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Posts posted by BrowardHandicapper

  1. 5 hours ago, Zoe Boy said:

    Ok cool so I want to know those kids that’s not going to Dillard but going to other school like the privates , how many of them are from the Dillard area? I’m saying from what David blvd to what sunrise? Oakland Park? 

    In Between Broward and Davie by 95 is actually all Stranahan.   Contrary to popular belief (for some) , Stranahan is actually more so in STA's backyard - not Dillard like some perceive:



    If I am not mistaken Dillard's  zone was more centered around Sunrise, like Broward blvd (west of 95) to 441 (SR7), north up to 19th St and east to like Powerline:


    There is no doubt that back in the day Dillard's roster had a lot of neighborhood kids surrounding Dillard HS , but 20+ years later things have changed.  Mighty might be able to confirm this but has the vibe at Dillard shifted to more of a basketball atmosphere in terms of putting on that Panther uniform as a Dillard Panther with pride from the local kids in the neighborhood?

    I'm not saying football is still not big in those neighborhoods but it seems football seems to be of less emphasis from the community of late versus basketball?

  2. 2 minutes ago, DB4 said:

    Yall dont forget about Jackson in 5A South. I think Cardinal Gibbons will win the district but I think Jackson will give them and AHP trouble. I also think they'll make the playoffs.


    Just now, Zoe Boy said:

    I’ll co-sign this.. they pass the eye test with one of the best rb in the county .


    Winner of Jackson versus Coconut Creek might get the third playoff spot in the District.  I wouldn't sleep on Creek either.

  3. 1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

    The difference is most 7v7 in North Florida are team 7v7


    I'm not aware of any all star travel team in North Florida like that one down in SFL 

    The winter/spring 7 v 7 are private travel teams that play throughout FL and nationwide in some cases.  Summer 7 v 7 are HS teams.

  4. 2 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

    Looks like guy liked moving around a lot, played at Dunbar his sophomore year, AHP as a Jr, then Immokalee as a senior.

    But can you explain or any theory why he may move around like that from different counties/regions of FL?

  5. 20 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

    I'll start with the most high profile one recently 





    What made this against the rules?  Well if my memory serves me correctly the proof was there about communication between people at Trenton and a potential transfer through text messages 


    What's different in metros?


    Well for starters several metros in south Florida have all star 7v7 teams so they are able to communicate and indirectly recruit without it being caught by the fhsaa because communication is face to face 

    That's a advantage on metros,  easier access to players and easier to transfer

    Surely, there are no high profile 7 V 7 tourneys outside of SFL and if there were they surely would not say anything beyond "Good game" to one another.....

    In SFL they set up air conditioned  lounges with champagne rooms at the 7 v 7s so the kids have a nice environment to discuss business ;)

  6. Just now, Zoe Boy said:

    I was just about to mention that.

    These are the kind of things that somehow go unnoticed though when it works the other way around.....That and the fact that the Immokalee roster and coaches appears to be 50% Hispanic.  God forbid OldSchoolLion sees a successful team with a team photo like this:



    Again it is not supposed to work like this but welcome to 2018.

  7. 1 hour ago, Hwy17 said:

    So what rural schools are benefiting from the new rule? How many transfers are leaving metro areas like Duval to go over to Nassau? Or Lee county over to Hendry? What I see is one or two schools in bigger counties getting the majority of the transfers and the rest losing there best players. 

    Can you explain why and how  Immokalee's best player in RB Abraham Alce with multiple Power Five offers transferred from AHP to Immokalee for his Senior year?





    It sounds like they are trying to build a All-Star team out there.  How can he go to a random public school like that?

    I thought this was supposed to work the other way around.  Oh, wait a minute this is a small example of how a rural public school benefited from the new rule chage - Or is it not? 

  8. 7 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

    Wow, where do I begin?  The last thing I want to do is discuss small town politics that the rest of you would find very strange which currently face Hardee county.  Yes Hardee has a larger hispanic population and high poverty level. But there is also much wealth in the hands of a very few people.  Also the Hispanic population here is mostly Mexican and Central American as opposed to Cuban or Puerto Rican as in areas like Miami or Orlando.  Many of these families are migrant farm labor who come here in the late summer or early fall then leave in the spring. Its one reason HHS usually has the highest drop out rate in the state. Subtract the migrants and we are a class smaller than the class we play football in.  

