Nulli Secundus
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Posts posted by Nulli Secundus
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19 minutes ago, Jesse said:
Is madison county top 5 county in Florida football. Broward, dade, Duval, madison,
In playoff win percentage, Yes. In finals appearances, No. In titles, No.
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13 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
The difference is that there's really only 3 good privates in Duval and they are all in 4a Or lower
In SFL there are schools like Columbus, STA, AHP and Cardinal Gibbons who have been in upper classifications for a while (yes Cardinal Gibbons is 4a now but they used to share a district with AHP)
That's in addition to the publics in Dade county who hault several Broward publics in their path but even so those Broward County publics have had more success than the publics in Duval county
Broward public schools hold a 6-4 lead over Duval Public schools in title games. Hardly a barn burner.
Broward public schools have a 63-49 advantage over Dade public schools. That's only part of the story as most of Broward county's titles are produced by private schools whereas Dade's titles are heavily public. That's a post for another day. However, for the 63 head to head games that Broward has won against Dade, only 2 of those teams went on to win a state title.
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42 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
First of all the main reason Duval county can't get more publics winning state titles is probably just because the coaching in the county isn't up to par with what you get from Orlando, Pensacola, Tampa or SFL
The most talented teams in Duval county lack the discipline which in a perfect example would have been for anyone who saw Riverside vs Columbia during the regular season this year
Riverside had several turnovers including two on special teams (nearly had 3 additional turnovers on special teams) primarily because they didn't know how to handle the ball on a kickoff or punt. The lack of discipline is exactly why Riverside was never gonna win a state title
(1)
Perhaps the reason Duval doesn't have more public champions is the same reason Broward doesn't. Think about it.
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In 2A (old 4A + old 3A), the following teams move down to 1A (old 2A + old 1A)
Fernandina Beach
Wolfson
Maclay
Providence
Santa Fe (Alachua)
Central (Brooksville)
Melbourne Central Catholic
Cornerstone Charter
Davenport
Discovery
Oasis
Gateway (Fort Myers)
North Broward Prep
Miami Carol City
Everglades Prep
St. John Paul II (Boca Raton)The following teams from 1A (old 2A + old 1A) would move up to 2A (old 3A + old 4A) to replace them:
Trinity Christian (Jacksonville)
Munroe Day
Baker
Chipley
Orlando Christian Prep
Zephyrhills Christian
Blountstown
Madison County
First Baptist (Naples)
Northside Christian
Chiefland
Union County
Champagnat Catholic
John Carroll
Hawthorne
Pahokee -
In 3A (old 5A), the following teams move down to 2A (old 4A + old 3A)
Ribault
Arnold
Pensacola
Palatka
Atlantic (Port Orange)
Lake Weir
Horizon
Lake Buena Vista
Booker
Robinson
Weeki Wachee
Anclote
Miami Springs
Mariner
Hialeah-Miami Lakes
LaBelleThe following teams from 2A (old 4A + old 3A) would move up to 3A (old 5A) to replace them:
Bolles
South Walton
Trinity Catholic
Florida High
Cocoa
The Villages
Lakeland Christian
Benjamin
Lakewood
Clewiston
Berkeley Prep
Clearwater Central Catholic
Gulliver Prep
Cardinal Gibbons
Chaminade-Madonna
Cardinal Newman -
In 4A (old 6A), the following teams move down to 3A (old 5A)
Orange Park
Westside
Matanzas
Ridgeview
Gateway (Kissimmee)
South Lake
Okeechobee
Suncoast
King
Brandon
Freedom (Tampa)
Blake
Cape Coral
East Lee County
Boyd Anderson
Northeast (Oakland Park)
The following teams from 3A (old 5A) would move up to 4A (old 6A) to replace them:West Florida
Raines
Baker County
Wakulla
Merritt Island
Rockledge
Satellite
Bishop Moore
Clearwater
Sebring
Nature Coast
Gibbs
Miami Killian
American Heritage (Plantation)
Miami Central
Stranahan -
In 5A (old 7A), the following teams move down to 4A (old 6A)
Leon
Winter Springs
First Coast
Lake Howell
George Jenkins
Winter Haven
Fort Pierce Westwood
East Ridge
Strawberry Crest
North Port
Lennard
Leto
Hialeah
Blanche Ely
South Plantation
Everglades
The following teams from 4A (old 6A) would move up to 5A (old 7A) to replace them:Pine Forest
Riverside
Mosley
Lincoln
Vanguard
Auburndale
Jones
Lake Wales
Jesuit
Braden River
Hillsborough
Sumner
Naples
Miami Northwestern
Coconut Creek
Plantation
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In 6A (old 8A), the following teams move down to 5A (old 7A)
West Port
Colonial
Evans
University (Orlando)
Royal Palm Beach
Santaluces
John I. Leonard
Cypress Creek (Orlando)
Lakewood Ranch
Palm Harbor University
Riverview (Riverview)
Windermere
Southwest Miami
Coral Springs
West Boca Raton
Taravella
The following teams from 5A (old 7A) would move up to 6A (old 8A) to replace them:Buchholz
Niceville
University (Orange City)
Nease
Edgewater
Martin County
Melbourne
Lake Gibson
Tampa Bay Tech
Lehigh
Wharton
Palmetto
St. Thomas Aquinas
Homestead
Dillard
Miramar -
6 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:
I have suggested numerous times over the years that we should have a promotion/relegation system (my opinions on how it should be done, have changed, but always a recognition that classifications based solely on size seem antiquated). Additionally, the Florida Legislature's neutering of the FHSAA and now Open Enrollment have created more of what many of us expected and the FHSAA is limited in what it can do.
