OldSchoolLion

...in theory, I completely agree. The "problem" is that we have nationally-ranked, private school teams in south FL playing multiple games against teams that are ridiculously outclassed. If those are the only teams in south FL they can get to play them, maybe they need to look "outside" for more competitive games. ...or how about playing themselves? For whatever reason, certain teams have not played each other past 3 seasons, ie Chaminade vs St Thomas, St Thomas vs Cardinal Gibbons, AHP vs St Thomas Aquinas. And none of those Broward teams have played Columbus the past 3 seasons.

Below are some of the better teams in the state. They are in no particular order other than geography and alphabetical. Listed after each are all of their non-district games that I can find. District games against "tough" opponents are noted in parentheses. I have bolded the games against stronger teams(this is subjective). IMO, it is a toss-up between Northwestern, Central and Carol City for the toughest schedule. I don't think any other teams come close to them. Recognizing their brutal district schedules, they could have taken the easy way out by scheduling some powder puffs...but no way. Even without their district games, they would have some of the toughest schedules in the state. Opinions anyone??? NORTH FL Bartram Trail- Apopka, St Augustine, Cocoa, Clay, Nease, Brunswick(GA) Columbia- Bolles, Trinity Christian, Madison County, Suwanee, Gainesville, Lee, Fletcher, Buchholz Raines- Lee, White, Fletcher, Mandarin, Sandalwood, Oakleaf, LIncoln, Ribault St Augustine- Baker County, Ponte Vedra, Bartram Trail, Menendez, Palatka, Palm Coast CENTRAL FL Apopka- Lakeland, Bartram Trail, Dr Phillips, Mandarin, Ocoee, Boone, Oak Ridge (Wekiva-district) Armwood- Tampa Bay Tech, Plant, Jefferson, Plant City, Durant (Hillsborough-district) Cocoa- Bartram Trail, Viera, Rockledge, Glades Central, Palm Bay, Treasure Coast, Jensen Beach, Bradford Dr Phillips- Apopka, Wekiva, Mainland, Lee County(GA), W Orange, Timber Creek Osceola- Viera, Lake Gibson, Jesuit, Lake Brantley, St Cloud, Winter Haven Plant- Armwood, Hillsborough, Robinson, Newsome Venice- Champagnat, Vero Beach, Riverview, Charlotte, Manatee Viera- Cocoa, Osceola, Rockledge, Fort Dorchester(SC), Merritt Island, Heritage, Palm Bay Wekiva- N Gwinnett(GA), Jones, Winter Park, Dr Phillips, Lake Nona, Olympia, University (Apopka-district) SOUTH FL American Heritage Plantation- Carol City, St Joseph(NJ), Miramar, Chaminade-Madonna Cardinal Gibbons- Miami Central, Milton(GA), Dillard, Douglas, McArthur (American Heritage Plantation -district) Carol City- Columbus, American Heritage Plantation, Southridge, Booker T Washington, American, Dr Krop (Northwestern, Central, Norland-District) Chaminade-Madonna- Deerfield Beach, Muscle Shoals(AL), AH Plantation, University, Booker T Washington, Piper, Northeast, Doral Academy, Flanagan Central- St John's(DC), St Thomas Aquinas, Cardinal Gibbons, Booker T Washington, Edison, Ely (CarolCity, Northwestern, Norland-District) Columbus- Lake Gibson, Northwestern, Carol City, Booker T Washington, Mater Academy, Belen Jesuit, (Coral Gables-District) Deerfield Beach- Chaminade-Madonna, Buford(GA), St Thomas Aquinas, Westlake(GA), Stranahan Dwyer- Park Vista, Atlantic, Glades Central, PB Gardens, Wellington Northwestern- Miramar, Columbus, South Dade, Booker T Washington, IMG, Jackson (Carol City, Central, Norland-district) St Thomas Aquinas- Dematha(MD), Miami Central, Deerfield Beach, Miramar, Flanagan, Piper, Stranahan, Boyd Anderson Southridge- Carol City, Booker T Washington, Rockledge, Dr Krop American, N Miami (S Dade-district)

