Hwy17
-
Posts
1,499 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
48
Posts posted by Hwy17
-
-
Per a release from Bergen Catholic, they have announced they will be hosting Tampa Catholic for Week 3.
RELEASE: http://www.bergencatholic.org/ftpimages/678/download/download_1540431.pdf
I would rather see Tampa Jesuit to play Bergen.
-
Gatorman: Basically that was what it was before in 1999-2000. Twelve districts per class; three per region and two wildcard spots. I suppose the only disagreement is if runner-ups should automatically qualify or not. A lot of this would be solved by going to twelve districts; the complaint I can hear coming will be travel costs but I say you can't make everyone happy so get over it.
I've never had an issue with an outright district champ in the playoffs regardless of record. Its runner-ups that get in with a losing record that bothers me, even when my own team got in the playoffs with a 3-7 record. District Runner-ups have been automatic qualifiers since 1992. But back then we only had 5 classes and districts had 7-9 teams in them.
I don't know that I would use a weighting system on past performance to move teams up or down. I believe classification was created for a reason but given the current state of things with transfers and school choice (recruiting), the purpose of classification has been compromised. In a previous post I recommended putting a limit on roster size per class to curb the number of transfers.
-
I like the concept but hate the details.
Gatorman - the problem with the current system is 3 team districts where a 1-9 team can get in the playoffs just by winning one game. The second problem is district vs district playoff pairing and sometimes that leads to one side of the bracket being stacked.
Cory - I agree, way too complicated. The old system for one, districts were much larger, and the points was only used as a tie breaker when teams had the same number of wins. Points were awarded as 1 point for each win your opponents had, regardless of class. For example, two teams had 7-3 records and only one playoff spot left, if the two had not played each other during the season, points was used to see who got the last spot. Also it was # of wins, regardless of teams played. If one team was 7-2 and the other was 7-3, then the 7-3 team would not count points from its the team on its schedule with the fewest wins.
Game cancellations - Sometimes games just can't be made up. We start the football season in August which is still part of the hurricane season. Across the state early season games are often postponed or cancelled due to lightning and bad thunderstorms then can't get made up because we have district games coming up.
-
Good move for Coach Tate!
-
He was turning Mulberry around the last time he was there and had gotten Auburndale turned around. Good move for Mulberry.
-
columbia in the 90s would be a example of those "90s teams winning for hometown" we were the SMALLEST team in the 6A in 1997, it was supposed to be IMPOSSIBLE for us to compete with the "big boys" we go 14-1 and came 3 points from beating the nations number 1 team, and really we had a touchdown taken from the officals so we should have won that game, so yeah, and on the topic of the FHSAA, idk if its their fault or not but they should be removed, we didnt need them in the old days, we dont need them now, if theirs a issue that every school is complaining bout, then they can intervene, but we dont need them looking for issues, they like the ncaa, they worry about picky nonsense because they bored of their "real" job
Small town football was killed by the FHSAA. Before the Mid-2000's it was small towns that were the dominate teams in Florida: Live Oak Suwanee, Union County/Lake Butler, Frostproof, Avon Park, Bartow, Starke, Jefferson County, Eustis, Pahokee, Belle Glade, ....all now a thing of the past.
-
I agree that legislature getting involved is going to do more harm than good, no matter how well the intention.
I have some issues with FHSAA, namely that it has become a bureaucracy that is more concerned with making money to pay high salaries than serving the members who created it. The FHSAA likes to point out that is has been named and recognized in Florida Statute as the governing board for high school athletics, ignoring the historical fact that it was created voluntarily by a small group of public schools. That said, public school districts are local government, just as a city or a county and therefore are granted home-rule powers by the state constitution. Among those powers are to enter into agreements and contracts with whomever they want. So by using their home rule powers, the public school districts could do away with FHSAA if they wanted.
Now back to topic: Here's how I would handle the transfers: Require transfers to be enrolled at the school a minimum 6 months prior to the start of the sport the student wishes to compete in. In addition, for football, limit the number of players a school can have on its roster by classification. Class 4A and under limit to 45, Class 5a/6a limit to 60. Class 7a/8a limit to 70.
The idea I'm using here comes from (1) NCAA which limits the number of scholarships a program can have by division, and (2) a school starts getting a bunch of transfers all of a sudden, somebody is going to get cut. Better enroll soon and hope you are as good as you think.
My own personal observation: This year Jesuit (5a) and Bishop Moore (5a) both had 80+ players on their roster yet I can't find a public 5a team with that many players, in fact most seem to have about 50 or so. I also remember how in 2006 Lakeland won the state title and was getting last minute transfers right up to the start of the season. In 2011, Armwood had the same thing and I think we all remember the drama surrounding that.
