OldSchoolLion

...sounds like they must have a squeaky clean hs football system if they have time to pick at lint like they did in 2014 with a catholic school that has been in existence for 160 years. Nice to know that all of that corruption MS and LA are historically famous for has not influenced the public school programs. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Appreciate you asking, Gatorman! Although private schools only represent 14%, we all know that those schools are not equally distributed amongst the 8 classes. Simply due to the law of numbers, there is a very high probability that the state champions of classes 2A and 3A are going to be private schools. So, there is a pretty good chance that you are going to have at least 2 private school champions each year. Just like it wouldn't be a stretch to say that there is a pretty good chance that the 1A and 8A champ every year is going to be a public school. That's "domination" because the system skews it in that direction. l would propose we just look at the state champions of classes 4A-8A. Since the privates are at lower lower percentages in these classes, a disproportionate number of private state champions in these classes might be a sign of some unfair advantage. And, just to keep things tidy, would appreciate it if we could start in 2011 when we went to 8 classes. In classes 4A-8A since 2011, 35 state champions have been crowned(including any forfeitures). 10 of those championships went to private schools. So 10/35 champions, or about 29%, were private school programs. Is that disproportionate? Yes, indeed. So you are right, there are a disproportionate amount of private school championships! American Heritage (Plantation)-4(5A) Bishop Moore -1(5A) Bolles-1(4A) St Thomas Aquinas -4(7A) However, 8/10 were won by two schools. And it is those two schools that really skew the numbers. As I stated in a prior post, I think it is more accurate to call out the few dominant, private schools who we think have an unfair advantage, rather than make generalizations, as some do, that "private schools dominate." Even then, I think the folks at Aquinas have an argument that their academic and athletic programs are so excellent, they do not need to resort to recruiting or other funny business. Kids want to go there, and their parents do, too. ...as far as public schools losing 1-2 players to private schools. Nowadays, I think the shoe is just as likely to be on the other foot, with private school kids leaving to go to "better" public schools when it is in their best interest. I shared the data on the original post to help us visualize the football scene in certain regions of the state. Except for possibly Broward County, I am not totally convinced that "raiding" by private schools is having a profound effect on public school football performance. ...as far as "school(s)s much better than they should be for a school that size." I see where you are coming from. Relatively speaking, I don't think there are as many of these as some people may think. There are relatively few private school programs who are routinely beating the bigger, public schools with solid football football programs. I think there are some fine, small, private school programs, but I think they are often rated higher than they should be. Is Madison County not "better than they should be?" How about Booker T, Cocoa, Pahokee? I can name a number of small, public schools who one could argue are "better than they should be." I would like to think this is due to hard work, not raiding talent from nearby schools. And I would say the same for some of the small, private schools. I think any of us get annoyed when we are not given the credit we think we are due. Some have a perception that private schools are dripping with money and resources. That is hardly the case. I have been to public schools that look like the Taj Mahal compared to my old, private school. And yeah, my tax dollars are paying for those kids to get a free education in a beautiful school, with a beautiful stadium, while I am also paying $15k/year for my kid to sit in a 50 year-old classroom with an unsafe chemistry lab and no stadium to play in . Talk about an unfair advantage, and one much more important than an advantage on the field. It's an insult to the kids and the coaches to play the "private school card," as some do when the small privates win. And it would be no different than someone crying foul when Madison County or Pahokee stomp a much bigger program. My biggest beef with the whole private vs public kids debate is that it is not really about the kids. We overblow these gross inequities to justify manipulation of the system for the sake of "fairness." We deprive our kids of experiencing the excitement of playing in a playoff game against an age-old local rival now because, heaven forbid, if they lose to that little private school, it might scar the kid forever. We make them drive 200 miles to play in a game because those guys down the street have an unfair advantage. We put them in this football "bubble" that supposedly protects them from inequity. For all you young "grasshoppers" out there, it's the failures and losses that really build your character, not the victories. It's not the worst thing in the world to get humiliated by an American Heritage, but to do so with grace. Hate to tell you this, but the "other" guy often has an unfair advantage, grasshoppers. The quicker you learn that life lesson, the better you will get at dealing with it in a constructive manner, and the stronger you will be able to deal with adversity in your life.

That's a good catch. Bishop Moore would be a good one to include with Melbourne Central Catholic as a competitive private school in East Central Florida. A quick look over the past years and they certainly have had very good success against public schools, winning about 80% of their games. They have also gotten the best of the public schools in the playoffs. I don't believe East Central Florida is home to a lot of 5A schools except for Palm Bay and Merritt Island. Bishop Moore may have knocked them out of the playoffs certain years, but am not sure BM cost those schools any state championships in doing so. And even if we add BM to the mix, the Orlando metro area has such a large population, I think it would be questionable to conclude that private schools in that areas are causing a significant talent drain.

Maxpreps ran a similar poll back in 2014 using the prior 10 years of data. The point system used in 2016 was similar, but not exactly the same. Pahokee, Madison County, Glades Central and Ocala Trinity made the top 15 in 2014, but not in 2016. They were replaced by Apopka, Miramar, and the two American heritage schools in 2016. I chose to use 15 teams from a "source" rather than pull them out of my hat. Concerning the conclusions I stated, I think they would have been the same even if I had used the Top 15 from the 2014 poll.