One could argue that Miami-Dade schools don't need to seek out such opponents because of tough district schedules and an ample supply of tough, non-district opponents within the county. I can appreciate that. Concerning the Broward County private schools, would really like to see them play more than one such game per year unless they are going to start regularly playing themselves. When Chaminade-Madonna was coached by Mark Guandolo in the early 2000's, he routinely traveled to play teams from central and northern FL during the regular season(Vero Beach, Mainland, Riverview, Venice, Manatee, Bolles). American Heritage Plantation played an intriguing schedule in 2014...Dwyer, Mainland, Apopka, Bolles, Kathleen. In the past 3 years, AHP has played 6 out-of-state teams. They have played a total of 5-non district games against Florida teams outside Broward County during the past 3 years. In non-district matchups this year: Cardinal Gibbons is playing Dillard, Douglas, and McArthur Chaminade-Madonna is playing Piper, Northeast, Doral Academy, and Flanagan. St Thomas Aquinas is playing Flanagan, Piper, Stranahan, and Boyd Anderson How excited is a Chaminade-Madonna student/fan going to get this season seeing C-M play Northeast, Piper and Doral at home? Let's not forget, most kids can't drive and may be limited to going to home games. I do not mean to imply that these teams are intentionally scheduling weak games. I don't know all the circumstances. What I will say is that I am afraid we are going to continue to lose public interest in the sport if people are staying home watching their team on ESPN and/or routinely seeing running clocks.

Below are 21 intriguing matchups this season between teams from different FL counties. IMO, teams from Central FL are leading the way in terms of aggressively scheduling tough opponents from outside their immediate areas. North FL vs Central FL Matchups Bartram Trail vs Apopka Bartram Trail vs Cocoa Bolles vs Rockledge Bradford vs Cocoa Intercounty Matchups in Central FL Cocoa vs Mainland Dr Phillips vs Mainland Apopka vs Lakeland Osceola vs Viera Osceola vs Lake Gibson Osceola vs Jesuit Venice vs Vero Beach South FL vs Central FL Matchups Cocoa vs Pahokee Cocoa vs Glades Central Venice vs Champagnat Venice vs Charlotte Rockledge vs Miami Southridge Lake Gibson vs Columbus Intercounty Matchups in South FL Central vs Cardinal Gibbons Central vs St Thomas Aquinas Carol City vs AH Plantation Booker T Washington vs Chaminade-Madonna

The 21-0 loss at Piper in 1996 was a shocker, too. They were 8-2 that year, but got knocked out in the first round of the playoffs...while Aquinas made it to the state finals.

Beating a legendary program like St Thomas Aquinas is a big deal no matter where you do it. Imagine being the team to give St Thomas Aquinas its worst loss ever at Brian Piccolo Stadium in Fort Lauderdale...a place where the Raiders rarely lose. This team did it. Who is it? a. Cardinal Gibbons b. Key West c. Deerfield Beach d. Miami Edison e. Miramar

All of the following were regular season games STA played against FL teams from outside Dade/Broward/Palm Beach over the past 50 years. STA won games except those noted with an asterisk. Their only loss on the road was a 16-12 loss to Okeechobee in 1974. Bartow 1983(A) Clewiston 72(H) Cocoa Beach 73(A) - tie game Coral Shores 72(A), 74(A) and 75(H) Ft Pierce Central 01(A), 02(H) Frostproof 73(A) STA won 7-0 Immokalee 77(A) Key West 75(H), 76(A), *77(H), 78(A), *79(H), 80(A), 84(A) Melbourne CC 70(H) Naples *82(H), 83(A), 84(A) Okeechobee *74(A), *75(H) Pt St Lucie 01(H), 02(A)

This is the challenge I see with implementing in football the newly proposed system for other sports, ie put the top 64(?) teams in one division. Imagine the system was already in place and Doral was in the top division based on their recent performance. If they were, they would already be struggling to compete against the top-flight teams. And after the team falling apart as it has, they would likely get blown out and look like they didn't belong in the top division anymore. Things are just too fluid. One day a team is competitive, the next they are set back, potentially for years. And it could happen to almost anyone except for the dynasty teams like STA and Northwestern.

That's good history and thank you. I could not remember if BTW was nationally ranked when they played. And it makes complete sense that when STA scheduled them they expected to be playing the best Miami-Dade had to offer. One thing is for sure, regardless of where either team ends up in the rankings..Central and STA are wonderful programs and to my knowledge this is the first time they will ever meet in their long histories. Even if both teams imploded this year, it should be a good show, and that's all fans can ask for.

