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KeemD321

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Posts posted by KeemD321

  10. Cocoa Appeal Officially Denied

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

    While we understand that an outcome can not be reversed- and this is sound policy IMO- what can happen is the game can not be tabulated in playoffs ratings. For playoff ratings purposes, make it a "no contest".

    I agree as well. That's truly the main reason I feel they tried to appeal. The night it happened they said they wouldn't appeal because they knew the outcome. But if this game does go towards seeding then Cocoa unfortunately would be on the road for the regional final and semifinal. Which in turn would have them missing out on gate revenue and being put in the hole for travel and more. When they would in theory if they win out in the regular season would be hosting those games.

  11. Cocoa Appeal Officially Denied

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:

    Given the nature of the rule which has been sited herein, the result could not be overturned. However, their officials association has acknowledged that bad calls that were results changing occurred in the final 88 seconds and have apparently suspended the crew. 

    The above is a step in the right direction. Hopefully, it will discourage such bad officiating in the future. I do believe that the current rule should be change to allow, under egregious circumstances, an appeal that could overturn an obviously bad outcome. 

    Ultimately it brought light to a situation that occurs too often and now sets a precedent that there could be repercussions holding people accountable.

  16. Cocoa Appeal Officially Denied

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Airek said:

    1)  Clock operator does not act independently, only with direction from on-field officials.  They're looking for exactly what you described, the 'stop clock' signal or 'wind clock' symbol.

    2) For a dead ball, the white hat signals the restart of the clock.  They'll do this as part of the ready for play signal or when appropriate.

    3) I think most clips skipped the signal, but either way, it would be a 15-yard dead ball penalty.  Not an automatic first down or enough yardage for a first down.  I have a feeling there was a communication breakdown with the down marker, but nothing 'wrong' there.

    4) See above.  Remember the chain gang are home team volunteers and could have been getting conflicting info from a variety of sources.  It is officials job to ensure it is correct.

    5) 100% the clock should have been running.  In the Cocoa/STA game, if you look on that second down play, the referee signals ready for play, but never continues the action to start the clock.  That was VERY wrong.  Clock should have been started before the ready for play actually.  If you don't do that, then every defense will just go headhunting for a penalty.  The normal you'll see is signaling the penalty and then winding the clock right then, followed by shortly after giving the 'ready for play' signal which starts the play clock.  They gave an advantage and incentive to the defense to get a penalty, which paid off with an undeserved victory.  It is 100% officials job to ensure this DOESN'T happen and they didn't.  When I've seen similar in nearly same situations, ref wound the clock after announcing penalty, which hurt defense further, as it should, because otherwise you encourage dangerous, penalty-seeking play.

    6) Never trust anything on the scoreboard besides the clock.  Everything else on the scoreboard is optional to put in, and often is done by a home-team volunteer, a.k.a. unofficial.  When you want to know timeouts, ask the official, they will tell you.  I can guarantee someone on Cocoa sideline looked at scoreboard, but I can also guarantee you someone asked the official.  Either way, the timeout shouldn't have mattered and was factored into the kneel-down decision.

    Also, the 12 men on the field... STA lined up with 14, one ran off quickly, the 13th was possibly off, but real close and I doubt there's a definitive view of on/off out there, but the 12... GOOD LORD.  They did the whole play with 12, not one running off and close but literally 12 on the field.  You can watch the replay of that and Cocoa HC twitter shot to see it clear as day.  That's illegal participation, which while it wouldn't have been a first down, it would have been a replay of 4th with a winding clock, therefore Cocoa win.

     

    In the end, where this really comes into play is the final rankings and what seeding Cocoa gets in the playoffs.  Will they miss a home playoff game or two because of this?  That's money for the program/school, prestige, community, etc. that they could miss out on when they earned the win.  No matter what FHSAA says, Cocoa won that fair & square and should be counted as having the win.  At the end of the season, we may revisit this depending on seeding.  I hope Cocoa isn't hurt by this and it just motivates them further.

    More than likely if bradford and south Sumter goes undefeated again Cocoa will end up 2nd or 3rd again in the playoff rankings like last season and will have to travel for the regional final and semifinals again

  19. Cocoa Appeal Officially Denied

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    5 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

    They are probably related. The QB trainer you reference graduated high school in 2009 or 2010. He initially played at Boone but transferred to Oak Ridge his senior year to be assured he would be the starter. 

