OldSchoolLion
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Posts posted by OldSchoolLion
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5 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:
To answer about Bolles vs Trinity Christian
http://jacksonville.com/sports/high-schools/2017-09-14/after-nearly-20-year-wait-bolles-and-trinity-ready-clash
1700 vs 2300... no, not much of a difference.
If we really do the math, it is 587 difference, assuming half to be female, you are down to 293, if we assume 5% play football you are talking maybe a 15 person difference in roster size. I am not buying size in this case. It probably has more to do with Southeast not being competitive.
I believe is was Jenkins, who turned Lakeland in about some transfers. When the FHSAA investigated and punished Lakeland, this is when our fantastic state legislature decided to meddle in high school athletics because if you look who led the charge it was people with connections to Lakeland. Lakeland and Vero both have the $$$ to bring teams to their stadiums, so they use that to their advantage to bring some Miami school who has no chance of winning to get some money. I am surprised they don't play Lake Gibson though.
"Since we were always in different classes, Coach Rogers would not play anyone under [what class Bolles was in],” Belger said. “It wasn’t because we were afraid to play, look at who we’ve played over the years. It’s just he wasn’t going to play anyone smaller."
This is the exact same reasoning I heard when St Thomas would not play Chaminade back in the early 2000's, when both were probably amongst the top 10-15 programs in the state, regardless of classification. I guess the thought is, "If we win, folks will say we were expected to win, but if we lose, we are over-rated."
It's not like losing would have cost Coach Smith or Coach Rogers a trip to the playoffs. And I hardly think either's job would have been in jeopardy with such a loss.
Remember what happened around 20 years ago? ...the internet exploded, Beef O'Brady's football bowl.... We went from state classification rankings showing up once per week in small print on the back of the sports page to "all classification" rankings front and center on the internet. We went from obscurely referenced mythical national champions at the end of the season to weekly national rankings.
So, we are going to deny our local communities and players the joy and excitement of fantastic high school football games because... we are afraid we might drop in the rankings? I'd bet the farm that players on these teams would have chomped at the bit to play each other. And I am convinced it is this kind of stuff that keeps some of those on the fence about our game from becoming more dedicated fans and that allows the game's critics to claim we have lost perspective.
If there is anything more to this stuff than ego, I have an open mind and will take my crow extra crispy, please. 30 years ago, I never remember hearing coaches worrying about "playing down" as long as the competition was solid.
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4 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:
To answer about Bolles vs Trinity Christian
http://jacksonville.com/sports/high-schools/2017-09-14/after-nearly-20-year-wait-bolles-and-trinity-ready-clash
1700 vs 2300... no, not much of a difference.
If we really do the math, it is 587 difference, assuming half to be female, you are down to 293, if we assume 5% play football you are talking maybe a 15 person difference in roster size. I am not buying size in this case. It probably has more to do with Southeast not being competitive.
I believe is was Jenkins, who turned Lakeland in about some transfers. When the FHSAA investigated and punished Lakeland, this is when our fantastic state legislature decided to meddle in high school athletics because if you look who led the charge it was people with connections to Lakeland. Lakeland and Vero both have the $$$ to bring teams to their stadiums, so they use that to their advantage to bring some Miami school who has no chance of winning to get some money. I am surprised they don't play Lake Gibson though.
...concerning Manatee/Southeast, here are the scores in the recent past. In 2007, Southeast had a losing year, but still managed to keep the game relatively close. I know I am Monday morning quarterbacking, but I cannot see abandoning the ship after a few rough years, especially when the past 2 out of 3 games were not terrible losses.
There has been some turmoil on the coaching front, so I think Southeast should expect some rough times until a new coach gets settled in for a few years. My concern is that we are becoming less and less patient with losing at a high school level and not giving new coaches enough time to establish a solid foundation.
Manatee's program has been on the decline. That plus a new coach should give the folks at Southeast some hope of winning in the future. Wouldn't it be a marvelous accomplishment for a new coach to say he was the first one to beat Manatee in 10+ years. ...maybe no chance of that now.
Manatee won unless noted below
2016 42-24
2015 47-0 John Warren, coach of Southeast, steps down after 2 seasons.
2014 39-26
2013 62-0 Legendary coach Paul Maechtle of Southeast, coach for 33 years, steps down. He won 283 games, took the Seminoles to five state championship games and won two state titles.