In terms of consistency, I think St Thomas is the best overall hs football program the state has ever seen. That said, it gets boring seeing them beat the same Broward teams to a pulp year after year. Look at the records above. Their district games against Ft Lauderdale and Ely this year will likely be running clocks. For non-district foes, they are playing Piper and Flanagan, both of whom were 1-9 last season. Stranahan and Boyd Anderson may not fare much better. Those 6 teams above are a combined 9wins-70losses versus STA. It would not surprise me if all of them were running clock games. I like the fact STA routinely plays Deerfield Beach and Miramar. Even though STA has gotten the best of them, there have been some great games. For years STA played Cardinal Gibbons(40+ times), but for some reason those games stopped in 2011. It's a shame, because Cardinal Gibbons has really come in to its own. And STA has not faced Chaminade since 1981. Although I like the idea of "local games," the stats above show that the Broward public schools cannot normally hang with STA. For that reason, it would be nice to see more games against the better teams from Miami-Dade/Palm Beach or even outside south Floirda. Oddly, since 1984, STA has only played regular season games against 2 Florida teams from outside Dade/Broward/Palm Beach...Port St Lucie and Ft Pierce Central, each in 2001 and 2002. None of those were very good teams. In the 1970's and early 1980's, STA routinely played teams from outside their area during the regular season(Coral Shores, Key West, Naples, Immokalee, Clewiston, Okeechobee, Frostproof, Cocoa Beach, Bartow). Except for the Frostproof team, those were not particularly good teams when they played STA, but it did make life a little more interesting.

For what it's worth....Lee County is a rural area and does not have the population to reload year-in and year-out. A number of teams in the southern part of the state were like that, ie Coffee County or Tift County. They will have a strong team one year and the next will just be "OK." That said, football is religion in southern GA and count on them being very scrappy. They are light years from the talent in north Atlanta and sometimes even struggle with the Warner Robins/Macon schools. When they have played the better schools, they have gotten spanked. Even with a young team, I can see Dr P taking it to them, and hope they do.

I'm sure Dan in Daytona could comment on the quality of the 2004 and 2006 Mainland teams that Lakeland beat in the state semis each year, not to mention an undefeated Hillsborough team Lakeland beat in 2004. Those Lakeland teams were absolutely nasty.

My point for mentioning that those teams were former state champions was simply to demonstrate that they are quality programs capable of being very good, not to imply that they were the best Miami-Dade had to offer at the time. I would like to see some team schedules from other teams in central or north FL during that time frame(2004-2007) that clearly demonstrate how Lakeland's non-district schedule was inferior in terms of competitiveness. I've already stated their schedule was no barnburner, but I do not think there were many teams at that time in central or north FL who were doing much better.

Below is an example from 3A in south Florida. There were 4 total classifications in 1981. Current classification of each school is in parentheses after school name. Today Ely, Ft Lauderdale and STA are in a 3-team district in 7A. My how things have changed! One thing is for sure...scheduling was a lot simpler back then. You basically played local teams and might have one game against a team from outside the county. There were greater disparities in school populations than today...and I don't recall hearing nearly as much bitching about the topic. FYI-STA was 8-0 against the others that year, but 3 teams got within a TD of them. Chaminade was a small, all-boys school and was a doormat. They lost to STA 71-7, yet they still "played up." Today we talk about having systems to force certain teams to move up...sad. Cardinal Gibbons(5A) Chaminade(3A) Ely(7A) Fort Lauderdale(7A) Hallandale(5A) Northeast(6A) Pompano Beach(5A) Stranahan(5A) St Thomas Aquinas(7A)

Broward County School Records Versus St Thomas Aquinas 1966-2018 Broward Public Schools vs STA 56 wins - 291 losses (16% winning percentage) All Broward Schools vs STA 68 wins - 337 losses (17% winning percentage) American Heritage Plantation 0-1 Boyd Anderson 1-7 Cardinal Gibbons 6-36 Chaminade 6-4 Coconut Creek 0-7 Cooper City 2-8 Coral Springs 0-3 Cypress Bay 0-6 Deerfield Beach 12-16 Dillard 8-20 Douglas 2-4 Ely 5-21 Everglades 0-1 Flanagan 0-5 Fort Lauderdale 0-12 Hallandale 2-10 Hollywood Hills 5-16 McArthur 2-16 Miramar 8-17 Northeast 0-12 Nova 1-18 Pine Crest 0-3 Piper 1-12 Plantation 4-11 Pompano Beach 0-2 South Broward 1-20 South Plantation 0-16 Stranahan 2-13 Taravella 0-4 West Broward 0-1 Western 0-13

In 2007, 5A state champion STA played non-district games against South Plantation(5-6), Ely(6-5), Cardinal Gibbons(6-5) and Everglades(3-7). That same year, Lakeland played South Dade(8-5), Killian(4-6) and Boyd Anderson(9-2). ....bizarre that a central Florida team arguably played a tougher south FL non-district schedule than a south FL team.