Below is a geographical breakdown of the teams in Maxpreps’ latest poll of the 15 best Florida teams of the last ten years. The number before each team is their ranking in that poll and listed afterward is the classification in which they currently play. Schools in bold are private schools. For each region, I have listed the more competitive private school programs(my opinion) not already listed in the Top 15. At the end of this post you will find a discussion concerning how private schools might be affecting public schools and a breakdown of the Top 15 teams' records from 2006-2016. I did my best to make sure all of this data is correct, but I am not perfect, so forgive me if there are any errors! Southeast Florida Palm Beach County: 12 Dwyer (7A) 11 American Heritage Delray (3A) Other competitive private schools in the region: Glades Day (2A) Oxbridge Academy (3A) Broward County: 1 St Thomas Aquinas (7A) 15 Miramar (8A) 9 American Heritage Plantation (5A) Other competitive private schools in the region: Archbishop McCarthy (6A) 6-8 against public schools while in 6A Chaminade (3A) 13-6 (68%) against public schools in the past 10 seasons Cardinal Gibbons (5A) 63-20 (76%) against public schools in the last 10 seasons University School (4A) Knocked out of the last 4 playoff appearances by public school teams Dade County: 4 Booker T Washington (4A) 2 Miami Central (6A) 8 Miami Northwestern (6A) Competitive private schools in the region: Belen Jesuit (8A) Knocked out of playoffs by various public school teams each of the past 5 seasons Champagnat (2A) Columbus (8A) Knocked out of the playoffs by various public school teams each of the past 14 seasons. Monsignor Pace (4A) 24-21 against public schools in the past 10 seasons. Westminster Christian (3A) East Central Florida 10 Apopka 6 Cocoa (4A) Competitive private schools in the region: Melbourne Central Catholic (3A) West Central Florida 5 Armwood (6A) 3 Tampa Plant (7A) 14 Lakeland (7A) 13 Manatee (8A) Competitive private schools in the region: Tampa Catholic (3A) Tampa Jesuit (5A) Has been in the playoffs each of the past 9 years, and 5 of those years they were knocked out by a public school. Berkeley Prep (3A) Clearwater Central Catholic (3A) NE Florida 7 Bolles 45-11 (80%) against public schools in the last 10 seasons Other competitive private schools in the region: Trinity Christian (5A) 43-15 (74%) against public schools in the last 10 seasons University Christian (2A) How are private schools affecting the success of public school programs? Number of private schools by FHSAA class: 8A 2/89 7A 3/87 6A 1/81 5A 8/85 4A 12/48 3A 33/39 59/429(14%) schools competing in FHSAA Classes 3A-8A are private. The best Tampa area public schools have the upper hand, despite several competitive private schools in the area. Only one of those private schools typically competes against public schools in the playoffs. The Jacksonville area has three very competitive private school programs, but based upon the huge population of the Jacksonville metro area, it is questionable how much of a talent drain those schools place upon the area public schools. With 33 private schools in 3A, one would expect private schools to dominate the class. The six public school programs are: · Taylor County · Fort White · Baldwin · Newberry · Marathon · Taylor (Pierson) None of these schools are located within the limits of a large metropolitan area, so talent drain by private schools is probably not an issue. Based upon past records, Fort White is likely the only one of them who could claim it consistently wins, and even if they were in a class with 39 public schools their size, it is questionable whether they would dominate. So, it is questionable whether private schools in 3A are a significant barrier holding public school teams back from greatness. There are several competitive private school programs in both Palm Beach and Dade counties. Most these are in the smaller classes (2A/3A) and do not compete directly against public schools in the playoffs. None of them have had dominant success against public schools, especially the better public school teams. If there is one group of public schools that have a legitimate gripe about the private schools robbing them of talent and greater success, it is the public schools in Broward County. There are at least 8 competitive private schools in and around Broward County who could pull talent from these schools. Deerfield Beach and Miramar are schools that come to mind as examples of programs whose past success could have been constrained by the presence of so many good private school programs. Maxpreps Top 15 Florida Programs of the Past Ten Years (2006-2016) 1. St. Thomas Aquinas (Fort Lauderdale) — 396 points State titles: 8 Runner-ups: 1 Top 25 state rankings: 2006 (8), 2007 (6), 2008 (1), 2009 (5), 2010 (1), 2011 (12), 2012 (4), 2013 (17), 2014 (1), 2015 (3), 2016 (2) 2. Central (Miami) — 280 points State titles: 6 Runner-ups: 1 Top 25 state rankings: 2009 (7), 2010 (3), 2011 (7), 2012 (1), 2013 (2), 2014 (3), 2015 (2), 2016 (13) 3. Plant (Tampa) — 259 points State titles: 4 Runner-ups: 2 Top 25 state rankings: 2006 (3), 2007 (14), 2008 (2), 2009 (3), 2010 (8), 2011 (3), 2012 (21), 2013 (14), 2016 (7) 4. Booker T. Washington (Miami) — 249 points State titles: 5 Runner-ups: 1 Top 25 state rankings: 2006 (13), 2007 (1), 2011 (14), 2012 (2), 2013 (1), 2014 (2), 2015 (19), 2016 (17) 5. Armwood (Seffner) — 223 points State titles: 1 Runner-ups: 4 Top 25 state rankings: 2006 (9), 2007 (4), 2008 (9), 2009 (15), 2010 (5), 2011 (2), 2013 (12), 2014 (9), 2015 (10), 2016 (24) 6. Cocoa — 185 points State titles: 4 Runner-ups: 0 Top 25 state rankings: 2007 (20), 2008 (4), 2009 (2), 2010 (4), 2012 (16), 2016 (5) 7. Bolles (Jacksonville) — 169 points State titles: 3 Runner-ups: 2 Top 25 state rankings: 2006 (6), 2008 (8), 2009 (12), 2011 (8), 2012 (22), 2014 (18), 2016 (19) 8. Northwestern (Miami) — 162 points State titles: 2 Runner-ups: 1 Top 25 state rankings: 2006 (2), 2007 (2), 2008 (7), 2009 (17), 2010 (19), 2011 (19), 2012 (24), 2016 (6) 9. American Heritage (Plantation) — 152 points State titles: 3 Runner-ups: 1 Top 25 state rankings: 2013 (4), 2014 (5), 2015 (9), 2016 (4) 10. Apopka — 141 points State titles: 3 Runner-ups: 0 Top 25 state rankings: 2007 (18), 2009 (13), 2012 (7), 2013 (6), 2014 (6), 2015 (25) 11. American Heritage (Delray Beach) — 126 points State titles: 3 Runner-ups: 1 Top 25 state rankings: 2009 (21), 2010 (1), 2011 (6), 2012 (10), 2014 (11) 12. Dwyer (Palm Beach Gardens) — 122 points State titles: 1 Runner-ups: 1 Top 25 state rankings: 2008 (13), 2009 (1), 2010 (20), 2011 (9), 2013 (3), 2016 (18) 12. Manatee (Bradenton) — 122 points State titles: 1 Runner-ups: 1 Top 25 state rankings: 2009 (14), 2010 (9), 2011 (1), 2012 (5), 2013 (11), 2014 (24) 14. Lakeland — 118 points State titles: 1 Runner-ups: 1 Top 25 state rankings: 2006 (1), 2007 (15), 2008 (5), 2009 (11), 2010 (10) 15. Miramar — 116 points State titles: 1 Runner-ups: 1 Top 25 state rankings: 2008 (10), 2009 (4), 2011 (5), 2013 (13), 2014 (12)

