gatorman-uf

Not a hypocrite... I believe the FHSAA screwed up classifications to begin with. If they did winner/runner-up, there should be 8 teams per district and 16 districts per class with 128 teams in a classification (assuming no M/S/R split). Top 2 teams in from each district would be perfectly fine. Even if we went to 64 teams per class, 8 districts with 8 teams would be fine. It would allow you to play 7 must win games. It also allows you to play 3 games that you might play for various reasons like they are a traditional rival (where one team has dominated the other) or it might be a national showcase game (that you might lose) or the coach wants to revisit a school he coached/played at. I don't think every game has to be life and death and I think if we insist on it, it is why schools like Suwannee don't want to play Columbia (pre-2022) or St. Augustine and Palatka were going to cancel rivalry game. Of course, if we went to my promotion/relegation system a lot of this goes away. 7A - 32 teams (no districts, all teams make playoffs, must play 7 games against other 7A teams, FHSAA should help with travel costs over 2 hours during regular season, RPI/MaxPreps for seeding). 6A - 32 teams(no districts, all teams make playoffs, must play 7 games against other 6A teams, FHSAA should help with travel costs over 2 hours during regular season, RPI/MaxPreps for seeding). 5A - 64 teams (8 districts with 8 teams, 32 teams make playoffs, district champs and wild cards determined by RPI/Max Preps. 4A - 64 teams (8 districts with 8 teams, 32 teams make playoffs, district champs and wild cards determined by RPI/Max Preps. 3A - 128 teams (16 districts with 8 teams, 16 teams make playoffs, district champs only. 2A - 129 teams (16 districts with 8 teams, 16 teams make playoffs, district champs only. 1A - 36 teams for rural classification, only 2 regions (North and South, top 8 in each region). Every year: Top 4 teams from each classification move up (based on the average of previous 4 years RPI/MaxPreps). Bottom 4 teams from each classification move down (based on the average of previous 4 years RPI/MaxPreps).

Remember it is two different formulas though. So how MaxPreps calculates SOS for their website might be different than how they calculate it for FHSAA. Additionally, if there were any Monday night games that might screw with it as well. I have no belief in MaxPreps, but I do know that these formulas only get better once the whole season is played (the same as the RPI formula previously). Additionally, any fan or coach paying attention to these rankings this early is kidding themselves. Way too much can change in two games. Week 8 after 7 games, you should see some normality. Let me get specific on why I don't trust MaxPreps not including margin of victory in their calculations. Bradford is the #10 ranked team in the state. They are 4-0, but their opponents are 4-1, 1-4, 2-1, and 2-2. (4-0, 1-3, 2-0, and 2-1, if we aren't counting Bradford's win over them) Not a murder's row of opponents at this point. They have only given up 7 points all season and won their games by several touchdowns. Could Bradford be a state title contender, sure! But they have the 108th "hardest" schedule. While some of you hated the RPI (still don't understand why considering RPI is often used in determining the field of 68 in NCAA basketball), at least it was to be replicated and was open sourced.

I hate using MaxPreps, but the solution for this is simply to wait until week 8 to start releasing these rankings. Until then there is too much volatility in these rankings. Also MaxPreps should release their formula so it can be double checked.

I would expect a lot of cancellations up and down the coast come tomorrow.

Santa Fe (Alachua) Raiders won over the Gainesville Hurricanes stopping a 16 game losing streak this past Friday. St. Francis Academy won over First Academy (Leesburg) to snap their losing streak at 25 games on Sept 16th. Mourning (Miami) snapped a 41 game losing streak this past Friday against Miami Country Day! Lake Buena Vista is on a 15 game losing streak (only 2nd year in existence). Stanton Prep on a 24 game losing streak?. But definitely have 2 winnable games on the schedule. Not going to do a lot of research, but any other long losing streaks currently active?

Can you explain how it is better specifically?

I know this thread it about Columbia, but I don't want to make a new topic. Columbia's former district rival, Riverside, finally has a new field. Thank god, that field was one of the worst year in and year out. Alachua County Commission needs to step up and do the same for Citizen's Field in Gainesville.

It requires the FHSAA to do work. I know the amount of hours I put in to make the RPI for one region for one classification to work. It was a lot of set up and then probably an hour to 2 hours hunting down scores from twitter/score stream/maxpreps, etc. each week (don't know how Lax and Pinkos do/did it) Even when I would double and triple check everything, I still had small mess ups. I would also contend that the FHSAA was essentially using the MaxPreps system last year, because I could never get the numbers to match once out of state games became part of the equation. Additionally, they were not helpful in trying to resolve the problem (unlike when Frank Beasley was doing it, he was A LOT of help). My belief (based on ABSOLUTELY nothing) is probably the FHSAA/MaxPreps doesn't want people to know that the previous years rankings are used in the system or margin of victory or something else that we would find objectionable. When I read the post on MaxPreps site that some one above posted, it basically sounds a lot like Margin of Victory is a primary source of rankings. To undue that might cause problems. Additionally, not every state handles games the same or requires schools to post to MaxPreps. Kickoff Classics, Spring Games, JV Games all somehow make it to the varsity schedule and get counted. Since there is no human looking at the schedule in real time and the FHSAA doesn't control it, there is little they can do to fix it. I promise, there is going to be some team who figures out to game the situation and ends up as a higher seed or even qualifying because of it.