Of the 42 games above, one could argue that only the 7 below were against "strong" Miami-Dade teams. However, none of the teams below was likely the best Miami-Dade had to offer at the time. This year's game versus Central may be the first time ever that nationally-ranked STA and Miami-Dade squads meet! Homestead 1982(loss), 1983(win), 1984(loss) Edison 2003(loss) Columbus 2012(win) Booker T Washington 2015(win) and 2016(loss)

St Thomas Aquinas vs Miami-Dade County 1968-2018 37 wins-6 losses Note: regular season game unless noted otherwise Monsignor Pace never made the playoffs between 1974-1981. Archbishop Curley made the playoffs once between 1974 and 1980 1974 Win Monsignor Pace 7-0 1974 Loss Archbishop Curley 12-0 1975 Win Monsignor Pace 27-7 1975 Win Archbishop Curley 21-14 1976 Win Monsignor Pace 14-0 1976 Win Archbishop Curley 25-8 1977 Win Monsignor Pace 21-0 1977 Win Archbishop Curley 28-7 1978 Win Monsignor Pace 61-8 1978 Win Archbishop Curley 40-14 1978 Win Sunset 67-14 1979 Win Edison 34-16 (Edison did not make playoffs) 1979 Win Monsignor Pace 39-0 (Sunset did not make playoffs) 1979 Win Archbishop Curley 24-7 1980 Win Monsignor Pace 55-6 1980 Win Archbishop Curley 45-13 1980 Win Edison 55-6 (playoff) 1981 Monsignor Pace 35-7 1981 Win South Dade 34-0 (playoff) 1982 Loss Homestead 32-28 (playoff-Homestead later lost in 3A state semis) 1983 Win Homestead 16-8 (Homestead lost first round of 3A playoffs to STA) 1983 Win Homestead 10-7 (OT) (playoff) 1984 Loss Homestead 40-13 (playoff-Homestead later lost in 3A state semis) 1986 Win Homestead 29-14 (playoff) 1994 Win South Dade 42-21 (playoff) 1995 Loss South Dade 24-0 (playoff-South Dade later lost in 5A second round) 1996 Win South Dade 10-0 (playoff) 1997 Win South Dade 13-0 (playoff) 2001 Win Booker T Washington 13-6 (BTW lost first round in 4A playoffs) 2002 Win Booker T Washington 24-8 (BTW lost second round of 4A playoffs) 2003 Loss Edison 32-13 (playoff-Edison later lost 41-0 in 5A state semi's) 2004 Win Edison 21-19 (playoff) 2011 Win American 58-14 (playoff) 2012 Win Columbus 38-28 (Columbus lost in 8A state semis and was 9-5; Columbus lost to NW, Central and KIllian) 2013 Win Northwestern 38-3 (NW did not make playoffs and was 4-5) 2013 Win Miami Springs 56-0 (playoff) 2014 Win Mater Academy 57-0 (playoff) 2015 Win Booker T Washington 35-3 (BTW won 4A title and was 9-5; lost to Central, Northwestern, Jackson and Columbus) 2015 Win Mater Academy 60-7 (playoff) 2016 Loss Booker T Washington 27-23 (BTW later lost in 4A state semis and was 9-4; lost to Jackson, Central and Northwestern) 2016 Win Mater Academy 50-10 (playoff) 2017 Win S Miami 56-0 (playoff) 2017 Win Doral Academy 48-6 (playoff)