Here is some information that describes how some other Southern states are handling the public vs private debate. TENNESSEE The debate for the Tennessee Secondary School Athletic Association hit a boiling point in 1995 when private schools won three of the five state football championships, outscoring their public opponents by an average of 13 points. Not long after, the TSSAA voted to create a new division for private schools which gave financial aid, and Division II was born in 1997. Division II crowned champions in two classes from 1997-2000 and 2007-16, and three from 2001-06. Beginning in 2004, the private schools that remained in Division I were subject to a 1.8 multiplier. In September 2015, the TSAA broadened its definition of “financial assistance program” to include work-study programs. As a result, Division II’s football-playing membership will grow from 31 in 2016 to 47 beginning this season. Only six private schools will remain in Division I. Division II has added a third class, AAA, for the upcoming season. It will be made up of the 11 teams with an enrollment of 531 or more. Class AA will have 19 teams with enrollments between 266-530, and Class A will be comprised of the 17 schools with an enrollment of less than 265. There are two classifications for Division II in the other major sports (basketball, baseball, softball and volleyball), which cuts down on travel. One coach who was interviewed brought up two issues with the Tennessee private football arrangement: Loss of rivalries with public schools and increased travel expenses. He noted that half of their six new football region opponents will require a 200-plus-mile round trip. He also thought nine classifications in the state was too many. GEORGIA The Georgia High School Association used a 1.5 multiplier for private schools from 2000-08. Beginning in 2012, private schools in the state’s smallest classification -- 1A, or schools with 520 or fewer students – began competing in their own playoffs. Public and private schools in the A class are grouped together for regular-season region play, then separated for the postseason. Seedings are determined by a power ratings system. There are 10 private schools outside of 1A, all of which fall in 2A through 4A in Georgia’s seven-class system. Single-sex schools have their enrollment doubled for classification purposes. Schools whose enrollment is more than 3 percent out-of-county students are moved up a class. Schools can request to move up in class. Outside of 1A, five private schools have combined to win seven football state championships since 1989. Four of those titles have come in 2A after the creation of A-Private. Marist is the only private school to win a championship in one of the larger classifications, capturing Georgia’s second-largest division in 1989 (3A) and 2003 (4A). ALABAMA The Alabama High School Athletic Association became the nation’s first prep governing body to approve a multiplier, doing so in 1999. Since the 2000-01 school year, the enrollments of AHSAA private schools have been multiplied by 1.35. The resulting figure is used to determine classification, which often results in private schools being bumped up a class. The change ultimately didn't scare private schools from signing up with the AHSAA, whose private-school membership has grown from 29 to 49 since the multiplier went into effect. Compared to George, Alabama has relatively few private schools, some with very large populations, and others with very small populations. This has made it difficult to create a 1A class similar to Georgia's. MISSISSIPPI There are only 10 private school teams remaining in the Mississippi High School Activities Association. The majority of the state’s private schools are part of the Mississippi Association of Independent Schools. The public vs. private debate in Mississippi has included a failed proposal to ban private schools from the MHSAA in 2013; three private schools leaving for the MAIS less than a month before the start of the 2015 season after the MHSAA upheld a rule banning out-of-state students from participating in sports; and a proposed 1.5 multiplier being narrowly voted down in 2015. The MHSAA has six classifications in football. The last year a private school won a state football championship was 2014.

