DarterBlue2
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Posts posted by DarterBlue2
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3 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:
Hard for me to get into my thick skull that Apopka is part of Orlando. I spent time in Apopka as a kid MANY years ago and there was nothing there. That is imprinted on my brain, like Apopka is a distinct locale. I know the high school has been around for a long time, but I don't remember hearing too much about football there before 2000.
Apopka had good area teams between the mid 1980's and 1994 during the Chip Gierke years as head coach. However, aside from losing a semifinal to Manatee in 1993, never made a big playoff run. After Darlington took over in 1999, the program has consistently been among the best in the greater Orlando area.
Before Orlando became a major urban area, Apopka was an isolated, small town. However, as Orlando has expanded, it now an extension of Orlando. Apopka is an interesting area. It has aspects of a small town, a suburb of a large city, and also has what you would characterize as inner city portions to it.
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20 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:
None of the larger schools in Orlando are represented on the list. Other than running into the south Florida powerhouses in the playoffs, any reason why?
Apopka should be represented as they have 3 championships. Regarding the Orlando public schools, for the most part, till the 2000's Orlando large school football was not very good. Yes, Evans won half a title in 1991 and made it to another semi final. And Winter Park did make two semis in the 1980's and Oviedo made one. But, overall, Orlando area public school football was not good.
Since 2000, the Orlando area has been well represented in the title game. Unfortunately, in the earlier part of the 2000's the area teams ran into the North Dade urban schools in the finals (Northwestern, Central, Carol City, Norland), and had a hard time beating them. (Edgewater lost three in a row from 2002 to 2004.) From 2012 on the Orlando area has won 3 of 6, 8A finals. So, with the better North Dade teams playing in 6A, Orlando has held its own.
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18 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:
None of the Jacksonville public schools are on the list. Does their talent get diluted by the private school powerhouses there? Other reasons why they have had limited success?
Regarding Jacksonville public schools, I think it's a combination of the good privates taking talent and, also, coaching. It is interesting to note that St. John's County, which is a southern suburb of Jacksonville, has done better with their public schools than Duval over the last 20 years.
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A slight correction. Apopka has won three state titles: 2001 vs Northwestern, 2012 vs Cypress Bay and 2014 vs Columbus.
So one Orlando area big school should be on your list above.
- OldSchoolLion and Sharkbait
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14 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:
When Bolles won the 2A state title in 2002, they went down to play Chaminade in south Florida during the regular season and lost in a game that came down to a 2-point conversion at the end. The two teams met again in the state finals, which Bolles won 6-0. For a while(maybe still), it was the only state championship game in which no touchdown was scored. Future pro bowler Jon Beason played in those games.
I think the regular season game actually added some intrigue to the state finals, ie chance for revenge. Am sure Coach Rogers knew there was a good chance they would meet in the finals, so it was a gutsy move to schedule the regular season game.
I remember that final. Did not see it live but watched the replay. Great defensive struggle between two very, very good teams.
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Let's hope it's something good!
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3 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:
Am sure there are good reasons, but am curious why Vero has to play in Virginia or drive 3 hours across the state when it has potential opponents that are much closer. Anyone know? Would think games against Atlantic and Deerfield would be especially interesting since they could be a potential opponent in an 8A state final, assuming Vero ever got there.
I am no VB insider, but I would guess in the case of the teams an hour or more to the South, they don't want to play against a potential State Championship opponent during the regular season. Regarding the teams an hour north, last season they did play a solid Viera team albeit in the KOC. And for all but those in the know, Rockledge was an unknown factor going into last season since it had been awhile since they were good.
However, for the upcoming reason you are right. They could schedule some of the better Brevard teams without fear of giving anything away in a future matchup. I won't knock them for scheduling Venice, though; after all they are a defending state champion.
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29 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:
What it all comes down to is, "What is the best path for a certain kid, recognizing his short-term and long-term needs?" For many of these kids, a big driver for going to college is to "make it big" and go to the pros. But we all know that is like playing the lottery, with very poor odds. Universities probably rationalize that, "Well, the kid did not make the pros, but we gave him a free college degree." That is great if the kid knows what to do with it. The college degree path is a long-term investment for most kids, but many of these kids and their families have short-term needs.
It varies from kid to kid. There are two I am familiar with that I will comment on. One went to Michigan the other U. Mass. Both came very close to NFL careers but in the end were done in by size in the case of the former, and just a little lack of speed in the case of the latter. Both did graduate from college, though, one with a General Studies degree and the other with a degree in Architectural Drawing.