    But back to football: This discussion became an attack on my alma mater because I dare criticize how AHP became an overnight powerhouse when before they were just another "good" program.  In my opinion they are an equivalent to an 8A program in 5A.  

    By the way BrowardHandicapper, Hardee has wins over Immokalee and Dunbar before and no where did I ever insinuate that AHP or any other SF program was holding us back. I just don't think it is right that a program get a lot of players transferring in without having to move up a class. Defeats the purpose of classification.  Also, and I have a lot of respect for Madison and Pahokee who we have never played before, but check Hardee's track record against other schools of that size and you will see we do just fine. 


    In 2009 Hardee (9-2) did indeed beat Immokalee (4-6).  In 2013 Hardee (11-2)  did beat Dunbar (5-6) as well.  I'm not aware of any other wins over those programs since the early 2000s,  but I may be wrong.

    There are few 1A schools that are of the level of Madison or Pahokee on a consistent basis in the South Region of FL so I don't know if you even would want to mention who it was.  But I am curious now..... What 1A program has Hardee have a good track record with in recent years?

  9. 8 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:


    I provided facts earlier in the post demonstrating how American Heritage (PL), Chaminade, and Cardinal Gibbons made what in my opinion were astonishing strides in performance in short periods of time.  Please share what techniques (drills, coaching, etc) they used so that others might get ideas as to how to enjoy similar success.  

    You mentioned that Ponte Vedra(St Johns County) figured it out pretty quickly and Venice(Sarasota County) took advantage.  Not to mention Bartram Trail(St Johns County).  Please look at the following chart. 


    St Johns and Sarasota Counties are two of the wealthiest counties in the state.  Only 1 county has more people living below the poverty line than Hardee.  There are relatively few thriving, ranked teams amongst the poorest of counties.  I think it more than coincidence that schools in some of the wealthiest counties in the state are "figuring things out" quicker than poor counties.

    We need to be sensitive to the fact that some kids and parents may have more to worry about than football...namely, what's for dinner tonight.  And kids in some rural counties struggling with substance abuse at very high rates.   It's not simply a matter of "trying harder" to make up for the disparities between their programs and some of the highly ranked programs.  I think it's unfair of us to assume that some programs have fallen off simply due to lack of effort on the practice field.

    It is probably a fact that "loaded" teams are here to stay.  It is a fact that Florida has one of the highest income inequalities amongst its residents of any state in the country.  And it is probably a fact that this gap will continue to widen.  

    My opinion...in the past, rural counties, through sheer grit, determination, and some excellent coaching, were able to overcome the odds and compete with places like Miami-Dade and Broward.  There was a tipping point where factors such as disappearing jobs, demographic changes and poverty caused the teeter totter to tip against their favor.  For instance, certain rural counties in FL have been overwhelmed by incoming minority populations that have taxed local resources.  St Johns has a Hispanic population of 5%.  Hardee has a Hispanic population of 43%.    

    I share information related to demographics not to offend anyone.  There are social changes taking place now in Florida that are unprecedented and I feel certain they are impacting hs football in powerful ways.  Some are not happy with our current playoff structure.  If loaded teams AND socially-related changes are here to stay, telling some to try harder is not going to change much.

    If some coaches have the luxury of fielding a team full of new transfers and think that is ethical, fine.  Those folks should compete in their own league.  I didn't use to feel this way, but educating myself about the changes that are taking place in Florida outside our little world of hs football has made me change my tune.  If something doesn't change the way we match up teams in classes, playoffs, etc,  I predict we will have even greater mismatches on the playing field in the future.







    In the link, I  see some some very poor counties that are successful (Glades) and some wealthier counties that struggle (Monroe).  I cannot conclude much from this.  To me their are great teams from rich areas and their are great teams from poor areas.  I'm not just talking FL but nationwide.  There are also piss-poor inner-city teams and very strong rural teams.  I think you can make a argument for it any way you wish with data...I just don't have the energy to start breaking football down by demographics and race.  Again, I'm not denying your theory.

    I also question the accuracy of this chart.  Seeing Wakulla and Broward "wealthier" then Palm Beach County raised my eyebrows.

    I'm not going to get into the demographics or races and am not questioning your theory on that...I'm just not going to comment or get into it on this site. 

    As to the comment on transfers, ethics etc...you have a opinion and other people have an opinion.  You both may believe you are right and can argue it both ways.  All that matters though is what the FHSAA states in the present.  The rest is only opinions and respectfully speaking-  irrelevant to what the present state is.