Could not resist more great "Grasshopper" fun. I believe this is the first episode of Kung Fu in which the grasshopper is mentioned. ...if you think a blind man could not do that, watch this. I have ties to the Presas family and believe me, this man could easily kill most people blindfolded in hand-to-hand combat. Much respect to our grasshoppers on the board!

Below is an interesting article in which coaches who have coached for both public and private school football teams in Alabama speak out. What really struck me is the discussion about economics. One could argue that the big problem in high schools athletics is less of a public vs private thing, and more of a rich vs poor thing. In other words, some private schools may be winning because they have more funding. But the exact same can be said for the "richer" public programs. The following is a link to Florida's All-Sports Award winners. http://www.fhsaa.org/news/2017/0614 A quick peak shows some interesting trends. At the tops of the lists I see a number of affluent private schools and also some public schools frrm traditionally higher income areas. I don't see a lot of schools from traditionally very poor areas, even though we know there are some very good athletes in their talent pool. For example, the scores of Ponte Vedra and Vero Beach blow many of the private schools around the state out of the water. How do they do it? Are they recruiting better than the privates? If so, I don't hear many people complaining about it. Or is it possible that superior athletic program funding can sometimes trump superior talent. I have no idea what the budget is of those schools, but last time I was in those areas I saw some pretty fancy homes, if you know what I mean. 'If it isn't broke, don't fix it:' Crossover coaches say private school allegations are false Before he arrived at McGill-Toolen three years ago, Earnest Hill wasn’t sure what to think about private schools. He admits he had preconceived notions about private schools’ perceived advantages. “I think I looked at them like a lot of other coaches do now,” he said. “A lot of things people say about private schools are just not true. Once you get here, you see the difference. But if you haven’t been at a private school, you are always going to point fingers and make accusations.” Hill, now McGill’s head football coach, is one of many coaches statewide who have been on both sides of the ongoing public vs. private school debate. The Alabama High School Athletic Association has formed a Task Force to analyze competitive balance between the two when it comes to state championships. The task force could recommend a change in bylaws to the AHSAA’s Central Board of Control as early as next month that could alter the landscape of AHSAA championship play. During the 2016-2017 school year, private schools won 38 of 111 championships but just four of 35 in the major team sports of football, boys and girls basketball, softball and baseball. Officials agree that there’s a public perception that private schools enjoy an athletic advantage, but the task force is analyzing data to determine if that’s authentic and, if so, what should be done about it. “I don’t see it as an advantage,” said Hill, who coached at Spanish Fort, Walker and Greenville – all public schools – before joining the McGill staff as defensive coordinator. “We have 1,100 kids. Hoover has more than 3,000 so who has the advantage? I spent 17 years in public schools, and I didn’t know anything about private schools. “I don’t think we have the best athletes at McGill, but I do think we have great kids, a great atmosphere, a great curriculum and a great administration, so I guess maybe that is an edge. But we have our problems just like any other school.” Steve Mask has led St. Paul’s to two Class 5A state football titles in the past three years. However, before landing on the Saints staff, he also spent time has head coach at Bradshaw, Buckhorn and Colbert County, all public schools in north Alabama. “I basically think that if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it,” Mask said of the current AHSAA system, which includes a 1.35 multiplier for private schools. “The biggest complaint people have is the success a lot of schools are having. But if you just look at private schools, that is narrow-minded because there are some public schools having just as much success, and nobody is saying anything about it. If we are going to be a part of the same association, we should be under the same rules.” The clear dividing line, Mask pointed out, sits between schools that are funded well – whether they are private or city systems – and schools that aren’t. In the past six years, city schools won more than 40 percent of the boys state titles, private schools more than 30 and county schools a little more than 20 percent. Affluent schools, whether in suburban school districts or private schools, have found increased athletic success in the last decade. “If you look at the state championships, I would bet 80 percent of the championships are won by 30 percent of the teams – public or private,” Mask said. “You could go through just about every sport and check off 10 or 15 schools that will have a chance to win the title in each class each year. In my mind, that is a tribute to both public and private schools that are doing everything they can to help their students succeed.” Bayside Academy football coach Phil Lazenby has spent the last decade at the Class 3A private school in Daphne, winning 76 games and making the playoffs eight times. He led the Admirals to the state championship game in 2015. His career also included stints at Benjamin Russell, Southside-Gadsden and Guntersville, including multiple trips to state championship games. He said believes there are schools breaking the rules but doesn’t believe it is a problem limited to private schools. “(With this talk of changes) I think they are trying to placate a few schools that feel like some private schools are taking advantage of the situation,” he said. “We go through the exact same rules that everyone else does. If you get caught recruiting illegally, it is the same for public and private schools, and it goes on in both I can promise you. “There are always coaches trying to find an edge and going out and getting kids from different schools and systems,” he continued. “I agree with the AHSAA that if recruiting is going on, something needs to be done about it. But it is happening on both sides of the fence.” A pair of football coaches who had great success at McGill-Toolen – Bart Sessions and Caleb Ross – started their careers in public schools, went to McGill and have now returned to public school coaching and teaching. Sessions emerged as one of the state’s most coveted assistant coaches at Prattville, Davidson and Daphne before accepting his first head coaching job at McGill-Toolen, the lone Catholic private school in Mobile. He is now in his first year as Gadsden City’s head coach. “My opinion definitely changed when I got the McGill job,” he said. “I’m sure I thought all private schools were out recruiting and doing terrible things, but it definitely changes when you are at a private school. You see more the reality of it.” Sessions said when he took over at McGill, he talked to some private school coaches who had been in public school, including UMS-Wright’s Terry Curtis. “Terry told me from the start that you are going to be accused of recruiting every day as a private school coach,” Sessions said. “But he said if you have a great program, it will recruit itself and that is the case whether you are coaching in public or private school. I think there is a lot more recruiting going on in public schools than private schools today.” Ross spent time as an assistant at Prattville and Spanish Fort and served one year as head coach at Thompson before succeeding Sessions as head coach at McGill. He was hired earlier this year to lead the Opelika football program. “I think there are a lot of unknowns if you haven’t been on the private school side,” he said. “You hear things all the time that quite frankly aren’t true. It’s unfair to say that private schools recruit all these athletes. It’s just such a blanket statement. When I was at McGill, we never recruited and we never had to. Kids wanted to come to McGill, and their parents wanted them there not just for athletics but for the academics and moral structure as well.” So does there need to be a change in rules to level the playing field? There is certainly a contingent, led by state Rep. Ritchie Whorton (R-Owens Cross Roads), who believes so. Whorton proposed a bill during the last Legislative session that would mandate separate championships for public and private schools. The bill never reached a floor vote, but it appears the AHSAA will make some type of adjustment for private schools by the next reclassification in January. Sessions said he believes there is an easier solution than adopting a new rule or rules. “I think we already have great rules,” he said. “The rules are clear in what you can or cannot do as it pertains to recruiting. Unfortunately, there always have been a few bad apples who skirt the rules. If we can enforce the rules we have on the book, then I think everything is fine. I realize that is easier said than done. “We made some positive strides with the enforcement staff that has been hired,” he continued, referring to the AHSAA’s new Investigations Unit. “It just takes one prominent school or coach to get nailed, and it all stops or slows down. Every coach can tell you it happens and pretty much knows who is doing it. If those guys get caught and accused and have to sit out a year or whatever, I think everyone will take notice.”