One of these kids was a 7th round draft pick. The other was an un-drafted free agent who got picked up on a couple practice squads along the way. The former, as a draftee, got the NFL minimum wage for one year.. The latter earned about $100,000 k over two years on NFL practice squads. One today lives in Arizona which is a long way from home. Neither of these kids came from advantageous economic circumstances. Both kept their noses clean over four years of college. Of the two one had struggled mightily in high school; the other did not have issues graduating. Both found a way to graduate from college.
In the case of both these guys, although neither made it big in the NFL, I can't in all honesty say that their time in college was wasted. In another time or place, it may not have been the best option. However, in the times in which they came of age, I think college was a net benefit to both despite never fully realizing their professional career dreams. I do feel that each was enriched to a degree by the path they took.
At the end of the day, it is up to each individual to maximize the opportunities presented them. While they are challenges, even if you don't make your ultimate goal, it does not mean that the college experience was totally not worth it. Many kids do build some relationships outside of the football squad that can serve them well post graduation. A lot depends on the individual and the efforts he makes to get outside of his comfort zone.
But again, having said all the above, I do agree with you that our current system, if not broken beyond repair, needs a lot of fixing to be best for society as a whole in addition to the individual athletes.
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Yes, I don't disagree. Degrees are not what they used to be. But how many kids from the projects are going to end up pursuing a career in plumbing or some other "old blue collar job?" I would suggest not many, and if I am wrong I stand corrected.
The fact of the matter is that these days kids born on the wrong side of the tracks, black white or other don't stand a very good chance of succeeding in today's economy, period. Things have changed technologically, politically and socially. Spending 4 years in college to get a General Studies degree may be just enough to keep that kid from pursuing a "career" in something on the wrong side of the law that screws his life up forever or ends it early.
Sometimes a little maturity from the passage of time and a somewhat different environment outside the projects can get one over a rough hump. With that said, I think we are both in general agreement that the way the sports/college/professional complex currently works is probably not the best for society in general.
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2 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:
I thought about that. Just posted something about scholarships. After reading it, maybe you'll see why I hesitated to go there, since many kids will never get a degree and some studies show that a high percentage of those that do get "useless" degrees. In other words, the return on investment of those football scholarships is sketchy.
I read that post. And, yes, there is a lot of truth to that. But, in the case of Basketball, the numbers related to college graduation may be distorted since you can bail for the NBA after a year or two. I would guess that because of this, a lower percentage of NBA athletes have degrees than NFL athletes. Also, few degrees are totally useless, though some are much better than others. A kid that did not make the NFL cut but graduated, even with a degree in General Studies, is probably still better off than one without a degree. For one, he can probably end up as a coach/teacher back in his hometown, especially if he was well though of from his playing days.
The above is probably not the most efficient or effective way for society or the individual to get into the job market post athletics. But it does beat some of the alternatives.
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I have argued for a long time that Colleges should not serve as the farm teams for the major professional leagues. The USA is the only major country where this is so. Far better for society as a whole, if as in baseball, that the kids get drafted out of high school and play in a so called "minor league." Those kids that are both academically and athletically inclined can still be offered scholarships to college if that is their desire.
Of course this will probably never happen. Far too much money in big time college football and basketball. And, why would the professional leagues want to pick up the costs of further developing the talent while losing money in the sponsorship of a minor league team?
But from a societal standpoint, having the ultimate beneficiary of this talent pay the cost makes far more sense. Also, in doing so, coming out of high school, kids would have a far more realistic idea of whether they will ever make the big leagues. For those that don't get drafted for the minors could move on with their lives 2 to 5 years earlier and either get a degree or find another means of supporting themselves in adulthood. And those that do would have a pretty good idea 2 to 3 years in the minors whether they were making the development necessary to play in the "big leagues." Either that, or they would get cut and be able to move on with their lives sooner.
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1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:
The Highland Park school district in Texas has one high school - Highland Park High School, a perennial state contender in football with an enrollment of about 2000. In 2011, they spent an average of $8785/student on education and $3325/football player. Take the $400,000 they spent on football that year and redistribute it amongst their 2000 students, and that allows for an extra $200 for each student toward education.
In 2015, 14 players from the Dallas area were drafted into the NFL. If that number is typical, we could say Dallas area schools are investing $10.2 million dollars/year (probably more now because the numbers above are old) so that 14 individuals can "make it." Think about it, they could give 1020 Dallas area seniors a $10,000 scholarship each year with that money.
If we look at football as an investment, and high school football's main contribution is "building character and teaching teamwork," are there cheaper investments to accomplish the same?
I am NOT arguing against high school football. I share this simply to show how football "outsiders" might look at the game from a dollars-and-cents standpoint and ask, "Is high school football really a good investment in today's world of limited school resources?" I found one article in which a man felt participating in a school music program could build character and teach teamwork, for less money and without the risk of injuring its participants.
