regional title at home in 1971 with a 31-0 victory and went on to win the state title. Glades won the regional title 20-6 in 1972 at South Broward Stadium before 2500 fans and then went on to win the state title. Chaminade won the regional title 15-13 in 1974 at South Broward Stadium and eventually advanced to the state title game. David Shula played on that team. Yep, that Shula. This was an infamous game, as there was a riot on the field after the game ended. There was a police helicopter with searchlight flying overhead and police dogs on the field. Multiple police officers and fans were injured in the melee. There was such bedlam that police officers had difficulty figuring out who was fighting and who was trying to quell things.

not necessarily

Cocoa won at Clewiston 26-21 in 2014

That is correct. Cocoa has beaten both Clewiston and Glades Central in the playoffs, but has not met Pahokee.

If there were potential negative consequences, ie I get stuck on the bench the whole season, maybe not. But I think that's the problem with the system. There are no negative consequences for my decision because the athlete is always left with a way out. I can just keep moving around if things don't work out. It happens today when a players goes to one of the elite schools. They are taking a chance someone better than them who plays the same position doesn't transfer in. But if it does happen...oh well, I'll just leave and go somewhere else.

Here's a scenario. Let's assume the max # of transfer is 3 and they only "count" as transfers if they see playing time. Transfer #1 is a 2-star athlete and #'s 2 and 3 are both 3-star athletes. At the last hour before the deadline, a 4-star athlete transfers in and now transfer #1 knows he likely won't get to play unless he transfers yet again. It's a bit like a fishing tournament in which you can only enter your 3 biggest fish....some fish will end up getting culled. It could become a big game to end up getting the 3 biggest "catches" before the deadline, with others getting screwed.

Only 1 team has ever won 3 FHSAA playoff games at the Muck...meaning they won at Pahokee or Clewiston or Glades Central or a combination of wins against those teams at their respective home fields. Which team is it? Take a guess! Bartow Chaminade-Madonna Cocoa Fort Meade Frostproof Haines City Immokalee Monsignor Pace Rockledge Tampa Catholic

Managing that would be difficult with current resources, I'm sure. I know it sounds like a cop-out to say "don't try," but I am not sure it is feasible and/or worth the time/energy/expense to do so, especially if it is to be managed in a truly just, consistent and effective manner. One state's answer was to form an investigative team of former law enforcement folks to investigate the transfers...questionable considering we are having hundreds of teacher layoffs across the country. The root issue is that certain administrations and fans tolerate or even desire "all-star teams." It is an issue of values...just like some people see nothing wrong with using performance-enhancing drugs, while others do. Some folks are so driven to win, they will do it with a team full of transfers, and still sleep at night. Preaching to them or trying to make rules to reign them in is likely going to be of limited effectiveness if they see nothing ethically wrong with what they are doing. Values have obviously changed over time and I think we simply need to accept that.

Avon Park has won against Pahokee on a few occasions, but lost to Clewiston when they met in the playoffs. They have never played Glades Central in the playoffs. Thanks for trying.

Three teams from the Muck...Glades Central, Pahokee, and Clewiston....together have played in a combined 26 state title games and well over 150 playoff games. There is only one team that has ever beaten all of them at least once in a playoff game. Who is it? Avon Park Bartow Bolles Chaminade-Madonna Clearwater Central Catholic Cocoa Frostproof Hardee Immokalee Tampa Catholic

No doubt certain transfers can have a big impact at a school. How many schools out there could we say definitively would not have won state titles over the past 10 years had they not gotten large numbers of transfers in a certain year (vs home-grown talent)? Sure, schools like Armwood, Northwestern and St Thomas get transfers, but they have so much tradition, I don't think they rely upon transfers to compete for titles. I am thinking of a handful of schools who made fairly astronomical gains over a short period of time. It is such a small number, there may be other ways to deal with those teams rather than implement across the board restrictions, ie 1-year sit-out.

That's great! There are several teams in the Houston area you could check out, all of whom are probably amongst the top 100-200 in the country. Katy(6A D1), North Shore(6A D1), Klein Collins(6A D2) and Cy-Fair(6A D2 champ)

It is Seminole. Orange and Pinellas. It might surprise some folks to learn that no team from the Orlando metro area has ever won back-to-back state titles. Apopka came close. Maybe Dr Phillips will change things next year. Good job, Darter!

Trinity Catholic never won back-to-back titles. Good guess, though.

Yep, Marion County was a power back in the 1970's. Ocala Forest won back-to-back 3A titles in 1974 and 1975 and Dunnellon won back-to-back 2A titles in 1978 and 1979.

Bocefous, you are dissin' Marion County. 2 schools from Marion County won back-to-back state titles. Anyone know who????

