Perspective

But the OL coach apparently looked to other campuses as well . . . https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/high-school/prep-broward/article229077444.html

Please remind me which coach you're referring to.

Any thoughts on the FHSAA scheduling 8 games over 4 consecutive days on the same natural grass field?

Darter, that may have been the 2008 4A Championship game. STA beat Lakeland 56-7.

I love how different people can watch the exact same clip and come away with completely different viewpoints. Hornet, I tend to agree with your take on this one. Bang-bang play. Jambun, I'll ask you another question: at what point does the ball become dead? While the pass was well overthrown (and I'm not going to go back and watch it yet again), my guess is that the ball had not yet hit the ground or a person standing out of bounds when the DB made contact. If that's correct, isn't the play still alive? While you're pondering that one, how about this hit from the NFL yesterday? Personal foul or clean hit? Yeah, yeah, I know Cam Newton is a QB, but he's also a big guy (does that matter?) who has made several plays 'with his feet' over the years. In this case, he was still in bounds when contact was made and he was right at (I'll even say 'just over') the line to gain on a critical 3rd and long play. The extra 15 yards ultimately put the Pats in range to kick a game-winning field goal in the final seconds.

The "Pre HIt" screenshot confirms the pass was well overthrown (and that the DB had his head down, with his eyes focused on the WR and not the flight path of the ball). The "Hit" screenshot confirms what I saw: the contact from the DB comes just as the WR is landing. And if we can't tell for sure with replay whether the WR's foot landed in bounds, on the line or out of bounds, how should a DB be able to tell in real time? Again, it appears to me that the only justification for calling this a penalty is because the ball was overthrown and the WR clearly didn't have the ball when he landed and contact was made. I see that happen all the time at the pro, college and high school level with no penalty call being made. Trelle, would you agree with me that the hit would have been totally clean if the WR had snagged that ball? That's why I'm asking Jambum whether, on a play like that, the DB is supposed to know whether the catch was made or not. Again, for what it's worth, the hit did not appear to be malicious or untimely; it was simply unnecessary because the pass was well overthrown -- something everyone in the stadium could see except the DB with his head down.

Based on my 30 seconds of in-depth Internet research, it appears that Doak Campbell has a natural grass field. The FHSAA has scheduled EIGHT games over four days. Two high school football games a day for four consecutive days. They had better hope that it doesn't rain in Tallahassee any of those days (or the day or two leading up to the games). In my humble opinion, there's no way that a natural grass field can stand up to that many games being played in that short of a time period -- especially if the field gets muddy. But even without the rain or the mud, that field is going to get chopped up pretty badly over those four days. I'm putting it out here right now: generally speaking, I have a great deal of respect for the FHSAA and what they try to accomplish (especially when the Florida legislature ties their hands behind their back). That said, I just don't see how you can reconcile "8 games over 4 days" with "player safety comes first." It looks to me like the FH$AA is simply trying to balance its budget.

Jambum, are DB's charged with the responsibility for knowing where the ball is at all times? Was that a personal foul simply because the pass was overthrown? As I watch the play, I see the DB break on the throw. The WR jumps for the overthrown pass. For the most part, the DB has his head down. The hit occurs almost simultaneous with the WR's foot landing (and, for what it's worth, the DB led with his shoulder and hit the body, not the head, of the WR). If the pass had been slightly less over thrown, so that it tipped off the outstretched hand of the WR, would it still have been a penalty? What if the WR had been able to get two hands on the pass? I would argue that if the WR had managed to get two hands on the ball, that hit by the DB would have been a text-book play. But it wasn't like the WR took two or three more steps before he was hit. Also, I think the hit looked a little harder than it was because the WR was slightly off balance when he landed/got hit, and took an awkward tumble (somehow losing his helmet in the process). Which gets me back to my original question: in real time, is the DB supposed to be able to tell if the WR makes the catch or doesn't so that he can make contact if there is a catch but somehow avoid the contact if the pass goes through the WR's hands? I guess, in hindsight, the DB could/should have simply wrapped up the WR, instead of bumping him, so that he didn't fall to the ground. I'm not arguing the call so much as I'm trying to get a little clarification as to what knowledge is imputed to the DB for purposes of making a personal foul call.

Anyone have a video clip of the play? Was it a "late" hit? An "unnecessary" hit? What made the hit a penalty?

Understood. However, it appears to me that IMG is the prototype for "academies," at least in Florida. If you want to focus the discussion on academies, as institutions separate and distinct from schools, that's fine. I'm prepared to do that. But when you overlap academies and schools (which is what has happened with IMG), it seems rather difficult to separate the issues. Nevertheless, and going forward, I'll try to carve out any consideration of the educational value of academies, as that invites further discussion and debate about their involvement in the FHSAA. By the way, a "broader perspective" is exactly what my wife, who is a terrific cook, has ended up with after 30 years of marriage.

