Hwy17
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Posts posted by Hwy17
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What I like about this new reformed Heartland Conference is its a group of peers with similar demographics, communities, traditions, and they typically play each other anyway. Also the fact that they are taking matters into their own hands knowing FHSAA isn't going to make any real changes anytime soon.
In my opinion, Mulberry, Fort Meade, Clewiston, Okeechobee and Moore Haven would fit right in. That's assuming they'd be interested and the current membership would let them in.
Now we just need some others in other parts of the state to do the same.
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10 hours ago, nolebull813 said:
In the 70’s they left the SWC and joined the Coral Coast Conference
Point is they have been apart of a conference for decades. This Heartland Conference is nothing new, and is actually a throwback to all these decades ago.
The Heartland Conference was around late 70s to mid 80s. We sometimes played in a district as well as the conference. I believe the membership was Hardee, Desoto, Avon Park, Sebring, Lake Placid, Okeechobee, Fort Meade and Mulberry.
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1 hour ago, PinellasFB said:
Can someone explain to me the SSAA playoff format? They have 11-man and 1A thru 5A brackets. Are their classes related to school size or is it a promotion/relegation thing? With so few teams in each bracket, why not just have one bracket and perhaps some that don't make the playoffs, especially the really bad teams who just want to get the season over?
I don't know how SSAA determines class, nor do I know what their bylaws are. I know it actually started as a group of small private schools that felt that they didn't fit in FHSAA after the split between 1A rural, 1A & 2A. There were a few associates at the time and they merged. Somewhere in there they started letting public schools choosing to go independent in. I have a lot of questions too.
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I don't know how SSAA determines class or conducts it's playoffs, this is just a hypothetical ideal of mine. Actually something like thus was talked about in 2020 when covid messed up the season.
Image if groups of like minded schools around the state formed conferences similar to the below mentioned Heartland conference. If a conference gets 12 or more to join, split into divisions. Do like FBS college football with conference championship games and bowls. Play a 12 game regular season, then a post season. Match up conference champion vs conference champion, runner up vs runner up, winning season vs winning season. Just a thought.
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On 1/12/2025 at 11:53 AM, Nulli Secundus said:
Implementing 6-8 team districts statewide will take some.... consolidation. Yes, that's word for the day, CONSOLIDATION; district consolidation or class reduction. I'm all for it though, lol.
3 districts per region instead of 4.
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49 minutes ago, Dr. D said:
If your goal is fair and equitable competition for all teams -- you're screwed by the current environment. If you believe in some kind of Darwinian "survival of the fittest" competition, the current system is right for you.
Except it's not "survival of the fittest". More like who can manipulate the system the best. I find it fascinating how certain programs that were average at best, or couldn't beat a certain rival for years, all of a sudden are tops in their class.
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9 minutes ago, Dr. D said:
Under School Choice laws and Controlled Open Enrollment, essentially every transfer is considered a bona fide move by the state of Florida. So the FHSAA will never be able to impose limitations or restrictions based on transfer movement. The best they can hope for is to make adjustments based on results after the fact (e.g. Open/Championship proposal for 2026).
Defeats the whole concept of classification. No school should bother reporting enrollment numbers then.
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I seem to recall having this discussion before. I recall mentioning limiting transfers & roster size, basing classification on transfers, and requiring transfers to either sit a year or play JV. Nobody seemed to like those ideas.
Just so we're clear, I never have had an issue when a player transfers due to a legitimate bona fide move.
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52 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:
Sounds like the teams at the most disadvantage in the entire state by far is the metro teams no talent wants to play for. Because how is 80 percent of the teams in Dade and Broward scary bad? They get their talent plucked by the top 20 percent. And those teams don’t have to recruit. Players know who is good and who has coaches with the right connections to increase their chances to get to college. And if they are already D1 they know which teams have the best chance to win a title. They don’t need to recruit anymore.
The only thing I can think of that would make any sense to the issue with transfers is any team with 7 plus transfers in a offseason (random number. It can be 5-10 etc), that team automatically has to play in an open division bracket for the playoffs.
Agree! But FHSAA won't go for it so we have to do something else.
