OldSchoolLion
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Posts posted by OldSchoolLion
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35 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:
AHA!
I believe FHSAA's old website used to have the school populations used to determine classification assignment. I'm not sure if it is on their new website.
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15 minutes ago, 181pl said:
If American heritage plantation has 2,800 students why the hell are they in 5a? That's an 8A School.
That includes students outside 9-12.
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Oh boy, I might get in trouble for this one. Not that anyone out there might have strong opinions.
To get to the final, this team had to shut down an All-American rb and beat an undefeated team many folks thought was the best team in the state, all-classifications. Fortunately for them, they had their own All-American player to assist with that task. During the season, this team gave gave up less than 10 points per game, on average, including numerous shutouts against quality teams. In the title game, they held their opponent to under 100 yards of total offense and won the game without completing a pass. The classification for which they won the title is arguably one of the most brutal in FHSAA history.
Who is the team? What hs All-American played on this state championship team?
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3 minutes ago, AmstaffNole said:
Niceville vs Dwyer 2009... Matt Elam
Shoot you can list Elam, Jacoby Brissett, Nick O'Leary, Gerald Christian, and Curt Maggit as all world Hs players too lol.
It is Dwyer. Very good. That Niceville team took out Lincoln and Edgewater on the road. Dwyer was just...Dwyer that year...a great team.
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26 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:
Two small, picky corrections. First Bishop Moore's second title was in 2015 and not 2005. Second, I am pretty sure the enrollment numbers for American Heritage Plantation are not in the 2,700 range but probably about a thousand less. Otherwise, they would be in class 8A, which would be horrible for the Orlando metro area!
BM corrected..thank you, Carter. Concerning AHP, "Note that some of the numbers below include students outside grades 9-12."
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3 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
I would look it up if I knew where these records were kept but as I've stated many times FL doesn't do a good job of keeping records (as was apparent in my 600/700 wins thread as I discovered many errors in the state record book that was not charted correctly)
I know where to find them. You young people really need to get with it and learn how to use technology.
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2 questions left...Hey, how come none of the answers is Madison County? Dissed again.
9. Which 2 counties have had 3 or more private schools in a state final in one year?
10. Which was the first county to have 2 different teams each play in back-to-back state finals?
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9 minutes ago, Nulli Secundus said:
12)In terms of population, this is the largest county NOT to have a back-to-back state champion. Orange
That is correct! It is Orange County,
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3 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
The sad reality is I think that no matter what system you use there will always be teams who will naturally struggle
Let me ask you this, you recently did that thread about the worst teams in FL as of late, how many coaches have those programs had since 2010?
Even if a team is losing they usually have a decent shot of retaining some talent if they have stability but if you firing a coach every year and nothing changes I can't blame kids for wanting to go somewhere else
I've seen several programs who used to be good that seemed to start going downhill once the stability of the program became erratic
I did a thread on this a while back. I would say a coach needs a good 5-7 years to lay a sustainable foundation. The operative word there is "sustainable."
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2 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
The sad reality is I think that no matter what system you use there will always be teams who will naturally struggle
Let me ask you this, you recently did that thread about the worst teams in FL as of late, how many coaches have those programs had since 2010?
Even if a team is losing they usually have a decent shot of retaining some talent if they have stability but if you firing a coach every year and nothing changes I can't blame kids for wanting to go somewhere else
I've seen several programs who used to be good that seemed to start going downhill once the stability of the program became erratic
That would be a good assignment for you!
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Cocoa, Lakeland, Manatee, Mainland, Naples, Niceville, St Augustine, Vero Beach to name a few...I really struggle calling these "rural" programs. They have proven their ability to consistently compete with schools from the big metro areas. I think it is an insult to their programs to potentially lower their level of playoff competition and deny them a chance to compete against some of the best programs.
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10 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
But how many actually make it consistently on the current format?
Last year i think we had 4-5 tampa teams make the state semifinals but none made the finals
Lately only 2 teams in Tampa have been able to argubly consistently make the finals and that's plant and Armwood but now that plant has fallen off they won't be going to the finals anytime soon in my opinion and Armwood while they can has now missed the finals the last 2 years (ironically as their Region got significantly stronger than it was in the 6a north previous)
The only Palm Beach teams I can remember making the finals in past 5 years would be Oxbridge and kings academy (both in 3a north regions that argubly were pretty easy paths) and Pahokee (in 1a which I believe would stay the same in the suggested idea if I read that correctly)
Before that I'm guessing last Palm Beach team to make the finals was Dwyer in 2013?
So it's not like the current system has lead to teams in those counties to pile up state championship appearances
But let's be honest can you really create a classification of 15-16 teams with those private schools or would people then complain that it's too small of a classification or complain about UC being in the same classification as STA and could be forced to play them in a early round as the result of having a very small Region? I just think even with the problems of combining the publics/privates in a urban/rural setting would actually be less problematic than separating them would be
If you want I can show you what I drawn up and you can share the pros/cons of what a system like this would have in action (note it was done I think last year so I didn't include any new schools from this year or projected for next year into it)
As I have stated ad nauseum, we have a laser focus on the better teams in the state and how to deal with them. Our biggest threat as a sport are the numerous, floundering programs out there and the widening gap between them and the better teams.