So, three people responded and all three answered "yes." In other words, all three people believe that IMG is violating existing FHSAA rules. Proset went so far as to state that all private schools have to recruit to stay in business. But there's a difference between private schools advertising to a large pool of prospective students (perfectly legit) vs. making direct contact with select athletes for the purpose of encouraging those kids to come play football at the school (against the rules). Hey, I understand that good arguments can be made that public and private schools are inherently different and should be treated differently when it comes to sports, in general, and recruiting, specifically. To date, however, the FHSAA has not been willing to make that distinction. That's the problem I have with IMG (and arguably a handful of other schools). They actively recruit. Everybody knows it. Nothing gets done about it. Might as well tear that page out of the sports manual.

Absolutely. I'm just suggesting that it's going to continue to be even harder for road teams to win playoff games compared to a few years ago when home and away teams were predetermined and it was very possible for the "top" district winner in a region to have to travel to play a weaker district winner.

I suspect this trend will continue -- not so much for the teams specifically mentioned, but for all road teams, once the FHSAA goes back to last year's format. The 8 seed will rarely beat the 1 seed. Same with the 7 seed and the 2 seed. The 5 and 6 seeds may have a decent shot at the 4 and 3 seeds.

So does this make us even?

You got me. I guess I've been drafting too many contracts. And because you quoted me, I can't even go back and edit my original comment!

Old School, this one has me stumped. Cocoa is the only team I can find that has as many as 3 playoffs wins by 65 or more points since 2010 (65-0 over Clewiston in 2011, 70-0 over Labelle in 2013 and 67-0 over Avon Park in 2014). Since then, they've also racked up big wins over Bishop Verot (64-0 in 2016), Lake Placid (63-8 in 2017), Avon Park (62-7, also in 2017) and Hudson (62-0 this year). But I can't find another playoff win for Cocoa of 65 or more points. I'm waiving the white flag.

Quick "yes or no" question for Hornet, Gatorman, Proset and OldSchool (and anybody else who wants to answer): In your opinion, or based on information that has been shared with you, does IMG actively recruit kids to play on its football teams -- yes or no?

Maybe we could come up with fancy names to describe the teams that move up and down. I suggest "promotion" and "relegation." I have a feeling those terms might catch on.

IMG absolutely is an academy. In fact, "academy" is part of its formal name ("IMG Academy"). And arguably, in less than a decade, IMG has become the premier football academy in the country. Clearly there is a market out there for such an organization. But, let's be real about it. If IMG is going to market themselves as a sports academy (which they do) and aggressively pursue elite athletes to fill their rosters (which I believe they do), that's fine. But until the FHSAA develops a separate category of membership for sports academies, IMG really doesn't belong in the FHSAA. That doesn't mean that teams in Florida can't play them if they want to. They can. Just recognize that IMG is something different than all the other schools who are members of the FHSAA.

Johnny Jones, a 7th grader at Eisenhower Middle School, recently picked up his fifth offer to play high school football. The offer came from Westside High School, the only remaining school in the city that had not previously offered the 12-year old athlete. Westside Coach, Herman Boone IV, told reporters: "Jones is a stud. He's a foot taller than everyone else in his class. We were worried that perhaps he had topped out; that's why we hadn't offered him yet. But we had our doctors examine Johnny last week and they tell us that he has plenty of room to grow. That was good enough for us. Johnny's second cousin's great aunt on his mother's side was an Eagle way back when, so we're hoping that family tie will give us an edge over the other schools in town." Boone was overheard talking to Johnny's mother on the phone last night and promising that Johnny's family wouldn't have to pay another dime for his public high school education. Jones has had a strong season playing for his middle school flag team, playing on both sides of the ball. Coach Boone indicated that he was hoping to get Jones to make the 3.5 mile trip over to Westside to visit the campus and "see what high school life is all about." Boone got into trouble a few years back when he was accused of arranging recruits to shadow with Senior cheerleaders who 'knew their way around more than just the campus.' Boone has assured Westside administrators that he will assign Jones to "a certified 10th grade nerd . . . probably a band member, but we haven't ruled out a member of the drama club quite yet." Westside's rival, Central High School, first made an offer to Jones when he was in the 3rd grade at Roosevelt Elementary. Central Coach Bull Spellacheck told reporters at the time that he "could just tell Jones was going to be a beast" and that he wanted to be like one of the coaches on the Voice and be the first one to turn his chair around for Jones . . . something he has reminded Jones of once a week for the last four years. "Hey, it's worked for Kelly Clarkson, so it should work for me. I even got Johnny a cool 'Team Bull' jacket to wear once he picks us." Jones is expected to announce his decision next month at a signing ceremony that ESPN88 will cover live. The exact time will be determined once the Jones family can actually find baseball hats for each of the five high schools in town to use for the ceremony. HIgh school recruiting??? Um, no thanks.