I am sharing the results of this survey, in case you are interested. Interesting that 77% of coaches said recruiting is "somewhat or extremely widespread," but only 7% admitted to doing it. They asked some open-ended questions on the survey. Thought this coach's response was interesting. Question 11: What could or should be done to address high school athletic recruiting in Alabama? -- "Nothing will ever been done because some are too afraid of the coaches that are recruiting. We might as well do as Florida and make it completely legal to recruit."

Just for kicks, I seeded the teams in R2 and had American Heritage Delray at #14. Assuming no upsets other than AHD's, here is what their playoff schedule would look like based upon my seedings. I don't care how much desire one has, desire can't stop injury. A 3A team dressing out a relatively small number of players is likely to get a large percentage of their kids very banged up, if not seriously injured, playing teams that physical 5 weeks in a row(assuming a miracle and reaching the championship game). Miami Central American Heritage Miami Northwestern Miami Carol City Championship Game - Armwood So, maybe having 8 teams in each region would be more realistic. Just too much difference in talent levels between a 1 and a 14 to make it worthwhile playing that many teams. We saw what Central and AHP did to Chaminade, and Chaminade would likely be seeded ahead of several teams in R2. Even though I think Chaminade has better overall talent than Deerfield Beach or Miramar, I would give DB or Miramar a much better shot of surviving to the championship game simply because of their depth.

Sorry if I am missing something here... I am putting myself in the shoes of a kid competing in the Open Division on a #14seed, small school. I finish the year getting destroyed by Miami Northwestern in the first round. Later I see another team in my classification who I think my team could clearly beat, winning the state championship. In the NCAA tournament, even if one of the lower seeds gets blown out at the dance in the first round, they often are able to say, "Well, at least we won our conference title this year." If I am that kid, where is my motivation? Am not saying the main motivation of a kid should be a trophy or medal, but am being realistic, knowing the way many kids think.

What criteria would be used for determining who is in the "open" class? It's a fascinating concept, but I see a couple of challenges. In the fairly recent past, we have seen powerhouse teams fall off drastically when coaches left and/or there was a mass exodus of players. Flanagan and University School are teams that won state championships and then crashed. If you end up with one of those crashing teams in the open class, they will get blown out. I also think it is problematic to include the smaller private schools in this group. I think we sometimes overestimate "the private school effect" because we see them blowing out some weaker, big schools. These teams are often one or two injuries away from becoming B- teams. They simply don't have the depth to consistently compete against the much larger, elite programs. St Thomas can hold its own, but its enrollment is about 4 times the size of those 3A programs.