-
HWY17,
That is my point, I don't want to reward OR punish teams for their out of district games. Your out of district games are designed to meet numerous needs: gate, rivalries, travel, level of competition, etc. Not every team schedules those games for the same reason and as a result teams end up unbalanced schedules in terms of difficulty. There is nothing wrong with that, but that is something teams have little control over. But if your rival is a state caliber team than why continue to play that game if a loss is going to push you out of the playoffs. Bad teams happen, good teams happen, but rewarding teams for something they can't control seems silly.
I would continue to suggest that shrinking the # of classes is an easier and more consistent solution than having a committee of some sort decide if a runner-up team earns a spot.
Gatorman - Back in 2000 when there was 2 wildcard spots my team (Hardee) went 7-3 but was kept out of the playoffs by the point system because we were tied with Lake Gibson who was also 7-3. We had lost an early season game so we were 3rd place even though we had a better win/loss record than the team that was runner-up (Bayshore) in our district. The other district sent 4 teams to the playoffs. Lake Gibson got the tie-breaker because they played a slightly tougher schedule. I had no complaints with this system and still think its fair. Fast forward to what Cory has proposed and apply to the same situation and maybe we would have gotten in instead of the runner-up? Back then there were only 3 districts so the districts were larger and it allowed for 2 wildcards. Cory's proposal would allow for 4 wildcards so I can't answer for sure how it would have played out. But seeing what Cory has above, it looks like an improvement to me.
-
gatorman:
While we can't think of every possible situation, like Cory pointed out above, typically we're only talking about teams on the bubble anyhow. And why should the 8-2 team be punished for playing that rival that they play every year and they just happen to go 0-10 this year? Sometimes schedules aren't designed to be weak, it just turns out that way. Example: Fort Meade plays Frostproof every year and often times its a tough game for the district, but this year Frostproof was down. Should Fort Meade, who went 8-1 not be in the playoffs because Frostproof was down this year? Fort Meade didn't schedule a "cupcake" to have an easy schedule, they played someone they have played every year for 50+ years.
-
Playing Cupcakes vs Playing a tough schedule:
We all of course have to play the mandatory district games, and I believe we all agree that district champs automatically get in. Geography plays a lot into district assignments. This is why we sometimes have 3 team districts. But outside of district play, most schools' non-district schedules are against another area school or rivalry games. You play who you play because you play them every year. So the schedule wasn't a cupcake schedule by design, your cross-town, cross-county opponent just happens to suck. Which gets back to how the wildcard system worked before: Champs got in, then the remaining teams got in based off w/l record but points were used to break a tie.
-
Cory - I agree for the most part. I think a lot of great ideas have been expressed on the board and what your proposing here reflects what has been said by most. Losing teams shouldn't get in the playoffs just because they are district runner-up. Districts need more than 3 teams, and/or for 4 wildcard spots in the playoffs. Playoff Brackets should be seeded from 1-8, not district vs district.
My question is, how can we get these ideals in front of the FHSAA committee that will be making the decision?
-
Or in a three team district only the district champion should be allowed in the playoffs.
Agree!
My biggest issue is teams making the playoffs with losing records just because they come in 2nd place in their district. The wildcard system of old used the point system as a tie-breaker. Wildcards were determined first by overall w/l record, followed by head-to-head match up if applicable, then by points. Points were awarded as 1 point for each win each of your opponents had, class didn't matter. However, back then, district runner-ups still got in and yes, some got in with losing records. I'd say bring it back but with 4 district champs and 4 wildcards, then select wildcards by overall w/l record and use a point system to determine a tie-breaker like before. Also the point system could be used for seeding purposes. The goal should be the best 8 teams per region get in.
For those who don't get how the FHSAA determines classification, this is how its done (in a nutshell). The population of all schools are collected and then a list is created in descending order from most enrollment to least. Then, the list is divided by 6 (not 8) to create equal number of schools in each class. The small classes are then split in half because of the large spread between the largest and smallest schools in those respective classes and only after a lot of protest. It was during last re-class year that rural and urban and public-private were separated. Starting in the panhandle and working clockwise, schools are placed in districts; with the goal of having as many schools in the north, regions 1 & 2 as in the south, regions 3 and 4.
The state has experienced uneven growth. This has caused such a large spread between the largest and smallest school in each class and has been a real problem for the smallest of classes. For this reason I think an standard number, like 500, should be used as the cut-off in separating classes. That might mean some classes have more schools, but its something I think would work better.
-
Donut Badger Who's your school you rep.
Hwy17 Who you'r school you rep.
I'm from Hardee county.
-
If memory serves me right, in the late 90's/early 2000's when there was a wildcard system, there was only 3 districts per region with champs & runner-ups automatically in and 2 wildcards per region. So the districts were larger.
-
i think their was serval 7-3 teams that missed the playoffs this year, but a 1-9 eastside team made the playoffs, thats a problem, that should not happen, that part of system needs to be fixed
Three team districts are just wrong. Defeats why runner-ups were allowed to be in the playoffs in the first place. Should be 4 team minimum in a district; 5 or would be better. Never thought teams with losing records deserve to be in the playoffs; even my own when we got in.
