Jambun82
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Posts posted by Jambun82
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Yes, and I have heard and seen many antics form Robert Weiner. Most officials will let a lot of coaches behavior go, if It is not directly addressed to the official. If the cursing continues , the official might let the coach know "that is enough". That is a courtesy that most officials will give to coaches There might be other factors involved with the suspension, or it might be prior incidents with these coaches who got suspended. HOW MANY TIME DO I HAVE TO BRING THIS UP? NONE OF US KNOW THE EXACT CIRUMSTANCES OF THE SUSPENSIONS!
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Thank you very much Perspective, that was very nice of you!
10 hours ago, Perspective said:Fixed that for you Jambun.
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10 hours ago, 181pl said:
Yes, when a coach curses AT an official I agree. I've seen coaches suspended for cursing the air.
181pl, could you provide any examples of a coach being suspended for cursing the air?
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1 hour ago, 181pl said:
Another symptom that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. Bunch of pussies and pansies running the show creates chaos. Who cares if somebody curses occasionally? Especially to emphasize something gone completely awry or botched? There's a time and place. Inside of church? No. On the football field in the heat of the moment? Yes.
181pl, anytime that a coach curses at an official, that should be an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. Period, get that straight. Certain behavior is acceptable, certain behavior is unacceptable. Also, don't put me into that Bernie Sanders/Elizabeth Warren Medicare-for-All, $25 minimum wage crap. I am a registered Republican.
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1 hour ago, LakelandGator said:
1. Let me walk back my comment a little because I'm not attacking you personally.
2. I just feel there has to be more accountability for the stripes. Yeah it's only a game but so much is invested by the players, coaches, schools, fans, etc. even at the HS level.
Do you get a chance to see Polk County games? I can't imagine many crews statewide as poor as the ones in my area. They really are that bad. I wish I had an answer to this problem.
1. Thank you.
2. Yes, accountability is important, but also until the FHSAA figures out a way to pay officials a lot more then they are being paid now, this will continue to be a problem. A lot of good officials work on moving up to College Football, and once they get to that level, they usually leave High School Football behind. Once again, somebody has to officiate these games on Thursday and Friday nights, and the FHSAA has been conducting surveys for a few years now to figure out ways to recruit and retain high school officials.
3. No, I do not get a chance to see many Polk County games, and I really have no idea how good or bad the officiating is there.
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10 hours ago, Perspective said:
"Upon further review" I understand the point that both Jambun and Proseteye are making about the distinction between professional or college coaches, on the one hand, and high school coaches, on the other hand. High school coaches are, in essence, teachers on the field. That said, anyone who has ever been to a high school football game, practice, 7 on 7 tournament, college camp, etc. knows that the language can get a little rough at time. At the end of the day, I agree that high school coaches should be held to a higher standard. But, if you're going to hold them to that standard, the consequences for an F-bomb that slips out during the heat of battle need to be relaxed a little. C'mon, give those guys an f'ing break!
The consequences of cursing should be and is relaxed as long as it is NOT directed towards officials or the other team's players/coaches.
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Badbird I repeat. I WILL NOT DEFEND NFL OR COLLEGE FOOTBALL OFFICIALS. LOL
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25 minutes ago, badbird said:
If a coach was wrong I would say it. We have lots of bad coaches that aren’t in it for the kids or aren’t teaching the right lessons. Coach Pettis was wrong to curse and got himself ejected. He deserved a one game suspension. The fhsaa has suspended coaches and kids this year for 5 games for things that use to be one game and should be one game.
Officials are humans. They are going to blow calls. They are going to react in ways they shouldn’t at times. Just like coaches are going to.
Badbird, that doesn't matter to me of you would or would not criticize a coach. The fact is that I would never ask you to criticize a coach, just like I am asking you not to ask me to criticize an official's foul call. I do not know the circumstances of the foul in the Bartow-Winter Haven game and I feel that it would be unfair to comment on the specific foul and penalty.
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I will NOT defend NFL or college football officials. lol
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7 minutes ago, badbird said:
Yup you don’t owe me nothing and you have showed me what kind of official you are. Someone who holds a grudge and instead of officiating the game fairly let’s emotions play into and takes it out on the kids.
Someone asked your professional opinion but instead of stating what should have been called you pussed out.
No need to tell me anything that one called cost them the playoffs.
Badbird, I am sorry that you feel that way. I take pride in what I do, and I would never ask you to criticize another football coach's decisions. I wonder if there is ever any way that you and I can sit down man-to-man in person, and have a discussion. There are many topics that I would love to discuss with you, that I am just not comfortable talking about on this message board. I have a lot of respect for many High School Coaches in the state, and when I was in college, I wanted to become a High School Football Coach. It is obvious from your posts, that you took a lot of pride, in being the best coach that you could be, and I am sure that you cared greatly about the children in your care.