I guess we could argue that football is hands-down the best activity to build character. Are we in a good position to do so when there are frequent cases of NFL and NCAA players getting in trouble with the law broadcast on the news? When was the last time you heard of a Florida orchestra musician getting arrested for domestic violence?
1. Maybe it would be fairer to asses the cost in relation to the number of kids from the area that got full rides in college. This is particularly relevant since you refer to providing $10,000 college scholarships as a benchmark by which to evaluate the cost.
2. I totally agree that this is is huge cost to expect the community as a whole to bear. This is especially true when you figure that a number of these kids never return or invest/spend much in their home communities. In most other parts of the world, beyond high school, athletes are developed in pro/semi-pro leagues which pay a salary; not in college.
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5 minutes ago, Sharkbait said:
I think it has more to do with nutrition. In 1985 Armwood had an O-line that averaged 250 pounds and that was huge compared to most high schools then. My son played this year at 285 and is obviously not "skinny" but is very fit. I look at the numbers these kids are hitting in the weight room and it is baffling.
I don't question that many of these kids are not incredibly fit. However, I just don't think that the human frame was meant to walk around weighing close to or more than 300. You can do that for awhile; but in the long run (and I mean middle age), it typically comes back to bite you.
Now if you are 6ft 6ins, or taller, I am not referring to you. I am referring to the average Lineman in High School who is maybe 6 ' 4" or less and ends up being in that weight category.
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I remember in 2006 seeing Edgewater High have four offensive linemen above 300 and a fifth in the 290s. I thought back to the mid 1980s when William "refrigerator" Perry was considered an aberration in the NFL and thinking what happened?
In the 1980s and early 1990s, it was not unusual to see High School Offensive Linemen between 200 and 250 or less and Defensive Linemen from 180 to 220. Those days seem gone forever; at least among the competitive teams. The increase in size has almost certainly contributed to the number of serious injuries on the playing field in addition to being terribly unhealthy for these athletes as they get older.
I gotta wonder where this will all end.
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1 hour ago, BrowardHandicapper said:
And then you have teams like Deerfield Beach that get way more transfers then any of the teams listed, who are traditional first and second round type teams.
If they had the right staff, they would probably win a number of state titles given their success in the talent wars.
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53 minutes ago, Zoe Boy said:
Well this young grasshopper turns 34 today!!!!
Happy Birthday, man! Seems like yesterday I was once 34! In truth it was a long time ago going all the way back to GHWB years!
- Zoe Boy and Dan in Daytona
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6 minutes ago, dawgs said:
bishop moore? in east central florida?
Yes, it should have been included if 10 year data was used. Another Maxpreps's omission.
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A timely, insightful post.
One of the reasons why poor schools don't perform well in the all sports category in Florida is the fact many sports are either totally neglected or the kids don't turn out in the poorer schools. Thus, to take soccer as an example, while Oak Ridge and Evans in the Orlando area have a natural demographic (a lot of immigrants from Latin America and the Caribbean who play the sport at a high level), they have not fully lived up to their potential. Or in the case of baseball, African American kids don't participate in the sport much anymore due to dwindling participation in Little League. I am not sure whether it is funding at the school level or shifts in the wider society. To play soccer at a high level in the USA, participation in the "club circuit" is essential. Or with baseball, if you did not play little league, then trying to pick the sport up in high school unless the school has an exceptional staff is probably too late.
At the end of the day, it is probably America's loss and helps explain why despite over 300 million people, many with a natural affinity for soccer, we will never field a men's team that poses a serious threat to win the World Cup or even an Olympic medal in the sport.
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They are playing surprisingly good football. Hope they win at least one playoff game. It's time for a Florida based team to be relevant again.
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9 hours ago, badbird said:
they could do it in the state title games when most are on TV and have lots of angles but other than that no.
I agree. For regular season and playoff games excluding the championships, the costs would exceed the benefits and in some instances implementation issues would be currently insurmountable.
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18 hours ago, SportsNut25 said:
Only two games and both should be good ones so let's just go ahead and pick both of them. Thread will lock at 1p ET on Dec. 23. Please only use this thread to submit your picks.
Bingham (UT) vs. St. Frances (MD)
Chandler (AZ) vs. Northwestern (FL)Bold picks
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Not to be a grammar policeman, but you should correct the spelling in the topic.
Good habits stay with you; bad ones do, too.
- SportsNut25, peezy28 and Cat_Scratch
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20 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:
I am assuming that this is some kind of joke at my expense. I hope that you had a good laugh. lol
I am sure it was.
- DisabledAccount and peezy28
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UCF Beats Auburn
in The Huddle
Posted
The odd thing is, they have two kids from Nebraska. Very far away and not exactly a hotbed for High School football. Would Frost have had anything to do with that?
They have a few kids from Cali, too.