- Private vs Public classifications (No go with state legislature)
- Metro vs Suburban (Doesn't solve the problem of transfers/recruits and throws a lot of schools under the bus)
- Sitting out a year for transferring (no go with state legislature)
- Multiplier based on transfers (It might solve the issue for small schools, but does STA really care if they play in 7A or 8A?).
My solution use the MaxPreps end of year rankings for the previous 4 years, average them, and move a team up or down based on their ranking within their classification. Good teams will rise up, bad teams will move down, teams will be able to find some competitive balance within their classification. The benefit of this is that it works in all sports. A school dominates in baseball? Move them up! That same school's soccer team scored 1 goal all season, move them down! So yes in theory, your school could be 8A in volleyball and 4A in football, who cares, we want competitive balance that the current classification system doesn't offer.
People might suggest that the FHSAA offered this up a couple of years ago, I think they did it wrong. They based it on that season's results and it affected the playoffs. So if you were really good that one season, have a chance at the state championship, the FHSAA wanted to yank you from your classification and put you in a separate class. Long term that might work, but the state wasn't ready for that.
So I did the research, here are the teams that would move up/down in each class. Would we have teams that would still be automatic favorites to win the state championship? Sure, but it takes time, coaches/ADs are not going to take a radical switch of where their team is.
You showed me yours, now I'll show you mine, LOL!
Class reduction - The first thing I would do is combine classes 1A & 2A, then 3A & 4A for total of 6 classes (1A-6A). The reason I decided to go in this direction is the face that Classes 1A, 2A, 3A & 4A are roughly have the size of the larger classes and for this reason, more than half of all schools make the playoffs. The also contributes to the fact that half the schools have BYE in the first round as there are not enough schools in those classes to fulfill 16 1st round games like classes 5A-8A.
8A=6A
7A=5A
6A=4A
5A=3A
4A+3A=2A
2A+1A=1APromotion/Relegation based on 2021 season would be as follows:
The top 25% of each class will move up based on regular season and playoff performance.
The bottom 25% of each class will move down based on regular season results. It can be ASSumed that the bottom 25% of each class won't make the post season.
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1 hour ago, skyway said:
Awesome find of that 1997 STA game! Thanks for sharing. Now we just need to find the 1998 STA game and the 2009 DLS game!
Those games are impossible to find. I know they exist somewhere but I've had difficulties finding them.
Also came across highlights of 2006 St. X vs Lakeland in Cincinnati as part of the Kirk Herbstreit Ohio vs. USA Challenge.
Nothing on 2008 Pittsburgh Central Catholic (Friends of the Coal series) or 2009 DLS.
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1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:
Counties have perennial losers and unfortunately Poinciana is ours. Tenoroc is Polk's as they did beat Poinciana this year but not last year.
Tenoroc finished 5-3. Lake Region is far worse and they still managed to defeat Poinciana. However, they did lose to Gateway and Celebration so..... It's between Lake Region and Kathleen record wise. The Red Devils really fell off the map. All their talent is going to George Jenkins, LMAO!
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33 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:
The answer is the same I have said for over 10 years. A promotion and relegation system is the answer to every problem. If a team recruits and dominates a classification, move them up a classification. If a team has trouble fielding a team, move them down.
Do it based on a 4 yrar rolling average of success (MaxPreps Rating), so a team doesn't go from 2A to 8A overnight, only one classification bump per year. Even 1A should have its most dominate team switch with the lowest ranked rural school(regardless of size)
Tell me why this isn't a simpler and easier way to do this. It eliminates concerns about open enrollment/recruiting, because they face other tough teams.
If you want to do it even better, 8A should be 64 teams at max, the rest of the classes of the classes 96.
I agree with everything you said EXCEPT 4 year rolling average to determine promotion/demotion and the number of classes.
I believe reclassification should be done every year as teams and rosters dynamically shift every season and that's as close to real time as one can get. I would also eliminate two classes. Those changes alone would balance a lot of the discrepancies between the haves/have nots and foster greater district/playoff competition. There are large schools that can't beat their way out of wet paper bag and would benefit from being in a lower classification. Using Poinciana as an example, they have been the perennial loser in Osceola county for as long as I can remember. This past season, they lost to a first year program just across the county line. That's bad, and there's really no other way to state that. I'm not picking on Poinciana or Osceola County for that matter. The point is there are Poinciana's in every county in this great state (except Madison of course). Classification based on performance will help mitigate most of these issues.
Just my opinion. However, I'd be happy if the FHSAA implemented any concept of what you've proposed.