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1 hour ago, skyway said:
I hope you'll consider the possibility that NEVER being willing to acknowledge a bad call by the officials won't actually help officials gain more respect or make it a more appealing gig. It's like the mentality of so many police apologists when someone unarmed gets killed. It's one thing to want to support a group of people who are important. It's another all together to push back against any/all criticism at all times.
Skyway, I don't feel comfortable commentating about a foul called by an official on this message board. Also, I do NOT want to be compared to a police apologist. I believe that all public servants, teachers, police, politicians, government workers, anybody who collects a taxpayer-funded check is accountable, and has to answer to the public. You and I might not belong to the same political party, but you will find that I would agree with you on unarmed civilians being shot and possibly killed. I am often just appalled by these actions by police as many so called "liberals."
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4 hours ago, LakelandGator said:
On Bartow's previous possession they were at the 2 yard line and had a offensive PI called.(I can't seem to download the video for some reason). It was worse than this holding crap.
You're an obvious "Company guy" so I should not be surprised by your response, but I also think you are one of the better members on this site, and that's saying something.
You just lost some major cred with me.
https://twitter.com/CountyPolk
I am sorry that you feel that way, I happen to think that you are one of the better posters on this message board. I believe that a lot of the attacks on the Lakeland Dreadnaughts are unfair. and I enjoy your reasoned defense of the school and its great Head Coach Bill Castle. As far as being a "company guy" I didn't know that there was a company for officials lol. There are a LOT of bad High School Football officials in the state of Florida, who don't belong on the football field on a Thursday or Friday night. However, at this time. there is a huge shortage of officials statewide. Somebody has to officiate these games.
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9 hours ago, badbird said:
He's scared to say the refs blew it and made a bull shit call. Pathetic response from Jambum. He will call out coaches but not officials.
I don't recall calling out any coaches. I just commented when others criticized the FHSAA's decision to suspend certain Head Coaches.
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9 hours ago, badbird said:
yes one play in this game cost this team from making the playoffs. If they win that game they win the district and make the playoffs. Sure if they don't lose the other 3 they still have a chance to make it. Sure if they score more points in this game they don't lose however they did not so this one play cost them the district title and playoffs.
I have no idea exactly what the coach did or did not say. The coach admitted he said it was a bull shit call. Let me tell you this was a bull shit call.
How pathetic of you to come up with the excuse I don't want to comment because it's film and not live. You see the film make a decision. Call out your boys for blowing this call and costing Bartow a district title.
My boys? I don't live in Polk County. and what makes you think that I would even know these officials? I am not obligated to "make a decision" just because you think that I should. I don't answer to you, and if you believe that one foul called cost a team a playoff berth, then I don't know what to tell you. I listened to you when you claimed that you were wronged by an official, and even gave you advice how to deal with the situation. However, reading some of your posts on this message board, maybe the official was justified in what he did. I don't know for sure obviously , but you seem exactly like that kind of coach who shows no respect, abut demands it from others.
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12 hours ago, Perspective said:
Jambun, this plays reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask. If you watch the end of this play, 77 basically lies down on top of the DT. Can an offensive lineman lie on top of a defensive player (thus keeping the defensive player pinned to the ground) or is this considered to be holding (even the OL spreads his hands out to make it clear that he's not using his hands to keep the defensive player on the ground)?
For what it's worth, I had to watch this clip a couple of times to find the guy who I thought the penalty could possibly be called on. I figured it was 77. I then watched it a couple more times. I never saw the hold, but I could see how, in real time, the white hat may have thought he saw the OL pull the DT down to the ground. All in all, a really bad way to lose a game.
Perspective, that is not necessarily a foul. #77 would be told to get back to his huddle, and if there was any delay on his part, then there might be a dead-ball foul. I don't feel comfortable commenting on a foul from a video from the press box on this message board.
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10 hours ago, Proseteye said:
Where are the parents in all of this? They should be questioning why the HC and assistants are using vulgarities and intimidation at all, much less at a referee. What kind of example does a coach set with his players and with the fans in general when he uses anger to resolve differences of opinion. After all he is representing the school and not just himself. Also, in professional sports there are no young people under 18 involved. Character has already been molded positively or negatively by the time someone gets to the professional ranks. Character is supposed to be molded on a continuing basis in High Schools where solid role models are definitely required .
Great point Proseteye.
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11 hours ago, Perspective said:
A couple of points:
1. I can absolutely guarantee you this rule is not being enforced uniformly across the state (or even a given county) by the officiating crews. Which means a coach my "get away with it" for a few games, start to think that perhaps it's OK (despite what the black letter of the rule book may say), and then make the mistake of blurting out the same "B.S. call" in front of a different white hat a game later and end up with a 5-game suspension.