I recently read a post that spoke of "private school domination." There are 2,344 high schools in Florida, made up of 1,563 public schools and 781 private schools. I took a stab at pulling out the 25 best private school programs and then put them in one of 3 categories below. Do you agree/disagree with the teams and placements? What is I see is a number of very good programs, but only four I would say are truly "dominant" programs, capable of consistently beating the better public schools year in and year out. One of these is IMG, who is not costing any public schools championships. Percentage-wise, I don't believe there is a disproportionate number of "very good" private schools programs. Recognizing there are about double the number of public schools, I don't think we would have a problem finding 50 public school programs we could put in one of these three categories. I just don't see domination here. Do you agree/disagree? After going through this exercise, I think it is more accurate to call out the few dominant, private schools who we think have an unfair advantage, rather than making generalizations about all private schools. I would put Armwood, Cocoa and Madison County, to name a few, in the category of "dominant" public schools. I don't see a lot of people claiming they have an unfair advantage and recruit, simply because they dominate the competition like the Aquinas' of the world. What's good for the goose.... Truly dominant private schools, who consistently beat the better public school programs year in and year out: American Heritage-Plantation Bolles IMG St Thomas Aquinas Very good private school programs with consistent winning seasons, but probably a stretch to say they do/could dominate the better public school programs year in and year out, based on their records: Belen Jesuit Berkeley Prep Cardinal Gibbons Christopher Columbus Clearwater Central Catholic Oxbridge Academy Tampa Jesuit Trinity Christian (Jacksonville) University School (Ft Lauderdale) Very good programs, but not not consistently "very good," i.e. multiple losing seasons in the recent past: American Heritage-Delray Archbishop McCarthy Bishop Verot Chaminade Champagnat Glades Day Melbourne Central Catholic Monsignor Pace Ocala Trinity Tampa Catholic University Christian (Jacksonville) Westminster Christian (Miami)

Am not sure if Georgia does invest any more dollars in athletics than Florida. I didn't see too many fancy facilities there outside the big metro areas. In fact, not one state in the South invests in education at or above the national average. We all know Texas is a big football state. Over 50% of public school funding there comes from local property taxes. And their state senate now wants to take $1.8 billion out of the state budget and recoup that through additional property taxes. Texas already has the second highest property taxes in the country and residents there, on average, pay twice as much in Florida residents . Maybe for that reason, people there feel invested in the schools. So, the answer is easy. Just write your congressman and tell him you think we should raise property taxes in Florida to provide additional public school funding, so we can have megastadiums like Texas.

Last week in Georgia, the Class 3A state title game was decided by an extremely controversial call that has had that state buzzing. Turns out this situation is getting some national exposure and adding fuel to the debate of instant replay in high school football. On one hand, it seems a shame for our game not to evolve along with technology. Instant replay could spare officials from scrutiny like this poor ref is now experiencing. On the flip side, one has to wonder about the logistical challenges of implementing instant replay at a high school level. Pro sports have endless resources. ...high schools not so much. Are all high schools in a state going to have enough cameras, camera operators and folks to operate the software? If not, hiring people will cost money. Then there is the cost of software licensing. Maybe not a biggie for large school districts, but how about the small ones with very limited resources? Some states are struggling with referee turnover/replacement. Learning how to use the system will add to the learning curve and lengthen the onboarding process. Then there is the issue of slowing down the game and the inevitable "technical difficulties." ...hardcore college and pro football fans are probably willing to deal with that. But many spectators at high school games are high school kids, many of whom have limited attention spans and are there for reasons beyond just seeing the game. I could see a high school game really losing part of the crowd if there were long spans of no action. Apparently they tinkered with instant replay at some spring games in Alabama and interviewed one of the coaches afterward. ...his comments. “I’m not a big fan of it at this point. When you look at the college level or pros, they may have 15 or 20 angles. They can zoom in and out. With just two cameras working with a wide and tight copy and the majority of the time you got high school kids videoing, it’s going to be tough to get the great angles like you do at the next level.” As much as instant replay could help the game, it could be disastrous to implement it without thinking through all of potential pitfalls. Anyone have any thoughts or opinions? http://usatodayhss.com/2017/blown-incomplete-pass-call-peach-county

If the rationale for separating private schools is their unethical use of recruiting to give them an advantage over public schools, would public schools found guilty of unethical practices (such as using ineligible players), thus giving them an unfair advantage, also be included with the private school classes? I'd be willing to wager that a lot of recruiting and other hanky panky takes place at public schools, in football and beyond. I remember seeing kids from outside Florida showing up at Brandon high and becoming instant state champions/placers on their wrestling team. Last time I checked, Brandon wrestling has had way more historical success than any private school in the state. A while back, our school kicked a first team all state running back out of school, knowing full well it would put us at a great disadvantage coming into the season. Turns out he competed against us in the playoffs. How many public schools would have done the same? I'm sure there are some unscrupulous private schools, but I'm also confident there are plenty that hold their kids to high standards. I remember complaints about St Thomas and Chaminade recruiting as far back in the 1970's, when both programs were very successful. The first time we had a black player dress out on our historically all-white team, the public schools went nuts playing the recruiting card. It was a big joke for us because he most certainly was not recruited. I think one needs to be a bit careful when making generalizations about private schools. Many of the private schools in Florida have been around for 50 years or more. In that sense, they are very much "real" schools with very seasoned athletic programs and have paid their dues playing the public schools over the years, even when they were losing. Glades Central beat the snot out of Tampa Catholic and Chaminade in the 1971 playoffs! Claiming the present success of the old private schools is a result of recruiting is a slight to the years of hard work the coaches have put in building the programs. ..and one final point. Unlike private schools, who have a captive audience, private schools must attract their students. In that sense, "recruiting" students is very much in the blood of private schools. Their existence depends on it. Archbishop Curley in Miami just closed. Chaminade and Madonna had to merge a while back due to financial challenges. Let's be real, having a good athletic program is a great way to attract students. So, you cannot completely blame the private schools for trying to attract the best athletes they can. Sure, they can go overboard. And those few schools that do seem to be spoiling it for the rest.

