Ray Icaza
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Posts posted by Ray Icaza
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3 hours ago, nolebull813 said:
What did he say specifically? That football players were being admitted via the scholarship feature that average joes can’t attain? The laws have changed and ANYONE in the state of Florida can apply to go to a private school. So maybe football players are given extra help with their application process. That wouldn’t mean other kids can’t apply. The scholarships are all done through the state. If the school wants to admit kids in a priority of how they can benefit the school I don’t see an issue with it. Private schools rely on money. Public schools just get millions of dollars thrown at it regardless of how incompetent or safe the school is. So I’m still not seeing the problem with kids wanting to get a better education coming from public schools that could be failing them.
Flawed reasons you sight for leaving when you look at the two players we lost. They both played at OHS their freshmen and sophomore seasons with significant varsity playing time as sophomores and were projected starters for next season. Our school is not "FAILING THEM" academically, athletically or any other measure as we sent about a dozen seniors from the 2023 class to further their education thru football. This list included 5 going to D1 schools like Florida, FSU, UCF, Oklahoma and Rutgers. I ask you specifically like you ask others to tell me exactly why they left since I just debunked your stated reasons. The answer is you have no idea but turning a blind eye to the "Possibility" of rule breaking is wrong. By the way, losing those 2 will not ruin our upcoming season as we have others capable of stepping up in their place and so my concern isn't that.
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On 4/15/2024 at 8:32 PM, THAT S--T WAS FUNNY said:
Or maybe he left because he values his integrity.
Thank you and that integrity included his wife that happened to be the principal at said school also deciding to leave.
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On 4/6/2024 at 10:51 PM, KeemD321 said:
Only thing I know is that they basically have Leesburg HC from this past season as an assistant/co-HC and made it to where it was a package deal with him and his staff from Leesburg to come over with him. And apparently they were allotted a tremendous amount of funds for athletics.
Sentinel sportswriter JC Carnahan wrote an article on April 8th on this subject matter. It clearly states that the FHSAA is definitely investigating "Allegations" against The First Academy for rules violations by its football program and even points out their winning varsity baseball HC (Groves) has recently resigned because he doesn't want the rule breaking that is blatantly happening at that school will reflect negatively on him. He has expressed his frustration with the school administrators to no avail. It will be interesting to see how this plays out as the transfers they have gotten include the following schools: Boone, Timber Creek, Leesburg, Lake Minneola and my school Osceola. The two players we lost left for inexplicable reasons and were both sophomores that would be projected starters next year. Something Smells!!!
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4 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:
You have a point here on how much more community support helps pay coaches well in other nearby states. There was a reason APK legend Darlington ended up in Alabama. These schools have been around for a long time and everyone went to the school and have ties to it. Most of Florida schools are new and pop up due to north migration to the south and the new families have no ties to the school or community. The whole blaming teacher unions for lack of pay is a clown argument made by others on this board. The union have zero influence or power in Florida pay, curriculum, or policy. It is run 100% by Governor and state legislature. Even when they gave a teacher raise, 85% went to new to new teachers. The state will continue to bleed any experienced teachers as long as they treat them like crap financially. They will come here, get experience and leave.
Never blamed teacher unions for lack of coaches pay, simply quoted articles written by others regarding the specific effort currently under way to raise their "Minimum Wage". Those articles speculated that teachers would oppose raises without them being first in line. My position with unions in any public/government employment is crystal clear, so the clown is the one spinning it to fit his narrative.
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1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:
I haven’t heard anything. This does seem way more than they can handle. Since the schedule has been out for a while, I feel like you would’ve heard something if they were stacking talent faster than anyone else. The Coach is from Arkansas, and when he came to Florida to play a game years back, he found the worst team he can find. So it’s ironic now he wants to play one of the toughest schedules in the state. Lol
No doubt they are working to "GET" kids to transfer in as we lost a couple of very good players to them in the last couple of months. The change came when they brought the 1 year HC down from Leesburg where he put them on the map and into the playoffs somehow managing to "GET" players from some of the surrounding schools. No doubt it is happening.