2012 52-13
2011 48-6
2010 31-24
2009 30-26
2008 16-14
2007 28-16 Southeast was 4-6 this year
2006 28-21 Southeast won
2005 13-6 Southeast won
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Data below came from Maxpreps. Check out Texas. One has to wonder if this is a reflection of kids not feeling a need to seek out private schools for better coaching, resources, exposure, etc. California has 5 Catholic schools in the Top 100, Ohio has 4, and Florida has 2. Interestingly, Texas has a large Catholic population(much larger than Ohio and Florida) and a large number of Catholic schools, yet none of them them show up on the list, and there is only 1 private school from Texas on the list. Likewise, the biggest talent in Texas is coming from the public schools. As I have mentioned in other posts, Texas citizens pay big property taxes to support the public schools, so maybe they feel more invested. And I probably wouldn't being going out on a limb saying that community support in Texas, as a whole, blows away Florida.
Florida Georgia Alabama S Carolina Arkansas Texas Ohio California TOTALS All-Americans/Private 9 1 0 0 0 1 0 7 18 All-Americans/Public 2 4 1 2 0 6 1 8 24 Top 100 schools/Private 4 1 0 0 1 1 4 6 17 Top 100 schools/Public 6 6 3 3 3 13 6 13 53 -
Interesting article about the great Manatee-Southeast rivalry game that did not happen this year. It's a good read.
http://www.bradenton.com/sports/article156800989.html
I don't understand. A school of 2300 vs a school of 1700 and some feel this is too much of an advantage? I think we sometimes forget that these games serve a function beyond wins and losses, and that is the social aspect of the game. When worrying about losing and rankings take precedence over the community, we've lost perspective.
Here are a few more scenarios that puzzle me. It would be interesting to know the motivations/barriers behind these.
Bolles-I would think every year they would play at least one of the good private schools like University, Trinity and/or Bishop Kenny, but that seems to be more the exception than the rule.
St Thomas Aquinas-Catholic vs Catholic can be great angle. Used to play Cardinal Gibbons but stopped. Played Columbus once a number of years back-close game but never happened again. Never play Pace, Chaminade or Archbishop McCarthy. When Chaminade had those state championship teams under Coach Guandolo back in the early 2000's, everyone in south Florida wanted to see this matchup, but I heard Aquinas would not play them-something about nothing to gain and everything to lose. Not sure if that is true or not.
Lakeland-Does play Kathleen and Jenkins regularly(which is nice), but will usually schedule one of the really weak teams from south Florida in lieu of playing Lake Gibson. In 2004, Lakeland won 5A and Lake Gibson was runner-up in 4A. What a game that would have been! Instead, Lakeland played a mediocre Miami team and blew them out by about 40 points.
Vero Beach-Great teams north and south, but until recently have not strayed too far from home.
Deerfield Beach-Had a great rivalry with Dillard but have only played 2 of last 5 years.
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If you look at where the kids are from on UCF's roster, it is really impressive. They are pulling kids from all over the state, from a lot of different schools with good programs, which will open doors for future recruits from those schools. They have got kids from some of the good Georgia programs across the line too, ie Colquitt County, Valdosta. I don't think UF has been able to get any kids from that area of late.
http://ucfknights.com/roster.aspx?path=football
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2 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:
Another area is North Central Florida (Ocala to the Gulf, North to Lake City to where ever you want to stop Tallahassee)...
- 1978-Dunnellon
- 1979-Dunnellon
- 1980-Gainesville
- 1981-Palatka
- 1982-Lafayette (Mayo)
- 1983-Palatka (runner-up)
- 1985-Bradford (runner-up)
- 1987-Suwannee
- 1988-Suwannee
- 1988-Williston (runner-up)
- 1989-Suwannee
- 1990-Buchholz
- 1990-Suwannee
- 1991-Santa Fe
- 1992-Newberry (runner-up)
- 1994-Santa Fe
- 1994-Vanguard (runner-up)
- 1994-Union County
- 1995-Union County
- 1996-Union County
- 1997-Chiefland
- 1997-Columbia (runner-up)
- 1997-Taylor County (Perry)
23 representatives in a 20 year period. 17 state championships, 6 runner-ups
- 1998-Madison County (runner-up)
- 1999-Suwannee (runner-up)
- 2001-Madison County
- 2003-Madison County (runner-up)
- 2004-Union County (runner-up)
- 2005-Trinity Catholic
- 2006-Trinity Catholic (runner-up)
- 2007-Madison County
- 2008-Newberry (runner-up)
- 2010-Trinity Catholic
- 2011-Madison County (runner-up)
- 2012-Trenton (runner-up)
- 2012-Gainesville (runner-up)
- 2012-Madison County (runner-up)
- 2013-Trenton
- 2014-Hamilton County (runner-up)
- 2015-Trenton
- 2017-Madison County
18 representatives in a 20 year period and 5 of them coming from the new 1A rural classification where half the teams are in the North Central Florida area. 7 state championships with 11 runner-ups and Madison County and Trinity Catholic having 5 of the state titles.