I see your point and am familiar with both of those areas. Peach County is a tiny, rural county in central Georgia. You could fit 4 Peach County's in Sumter County. The entire county has a population about the same as that of Immokalee. There are some very good private schools within driving distance of Peach County who Peach County High has to compete against for athletes. They routinely play against some strong teams from the Warner Robins/Macon metro area, including Warner Robins High, who has won a mythical national championship. Colquitt County is a very rural county in southern Georgia that is somewhat geographically isolated. The total population of the county is about 1.5 times the size of Immokalee, and MUCH smaller than Sumter County. Historically, Colquitt County HS has played in a brutal region with teams like Lowndes, Valdosta and Camden County. Despite the limited talent pools and tough competition, the records of both schools over the past 10 years are always impressive. Both teams have won multiple state championships and they are ALWAYS very competitive. There are other stories like these, too. I guess the question is, "How do they do it?" and why cannot some of the Florida programs do the same? I think the answer to "how?" is...the local communities rally behind their teams, the youth programs gear the kids for success, and there are intense rivalries with other schools that bring people out to the games (unlike Florida where I think we have lost many good rivalries due to all of the changes in classifications and other politics). Drive through rural Georgia on a Friday night during football season and you will hear multiple high school football games on the radio at the same time.

I spent a fair number of years in Georgia and followed high school football there, and have a number of years of Florida experience. In all classes in Georgia, teams are assigned to regions and play a certain number of games against region opponents throughout the year. I struggle with this concept of the smaller Florida schools not playing anyone in their region and having to drum up their own competition. Has the rationalization(s) used to justify this approach given the result that was desired? ...concerning the public vs private debate, which drives some of the discussion surrounding classifications. Am really generalizing here, but I think there is more overall parity in Georgia. In my opinion, as a whole, public schools take football much more seriously than in Florida. This is especially evident to me in the more populated areas of Florida. Outside Buford, public schools in Georgia still have the upper hand over the privates that play in the larger classes. No doubt private schools in Florida have some advantages, but I think the domination by some of these privates over public schools would not be seen to the same extent if those same schools were playing in Georgia. Marist is a VERY old private school in Atlanta with an outstanding football tradition. And they can certainly "recruit." They play in 4A amongst a lot of public schools. They have only won one state title in 25 years. I don't think I would be out of line saying that Chaminade and Oxford would dominate a high percentage of public schools in Florida, even those in 7A and 8A. I can think of a LOT of public school programs in Georgia who could give them a good game, if not beat them. Over the years, I have heard some folks in Florida speak of the need to separate the privates. I've seen a number of gyrations of late to try to balance the playing field. I don't completely buy it. Despite the phenomenal talent in Florida, I have seen a LOT of very mediocre public school teams in Florida. And I sometimes wonder if the folks making these arguments are related to these teams. Here's a radical concept . How about focusing energy on getting better and getting the communities behind the teams rather than these constant maneuvers to level the playing field. And if Florida's loose transfer policy(s) are allowing "superteams" to form, fix the root of the problem. When I lived in Georgia, I was amazed at how tied into the communities the local coaches were(outreach activities) and how much support they got in the local communities. When I lived in Polk County years ago, a lot of people couldn't tell you the name of a certain school's coach, but they could tell you that if you got near their field you would get cussed out by him. ...sad. On a final note, I saw South Sumter had an abysmal season after much success over the years. And what happened to football in Tallahassee? Am sure there are a number of factors that played into this, but after living in Georgia, I can say with confidence that the local communities would be offering "lots of help" if that happened there. Makes me wonder if there are some parallels with Florida's fickle fan population. We all know life is not a fair playing field. Your only option to "win a trophy" in life is usually just to improve yourself, not to "create another classification." I say let the kids get used to it. As much as Florida's population continues to grow, we are going to be up to 10 classifications in no time if we cannot figure out others ways to things more competitive.

Thanks for the nice report. There had been talk of Chaminade playing in the Battle of the Border next year in Louisiana. If they do go, they should get tested. There was talk of Deerfield Beach and Carol City going as well. If all three went, that would be a nice showing for south Florida.

Was sharing the talent outlook for next year just for kicks. I find it ironic that some of the bigger, public schools will not play some of the small privates now. I share the following for some of the younger folks on the forum who may not have a limited historical perspective. For MANY years, some private schools "played up" and got the snot beat out of them by the bigger public schools or had tremendous odds against them to ever win a state championship. The existence of multiple, small, powerhouse private schools dominating in one season is a relatively new phenomenon. As you'll see below, except for Bolles and Aquinas, no private schools ever got past the public schools in the larger classifications for many years. 1969-1984, 4 classes, no private school won a state championship outside the lowest classification 1985-1993, 5 classes(1A-5A), below are the state titles won by private schools in classes 2A-5A 1986 2A Bolles 1990 2A Bolles 1992 4A Aquinas 1993 3A Bolles 1994-2002, 5 classes(2A-6A), below are the state titles won by private schools in classes 3A-6A 1995 4A Bolles 1997 5A Aquinas 1998 3A Bolles 1999 4A Aquinas For many years, some private schools were the doormats used to fill the schedule. Between 1980-2000, Chaminade had poor-to-average teams for the most part. I don't believe Cardinal Gibbons had a lot of success then either. For years these teams sucked it up and got beat, and now that the tables have turned, it sounds as if some of those teams who pounded them in the past are saying "no thanks." I can hear some saying, "But playing them nowadays has higher stakes with the playoff scheme." Rest assured, there were big stakes back then. There were some small, good private school teams playing in the big boy leagues whose choice to do so likely cost them a trip to the playoffs. So, some of the older private schools having success now paid their dues. If it was OK to beat up on them for 20 years, it should be OK to give them a chance to exact some revenge for a while. We usually don't get to stack the deck in our favor in adulthood, so why not let the kids learn some good life lessons-the exhilaration of winning against the odds and the pride in knowing you chose to face the strongest foe, even when things don't work out. Must be a bitter pill this year for those kids at Booker T, but bet they will look upon things with a different perspective when they get older. Bravo to that coach for taking the high road.

posted two minutes ago on Prepforce We get our wish!!! Miami Northwestern will play Chandler in the Geico Bowl Series game.