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16 hours ago, Drogo said:
Did I read that article correctly where it said states we are losing teachers/coaches to (AKA.... GA, AL, TX, SC, etc.) don't allow "Collective Bargaining" (AKA.... unions) for public employees? Even some of those states pay plan is based on "MERIT" (AKA... winning) for coaches?
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1 hour ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:
You missed the point of my union post. Teacher unions in strong union states have power. Florida unions have zero. They cant strike and the school board can implement a contract without the unions approval. Florida unions are not preventing any raise in Florida. The state has attacked a straw man here.
Are you still talking to me?? Thought I was pretty clear for you not to waste your breath on this subject matter, but somehow you are missing the point. Teacher unions have limited power in FL because the candidates they overwhelming support keep losing. If they had won, the teacher union vote had a lot to do with it and would be wielding that power. Osceola county which isn't a GOP stronghold during the past two national elections had the journalism students for the OHS monthly newsletter (Kowboy Jake) interview the faculty as to their political leanings. A sample of about 30 teachers that were interviewed were voting as follows: 25 D vs 5 R. Enough said.
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7 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:
Curious, but do you support police and fire unions, or is your disdain only for teachers union?
As a general rule, I am not a big supporter of unions in the public sector in particular. They certainly had a place in the private sector during the industrialization of our nation, but today not so much. I have no first-hand experience with unions representing our local law enforcement or firefighters but my interaction with the teachers union over several years in that profession is the basis of my opinion.
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4 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:
Brutal schedule. At least the district games are easy.
As usual, expectations are high so look forward to see how we navigate this season as we do return many excellent pieces. As others have stated, the transfer bug goes both ways and here again this year it appears we are losing more than we are gaining as a handful of top line players have chosen to leave. Some are understandable with lots of talent but not breaking into the starting or lead role. Others are inexplicable, so will have to see what the summer brings after Spring Football. GO KOWBOYS!!
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OSCEOLA KOWBOY FOOTBALL SCHEDULE
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5 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:
Teacher unions are just like any large organization. They have positives and negatives. The negatives is obvious, they protect horrible workers and resist any kind of real change. However, strong union teacher union states get paid much more than Florida and usually have less students per teacher. Any talk of Florida teacher unions doing anything is a joke. They have zero power. Roughly 60% of teachers are even in the unions in Florida and the number is dropping because they really cant protect workers when everyone is on a yearly contract. The only teachers who have a continuing contract are teachers who have been teaching in same district since 2008 and were already on continuing contract when 2010 law passed. The only thing teacher unions do now is negotiate contract and the school boards can refuse to really pass a contract and implement their own contract after the impasse and mediation fails. Throw in the new state laws decertifying teachers unions when they fall below 50% membership and the removal of taking dues out of checks and the days of any teacher unions are numbered. Of course the new state union laws don't apply to police and firemen because they are political friends of the hacks in Tally and no wonder teachers cant run away from state fast enough once they have experience.
BINGO!! So one can extrapolate from your argument that teachers unions are not "Political Friends of the Hacks" in Tally. Rather they are political friends of the hacks trying to replace them there. Finally agree on something and best to leave it there as I am not trying to convince you to change your opinion while at the same time your explanations are falling on deaf ears. Mostly because I trust my EYES more so than my EARS.
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10 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:
Teachers' unions should be vehemently opposed until if/when they demonstrate that their purpose is to benefit and push forward education. Has any teachers' union pushed back against the sort of bullshit pushed by, for example, the Chicago teacher's union? CTA said that the push to reopen schools was an example of white supremacy. If you can't call that out for the complete and utter bullshit that it is, you deserve to be opposed. (For the record, I left my union this school year).
Even back in the mid 70's when they took hold in our county I resisted joining due to the political nature of the organization rather than as you rightly point out the lack of focus on the betterment of the students.
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12 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/graphics/2024/03/19/teacher-shortage-crisis-explained/72958393007/
1st) Florida is a right to work to state, unions (most importantly for this conversation the Florida Education Association) have very little power. If they have so little power, what in the world are they controlling? I can give you countless examples of how the unions have done everything they could to try and stop bad educational/teacher policy, but still failed. And despite having little success, I can also point out to where the state legislature consistently only targets teachers' unions, where the exact same logic of their anti-union laws should apply to police, fire, and correction officer unions, but somehow they are always exempted.