FYI, the SSAA just tweeted that Hardee will compete in the SSAA Atlantic division for 2025.
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6 hours ago, nolebull813 said:
There is levels to everything: even in the NFL there are teams that are “horrible” by their own standards. So every level of athletics has horrible teams, bad, good, great and elite. That’s the name of the game. There is no way to make it where everyone is just “good”. To make it fair. That’s not the way competition is designed.
But I do agree that teams that would be classified as “horrible” or “bad” should remove themselves from the competition that is way above their pay grade so that they can work on developing into something good.
It’s no different than soccer in Europe. England has about 5-6 leagues. The bottom 4 one league gets demoted into the league under it, and the top 4 get promoted. I love that idea. We need a promotion/demotion system here
NFL and FBS college football is about how much money you want to invest. Bad teams in the NFL are bad because they won't spend the money on free agents and trade their best players for profit ( the late Hugh Culverhouse was tops at it, lol). FBS requires a financial commitment higher than FCS or Division 2 or 3. Plus college football allows for recruitment of talent. High school football doesn't, or at least isn't supposed to. But then we see threads, like the another one on this page where 25 players follow a coach across the city to another school. That's not right.
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3 hours ago, PinellasFB said:
You do realize that every team adds to the whole and not just the good teams? What was so beautiful about the system before the transfer/super team era was that sometimes the traditionally bottom teams would have a special player or group of players move through their system and have a special season(s) that would talked about for decades. Do you think Derrick Henry would have played for Yulee today? Sometimes the great teams would have a rebuilding year too, giving others that window of opportunity to win that year. Now, it's which transfers moved over to Venice, MNW, etc. to fill the graduation gaps for next year? Not everybody wants to see the same teams over and over again *and* we don't want to see any new blood jump in due to a sudden transfer influx.
You get it. None of these schools in this new conference are in metropolitan areas were they can pick off talent from a neighboring school. These schools share a number of similarities in demographics and traditions. It's my hope that the conference expands to 10 or 12 members and a few more conferences like it form around the state.
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21 hours ago, Dr. D said:
As a proponent of "like vs. like", I applaud the move by these schools. But this represents a 1% net loss to the FHSAA of the 460 schools playing football (2 of the 7 already play in the SSAC). So doubtful this even registers on the FHSAA's radar, as the loss of revenue is miniscule and new teams will be coming in. I'm afraid it will take a loss of 10 times as many to get the FHSAA's attention and for them to ask the question, why? Maybe this is the tipping point, and others will follow in significant numbers. Or not. Time will tell.
I believe more will follow.
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3 hours ago, nolebull813 said:
I love this idea. More teams need to follow suit. I believe some Orlando area teams did this but they remained in the FHSAA as independents but only played each other. There was about 10 teams and they all played each other and I think 1 “non district” game.
It was 10 of the worst teams in the Orlando area who had less than a zero percent chance of winning state so it made sense.
my hope is one day there is a group of quality teams in one division and a group of not quality in the other. like a division one and division two. The SSAA can be the league of teams who have no chance to win a real championship so they can compete in a bottom tier league for their own title
it’s a win-win. Because it trims off all the fat and allows the teams who have a real chance compete for a real championship. While the other teams who normally would have no shot can stay separated, so it doesn’t water down the real league with a bunch of sacrificial lambs.
I can't wait until what's left of FHSAA is less than a handful of schools. Then you will have you "elite" division.
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4 hours ago, MarkECannon said:
There has been talk amongst Desoto and Hardee about this recently. It has the SSAA written all over it. The few athletic directors I’ve spoken to that have moved over to the SSAA are pretty pleased with their decisions. Not sure what to say about the state’s oldest rivalry leaving the FHSAA.
As I understand it, a school doesn't have to give up FHSAA membership to join SSAA. The FHSAA views SSAA schools as independents. SSAA conducts it's own post season tournaments, awards its own championships and has a separate set of by-laws.
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I've been told that Hardee has applied to join SSAA and can only assume the others have as well. Frostproof & Labelle are already SSAA members. Play won't begin until 2026. Honestly I would not be surprised if more schools don't follow suit. Here's the article:
SEVEN FLORIDA SCHOOLS TO FORM HEARTLAND CONFERENCE
By DOUG DONNELLY
Seven high school football programs in central and southwest Florida have announced the formation of a new athletic conference, the Heartland Conference, set to begin competition in 2026.