Part of the biggest reasons why is the growth of Florida in weird and different ways. If you look at Orlando, Palm Beach, Broward, and Tampa these areas have large growth but the transients didn't join football in large numbers. As a result different attitudes relating to football, no history, no tradition, no joining of youth leagues, no coaching connections to the communities, because there isn't a community to connect to.
...great comment above.
...concerning 1985-2000.
Between 1970-1885, Florida had 4 classes, things were quite stable, and there was a lot of parity in the classes. You typically didn't see a lot of blowouts late in the playoffs. I think 1986 was a very pivotal year in high school football because we went to 5 classes and you started seeing much more movement of teams from class to class.
That is when some good teams left 3A, ie Bartow and Godby, leaving 3A a relatively weak class. Madison County was playing up in 4A! This may be part of the reason Suwanee was able to dominate the way they did for a time in 3A. But as quickly as that window opened up, it closed for a few years in the early 90's when 3A became strong again with teams like Bolles coming in. In 1994, once again there a big exodus of good teams from 3A, ie Bolles, Glades Central, Lakes Wales, South Sumter. 3A became a relatively weak class again and that may be part of the reason Union County dominated the way they did for a few years. ...yet more movement in the late 90's with strong teams like Bolles and Glades Central coming back to 3A.
I offer this as an example of the ever-changing landscape that was taking place then and that has continued through today. I can see where programs like Suwanee and Union County could have great success for a time, creating great expectations, and then lose momentum when a classification has a slug of very strong teams come in.
After 1985, I think we started losing some rivalries with all of the movement that started taking place in the classes. And as soon as you started developing a new rivalry, oops, things change again. As a kid, you watched your big brother play in that rivalry game and you couldn't wait to get your shot at that team you hated so much. We evolved to a point where it seemed you never knew who you might be playing year-to-year. I can see where some communities lost interest when their team started playing against teams they had never heard of. And without districts now in the lower classes, the situation is probably even worse, with the better teams having to play whoever they can manage to get.
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11 Florida kids were recognized, including 6 linemen. California had 15 players recognized and Texas had 7, so those 3 states accounted for more than 50% of the players.
9 of those young men from Florida have been heavily recruited, 4/5-star athletes and were not surprises.
2 of the selections were pleasant surprises...
Jaivon Heiligh, a wide receiver for 7A state champion Venice, has not gotten much much attention from FBS colleges. In fact, he has not even been ranked in the top 300 wide receivers in the country, despite his accomplishments. He is currently committed to Coastal Carolina. In the state championship game, he had 8 receptions for 159 yards.
Daniel Longman, a kicker for 3A state champion Chaminade-Madonna, has not gotten much attention, if any. I had read that he was planning to walk on somewhere. Maybe this recognition will help to change that. He kicked the game-winning field goal in the last seconds of the state championship game.
First Team
WR — Jaivon Heiligh, Venice (Fla.)
The Venice star had a remarkable senior campaign. He broke the state's single-season records in receptions (132), receiving yards (2,139) and receiving touchdowns (32). His 2,139 yards receiving were tops in the nation and helped lead Venice to its first state title since 2000.OL — Nicholas Petit-Frere, Berkeley Prep (Tampa, Fla.)
The 5-star offensive tackle is one of the best players overall in the country. He checks in as the No. 3 rated offensive tackle in the 2018 class and is a Top 20 recruit overall.DL — Xavier Thomas, IMG Academy (Bradenton, Fla.)
The 2018 Clemson pledge was one of the most dominant defensive lineman in the country this past season. Thomas is one of six finalists up for the American Family Defensive Player of the Year award.DL — Andrew Chatfield, American Heritage (Plantation, Fla.)
Chatfield was one of the leaders on one of the top defenses in the country this past season. He finished the year with 25 tackles for loss and 14 sacks while leading American Heritage to its second consecutive state title and a spot at No. 4 in our Top 25.DB — Brendan Radley-Hiles, IMG Academy (Bradenton, Fla.)
The 4-star cornerback was one of the leaders on one of the top defenses in high school football. He finished the season with five interceptions and helped lead IMG Academy No. 2 in our final Top 25.Second Team
RB — Lorenzo Lingard, University (Orange City, Fla.)