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32 minutes ago, badbird said:
to be the head Coach at Coffee High School in Douglas. Good luck Coach Coe and even though Jessee is annoying, you are a good man and I wish you the best of luck.
You could've left out the "annoying" part, LMAO!
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1 hour ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:
My most sincere apologies, can’t believe you caught me over ONE LOSS!
Lol. Lakeland has quite a program!
No apologies necessary. I simply set the record straight as to not do a disservice to STA Alum, players and fans.
Let us not forget Venice 77, Dwyer 14 is the same year the Indians took out Lakeland. We were poised for a repeat but YOU INDIANS had other plans, LOL. Venice has once heck of a program as well and that's just one example. -
6 hours ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:
It takes a really special team to compete with STA in the playoffs. Lakeland is the only team to have beaten them consistently in state championship games or otherwise, in the playoffs. Lakeland holds a 6-1 record against STA in the postseason. SIX WINS over the most storied program in Florida HSFB history. ‘Nuff said.
Close, LOL.
I can't undervalue the wins STA has against the Naughts. Lakeland is 6-2 all time versus STA.
1996 FINALS - Lakeland over STA 40-6 Full game video
1997 Regional Finals - STA over Lakeland in Lakeland 25-22 game highlights
1998 Regional Finals - Lakeland over STA in Ft. Lauderdale 31-27
2004 FINALS - Lakeland over STA 31-7 - Full game video
2005 FINALS - Lakeland over STA 39-10 - Full game video
2006 FINALS - Lakeland over STA 45-42 - Full game video
2008 FINALS - STA over Lakeland 56-7 - Highlights video 1 | Highlights video 2
2018 FINALS - Lakeland over STA 33-20 - Full game video -
On 2/19/2022 at 8:10 PM, Ray Icaza said:
Wouldn't be surprised if it were with the Lakeland duo as the enrollment numbers are similar. Last couple of years we were just barely over the 7A threshold and got bumped to 8A. Obviously, the nearby Metro schools that they moved us to won't be in the cards. Plus a good number of our Regional opponents came from the Hillsborough/Sarasota area and that is out. Very good question.
Like the mid 2000's, lol. Come on back Osceola. That was a fun district.
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1 hour ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:
Jon is only right about one thing. Why dont the suburb schools who do not like the FHSAA just opt out and leave to form their own association like some Miami schools did the Covid year. Problem solved without blowing up who system.
Because the FHSAA has a history placating the few despite the many.
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. The article was funny.
However, it highlights one very important point. That plan is horrible.
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2 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:
Think maybe I missed your point. Would have been better to use Pahokee or Glades Central repping the small schools??
Your school selection was fine. That was more so for how hard Jesse reps Madison and how that statement would draw him out, which it did, LOL.
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4 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:
Enrollment is not the factor you seem to think, but the privates that get the top players is. Our school is probably 60%+ Puerto Rican now and that has been the driver of size yet very few of them are football players. Kissimmee has the second largest PR population in the entire nation only trailing New York City. When you factor that in we are consistently playing schools much larger. In the 60s when I attended we were in the Ridge Conference playing smaller schools in Polk county before moving us to the Orange Belt conference playing larger Metro schools. In our perspective, those larger schools weren't as good or as tough as small schools like Ft. Meade, Frostproof, Mulberry, Avon Park, Haines City, etc.. Madison County is another good example; my guess is they would beat the vast majority of 6A, 7A and 8A schools in our state and there are other excellent small schools like them. I said I am not advocating for the change, so who is fighting. If it remains the same, we will continue trying to produce good football teams and not lose sleep over it.
Why Ray, why? LOL
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3 hours ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:
Last year was an incredible game. If Cocoa and Osceola play again, I expect nothing less than a game like last year’s showdown. It sounds like Osceola has a strong foundation returning; off to a great start already to remain in contention for a chance at the 8A title.
Can't wait to see what new suburban class Osceola will be in.
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18 hours ago, skyway said:
Pretty typical these days. Have to see what the transfer situation is, and we often won't know until August! On paper, Lakeland has a ton back, and has added Ridge QB, who's thrown for over 4,000 yards in his career. But they need some OLs. Looks like Lake Gibson is starting to load up on transfers, too. They may not drop off quite as far as assumed earlier.
By 2027, LG will be the premier program with Lakeland in 2nd. That's assuming Coach Castle doesn't retire before then or is forced out like Hazel Haley or if a pedigreed replacement coach would have the same "support" that CC has. The scraps will go to K-leen, GJ and Tenoroc.
All good things must come to an end...
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14 minutes ago, Jesse said:
Yeah without transfer and recurits, Madison would be king with them
Either way, no one is checkin' for Madison primarily because of their current classification and overall resume' against teams they should be defeating. Didn't Madison just "Slide" by Hawthorne?
Promotion/Relegation
in The Huddle
Posted
Football is the flagship sport, followed by basketball, baseball and soccer and the last 3 are interchangeable depending on what a school is best at. Sadly, the lack pf publicity plays into that. It just goes to show what people are willing to complain about and what they let slide.