I would really like to see some hard data to see how much of a problem athletic transferring is. Specifically, how many juniors are transferring and becoming instant starters on the team where they transfer? Relative to the total population of kids playing hs football, it may be a very small number(or maybe not..don't know). If it is a small number, trying to put in place administrative processes to manage it may not be the best strategy and/or worth the bother. One interesting angle to getting rid of districts is that it gives AD's additional leverage to say who they play. If there is a team that is putting 10 transfers on the field every year, refuse to play them. I think they would get the message if coaches banded together and did the same. And it would put pressure on them to think twice about how they are managing their program.

These are amongst the largest counties (by population) in the state. Which county(s) on the list below has never had a high school win back-to-back FHSAA state football titles? Brevard Broward Duval Escambia Hillsborough Manatee Marion Miami-Dade Orange Palm Beach Pinellas Polk Seminole

It is Chuck Wood, who was head coach at Rockledge from 1986 to 2004. During his tenure, his teams went 155-51, and won 25 playoff games. In 2001, his team won the 3A title in Tallahassee, beating St Augustine 38-6. Rockledge held them to only 115 yards of total offense. That year, Rockledge beat 3-time defending state champion Glades Central in the regional finals in the Muck and then traveled to beat a very tough Lake Wales team in the state semis. The following year in Tallahassee, Rockledge repeated as 3A state champions, beating Crestview 22-0. They held them to only 85 yards of total offense. Ironically, Glades Central beat Rockledge in the 1997 state semis and Lake Wales beat Rockledge in the 1994 state semis. Both Glades Central and Lake Wales were regular foes of Rockledge in the playoffs during Wood's tenure. Rockledge seemed to lose its mojo after Wood stepped down, and just won their first playoff game in 10 years this past season. Hopefully Rockledge is on its way back to greatness. http://spacecoastdaily.com/2017/02/coach-chuck-wood-transforming-boys-into-young-men/

Cocoa gave up 59 points in its last 5 title games. Below are the offensive yards given up in those contests. 2008 152 yards vs Godby 2009 331 yards vs Glades Central 2010 270 yards vs Glades Central 2016 234 yards vs Bolles 2017 153 yards vs Raines In the 25 playoff games they played during those years, they held opponents to one TD or less 9 times.

Only about 35 coaches in the history of the FHSAA have won back-to-back state titles, and this fellow is one of them. He became head coach at this school in the 1980's and he was head coach there for about 20 years. During that time he led his teams to over 150 wins, including over 20 wins in the playoffs. His state title teams won with dominant defenses. In their title game victories, they completely shut down the opponent's rushing attack. In winning his first state title, his team had to win a playoff game against a defending state champion who came into the game with a 48-game win streak, which was a shocking upset at the time. Known as a player's coach, he was a former lineman at Ole Miss and played in the Peach Bowl nearly 50 years ago. Unfortunately, the team he coached has not had the same success since he retired. Who is this famous coach and what team did he coach to back-to-back titles?

I question if such a scheme would motivate the formation of "superteams" to make a run for a title. Not that such motivation does not exist today, but I could see this taking things to a new level. Using Broward County as an example...kids at Miramar and Deerfield Beach presently have a reasonable shot at making it to a Class 8A final. If they were together in Div 1 with all of the Broward private school powers and 6A Miami-Dade schools, those odds would decrease big time. So, if a kid liked the idea of playing for a title, he might be even more compelled to transfer in the future. I could see kids collaborating and deciding to make an all-star team at a certain school a certain year to make a run...like what happens in basketball. The ease with which kids can transfer makes it possible. In addition, you could have a team in DIV 1 that falls out of favor and loses most of their talent and is now getting blown away. Smaller schools would be especially prone to this, ie Champagnat, Chaminade, Clearwater Central Catholic, etc.

Carol City has played in 4 state title games over the past 25 years(1997, 1997, 2003, 2016), and won each time. In those 4 games, they gave up a total of 30 points. In the 20 playoff games they played those years, they held their opponents to 1 TD or less in 14 of the games. For some perspective, Northwestern, who has a pretty good D, has given up 58 points in their past 4 title games and in 20 playoff games those title years held their opponents to 1 TD or less in 3 of the games. Very few teams have held a state final opponent to less than 100 yards of total offense. Carol City has done it twice in the past 15 years, something no other team can claim. In their 13-0 win against Edgewater in 2003, their defense gave up only 93 yards of offense and 7 first downs. In their 14-6 win against Lake Gibson in 2016, their defense gave up only 89 total yards of offense and 5 first downs. That included only 19 net rushing yards in 26 carries. Good job Bocefous!