The 2018 Miami Hurricane pledge rushed for nearly 2,000 yards and 26 scores in 2017. He checks in as the No. 2 running back from the Class of 2018 and was named the Gatorade Football Player of the Year in Florida.OL — Curtis Dunlap Jr., IMG Academy (Bradenton, Fla.)
The 6-foot-4, 370 pound offensive guard was one of the most dominant players in the trenches for the No. 2 team in high school football.DL — Nesta Silvera, American Heritage (Plantation, Fla.)
The 2018 Miami pledge helped anchor one of the best defenses in the nation. He finished his high school career with 107 tackles, 31 tackles for loss and 12 sacks.
DL — Taron Vincent, IMG Academy (Bradenton, Fla.)
The 5-star defensive tackle was one of the main cogs for one of the most dominant defenses in high school football this past season.DB — Patrick Surtain Jr., American Heritage (Plantation, Fla.)
The 5-star defensive back is the top rated corner from the Class of 2018. He is one of the best shutdown defensive backs in the country and if he didn't miss a few games because of a knee injury he would have been a first-team selection.P — Daniel Longman, Chaminade-Madonna (Hollywood, Fla.)
Longman was one of the best special teams players in the country this past season. He had nearly 50 punts land inside the opponent's 20 yard line and was also 18-of-19 on field goal attempts. -
9 minutes ago, peezy28 said:
You got your score mixed up. Miami Central beat BG this year 24-20
You are right! So, statement should have read ...
Florida schools were 6-14 in those games, and were outscored 483-283. On average, out-of-state teams scored 24 points, versus 14 points scored by Florida schools.
The error didn't have an effect on the average points per game or the overall trend.
If we look further back in time than what I did above, Central has gone 8-2 versus out-of-state opponents. That's an amazing feat to travel and win games like these, including a few blowout victories against solid programs.
Dematha(MD) 14-38
Hoover(AL) 24-21
Stephenson(GA) 21-20
Don Bosco(NJ) 50-21
Grayson(GA) 3-35
Elder(OH) 24-21
Camden County(GA) 42-45
Madison(TX) 48-6
Prattville(AL) 49-28
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4 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
Bc Jacksonville is a administration and coaching train wreck
The administration at those schools don't know how to operate a football team and from what i hear the coaches even let star players skip practice bc they don't want to risk players transferring
No discipline or authority at some those schools and results speak for themselves
The few schools who actually have coaching (Trinity, bolles, raines) win championships
That might explain why so much talent goes to the private schools in Jacksonville, ie searching for good coaching/structure and a program where they can get recognized. I have always thought it odd that in the Jacksonville area, the private schools get the press in football and in Dade County it's the opposite, with public schools having the vast majority of the success.
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37 minutes ago, s1nglewing said:
Miami-Dade has triple the population of Duval. 2.7 million to 900k.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/duvalcountyflorida/PST045216
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/miamidadecountyflorida/POP060210
I see the confusion now. When I made the following statement, I was considering just the cities themselves, and not all of Duval or Dade County.
"Jacksonville has always been an enigma for me. Like Miami, it 's a huge area with a huge population, including a significant amount of inner city kids."
So, I wasn't even thinking of schools like Southridge, Central, Killian, South Dade and Norland, who are not within Miami city limits. I was thinking of Northwestern and Booker T Washington. Going back to my initial point, how has Miami been able to take a bunch of inner city kids in public schools and create a couple of national powerhouses, but Jacksonville has not?
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27 minutes ago, smashmouth80 said:
Jacksonville has lacked coaching and administrative support as has been posted. And Jacksonville is a big city but is no where the size of Miami. Miami is almost triple the size in population.
Concerning population, check out this link, Smashmouth. Jacksonville actually dwarfs Miami, and there are numerous other sources which state the same. It's surprising, isn't it?
http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/florida-population/cities/
Am wondering
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29 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:
A slight correction. Apopka has won three state titles: 2001 vs Northwestern, 2012 vs Cypress Bay and 2014 vs Columbus.
So one Orlando area big school should be on your list above.
Hard for me to get into my thick skull that Apopka is part of Orlando. I spent time in Apopka as a kid MANY years ago and there was nothing there. That is imprinted on my brain, like Apopka is a distinct locale. I know the high school has been around for a long time, but I don't remember hearing too much about football there before 2000.