The conference will consist of DeSoto County High School, Frostproof High School, LaBelle High School, Lake Placid High School, Lemon Bay High School, Hardee High School, and Avon Park High School.
Organizers say the similar-size schools are joining together with a mission to advocate for Florida High School Athletic Association rules for the greater good of the development of student athletes. Consistent scheduling, natural rivalries and geographic proximity are benefits of the conference.
Play will begin in the 2026-27 scheduling cycle so that schools can honor current contracts.
“The rebirth of the Heartland Conference will be exciting for communities, fans, players, and coaches,” said DeSoto County High School coach Clifford Lohrey. “The opportunity to create stability in the continuously changing world of high school athletics is important for rivalries that are heading toward extinction. The chance to have both conference and district play in our schedule is important in creating an environment where every game matters.”
Jason Mensing, head coach at Lemon Bay, echoed those sentiments, adding that the schools share a common philosophy.
“The Heartland Conference will provide our student-athletes with consistent, high-quality competition against schools with similar demographics and geographic proximity,” Mensing said. “This will also create more opportunities for local rivalries and enhance the overall experience for our players, coaches, and fans.”
The conference aims to create a more level playing field for each member school, fostering closer and more exciting contests. Despite some additional travel, schools fit a common footprint with similar enrollments in addition to being in geographical locations that limits rapid shifts in student movement.
“Frostproof is very excited to rekindle an old relationship that creates a competitive excitement and experience for our kids,” said Richard Marsh, Frostproof coach.
Lake Placid head coach Jay Del Castillo said his district is enthusiastic about the future of the Heartland Conference and the positive impact it will have on their football programs.
“How exciting it is to get like-minded coaches together for a common goal of benefiting the kids,” Castillo said. “Not only will this give them a chance to compete against their fellow friends, but it gives them another chance to be seen and honored for their hard work throughout the season.”
Guidelines for the awarding of trophies and post-season honors are being drafted now.
“Avon Park is excited for the return of the Heartland Conference,” said coach Lee Albritton. “All of the coaches and programs that are joining have similar mindsets and goals for our programs and doing things certain ways. We look forward to competing with all of these program’s year in and year out for the Heartland Conference championship.”
For more information on the Heartland Conference, contact Jason Mensing, Heartland Conference president. -
I had to look this up. Never heard of it before and from the looks of it, we all do it.
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9 hours ago, h8r said:
correct,
im still searching for the illegal part of the multimillionare that jumps into the bad school down the road, as their financial consultant and wants to give bill johnson the head coach at the good school over there, 50k to coach at his school.
what part of that is illegal?
I don't believe it is illegal as long as any bonus, supplement, perk, ect is coming from a booster club and not taxpayer money as part of the teacher salary or supplement.
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On 4/16/2024 at 5:08 PM, nolebull813 said:
If you cut the classes to 4, that’s 125 teams each class. 500 teams. The rest are independent SSAC teams etc.
125 teams divided into 16 districts is 7-8 teams per district. No issue. Travel and scheduling would be easy breezy. Most games would be local and keep the rivalries fresh.
Playoffs would be an animal. The districts would be so big, and the classes so small that it would be highly unlikely that a garbage team makes the playoffs. Maybe one here or there but nothing like it is now.
Classify by enrollment. Maybe multiply privates by 1.5.
Let’s figure it out
On 4/16/2024 at 5:11 PM, nolebull813 said:You could even bump teams up and down based on winning percentage.
After 2 years, teams with a .750 or higher would have to move up a class with the cap still being 125 teams per class. Teams with the highest winning percentage above .750 would move up first and so on.
Same with winning percentages of .250 or worse. They would move down with the worst percentages moving down first
Agree with what you think mostly, except I'd use a 4 year average and only move the top team in each region up and bottom team in each region down based on that average. I think 4 years gives a better overall picture of a program.