2) Florida has more vacancies than any other state (see article). So yes, when the choice is raising pay for the special education teacher (which we lack) or the head football coach, I am going to continually say the special education teacher, this is basic business sense. If you get a qualified engineer for your business, you raise the pay until you get one. When certain people complain that government isn't run like a business, why is this not part of the conversation?
3) I am posting on a high school football site, I often post the openings/hirings of positions, and have numerous times posted the salaries of all coaches throughout Florida. I understand the value of a coach/club sponsor more than you can ever understand, but I also can understand that given the choice of putting the extra money towards a coach vs the math teacher, I would prefer the math teacher, because schools require math, not sports, despite the very important soft skills that extracurricular activities develop.I as well as the majority of parents are happy our state legislature isn't pushed around by unions like other states otherwise our school aged kids wouldn't have even been back in the classroom for almost an entire year. So you have a right to bash our lawmakers while I have the right to cheer them on.
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On 3/17/2024 at 6:32 PM, gatorman-uf said:
Unions want their members compensated. Districts are slow to compensate teachers and coaches, period. Because ultimately coaches/sponsors are extracurriculars, and not the primary focus of the district despite what some on this board would have you believe. Make it easy, ask your local principal how many teaching openings they have this year in their faculty, ask how much turnover will exist in their ranks this summer, and when they replace them, how many will be highly qualified teachers. Ask the AD how many of their coaches are not highly qualified. The problem from the district and unions' perspective is that there isn't a coaching shortage, somebody always wants to be a coach, but few want to be a math teacher or special education and have their career tied to a test that they have no control over. So just like in the business world, you should pay more to get a person to do the job if nobody is willing to do it.
Now if you want to blame the unions, blame them and the districts for not being flexible in salaries for areas of critical needs/shortages. Despite their being a shortage, it isn't a universal shortage. Florida isn't struggling for social studies teachers, PE teachers, or elementary teachers, but secondary math, science, english, special ed (all levels), and world languages. Unions/districts have been reluctant to give extra pay to those subjects to entice people to enter the field, but notice, PE teacher isn't on that list.__________________
To give an idea of what will happen, let's use Madison County (since they were mentioned in an above post).
Madison County has 30 head coaches and JV/assistant coaches (including cheerleading). The total amount of salaries that they put to those positions is %66,706. Madison County had a budget of $24 million, so .27% of their total budget. If the proposed bill passes, Madison County would spend 322,500, which represents 1.34% of their budget, about 4.8 times more than current. Now, if the state legislature would simple just add the $260,000 onto the budget, the unions wouldn't care other than making sure that all assistant/jv/and non mentioned coaches from the PB Post article are included. But that isn't what will happen, instead it will be a specific line in the budget from the state legislature, similar to technology or textbooks, money will be required to be spent on the salaries and the state will offer no additional funding (or they will only do it for 2 or 3 years, and when there are new priorities, they will still require it but provide no funding for it). Now, if they offer no additional funding, what happens is that money comes from somewhere in the budget. Considering that that this be part of "teacher salaries", that means it will be pulled from general instructional salaries portion of the budget, which means less money for teachers. So yes, teachers will be upset when the state legislature yet again promises something and then underdelivers (see making the starting salary $47,500).Unions aren't about the teachers and working tirelessly for their compensation but most importantly the dues they collect, control and power, just my own opinion. Extracurricular activities whether band, athletics, debate teams, etc.. have a profound impact on the overall development of students thru relationship building, discipline, work ethic and other traits not learned in the classroom and should be compensated as such. Here is a quote I recently saw posted by our HC (football and track) on his FB page who by the way doesn't fit neatly in your PE example as he teaches Special ED but helps support the idea of that value.
HIGH SCHOOLS?
*Miss a homework assignment? Late is okey.
*Fail a test? Just retake it.
*Tardy to class? Here is a warning.
*Playing on your phone in class? Just put it away.
*Didn't make the deadline? It was extended.
*Actually get an F? Have your parent call in to take care of it.
HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL:
*Out of shape from not training? Everybody sees it on the field, IF you get on the field.
*Don't know your assignment? Everybody sees the defender fly by you and blow up the play.
*Fumble the ball? Instant feedback from everybody and it is often a bit harsh.