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19 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:
Regarding Jacksonville public schools, I think it's a combination of the good privates taking talent and, also, coaching. It is interesting to note that St. John's County, which is a southern suburb of Jacksonville, has done better with their public schools than Duval over the last 20 years.
Jacksonville has always been an enigma for me. Like Miami, it 's a huge area with a huge population, including a significant amount of inner city kids. Despite a number of private school options in south Florida, the public schools in Miami have always attracted a lot of talent and the results show. Have often wondered why Jacksonville has not mirrored Miami in terms of results.
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I think you'll find this very interesting and would like your opinions of the questions I developed based on the data. Below is a breakdown of all schools in Florida that have won 3 or more state titles.
Questions
What happened to the Tallahassee schools-no state titles since 2012?
Pensacola schools were always represented well in the state finals of the larger classes in the 1970's, 80's and 90''s. All of the following schools made appearances during that time: Pine Forest, Rutherford, Washington, Fort Walton Beach, Escambia, Woodham, Tate, Niceville, Choctawhatchee, Bay, Milton, Mosley. Between 1980-1991, 10 of 24 4A and 5A titles were won by Pensacola area schools. Since 2000, Pensacola schools have been represented in the larger school finals only a handful of times, and only Pensacola High has won a championship(2009). What happened?
None of the Jacksonville public schools are on the list. Does their talent get diluted by the private school powerhouses there? Other reasons why they have had limited success?
None of the larger schools in Orlando are represented on the list. Other than running into the south Florida powerhouses in the playoffs, any reason why?
There are a number of mature, private school programs in the Tampa area. Recognizing they have access to a rich talent pool and a potential advantage over public schools, why are they not represented?
In the 1980's and 1990's, the Sarasota/Bradenton area was a hotbed of high school football (Manatee, Southeast, Riverview) and most years 1 or 2 of those teams were playing for a state championship in the bigger classes. The success tailed off in the late 1990's. What happened?
Over the years, Polk County has produced many strong teams that often made deep runs in to the playoffs (Bartow, Fort Meade, Kathleen, Lakeland, Lake Gibson). There has been a noticeable tapering off of success this decade. What happened?
BIG SCHOOLS
Breakdown:
South-37
Central-21
North-14
Public-58
Private-14
Schools/# of state titles:
St Thomas Aquinas-10
Lakeland-6
Manatee-5
Miami Central-5
Carol City-5
Northwestern-5
American Heritage (Plantation)-4
Plant-4
Coral Gables-4
Godby-4
Suwanee-4
Miami Central-4
Bartow-3
Lincoln-3
Pine Forest-3
Merritt Island-3
SMALL SCHOOLS
Breakdown:
South-37
Central-7
North-34
Public-48
Private-40
Schools/# of state titles:
Bolles-11
University Christian-9
Trinity Christian-7
Pahokee-7
Glades Day-7
Glades Central-6
Jefferson County-6
Booker T Washington-5
Cocoa-4
FAMU-4
Baker-4
Chaminade-Madonna-3
American Heritage (Delray)-3
Frostproof-3
Blountstown-3
Port St Joe-3
Union County-3
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Below is a list of 20 Catholic high schools in Florida and the number of appearances each has made in a state football championship. Unless noted, all of these schools have been open for more than 50 years. There is well over 500 seasons of football represented, and they made a total of only 44 state finals appearances. Almost half of those appearances were by St Thomas Aquinas. These Catholic schools have a record of 15-21 in state final matchups versus public schools. Immediately below are 4 Catholic schools that had to wait a long time between state final appearances.
Bishop Moore 45 years
Christopher Columbus 32 years
Chaminade-Madonna 28 years
Tampa Jesuit 24 years
Lee County
Bishop Verot - 2 appearances (1990, 1994*)
Dade County
Belen Jesuit - 1 appearance (2009*)
Christopher Columbus - 3 appearances (1980*, 1982*, 2014*)
Immaculata-Lasalle - 0 appearances
Monsignor Pace - 1 appearance (2003-won)
Broward County
Archbishop McCarthy (opened in 1998) - 0 appearances
Cardinal Gibbons - 1 appearance (1990*)
Chaminade-Madonna - 6 appearances (1974*, 2002, 2003*- won, 2005*-won, 2016, 2017-won)
St Thomas Aquinas - 17 appearances- all games played against public schools (1991, 1992-won, 1996, 1997-won, 1999-won, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007-won, 2008-won, 2010-won, 2012-won, 2014-won, 2015-won, 2016-won)Note:
Note: Although not a Catholic school, American Heritage Plantation has been playing football for a long time and took quite a while to experience consistent success.They made the state finals in 1998 and did not return for 15 years.