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Florida is and always has been a low wage state, thanks in part to retirees who make up a significant portion of our population. The economy here is heavily service industry type jobs. Outside of healthcare related services, there just aren't that many high paying jobs. I tell people this when they first move here, don't be surprised to find the checkout clerk at the grocery store has a degree. It's been this way my whole life and I don't see it changing anytime soon. While I believe most people agree teacher salaries are low, in many parts of the state, it's above the average.
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3 hours ago, nolebull813 said:
17 games against non-district games. 9 away, 8 home
Durant at Lake Gibson
Lennard at Pasco
Robinson at Seminole
Spoto at Davenport
Sumner at Bartram Trail
Riverview at Sarasota Riverview
Steinbrenner at River Ridge
Hillsborough at Columbia
Tampa Bay Tech at Venice
Palmetto at AlonsoOviedo at Sickles
Lakeland at Sumner
Palmetto at Newsome
Cardinal Mooney at Leto
Cardinal Mooney at Chamberlain
Jenkins at Jefferson
Fort Meade at Freedom
What week is Fort Meade playing Freedom?
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2 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:
I am sure some kids choose to play for the powers. However, it seems that today, many coaches and players recruit the players from other schools and never get punished for it. You have coaches liking players on social media and not a darn thing happens to them. CHEATERS. Lakeland can play with anybody when they get transfers but when they were limited after probation, they were just another average team. Need an open division with about 36 teams and that would force the powers to beat each other up. Pick on someone their own size.
I see this happening on more than one occasion: One player transfers from school A to school B. Next thing you know, there's a mass exodus from school A to school B. Why's that? Did all those kids move? Is the new coach at school B a former coach at school A ?(Usually it is). Now school A is having trouble competing while school B is all of a sudden the new powerhouse.
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1 hour ago, Longtime Observer said:
What is often missed in these discussions is the fact that, almost always, players/families CHOOSE to play for the powers. We see families pick up and move to a new area just so their kid can play for a particular program. Or, they willingly commute a further distance to play for a preferred program. This narrative of there being bad guys at a few programs going out and rounding up all the best players through bribes or coercion is silly.
Players seek the best opportunities for themselves, just like they do when they pick a college to play for. No one expects college teams to end up with equal talent. No one sees Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State etc ending up with a disproportionate share of talent and thinks 'Gosh, they HAD to have cheated. How else would they get all those good players?" Those programs have a proven record of success, and players often seek THEM out. For some reason, when it comes to high school, people get up in arms if a handful of programs end up with the best players. They demand an equal share of talent for high schools. This despite the fact that they do NOT think this way when it comes to other areas like academics or the arts. No one begrudges the parents who seek residency in the zone of top academic schools. No one accuses the top academic schools of "cheating" when they end up with a disproportionate share of motivated and/or gifted students. The logical inconsistency is amusing and annoying.
First off, comparing high school athletics to college is an apple to an orange. Colleges are supposed to recruit as they offer scholarships for coming to play for them.
Secondly, the purpose of school choice was started for academic purposes, so parents can find the best option for their children. I personally support the concept, but what we see happening with athletics wasn't what school choice was intended for.
As I stated earlier, I have no problem with a transfer when there is indeed a legitimate move. But what I have observed is certain schools poaching players from neighboring schools through one tactic or another.
- DarterBlue2 and Ray Icaza
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9 hours ago, SportsFan said:
I would definitely like to see everyone long term breakaway and form a new association as the FHSAA is clearly not looking out for the best interests of the majority of athletes coaches and schools in the state and are catering to a few instead of the whole picture
Sadly I think some schools have too much pride to go independent and would stay in a screwed system then be successful in a competitive one
I don't know how it works in those counties with a centralized athletic department, like Hillsborough. Does a school have to get permission from their school board to go independent?
FBS for FL HS Football
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That's sorta the ideal I have. Someone I spoke with leads me to be believe Lake Region wouldn't be interested. Tenoroc on the other hand might. IDK? I look at how the SEC does there scheduling; play your division, 3 from the other and 3 whoever out of conference. Then a conference championship game. I don't see why we couldn't have a 12 game regular season. I'd like to convince a group of schools in another part of the state to do the same. Then our champ plays their champ.