Ray, I appreciate what you are saying, but I don't think it is as simple as stick-to-it-ness and pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps. You already acknowledge that the system is unfair by saying that you think the split of metro/suburban is a good thing. In other words, you want more fairness when compared to the old system. I do to, I just don't think the Metro/Suburban split really solves the issue. For various reasons, some of these programs are bad. They are punching bags for other teams in their districts. Every region of the state has 5-10 of these teams easily. Teams that are so bad, you put a W in pen before the season starts when you see them on the schedule. Teams that were bad when grandpa played, dad played, and now the grandson plays. Teams that a 3 win season is a sign of a good coach, before he jumps ship to a better school. I look at these schools and feel sorry for them. No coach is going to stay long enough to change the culture and maintain that culture. No booster program is going to invest in a horribly losing program. And by keeping them in these classifications, you give them a ready made excuse for their failures (there are other teams have more money, resources, transfers, etc). I want to take those excuses away. I want to put them in a bottom classification against other horrible teams, so they can't complain that a SuperTeam beat their brains in. They can't complain that some team in their new classification is getting a ton of transfer, because few players transfer to the worst school in the area. And they are all competing against the worst school.

Until the proprietary formula because public, zero trust from me. Additionally, as I note in another, the MaxPreps ranking had the University School in the top 30 when they play zero or one game. I wondering how much MaxPreps' formula gives credit to previously successful years rather than currently successful.

Sigh. Where is the equal opportunity? One team is getting transfers, one team isn't. By accepting the Metro/Suburban split you already acknowledge the idea of creating a more fair system. If anything, my system is the truly capitalist system of allowing good programs to move up and bad programs to move down (since we can't bankrupt them).

Using your analogy, I look at Johnny Rotten's previous 4 years and see that he was in AP classes that he was ill-prepared for. The system forced him into it, but Johnny lacks the parental(community) support that Markie Moneybags has and doesn't have the natural ability that Mr. Perfect does. He is in a class where they grade on a curve, so even when he does well, he never does as well as those other two and constantly earns an F (fails to make the playoffs). Sure, in the very long run, if Johnny sticks with it, he might be barely able to not be in the F range, but until then, he is stuck there (according to the current system). He is losing motivation and at some point quits even trying because he knows he can't compete with those others. He is in the wrong environment. I want to put him in an environment on similar ability and support kids and let them compete. The ones that truly excel in a situation like this over a course of 4 years (mind you, in my system it would be only 12% of that class) would be able to moved up and kids who were struggling move down. Leaving the analogy now, I don't want to move a team up for 1 year of greatness, I want that school to have several (4) years of greatness before they move up. I want them to prove that they can run, pass, block, and tackle on their level before we move them up to more advanced things (a higher class). I would also contend that some in my promotion/relegation system that we are only talking about 16 district champions out 128 teams making the playoffs. (8 team districts). That means to win your district you probably have 5 or 6 wins. To win the playoff you would need 4 wins, so we are talking a 9 or 10 win team that eventually wins a state championship at the lowest level. If we need to, allow district runner-ups in and play down to a regional championship instead if you want the precious title of state champion not to be sullied. As for the 1A 4x100 state champion, you missed the point. That team wouldn't have made it to the final heat, but we still recognize their pitifulness as a state champion. They excelled, the same way that a team in promotion/relegation system could. You are looking at their past 4 years and declaring that they are unfit for the title champion. I am looking at what they accomplished in that year and recognizing their championship.

In track and field 2022, I looked at the 4 x 100 meter relay. The top 1A boys team in that event had a time of 41.91 seconds. That time would be 14th overall in the state finals last year. Should we not reward that team for being the best of a bad classification? Absolutely not, they competed under a set of rules and won. The same would be true in a promotion/relegation system. Not all teams would succeed, but some would and they should be rewarded. As for your public education analogy, schools already have regular, honors, AP/IB, and Dual Enrollment College courses. We already are separating out the kids by ability levels. At some point, kids realize that the regular level isn't challenging enough or good enough for them so they move to honors. At some point the AP/IB kid realizes that the level of effort to sustain being a top notch AP/IB kid isn't worth it so they would rather be a regular kid.

Right, we can't shut down the transfer issue (well, we can but that would take intestinal fortitude from our state legislature, that they don't have.) But can we limit the effects of it. Right now, if you are a 4M team that develops a player or two, they get snatched away by another 4M team and you then have to play that team for your district games. To me that seems worse than those players transferring away and you playing against other teams that are just trying to field a team. Transfers (both at the college and HS level) are quickly realizing that transferring doesn't guarantee playing time or a better situation. Eventually, kids and parents will realize that transferring to a "better" school doesn't get you recruited when you are on the bench or there is no film on you.