Our focus on future systems improvements needs to be upon how to enable those teams to be more competitive and get some momentum. Whether we use the present system or an urban/rural system, that does nothing to help the Tampa Leto's and Strawberry crest's of the world.
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7 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
But how many actually make it consistently on the current format?
Last year i think we had 4-5 tampa teams make the state semifinals but none made the finals
Lately only 2 teams in Tampa have been able to argubly consistently make the finals and that's plant and Armwood but now that plant has fallen off they won't be going to the finals anytime soon in my opinion and Armwood while they can has now missed the finals the last 2 years (ironically as their Region got significantly stronger than it was in the 6a north previous)
The only Palm Beach teams I can remember making the finals in past 5 years would be Oxbridge and kings academy (both in 3a north regions that argubly were pretty easy paths) and Pahokee (in 1a which I believe would stay the same in the suggested idea if I read that correctly)
It's a perception thing. It won't going over well stating, "Well, you guys really don't win many state titles, so it's a moot point if now we make it even harder for you."
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1 minute ago, KeemD321 said:
11. You can add Brevard
That is correct! One more to go.
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15 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
I actually drew up a idea that would basically do this
It actually makes sense considering with open enrollment a major city has teams who can recruit whether they are public or private (despite claims of some people on here publics in cities like Duval, Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, hillsborough, and orange counties recruit more than most private schools in florida) so it makes sense to level the playing field that way
People who really WANT the field leveled would support this idea because enrollment is a broken system for that and there isn't enough elite teams in Florida (based on what is defined as elite by the "experts" on here) that would actually work as a promotion/regulation system and would create a whole new set of problems
This system will create problems as well, especially if one does not separate private and public schools. All but one of the aforementioned 16 private schools are in an urban area (assumes Tallahassee is "rural") In a manner of speaking, the private school "problem" will become concentrated.
Let's assume there would be 3 urban classes and call them Class 1-3. The state finals each year, at least for now, could look like this...
Class 3 STA vs public school
Class 2 AHP/Cardinal Gibbons vs public school or Bolles
Class 1 Chaminade-Madonna vs Trinity Christian
For the sake of discussion, let's say public schools in metro areas presently have about 7 chances to get into a state final(2 in 8A, 1 in 7A, 2 in 6A, 1 in 5A, 1 in 4A). With the scenario described above, public schools in metro areas may have 2 slots, at best. How is that going to go over?
With our current lineup of powerhouse teams in the state, it is possible that Tampa and Palm Beach-area schools could get left out of the finals for years at a time. Will that be a demotivator? The urban Class 1 would be loaded with strong private school teams.
I like the idea that it would improve competition overall. But with the recent trend to have more classes and more playoff teams, I see a lot of squawking when certain public school used to making state finals are potentially getting shut out.
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33 minutes ago, CoachMcG1 said:
If the goal is to even the playing the field, the FHSAA has already come up with the solution. I do not think the idea has gotten past the discussion phase in the advisory committees. It is to split up into "Urban" and Suburban by county and then have 3 classification in each. Urban would be Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, Duval, Orange, Hillsborough and Pinellas. Suburban would the rest of the counties. Rural remains the same.
The logic behind that idea is that those 7 counties win the most state championships, so splitting into 2 divisions would accomplish the goal.
An irony is that there are a ton of weak/marginal teams in those urban counties. I would be very disappointed to see a setup like this. A lot of playoff rivalries developed over many years would be lost.
A big city school versus a non-metro school is intriguing for me, ie Edgewater traveling to Niceville for a state semi.
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8 minutes ago, Coach said:
I'm from the Orlando area and I think the biggest thing to happen in regards to Osceola is the competition. Nobody really doubts that Osceola is a good football team. But, in Osceola county, who competes with them? They zombie through every team in their county and their District isn't necessarily strong. I think the teams in Orange get more respect because the county is so deep with talent - in 8A you have Apopka, Dr. Phillips, West Orange is on the rise, etc. So Osceola being the "big dog" in their county will always have more attention on them after they lose as opposed to when they win because them losing is more newsworthy than beating up on Celebration, St. Cloud, Harmony, etc...
That said, what Coach Nichols has done there is impressive. Year in and year out, that is a solid program. They have a chance this year to finally get over the hump.
Osceola County is somewhat of a unique situation with that "big dog" phenomenon and a large Hispanic population. Possibly it's a bit like Naples in Collier County or Mainland in Volusia County. That dominant school is going to make it difficult for newer schools to get traction.
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28 minutes ago, Tisfreefl said:
Bloomingdale has been open since the mid 80’s and used to be a doormat program. They host STA in their first matchup ever for their first opportunity at a state final appearance. This is the furthest they’ve gone in the playoffs.