  10. 8 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

    I don't doubt that smaller schools can a do beat larger schools. Hell, Hardee even plays and wins over larger schools. That doesn't mean we should have to do it every week.  And yes we have even beat teams that have won a state title in years we got knocked out of the playoffs. Example: 2004 over Fort Meade.  

    Yes I get out and see Lakeland and Braden River on occasion.  

    Hardee vs Dunbar game last year. Half time score was 17-7 Hardee leading. Midway through the 3rd I said to my son next to me, Dunbar is going to win. They are bringing an outside blitz and our coaches are not picking up on it.

    If you are referred to 4a Cocoa being able to put a pounding on Baker county, you are probably right. But then again Cocoa is like AHP, a stacked team hanging out in a smaller class. 

    Hardee would do fine against Madison or Pahokee.

    Seriously??? You just said "Hardee would do fine against Madison or Pahokee."?

    Okay.  I'll let you win this one.

  11. 12 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

    It is a problem 


    It shows the overall decline of North Florida 

    Glad someone can admit that.  Stacked teams in SFL are not going away.  Sometimes if something is not working you have to try something else.  Ponte Vedra seemed to figured it out quickly.  Venice took advantage of a opportunity in 2017. ...

  12. 29 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

    Nice pivot after blatantly attacking the school I support because of my opposing point of view.

    #1: The conversation from last year had to do with the rise of south Fl teams; i.e. AHP, STA and a couple of others as if its always been.

    #2. Winter Haven is a 7a school, so shouldn't they have more talent than Hardee?

    #3.  Why is Hardee struggling winning in the playoffs?  I think it has to do with coaching more than anything. Last two years they were ahead at half-time only to blow a lead.

    #4. Baker county deserved to play for a championship because they defeated the others in their half of the state.

    #5. What I have a problem with is a stacked team, the equivalent of an 8A school winning the 5a title every year.

    5A is a mid-sized school class. 

    Okay..Fine game on.  Your call.  


    1.  I'm not denying that topic but I am surprised by the details that you state...I know AHP has not been a super power for long and I know STA has great teams in the past but not the run they have had in recent years.

    2. LOL ..What does that mean? So what if WH  are a 7A school.  Do you want to see what some 1, 2, and 3A schools would do to Hardee? There are plenty of 1,2,3, and 4A schools that can show Hardee how to take care of business with teams like Dunbar ..LOL

    3. Yeah, Okay...appreciate the answer but as much as OldSchoolLion has convinced you.  "Coaching" is likely not the jist of the reason Hardee is struggling in the post-season.

    4. Sure.. A true representative what a 5A in Florida High School football should look like.  Glad to see you have high standards for FL HS football.

    5. There are plenty of 1,2,3 and 4A schools out there that could have won 5A States last year over BC.  There were also plenty of 4-5 5A schools capable of upsetting AHP.  The 5A team that faced AHP at states is not one of them .  Not sure how much you get away from Highway 17 and Hardee but consider getting out more.  Take a trip to Fort Myers, Sarasota, Tampa, Orlando or even Trez Powell if you get the opportunity.   A stacked team is not the only reason BC lost that game.  It surely had nothing to do with overall team speed, right?

    "5A is a mid-sized school class. " That is somewhat correct.  Considering there are 8 classifications, "5" is slightly above the mid point of 4 and you have a mid/mid upper class.  How about we send Madison County and Pahokee out to Hardee to teach you a thing or two about classification size and talent.




  13. 14 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

    Baker County was just the best team in a overall weak region of the state but they were never going to beat AHP 


    They didn't have the speed to matchup with them 

    But that is not a problem when a 5A rep shows up at a State Championship looking like that, right?

    It appears others would prefer to find an issue with the team performing well and blame that for the reason for that blow out. 

  14. 3 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

    Actually you did in a similar discussion as this one about a year ago. You said to me "Haven't Dade-Broward always been dominant going back?" To which I replied, "I remember when small towns like Frostproof, Live Oak, Bartow, and Lake Butler were the top programs".

    And why do you feel the need to start attacking the school I support? I have never blamed anyone for holding them back.  In fact they over-achieve if you ask me. Is it because I am critical of the open transfer policies that are now in place which allow certain programs in metro areas to hoard all the talent and while remaing in a smaller classification? 