Who cares? We are so obsessed with the "right" teams winning, the "right" teams making the playoffs, we forget that there are tons of kids who deserve a chance to have a competitive season and be able to play for something of noteworthiness. Fine, have the worst classifications play to a regional championship instead of a state championship, if we are so stuck on that idea. The idea that we are "punishing" these elite teams is silly. You constantly complain that you can't be an elite team in today's high school sports without transfers. If all of the "elite" teams are getting transfers than they should all have a chance to win a state when they play against each other. If we took the top 32 teams from MaxPreps last year (minus IMG, Clearwater Academy International, University School (who had no record and still was ranked in the top 32, which should send a message to coaches that MaxPreps SUCKS, and Madison, because they are 1A). You get this in alphabetical order: American Heritage (Plantation) Apopka Berkeley Prep (Tampa) Bolles (Jacksonville) Buchholz (Gainesville) Cardinal Gibbons (Fort Lauderdale) Central (Miami) Chaminade-Madonna (Hollywood) Cocoa Columbus (Miami) Edgewater (Orlando) Florida State University High School (Tallahassee) Gulliver Prep (Miami) Homestead Jesuit (Tampa) Jones (Orlando) Killian (Miami) Lake Gibson (Lakeland) Lake Mary Lakeland Merritt Island Northwestern (Miami) Osceola (Kissimmee) Palmetto (Miami) Pine Forest (Pensacola) Riverview Sarasota (Sarasota) Seminole (Sanford) St. Thomas Aquinas (Fort Lauderdale) Tampa Bay Tech (Tampa) Treasure Coast (Port St. Lucie) Venice West Orange (Winter Garden) I fully acknowledge that for a school like Pine Forest and FSU High, this would suck for travel. But for the rest if you randomly chose 7 games for your regular season games, would those not be packed house, drive across the state to see them play kind of games? Is any team guaranteed to win this? Is any team really having no chance? How many "elite" teams are we missing from this?

I will continue to beat the promotion/relegation drum. Promotion and Relegation is about solving the problem of competitiveness and participation on a weekly and season basis. You put the 128 "worst" teams in one classification, where there are 16 districts of 8 teams each and only a district champion is making the playoffs. I promise the "state champion" of that classification is going to have 10-13 wins. For the average fan, we would look and see a deserving team winning. Now, would the people on here think they are a great team, probably not, but who cares. They faced teams of similar history and won. They most likely will move up a classification and be average for a while. If teams are competitive, you will see more players and more community involvement.

This is the perfect example of why Metro/Suburban/Rural is idiotic. You have teams like Leto and Brandon who are obviously struggling schools in terms of football. These teams should be playing other struggling schools and schools like them every week. I don't care if they have to travel an 2 hours north, south, east, or west. This is why a pyramid structure (similar to European soccer) makes more sense than what the FHSAA is currently doing. As the programs get their feet under them, then let them move up. Can someone explain to me how Brandon can be so successful in wrestling, but struggle in football. I would think there would be a lot of overlap between the two. Or is it because wrestlers only wrestle when you are that good. Another question, is Brandon even dominate at wrestling anymore?

Good win by CHS. Wonder what the Madison Homer will blame two losses in a row on.

Glad you guys won. Keeps my prediction of 6-3 a possibility. Definitely does not look like it was an easy win. Hopeful that you guys get get to .500 this coming week.

I am sure he is celebrating today as a CHS alum was the one who blocked the extra point at the end of the FSU- LSU game.

Ouch... 31-24, didn't see that coming. Hope ColumbiaFan is ok. Lost 4 5 straight going back to last season. Now they have Deland coming to town. 4-5 looking like a strong possibility right now.

I did, I was right.

1) As explained above by others, I think there is some loyalty being shown to a player. Even though he drove them down for a TD, he was aided by 45 yards of penalties. The TD pass looked ill-advised, but WR made a great catch. The INT TD return was also his fault and should have had it picked one play earlier when the ball spent to the slot receiver and the defender on the outside receiver jump the route. So Jefferson comes in as QB, I am not sure how good he really is. He reminds me of Tyler Murphy (UF/Boston College). Big framed QB, but I am not sure he has the touch or accuracy to be a really good QB (even at the high school level). Many of his passes looked like wounded ducks (could have just been the wetness). 2) Same result, BHS was the better team. They were bigger upfront and would have been able to run the ball more effectively without the rain. Honestly, CHS tried a lot of quick WR screens and passes as a response to the wet conditions, but quickly went away from it. They tried running it, but I don't think they have a running back that they have any confidence in. So a lot of QB off tackles. 3) My prediction for CHS was 6-3 with losses to Buchholz, Trinity Christian, and Deland and a district championship. I think they are still on track for that. If they lose to Union County this week or don't look good winning, I can see a lot of doubts creeping in.

Not what I mean by discipline. Not knowing assignments/plays. See BHS qb run. See all of the sacks because no one called out blitzes

All those stars, no depth. No offensive line. No discipline. No creativity.