Chaminade's defense will be reloading, and should feature a lot of talented seniors. Concerning the secondary, the four named above all have D1 offers. As if that is not enough, they also have Ahmaud Jordan and James Williams, both seniors-to-be with D1 offers who could play as defensive backs. Florida commit Cameron Williams will be a beast next year at DE, and junior-to-be DT William Moise, who already has multiple D1 offers, can replace some of the beef Chaminade is losing on the D-line. On offense, Menard is ranked in the top 15 qb's in the state by qbhitlist. The O-line should be solid, with four seniors and anchored by 6'3" 320 lb Jimmy Nixon. There should be at least two others in the 300-pound or greater range. Thad Franklin, a freshman who already has D1 offers, can serve as running back. He is already listed at 6' 190 as a sophomore, so it will be a very different look compared to Shivers. He got playing time at qb this year whan Menard was injured. Chaminade has three talented sophomores at WR who all saw playing time. One is 6'3 and am guessing he will be getting a lot of attention next year from scouts. And, of course, who knows what transfers they might pick up now that they are state champs. I don't see any glaring holes next year and could definitely see them back in the state championship game with a host of D1 recruits. The biggest challenge will likely be replacing Shivers and what had to be one of the most talented receiving corps in the state.

We talk a lot about the advantages of private schools, and no doubt they have some. Excluding IMG, I believe only 12 of the top 75 programs in the latest Maxpreps Florida rankings are private schools, and 9 of those are in south Florida. If we could snap our fingers and make all of those private south Florida programs disappear, where would all of the stars on those teams go? ...my guess is that many would go to Atlantic, Dwyer, Deerfield Beach, Miramar, Carol City, Central or Northwestern. Those are already pretty stacked teams that are perennial favorites in their respective classes. So, in a funny way, the private schools in south Florida help disperse some of the talent. Without them, the big classes could end up being dominated every year by the south Florida schools. Imagine Deerfield Beach or Miramar, who already have very stout defenses, with some of the defensive players form StA or AHP on them. Or imagine one of those Miami schools with 4-stars Shaun Shivers and Xavier Williams from Chaminade adding to their offense. Either of those scenarios would be absolutely scary for the competition. Am sure there are some who wish those private school programs would disappear, but be careful what you ask for, especially if you are a 6A, 7A or 8A team.

...in case you are interested. Here are the Maxpreps ratings for Florida as of today. The Top 11 all ended up in Maxpreps' Top 100 for the US. Florida's Top 3 finished in the Top 10. Maxpreps had 12 Florida schools in their preseason Top 100. Those who made it who were not on the preseason list-Venice, Dr Phillips, St Augustine, Cardinal Gibbons and Raines. Those who made the preseason list who did not make the latest list -Booker T Washington, St Thomas Aquinas, Tampa Plant, Miami Southridge, Carol City, Trinity Christian., #SchoolOvr.RatingStr.+/- 1IMG Academy (Bradenton)8-091.469.5-- 2American Heritage (Plantation)13-075.948.9-- 3Northwestern (Miami)12-273.353.7-- 4Venice14-168.846.8+1 5Central (Miami)9-366.652.0+1 6Armwood (Seffner)14-166.344.2-2 7Chaminade-Madonna (Hollywood)11-262.243.0+3 8Dr. Phillips (Orlando)13-261.845.4+1 9St. Augustine12-161.140.4-1 10Cardinal Gibbons (Fort Lauderdale)11-259.744.9+2 11Raines (Jacksonville)13-159.128.8+16 12Cocoa11-258.338.8-5 13Wekiva (Apopka)12-258.141.6-- 14Bartram Trail (St. Johns)11-458.046.5-3 15Carol City (Miami)8-457.347.5-1 16St. Thomas Aquinas (Fort Lauderdale)10-355.839.1-- 17Plant (Tampa)12-254.535.9-- 18Oxbridge Academy (West Palm Beach)10-254.536.7-3 19Immokalee12-154.531.5-- 20Madison County (Madison)14-054.431.1-2 21Riverview (Sarasota)11-253.736.0-- 22Winter Park12-153.638.7-- 23Viera8-253.038.4-3 24Osceola (Kissimmee)10-152.735.0+1 25Miami11-252.435.4+1

Interesting historical tidbit... and am not proposing things be done this way now. You old-timers probably remember those state championships prior to 1990 when there were 4 classes and the games were held at the home field of one of the teams. Because of the way the classes were structured, the 4A championship game often involved a Miami team versus a panhandle team. Back in the early 80's, Miami teams traveled to Pensacola three times and lost every time. Imagine the home field advantage. When you traveled and won a game like that, it was an amazing accomplishment. Things are too easy now.