     Answer me this: If its not uncommon for Miami area schools to have a lot of FBS prospects on as you mentioned earlier, why are there any bad teams in Dade county? I believe it was last year a mediocre Winter Haven team played and beat a team team from Dade, down there. And we all know Winter Haven, although good, isn't loaded with top prospects.

    I'm not denying that conversation we had but I was probably referencing that Broward and Dade was stacked with players and had several good teams but perhaps not as many as the last few years.

    Winter Haven crushed Killian in a pre-season game in 2016.  That is what I remember off the top of my head.  Not sure how many times they have played SFL teams of late but Winter Haven is Winter Haven and Hardee is Hardee.  I think in recent year we both would agree that Winter Haven is not only a better team then Hardee but generally is more talented overall?

    Immokallee is another team that traditionally is not heavily loaded that is very good.  I'm not denying these teams can't compete and sometimes upset powers.  So I ask you if teams like Immokallee which is a 5A rural like Hardee can compete with the top teams sometimes, why can't Hardee of late???

    Why can't Hardee even advance in the playoffs?  

    Do you think Baker County was a fit team to play for a 5A State Championship in the State of Florida?

    You have a problem with teams hoarding "all" the top players but a team like Baker County playing for a State Championship in FLORIDA 5A is justified?  Really?


    There are bad teams in Dade and Broward County.  I'm not denying that.  My argument is simply a team like Hardee is not being held back by stacked teams.    I'm not attacking the school that you support.  I'm stating facts and clarifying that the reason Hardee cannot be successful has nothing to do with certain programs in metro areas "hoarding all " the talent.  If teams are hoarding all of the talent they why are there 10-20 teams with 20+ total rostered players with FBS offers annually?

    5A is not necessarily a "small" classification.  Last I checked there were teams just as (or more so)  stacked in 1A, 2A, 3A and 4A as 5A.

  15. 1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

    Byron Walker is one of the winningest coaches in the history of Florida and won multiple state titles as a coach at Glades Day.  He won 2 state titles as a player at Glades Central.  He coached at AH Plantation for 19 years and showed he had what it took to lead AHP to a title game in 1998.  I would think if he lost his touch and kids did not want to play for him any more, he would not have been a coach there for so long.      

    Great resume but I don't know what's going on over in Southwest Ranches with Byron Walker and Archbishop McCarthy but the last two years kids have been leaving there in droves.  Any idea why?

  16. 8 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

    The new transfer rules actually will help the state


    It helps rural schools because guess what


    Metros like Jacksonville, Tampa, Orlando, Miami all have loose zones and players can switch schools easily


    Rural areas could not get transfers easily under old rules

    But let's blame state powers and especially the Broward and Dade powers.  If all of this stopped tomorrow the state would feel the wrath and fire of Hardee football who is tired of being held back by this rule.  Sometimes I feel this rule was actually created to hold teams like Hardee back from getting too strong.

  17. 47 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

    What strong established sports tradition? OldschoolLion and myself already pointed out that pre-2013 AHP was just another "good" program. 5a, again this class was 3a, was made up of mostly mid-sized public schools and was a highly competitive class with no single dominant program.  

    In fact, study your record books as OldschoolLion does. This notion that Dade & Broward have always produced the top teams is a myth. 

    I never stated this.   That was conversation that you two were at with ColumbiaHighFan reading your "Three Yards and a Cloud of Dust " playbooks while watching Rudy.....Admit it, your just sorry that a team named Dunbar ruined your season last year and sour a team named Lemon Bay is on Hardee's heals every year.  I know....It's the world against Hardee, right.  There all out to get Hardee and the reason for Hardee's failures totally has to do with the Broward and Dade powers.  They are what is holding the Hardee program back.


    Please just tell me why SFL or any stacked teams statewide are holding Hardee back right now.  How are those teams or the new rules  relative to the reason Hardee cannot get to Orlando or win in the playoffs?



  18. Here is some food for thought and this is just referencing "elite" recruits. Not all FBS.  Again, is it really a shocked scenario with rosters of 20+ D1 players on the same team?



    How come loaded teams like Jones and Armwood are never referenced?

    DFB traditionally gets way more transfers then private powers like AHP and STA.  We'll leave that one alone though...

    Those teams were  stacked just like SFL powers with MORE transfers.  If I am not mistaken Jones had over 30 transfers last year. 

    Not a problem when they don't dominate, right?  All of a sudden when a team becomes a "gorilla" though it is a problem, right?