Palm Beach County
Cardinal Newman - 0 appearances
Pope John Paul II (opened in 1980) - 0 appearances
Central Florida
Bishop Moore - 2 appearances (1970*, 2015-won)
Clearwater Central Catholic - 1 appearance (2013)
John Carroll - 0 appearances
Melbourne Central Catholic - 0 appearances
St Petersburg Catholic - 0 appearances
Tampa Catholic - 2 appearances (2007*, 2009)
Tampa Jesuit - 3 appearances (1968*-won, 1992*, 2002*)
North Florida
Ocala Trinity Catholic (opened in 2000) - 4 appearances (2005*-won, 2006*, 2008*, 2010-won)
Pensacola Catholic - 1 appearance (2004*)
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36 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:
I am no VB insider, but I would guess in the case of the teams an hour or more to the South, they don't want to play against a potential State Championship opponent during the regular season. Regarding the teams an hour north, last season they did play a solid Viera team albeit in the KOC. And for all but those in the know, Rockledge was an unknown factor going into last season since it had been awhile since they were good.
However, for the upcoming reason you are right. They could schedule some of the better Brevard teams without fear of giving anything away in a future matchup. I won't knock them for scheduling Venice, though; after all they are a defending state champion.
When Bolles won the 2A state title in 2002, they went down to play Chaminade in south Florida during the regular season and lost in a game that came down to a 2-point conversion at the end. The two teams met again in the state finals, which Bolles won 6-0. For a while(maybe still), it was the only state championship game in which no touchdown was scored. Future pro bowler Jon Beason played in those games.
I think the regular season game actually added some intrigue to the state finals, ie chance for revenge. Am sure Coach Rogers knew there was a good chance they would meet in the finals, so it was a gutsy move to schedule the regular season game.
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...interesting that Wisconsin has 4 defensive backs from Florida who start or get regular playing time, including the Tindal kid who intercepted the pass in the end zone. He is one of the many 3-star Florida kids getting recruited by these schools from outside the state.
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5 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:
I know Wisconsin had at least one, it called back a 20+ pass play on a scramble... 3rd and 10? But not many penalties were called anyway on either team, 7 for the whole game. 2 of those Wisconsin OL are All-Americans so maybe they are just as talented?
...no doubt. Richt alluded to some other stuff he was seeing. The blatant hold on the Miami receiver was later in the game. I was just curious if there was something I missed up to the meltdown. Coming in, I know Wisconsin's secondary had a reputation for getting away with stuff.
All things considered, it was pretty amazing the game was that close. Wisconsin played about the best game they could have, controlling the ball and lights out qb play, but still only won by 10. And it may been a different game had Miami's kicker made that chip shot.
For Miami to be missing so many skill players and qb play so bad, to play Wisconsin that closely says a lot for how far the program has come.
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Coach Richt comes across as a such a mild-mannered guy, so I was curious about his meltdown last night. I heard that he has had issues with lack of holding penalties called against opposing offenses this year. If that is true and his frustration has been building, it helps to explain his uncharacteristic blowup.
I don't remember a single offensive holding against Wisconsin last night. Does seem a bit suspect considering Miami's talent and speed on the D-line.
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...just curious.
Going back to the early 2000's, Vero used to play some interesting opponents-Rockledge, Lake Wales, etc. One year they even invited Chaminade from Hollywood to play in the Citrus Bowl and got beaten pretty badly. Do not remember the score-maybe 35-7.
There are some good teams to the north (Rockledge, Palm Bay, Cocoa) an hour or less away and some good teams to the south(Atlantic, Dwyer, Deerfield Beach) that are about a 1.5 hour drive down I-95.
Am sure there are good reasons, but am curious why Vero has to play in Virginia or drive 3 hours across the state when it has potential opponents that are much closer. Anyone know? Would think games against Atlantic and Deerfield would be especially interesting since they could be a potential opponent in an 8A state final, assuming Vero ever got there.
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Below are the 31 private schools in the final 2017 Maxpreps poll of top 100 high school football teams and some interesting facts about these schools. Their ranking is to the left of the school name and the date the school opened is to the right of the school name.
· The 31 schools are located in 15 different states.
· 23 of the 31 private schools are Catholic schools(in bold).
· 21 of the 23 Catholic schools opened their doors more than 50 years ago. 7 of those 21 schools opened more than 100 years ago.
· All 23 of the Catholic schools are located in very large, metropolitan locations.