    He's definitely training the top QBs in Central and North Florida. Even trains UCF QB

  20. Cocoa Appeal Officially Denied

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    5 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

    From the video, it was not clear to me that there was a hold by Venice on their passing TD that was called back. However, @Cat_Scratch2, whom I have respect for, and who was at the game, said he saw one. 

    Aside from the above, I really did not feel that the calls by the officials were overly one sided. I have certainly seen far more repeated questionable calls over the years. I close by stating that this was a close game between two evenly matched teams that on another night could have gone the other way. 

    I was very impressed with Hart, the sophomore QB as this is his first year starting. For although Lake Mary's QB is probably a bit ahead of him as a passer, the Lake Mary kid began starting after LM's second game last season. Given they made it to the third round of the playoffs he had more than a full season under his belt coming into this year. 

    They both go to the same QB trainer. Same one who trained Blake Boda. Also believe his son is the QB for Bartram Trail or their atleast related.

  21. Cocoa Appeal Officially Denied

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    21 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

    Further, 10.3.2 Protesting Actions of Contest Officials.  The decisions of contest officials shall be final and not subject to review.  Member schools should file reports with the Executive Director of unsatisfactory performance by contest officials which may be due to alleged lack of knowledge of the rules, errors in judgment or improper conduct. (good luck with that!)

    Exactly why I don't see anything coming from it other than more training at the most.

  23. Cocoa Appeal Officially Denied

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    58 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

    First, I think under the circumstances, Cocoa is doing the correct thing. Now with regards to success in their appeal, I think the chances of getting the result overturned are slim: about the same as a poor person winning his/her appeal when relying on an attorney working on behalf of the indigent. 

    With that said, I think the fact Cocoa had the guts to appeal will probably result in crews more being inclined to abstain from making decisions that are clearly over the top in the future. Most individuals don't like to be exposed to the light of day when engaged in wrongdoing. 

    Good luck to the Cocoa program. I hope I am wrong and they win. 

    With regards to Venice trolling them, holding calls are always controversial. I have not seen video of the Cocoa vs Venice game. So, I am not in a position to opine as to whether Venice was being called excessively or not. But failure to run the clock seems a cut and dry situation to me. 

    Yea. I feel either way the outcome would put a little more pressure for associations to make sure they have certain officials designated for more marquee games and a mix of tenured and new officials in games as well.

    As far as the Venice game I believe I posted it. If not I can post if you want to watch. It was a good game.

  24. Cocoa Appeal Officially Denied

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    34 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

    The only way this game would be overturned is if there is definitive proof that someone at the stadium was intentionally trying to cheat them. Actual proof. A whistleblower. Some evidence of a fix. There has to be something tangible. No other way to make a decision. Even though we all know they were cheated based on the clock situation, you can’t assume they would have been able to successfully kneel the ball 3 times without fumbling somehow. Now I know 99.9999999999 percent of the time there is no way to fumble on the kneel, but the FHSAA will point to that 0.0000000000001 percent and say they can’t overturn it 

    Exactly the reason why I doubt anything would really be done about it. I think the main reason Cocoa changed their mind to appeal is due to the fact that there's a lot of traction behind the whole situation now.

  25. Cocoa Appeal Officially Denied

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    49 minutes ago, Jullian said:

    As the FHSAA has appeared to have failed in a few areas of leadership (recruiting, is there a stadium for the finals yet?), this would b an incredible opportunity to restore some much needed respect for this organization. If the allegations are CLEAR & unanimously agreed on, how could you not award the victory to Cocoa? At WORST it could b called a no contest, where Cocoa retains its unbeaten season. How far do u probe the individual referees? How often to they work Aquinas games, etc…? Very important, I think, not to attribute this alleged wrong doing to the players or coaches of STA. Don’t slur the school who peeps love to hate. What team wouldn’t take advantage of an opportunity given, to win the game????

    Cocoa HC already came out and said they weren't blaming any of STA coaches or players. Solely putting responsibility on the refs and clock operator

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