I'll go with Fernandina Beach (beating West Nassau 34-22). Bolles then stopped the Pirate playoff win streak at one.

I know we've probably beat this topic to death over the last year or two, but I believe you have to make a distinction between "transfers" and "recruiting." Certainly the FHSAA treats the two differently (at least on paper). I'm not going to repeat the whole ordeal that led to the legislation a few years back, but the bottom line is that state legislature changed the law so that a kid can go to any school in his county so long as he lives in the district or there is capacity at the school that he wants to attend. And even if that school is at capacity, there are still a couple of ways for a kid to attend that particular school. So, if Johnny is at West Springfield and he decides, for whatever reasons, that he wants to attend East Springfield (assuming ESHS has capacity), Johnny can transfer. This is legal and expressly allowed by the FHSAA (because the legislature forced them to make it legal). And there are schools and coaches across the state that have created attractive destinations for kids who play football, just as there are schools that have established a reputation in a particular sport such that kids in that county or moving into the district would want to go there instead of another school in the same district. And for some kids and some sports, the academic side of the schools might even become a factor. Recruiting is different. Recruiting is the action to 'pressure, urge or entice' a kid not currently at a school to attend that school to play sports. The solicitation can come from the head coach, an assistant coach, a parent, a player or anyone else that fits the definition of "a representative of a school's athletic interests" in the FHSAA handbook/administrative policies. Recruiting is expressly prohibited by the FHSAA. So, to borrow from the hypothetical above, if Johnny is at West Springfield and a coach from East Springfield sends him a text message encouraging Johnny to transfer over to East Springfield, that's recruiting and that's against the rules. But it happens. A lot. Usually in more subtle ways, but it happens all the time. So, sometimes the one (recruiting) results in the other (transferring). Sometimes a kid just makes the decision on his own that he'd be better off at another school. But when the kid is being urged or enticed by someone associated with a school, that's when it's wrong.

Proset, my post wasn't really in response to your post, but more of a commentary about IMG. Having said that, I can't imagine there are too many people that come to this site and read the forum posts that don't already know all about IMG. I cannot argue with IMG's success. In my opinion, however, they are the antithesis of high school football. They have few, if any, home-grown kids. They recruit kids from all over in blatant disregard of FHSAA rules (and, yes, I have the receipts) and the FHSAA turns a blind eye to such activities because of cozy financial relationships, etc. Call it Prep School Football, call it High School Plus, call it anything other than "high school football" and I might even feel proud about having the "national champion" in my back yard. OldSchool, just saw your post: IMG hasn't been around all that long and in some respects I will admit that I'm impressed with what they have built in a short time. They are a true testament to the philosophy that 'if you build it, they will come.' Their facilities are truly impressive. And from the get-go, they (the school and the facilities) attracted the interest of kids who dreamed of playing big-time college football. Like a small college, IMG has had to supplement their collection of 3, 4 and 5-star kids with a handful of "preferred walkons." In the beginning, there were more of these kids than there are now. IMG has had to balance "scholarship" kids with the kids who come from families that can afford the steep IMG bill. In the early years, the kids whose families could pay had more money than talent, which created weaknesses on the team that other really good 'high school' teams could exploit. Now, there are enough families that have money that also have kids who have talent. Maybe not 4-5 star talent, but "good enough to start on virtually any other team in the state" talent. And I guarantee if you compare the IMG roster now to the IMG roster of old, you'd find a lot more out of state kids now. Hey, look, I get it: parents are willing to make an investment in their kids. Spend $50K or more on a kid's senior year of high school in order to get him a full-ride scholarship to a P-5 school could be a smart bet. But if IMG had been the team in the Friday Night Lights series, the show would have been cancelled after 3-4 shows, because it's just not the kind of high school program that resonates with people across the country. And certainly not with me.

Amazing. Seriously, who would have ever thought that if you bring in a large group of some of the best high school football players in the state/South/country and let them train together year-round in facilities that equal, if not surpass, the facilities of many of the smaller and mid-size colleges and universities across the nation, you'd end up with a team that wins all of its games? It's totally mind-blowing.

So, as oft is the case, the answer can be found in the FHSAA Handbook. Section 8.3.1. allows FHSAA members to compete in athletic competitions with any other member or with non-members in state, so long as 7 requirements are met (things like proof of insurance, eligibility requirements for kids at non-FHSAA school, etc.). If you want to see the whole thing, here's the link: https://fhsaa.com/documents/2020/10/1//2021_handbook_website_1001.pdf?id=292