The Catholic schools have very mature, and, in some cases, very successful athletic programs. It should not come as a surprise that many athletes want to attend and do not need much enticement to do so. All of these schools are in large metro areas, with at least one FBS school and/or NFL team nearby. Thus, they have access to a large talent pool.
Because these schools have been around so long, there is a lot of tradition, both academic and athletic, and it is not unusual to find family members from several generations who have attended the same school over the years. It is not uncommon for these high schools to be affiliated with Catholic grade schools that likewise have strong athletic programs and serve as a pipeline for talent.
So, there are a lot of reasons beyond recruiting that would explain why Catholic schools are so well represented in this poll. Most of these teams have had many years to build their programs and reputations in their respective communities. Below is an article that shares some interesting perspectives.
1 Mater Dei (CA) 1950
2 IMG Academy (FL) 1978
3 St John Bosco (CA) 1940
4 St Frances Academy (MD) 1828
5 St Louis (HI) 1846
6 American Heritage (FL) 1965
9 Archbishop Hoban (OH) 1953
13 Bishop Gorman (NV) 1954
15 De La Salle (CA) 1965
19 Bergen Catholic (NJ) 1955
30 Christian Brothers (MO) 1850
32 St Xavier (OH) 1831
38 University Lab (LA)
41 St Ignatius (OH) 1886
42 St Johns (MD) 1851
43 Bishop Miege (KS) 1958
44 Brentwood Academy (TN) 1969
48 Trinity (KY) 1953
53 Chaminade West Hills (CA) 1952
59 Pulaski Academy (AR) 1971
61 Oaks Christian (CA) 2000
67 Depaul Catholic (NJ) 1956
68 Chaminade (FL) 1960
76 St Joseph’s (PA) 1851
88 J Serra Catholic (CA) 2003
89 St Edward (OH) 1949
90 Cathedral Prep (PA) 1921
94 Prestonwood Christian (TX) 1997
95 Cardinal Gibbons (FL) 1961
97 Blessed Trinity (GA) 2000
98 Orange Lutheran (CA) 1973
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I would LOVE to see more of these national showcase games played in Florida. Imagine a team traveling to the Muck to play one of the Glades Central or Pahokee teams when they were very strong. Talk about intimidation.
Maybe I am forgetting, but I don't recall many teams traveling to Miami to play big games. Maybe they are skeered.
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41 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:
I think the :"different style" of of ball out there is perhaps just bluntly better coaching in some aspects. I would agree with what you state with West coast teams adjusting better for the most part but there are matchups that will make you go hmmmm.....
For example SJB ( arguably 2nd best team in CA and top 5 nationally) played a very solid schedule this year and put up loads of points all season long yet they could not find the endzone versus STA. Miramar drops 44 (with over 400 total yards) on STA with many of those big plays and points coming on flat out 1V1 matchups that Miramar appeared superior.
Now I ask , was Miramar better coached offensively (versus SJB) which allowed them to dice up STA's Defense, did they have superior athleticism offensively, or perhaps more intestinal fortitude ...?
I also flip the coin and note that although Miramar caught STA when they were playing better offensively during the season, they did allow a more yards, and a lot more points then SJB.
Now as good as Miramar played against STA that night there were also probably 25 SFL teams (including Park Vista) that could upset Miramar on a given night.
Many view or gauge superior coaching on W/L and how much the game was one by. Perhaps consistency is a bit overlooked where you have teams like Chandler and Centennial that showed up every week even in the games that they lost to quality teams.
...here's a thought concerning STA vs SJ Bosco game. I believe that was SJB's first game of the season. Probably not the ideal circumstances to be traveling across the country, playing a very talented defense, and a team for which you have no current game film...all in the first game of the season when you are trying to work out offensive kinks. Miramar played StA late in the season and Miramar seemed to get better as the season progressed.
The home teams in these games involving long travel seem to have a HUGE advantage. Check out the results below-home teams are in bold. Visiting teams were 5-15 , scored no more than 24 points, and when they did win, won by 7 points or less. I cannot remember many games in which a visiting team played a nationally ranked team and blew their doors off. If Chandler had played the Bulls at Traz Powell, I am confident it would have been a completely different game.
I think we sometimes forget that these are young kids, not used to travel, and likely very distracted by things other than the game. In that sense, the visiting teams often do not play up to their potential and, in some cases, the team we see is nothing like the "real" team. For that reason, unlike college, I think it is really stretching things to use these travel games to rank teams in polls.