2. Which brings me to my next point: if the FHSAA wants to make "no cussing" a point of emphasis, they need to really do a big P.R. campaign. More importantly, however, the penalty needs to fit the crime. An excited utterance that includes one of George Carlin's seven dirty words should result in an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on the coach or player. I might even entertain the thought that the coach should be kicked out of the game (especially for a repeat offense). But a 5-game suspension goes waaaaa-ay overboard in my mind.
3. This filters down. Watch any of the miked up highlights of a pro game or a college game and hear what the coaches on the sidelines are saying -- either directly to the refs or loud enough for the refs to hear them.
4. Is there really that big of a difference in yelling out "that's a bullsh*t call!" and yelling out "Excuse me, sir, I respectfully disagree with the last call that you made?" Both are verbal forms of questioning the judgment and/or integrity of the officials, but only one of them gets you suspended for 5 games. Oh, and if you say it the second way, but you say it really loud and perhaps a little sarcastically, does that matter?
5. I am very much aware of the dire need for officials statewide. Raise their pay and thicken their skin. Handle the cussing the same way baseball umpires typically do it (and very much like the umpire in the World Series last night had to do it): recognize that you, the ref, also make mistakes and may have even just missed the call that prompted the outburst, allow for the 'heat of the moment' expletive so long as it's not directed against you or any member of your family, give the coach a warning and/or let him know when "that's enough," and keep the flag in the pocket until you're left with little or no choice but to throw it.
1. I agree, and that is a good point. I just wonder if this coach had some previous incidents, or warnings about his behavior.
2. My point about number 1 with the five game suspension. (I know Coach Pettis, and his coaching style.)
3. I agree 100%.
4, Yes that is a HUGE difference. Language and the way that a coach talks to an official is very important, and respect is a two-way street. I think that we can agree this is true in all walks of life.
5. I do not think that it is fair or appropriate to compare a Pro Sport Official/Umpire to a High School one. Professional Sports are given a lot more leeway, and that is the way that it should be. Remember this coaches are supposed to be leading and shaping young people's lives. A lot of officials will acknowledge a mistake, ( Some would never admit to a mistake), but again, there is a proper way to handle things from a high school sports perspective.
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26 minutes ago, Just A Coach said:
Jambun from what you seen on the video, would you have called holding on that specific play? If not, why? If so, why?
I will say this, I could understand why Bartow coaches, players, and fans would dislike that foul. However, I am uncomfortable commenting myself on that foul. I would prefer to be closer to the play, and not watching a video from the press box.
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1 hour ago, badbird said:
Curse at an official 5 game suspension. Make a shitty call and cost a team the playoffs you still get paid and work next week.
One play in a game cost that team making the playoffs? Not the previous eight games, or all of the other plays in the game correct? I thought in the other thread, you claimed that the coach didn't curse at the official?
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23 hours ago, Just A Coach said:
Jambun, do you have any examples of this from past games? I'm just curious.
Yes, but obviously I cannot be specific on the message board. I know of several officials have been suspended indefinitely, and ultimately left officiating for cursing at or threatening a coach.
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Officials have been held accountable for years, coaches are always "scratching" officials. Somebody has to officiate these games on Thursday and Friday nights. Do you realize how bad the shortage of officials is state wide? Officials don't tell coaches which plays to run, and coaches can ask and question rules interpretations, but not judgment calls. Any kind of cursing by a coach at an officials is completely unacceptable, and should not be tolerated. Once again, just like the Miramar coach, there might have been something previous with this coach that lead to a five-game suspension.
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4 minutes ago, badbird said:
I didn't say his actions were correct. It's an emotional sport. People say things they should not. 5 games is a joke.
An official would be suspended a lot more then five games for cursing at a coach. I guess that is not a joke correct? The FHSAA is trying to get people to get into and STAY in officiating. This is one of the many areas that is being addressed, holding coaches accountable when the act in an inappropriate manner. Just like officials have been held accountable for similar actions towards coaches and players for many years.
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6 hours ago, badbird said:
FHSAA has decided since it can't control schools anymore it can start just suspending coaches for arguing with officials. 5 games for cursing?
Here are the new FHSAA rules
1. Don't help a homeless kid out by providing him help
2. Don't curse at officials
3. Everything else is ok
Barbird, if an official cursed at a coach, that official would be suspended indefinitely. I do not understand how you can expect a 16-17 year old child to not curse and show disrespect, when an "adult" coach cannot refrain for this type of behavior.
FHSAA out of control
in The Huddle
Posted
None of us knows exactly what happened do we? That is my point. I have another question that I would hope that somebody would give and answer or a thought to. HOW CAN WE EXPECT A 16-17 YEAR OLD CHILD TO ACT IN A CIVIL AND SPORTSMANLIKE MANNER WHEN MANY "ADULT" COACHES DO NOT ACT IN A CIVIL AND SPORTSMANLIKE MANNER?