-
Thinking back to early 90's when FHSAA changed the rule to allow district runner-ups in the playoffs, the state only had 5 classes and districts had 6-9 teams in them. Prior to that, it wasn't uncommon for 9-1 teams to be kept out of the playoffs because only district champs got in. My 10th grade year (1989) my school was in a 9 team district and we had a 4-way tiebreaker to determine the champ.
-
There isn't a problem with them leaving, in fact it is causing a solution. They are in fact creating their own private division. The problem is that they allow those schools to be independent in football but participate for state titles in everything else. The solution is simple if they want to go independent fine, but they are independent in EVERY sport. There are zero repercussions for making the move right now. You tell them that if they go independent they are out of the FHSAA in every sport for a minimum of 5 years. Why cave to the 75 schools who can barely participate in a sport. Make them adhere to your policies, don't bend to include them. Probably half of those schools have no business having a football team anyway, not at any competitive level anyway.
I disagree because it takes a lot more to field a football program than it does a baseball, basketball or any other sport.
-
I like most of it and think its a move in the right direction. Like you said, its not a perfect solution, however some of those items proposed have been around before. I like the idea of 4 district champs and 4 wildcards and we had something similar to this in the early 2000s. I don't think its right when a 3 team district has a 1-9 team as runner-up automatically getting in the playoffs while a good 7-3 team in a 6 team district sits out. I think a district should have 4 teams minimum. Looking at some regions, I don't understand why some small and large districts are back-to-back.
Playoff pairings and brackets: I don't like the system of district vs district in the early rounds. I get it that its done for travel, but I've seen one-sided brackets were a 10-0 team plays an 9-1 or 8-2 team in the first round while in the other side of the bracket has a 5-5 team playing that 1-9 team referenced above, so what happens is the 3rd round match-up is a joke.
Point system for strength-of-schedule: First off, I think points should be awarded for how many games your opponent won, followed by a factor for class; fraction of a point. As proposed, no class 8a team will want to play down. Likewise, If i was in a small class, I'm scheduling a weak team from a large class because its easy points, why would I play a power from another small class?
Again, I like most of it but some of the details I feel deserve needed debate.
-
More power to them!
-
Here's how I'd do it:
1a - Public schools - 0-500
2a - Private Schools - 0-500
3a - Private Schools - 501-1000
4a - Public Schools - 501 - 1000
5a - Public Schools - 1001 - 1500
6a - Public Schools - 1501 - 2000
7a - Public Schools - 2001 - 2500
8a - Public/Private - 2500 and over Public Schools and Privates over 1000
This would take the few private schools currently in 5a-8a and put them in the largest classification. In my opinion, they would have no problem competing there. Secondly, it takes the few private schools in 4a down to what is currently 3a. Class 2a is mostly private anyhow.
Independents and Conferences: By voluntary election; let them form a bowl game or playoff system and govern themselves. Regular season non-district games between public and private schools or between independent and playoff eligible teams is fine.
IMG - remain independent, but I'm not so sure they would have advanced past the 3rd round in class 5a-8a this year anyhow.
-
There is a photo of the 1909 Wauchula football team which was made in Arcadia. But it appears that over the next several years it was hard to field a team. I have seen reference to a 1917 game. The two counties split in 1921 and the rivalry dates back to then although I can't find a score for either the 1921 or 1922 games. Officially Wauchula High School didn't begin football until 1923, so games before then were club league or something like that.
-
How long did it take you to compile that? You don't know how lucky you are to have access to records that far back. I attempted to do the same for Hardee, going back to 1909. I used old year books and newspapers as my sources. Spent about 3 months going to the local library 2 days a week and hours on microfilm researching and only could get 1930 to present (2007). Anything prior to 1930 was hit and miss. I documented some games in the 1920's but very few. One thing I found interesting was that in the 1930's, Hardee vs Winter Haven was more of a rivalry than Hardee vs DeSoto
! -
Lakeland has a booster club that raises money for them so they can travel, also they pay good for other teams to come to them. The other Polk county schools aren't so lucky. Miami Columbus came to Winter Haven this year for a kickoff classic. But yes, others can come to them. Hillsborough schools have a centralized AD so the schools are limited on who they can and can't schedule.
-
@Hwy17 So Plant and Armwood never went out of state.
I went and looked at their schedules. Plant went to Georgia this year. Armwood played AHD last year but the game was in Armwood. Perhaps Hillsborough county has let up on its restriction on travel but its been their policy for years not to allow public schools to go out of county unless its a district game or a playoff game. Polk county has a similar rule, but will allow travel to a neighboring county only. The school boards cite budget restraints as the reason. Did Plant get help from the Georgia school with travel or their booster club do a fundraiser to get the Hillsborough SB do make an exception?
Hardee Job Opening
in The Huddle
Posted
Just heard the head coach resigned