Chandler (AZ) 55 vs Northwestern 20
Miami Central 24 vs Bishop Gorman (NV) 20
Dematha (MD) 38 vs Miami Central 14
Miami Central 24 vs Hoover (AL) 21
St Joseph (NJ) 44 vs Deerfield Beach 21
Colquitt County (GA) 42 vs Plant 8
Bishop Gorman (NV) 46 vs Cocoa 10
St Edward (OH) 24 vs Cocoa 14
Buford (GA) 17 vs Trinity Christian 0
Archbishop Wood (PA) 14 vs Oxbridge 13
St Thomas Aquinas 9 vs St John Bosco (CA) 3 (OT – Aquinas scored 3 in regulation)
Centennial (AZ) 12 vs St Thomas Aquinas 0
Bishop Gorman (AZ) 25 vs St Thomas Aquinas 24 (3 OT’s –Aquinas scored 10 in regulation)
Don Bosco (NJ) 24 vs St Thomas Aquinas 7
American Heritage(PL) 14 vs Bishop Sullivan (VA) 7
American Heritage(PL) 17 vs Colquitt County (GA) 14 (AHP was nationally ranked and Colquitt was 8-5)
American Heritage(PL) 21 vs Don Bosco (NJ) 0
Dematha (MD) 23 vs American Heritage(PL) 22
Marist (GA) 17 vs Godby 14 (Godby was state runner-up that year)
Bergen Catholic(NJ) 37 vs American Heritage(Delray) 7 (AH was state runner-up that year)
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12 hours ago, BrowardHandicapper said:
Top 10? Maybe..... I don't know if I'd shoot from the hip that fast. Take a look at the amount of points allowed by Chandler this year in state , not a traditional sign of a top 10 team IMO. Mater-Dei gave up some points but they played much stronger teams overall.
Having watched St. Frances (MD) as well, I think they would have wrecked both MNW or Chandler IMO......
Not much chatter on this game. It seems as if anytime a FL loses or gets pummeled no one wants to talk about it....Perhaps FL top teams were not as elite as some may believe.
Almost every team Chandler played in AZ put up as good or a better fight, along with more points then MNW on Chandler this year or perhaps MNW and other top FL teams were not as elite in 2017 as we believe?
It would have been good to see a MNW versus AHP this year. To me FL nationally may have been a bit down this year, 1A was par , 2A was a bit above par, 3A was above par, 4A may have been down a tad, 5A was up, 6A was par with perhaps no super elites, 7A was par with no super elites, 8A had no super elites and was par at best.
Let me ask you this 2016 Carol City or 2017 MNW?
...concerning Chandler. I have a family member who lives in Phoenix, so have a little knowledge of football there. Phoenix has some very good teams, but they are overshadowed by the California teams. The Top 10 teams in Arizona are all in Phoenix, so a lot of the top teams play each other every year and are battle tested. Below are the Top 10 teams in Miami and Phoenix, as rated by Maxpreps. Some of those Phoenix teams have been nationally ranked in the past. If the Top 10 teams in Miami played the Top 10 teams in Phoenix each year, I think the results would be surprisingly close.
...as far as Chandler giving up a lot of points. If you look at games on the West Coast, it's not unusual for them to be very high-scoring affairs. Mater Dei, ranked #1 in the country, gave up 21 points or more in 7 of their 15 games this year. Centennial(AZ), who won a state title this year, gave up big points in 3 of their 4 playoff games. I think they just play a very different style of ball out there. But I notice that the better teams from the West Coast seem to have the ability to adjust their defense when playing the East Coast teams, ie Centennial shut out Aquinas.
Top 10 Miami Teams
Northwestern 68.3
Central 63.9
Carol City 55.1
Miami 51.6
Columbus 50.6
Champagnat 44.0
Booker T 42.5
South Dade 41.8
Southridge 41.8
Palmetto 38.7
Top 10 Phoenix Teams
Chandler 68.5
Perry 57.4
Centennial 49.1
Saguaro 46.6
Mountain Pointe 46.5
Pinnacle 42.5
Hamilton 40.5
Liberty 40.5
Red Mountain 38.7
Notre Dame Prep 38.5
Opinions Needed-Breakdown of State Title Winners
in The Huddle
Posted
...just curious.
What reasoning is given for teams making these huge trips nowadays? Is it "fun," "teambuilding." "see the world," other?
Not sure how much "other" stuff Vero did on their trip, but I would find it pretty ironic if there was a kid who had never been to DC and missed out on seeing some incredible stuff to play a football game instead.