    Surely no one has  an agenda against stacked teams, success and dominance. :D 

    Well a team can dominate as long as they do it by YOUR standards, right?

  19. 1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:


    ends justifies the means, whatever it takes as long as you get success...great lesson for the kiddies.  the issue is not one of results, but "how?"

    HWY17 asked 2 questions...So how does that much talent end up concentrated onto one team?  And in such a short time period?

    you say Hardee is struggling.  Hardee is 7-4 and 8-3 in the past 2 season.  I don't consider that struggling.

    ..throw a human in a cage with a pissed off gorilla and I guess the gorilla will make anyone look like they are struggling




    Thank's for your opinion.  Fortunately, for the student-athletes and their families sake your sarcastic and condescending opinion does not dictate FHSAA rules and regulations.

    As to how that much talent ends up on one team.  Do you even live in SFL???

    I don't know they roll in Hardee but here is SFL for ya...

    1. At the present time anywhere in FL , the last I checked any student can transfer anywhere providing the have their own transportation. 

    2.  Private schools never had school zones.

    3.  Previous to current FHSAA transfer rules,  students had options to attend multiple schools based on overcrowding of zones etc....

    4.  Many student athletes families RENT in Broward and Dade, come from broken families etc...It is not your job nor the FHSAA's to dictate how these families live their private family lives.  For example: A family is allowed to move out of a 7 month, annual or even BREAK a lease if they choose to.  Again - not our business.

    5.  Magnet and charter schools allow students to attend schools of their academic interest is well.

    6. Anyone that has attended youth football in many parts of Broward and Dade and cannot comprehend that they are looking at potentially 10-20 kids per team (or weight class in some cases!)  may have FBS potential in 3-5 years is either naive or a moron.  Considering the fact in many cases , many live in a specific area of Broward or Dade it should not be some shock that many attend the same public school or go off to a private school.   Take the NW Dade or SW Broward area, go watch the youth leagues where many kids are live zoned for Miramar, Carol City, MNW etc....Are you still not getting it and can't fathom how so many land at the same public schools?

    Most private schools that have a strong established sports tradition nationwide are generally able to be successful.  Now factor in the huge population and level of football and it should be no shock of loaded private school rosters.  Duh!



    Who is the "gorilla" in this case AHP?  Again, did AHP ever stop Hardee from being successful?

    Last I checked they were getting blasted by Dunbar37-17.

    If AHP is a "pissed of gorilla" , there are lots of pissed off gorillas out there...I guess Immokalee was also a pissed off gorilla last year as well when they almost beat AHP in their own cage.

  20. 2 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

    Not only that OldSchoolLion; Mr. Steve Berry was the moderator over on the rivals board.  He did an article on AHP right before the Hardee -AHP  3-rd round playoff game.  In that article he stated that AHP had more than 20 players that either had received or being recruited with FBS offers and also a roster of more than 80 players.  At the time, the top public schools in 5A were Hardee, South Sumter, Lake Wales, and Clay. We all had rosters between 40-50 players and between 3-6 players on our teams being recruited to play FBS college football.  So how does that much talent end up concentrated onto one team?  And in such a short time period?

    Shame on success , I guess.

    Om another note, the reason Hardee is struggling is not relevant to stacked teams like AHP.  

    Are teams “scooping “  up all the Hardee talent in that Region the last few years?





    @ Hardee 


    20+ players with FBS players on a team from top teams in Broward, Dade and sometimes Palm Beach County is not out of the ordinary of late. Considering Broward and Dade are 1, 2 nationwide by County at producing  Power 5 talent these players have to go to some school in the county. 

    Seniors ALONE , you are looking at about 150 D1 players annually between Broward and Dade. Again, that is only the Seniors on teams. So if you do the math there are going to be stacked teams. Do suggest socialized rosters? Where all Broward and Dade rosters would have at least 7 but no more then 10 FBS players per roster?


  22. 56 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

    5A, and going back to the old 3A, was a great class for mid-sized public schools.  Look at the state championship match-ups prior to 2013.  So what happened that made AHP he super-power in this class?


    There were probably 4-5 teams in 5 A capable of beating AHP last year.  All in the South Region.

  23. 34 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

    5A, and going back to the old 3A, was a great class for mid-sized public schools.  Look at the state championship match-ups prior to 2013.  So what happened that made AHP he super-power in this class?


    Part of it is they got better players in. They are a private school. 

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