I remember those doormat days. It's amazing to think that some of today's doormats might be a powerhouse in the 2050's.
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Clearly their behavior is unacceptable. But it begs the question "why?" In addition to being a talented football player, the kid in the first video is supposedly one of the better wrestlers in the state in his weight class. So, he plays at least two contact sports.
Wrestling is a fairly disciplined sport and someone who cannot control their anger will have problems. If he was a complete loose cannon, I doubt he would have made it through an entire season and competed at the state wrestling tournament.
There are likely certain things that "set him off." He needs therapy, not jail time. Anyone out there who has seen combat and/or grown up in a physically abusive home knows there are certain stimuli which can subconsciously trigger aggressive behavior.
We train soldiers to be aggressive, but we don't like it when they return from the battlefield and cannot "turn it off." Similarly, we are encouraging aggressive behavior in teenagers in certain sports, but we don't like the outcomes, at times. There are certain kids who are going to have more of a challenge than others learning how to "turn it off." Take a kid who has some mental health issues, naturally high testosterone levels, and an alcoholic father who beats him, and you've got a time bomb. Whether it be a soldier or a hs football player, it's our responsibility to help these people. In a manner of speaking, we have watered the seed and helped create them. Throwing them in jail is just sweeping the "problem" under the carpet.
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A survey of 800 adolescent athletes playing 10 different sports found that 13% of students deliberately tried to hurt an opponent at least once during a game.
One Minnesota survey found that 17% of adolescent athletes said that an adult had hit, kicked, and slapped them while participating in sports. Is it any wonder some of these kids might act aggressively?
A survey demonstrated that 13% of parents admit they’ve angrily criticized their child’s sport performance after a game...creating stress in kids which can lead to excessive aggression.
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4 hours ago, Tisfreefl said:
Wharton who lost to Pompano Beach Ely.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-2002-12-13-0212130020-story.html
Four years ago, both coaches took over hapless programs. Ely was 0-10 in Davis' first season in 1998. Wharton was 1-9 that same year under Wood, who was promoted from defensive coordinator when coach Dan Acosta quit after the first game.
Today, each will lead 13-1 teams onto the field at Doak Campbell Stadium, both having achieved success predicated on two basic principles: a physical rushing attack and a dominant defense.
Unlike Ely, which reached the state semifinal in Davis' second season, Wharton's meteoric rise didn't come until this fall, the school's sixth year of existence. The Wildcats' record the past five seasons: 1-9, 1-9, 2-8, 2-8, 4-6.
"We were terrible," Wood said. "Weak, slow, didn't know what to do, didn't know how to get better, didn't believe in themselves, didn't believe they could win."
It is Wharton. Very good! What they did is very rare in modern times. Most newer programs wait many years, if ever, to make a state final.
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When this 13-0 north FL team came into the state final averaging 45 points per game, prospects for a state title looked good. Especially after winning two impressive games on the road to get get there. It was not this program's first trip to a state final.
Unfortunately, this team ran into an opponent averaging 48 points per game and led by a high school All-American and future NCAA All-American who lit up the scorecard and led his team a dominating win.
Who was the north FL team that suffered that loss and which team beat them?. Who was that hs All-American on the opposing team?
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19 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:
I am going to take a wild guess and say, Estero. If right, the lost to Osceola in the title game.
It's a central FL team. They had a couple of big upsets on their playoff run.
The Best FL HS Offense of Each Decade
in The Huddle
Posted
I am going to count these down. Let's start with the 70's. Best offense of the 70's goes to Milton's 1979 squad, coached by legend Hurley Manning..
The Panthers won back-to-back 3A titles (there were 4 classes then) in 1978 and 1979, taking down 2 south FL powerhouses to do it (Atlantic and Glades Central). In 1979, Milton shut out 1976 state champion Godby in the first round 13-0, then put up 40+ points each against Lee and Oviedo. In the final, they ran over Glades Central 35-6. That sort of offensive output in the playoffs was not terribly common.
And who led the Panthers both years? It was Greg Allen, one of the fastest athletes to have ever come through FSU. Competing on FSU's track team, Allen ran a 10.82-100 meters, long-jumped 24'11¼" and was clocked at 4.28 in the 40-yard dash. As a true freshman Allen finished with 888 yards and three touchdowns, his 6.4 yards per carry average was 5th best in the nation and enough to earn him freshman All-American honors. He earned All-American honors his junior and senior seasons. He was drafted by the Cleveland Browns in the second round, 35th overall in 1985. His NFL career lasted just two seasons, one year in Cleveland and one in Tampa the following year.
He rewrote the FSU record books while he was there. When he graduated, he was atop every single rushing statistic....attempts, yardage, touchdowns, average per carry and he was tops across all the categories: career, season, game. He had all of the records. His record of 20 rushing TD's during the 1982 season and single game rushing record of 322 yards still stand today, over 35 years later. His career rushing yardage of 3769 and 44 career rushing TD's still rank near the top in FSU history.