STA has had only one losing season in the past 50 years (4-6 in 1989). Amazing! Over the past 50 years, Deerfield Beach has more wins against STA than any other team (12 wins). Over the past 50 years, Lakeland is the only team outside of Broward County to beat St Thomas Aquinas more than 3 times (1996, 1998, 2004, 2005, 2006). And Key West is the only team from outside of Broward County to beat STA twice during the regular season (1977 and 1979). Over the past 50 years, Chaminade is the only team from Broward County that has won more games than they have lost against STA (6 wins-4 losses). Turns out they also gave STA its worst defeat, a 53-7 victory in 1968. The last time these two teams played was in 1981, with STA returning the favor in a 71-7 win over Chaminade. Over the past 50 years, STA is 24-7 versus Palm Beach County teams. 5 teams from Palm Beach County have beaten STA during this time frame: Boca Raton, Dwyer, Glades Central, Lake Worth, Suncoast. Glades Central and Dwyer are the only teams to beat STA twice. All of those victories came in playoff games (GC 1979 and 1980, Dwyer 2011 and 2013). Over the past 50 years, STA is 14-4 versus Miami-Dade teams in playoff games. Over the past 50 years, 5 teams from Miami-Dade have beaten STA: Archbishop Curley, Booker T Washington, Edison, Homestead, South Dade. Homestead is the only team to beat STA twice, both times in playoff games in 1982 and 1984. Over the past 50 years, STA has played 6 public schools from Miami-Dade during the regular season (Sunset-1978, Edison-1979, Homestead-1983, Columbus-2012, Northwestern-2013, Booker T Washington-2001, 2002, 2015, 2016. The following past state champions from Miami-Dade have never played STA in a regular season or playoff game: Carol City, Central, Killian, Southridge. Since 2008, STA has played more out-of-state teams than teams from Palm Beach and Miami-Dade counties combined. STA has played 13 OOS teams since 2008. They have played 2 Palm Beach teams and 8 Miami-Dade teams during that same time frame(these stats include regular season and playoff games).

Concerning Lakeland...they have played 8 public schools from Miami-Dade in a total of 15 regular season games since 2004. Sure they have played some weak teams, ie Hialeah and Dr Krop. But they have also played each of the past Miami-Dade state championship teams twice....Carol City, Norland, South Dade, Killian. They played both South Dade and Killian in 2007 and 2008. St Thomas Aquinas has played a total of 6 Miami-Dade public schools during the regular season in the past 50 years. What team outside Miami-Dade can say they have even come close to playing as many Miami-Dade teams as Lakeland?...even teams much closer than Lakeland.

I think one of them bought the $333 in plywood and screws for the carpentry club he was sponsoring

1. During the past 50 years, St Thomas Aquinas has played _____ different Miami-Dade public schools during the regular season? a. 5 b. 10 c. 15 d. 20

Good points, Columbia. You could have some regular season schedules in the Panhandle back in the 1980's that were fantastic, and today would be yawners. Likewise, if folks today saw some of the schedules in south Florida 30+ years ago, they might find them incredibly boring. This was St Thomas Aquinas' schedule in 1987. Double asterisk = district games. Game 01 AL Thursday September 10, 1987 Stranahan Dragons(Fort Lauderdale) Loss 0 9 Game 02 A1 Friday September 18, 1987 McArthur Mustangs(Hollywood) Win 14 12 Game 03 A2 Friday September 25, 1987 Western Wildcats(Davie) Win 24 15 Game 04 A3 Thursday October 01, 1987 South Broward Bulldogs(Hollywood) Win 14 6 Game 05 HB Friday October 09, 1987 Deerfield Beach Bucks Loss 28 31 **Game 06 HB D Friday October 16, 1987 Nova Titans(Davie) Win 21 7 Game 07 HB Friday October 23, 1987 Ely Tigers(Pompano Beach) Loss 19 20 **Game 08 A1 D Friday October 30, 1987 Fort Lauderdale Flying L's Win 17 7 **Game 09 AL D Thursday November 12, 1987 Dillard Panthers(Fort Lauderdale) Loss 7 22 Game 10 HB Friday November 20, 1987 Cardinal Gibbons Redskins(Ft. Lauderdale) Win 43 7

You are absolutely correct, Columbia. Polk County was arguably as good as it got in central FL in the mid 2000's, with Bartow, Lakeland, Lake Gibson, Kathleen, Winter Haven and Fort Meade all fielding good-to-excellent teams. Armwood and Plant were just coming around at that time. Jefferson was good. The Orlando teams were nothing like today. Edgewater was very good. Osceola was in Lakeland's district. Apopka was not as strong as today. To the south, Manatee was excellent. All-in-all, central Florida was not loaded with great teams.