The high school football field sheds light on the "real" world in so many ways that the general high school experience does not. "Talking the Talk" does not work out there. You must "Walk the Walk" or get punched in the mouth.
I LOVE HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL
These were his words not mine.
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2 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:
Florida education teacher shortage will continue to worsen for the following reasons: More people moving into state means it needs more teacher, pay raises are nonexistent so while the starting salary is solid.....the yearly raises are lousy, high cost of living, and idiotic political stunt laws by state leaders for political purposes that make showing videos and reading certain books illegal and punishable up to 10k. The state leaders already have given teacher certification to unqualified people from military and police and their spouses to no avail as a solution. so expect the next step to be giving certification to students after 2 years of college and pay them less then teachers as interns but they will do actual teaching by themselves. The state education system will become even more of a joke than now with all its stupid political theatre education laws in the name of PARENTS Rights.
Hope all your innuendo doesn't imply this is a FLORIDA problem, as everything I read says it is a nationwide problem.
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On 3/12/2024 at 9:11 PM, Longtime Observer said:
While I acknowledge that students can often tell who the good, bad and average teachers are, I don't think it's feasible (or even a good idea!) to base teacher pay on a poll of students. Many students may well give a reasonable and accurate review of their teachers, but some may be less than reasonable or honest. Teachers who bribe their kids are going to fare the best often.
And so if that's out, you're back to test scores. I'm a believer in tests and data analysis! But, again, there are myriad factors which can affect not only overall scores, but also rates of improvement/decline that are out of control of the teachers. The problem is there's no shortage in students sitting in classrooms they do not want to be in. Teaching is one of the only -if not the only- professions where the job rating of professionals is based on the performance of children who often resent being there in the first place.
All I said is that anyone claiming the evaluation of teachers is *easy* is revealing their ignorance. It may be possible, but it is not easy or simple.
Just to be clear, no one was suggesting to base teachers pay on a poll of students. To think that would be "Simple-minded" as you previously suggested. It was simply an observation on the fact that they have that ability to discern, yet the administrator responsible and being compensated for their performance can't or won't. Seems like an oxymoron to me as does the fact most school districts somehow manage to figure out among the thousands of teachers and dozens of separate schools who the "Teacher of the Year" is. The criteria used in this selection process could be used to rate teachers on a three-tier system of above average, average and below average with corresponding compensation. One can come up with all kinds of reasons why it won't work, but it really boils down to the union and teachers themselves. With regards to the coaches pay, I recently read another article in the Orlando Sentinel written by sportswriter Chris Hays that this proposal isn't being considered in this years legislative agenda but not until next year. He does accurately point out that one of the biggest obstacles to overcome is the teachers themselves not wanting to have said coaches compensated properly for the extra work. He states that they would revolt. Sad when you think about it as for years I sit in the stands to many athletic events for OHS and rarely see teachers there to support one of their students or even their school at these activities. Seems like at too many schools whatever we are doing today certainly isn't working.
- h8r and Longtime Observer
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20 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:
Confession: I have no idea where/when/how a post qualifies as breaking rules on politics. It seems that each and every post in this thread could be considered political.
BUT, clearly, all that's being discussed is very much tied into high school football in the state. Like it or not, there are many ways in which politics and major issues affecting realms, often not considered political, overlap.
It's extremely difficult to fairly and accurately quantify "merit" for teachers. So much so that, the more certain one is that the process could be easy, the more certain we can be that they have no idea what they're talking about. That's not to say we shouldn't hold teachers to high standards. But, the job is hard enough, often for reasons completely out of the teacher's control, that finding enough teachers to run enough schools to educate all of the kids is itself a major challenge.
When I attended school back in the mid 60's as a student we knew who were good teachers and who weren't. When I taught from '74 to '81 that was still true as even the faculty themselves knew. I believe that to be true today (as I have worked as a Sub in recent years) with the only difference I have observed with the passage of time is a higher percentage fall into the lower tier. As a sub, you can generally get a feel how well a classroom is managed as you fill in for those 6 or 7 periods throughout the day. No one is claiming the process would be easy, but I harken back to my childhood as JFK famously told us we were going to the moon, not because it was easy but because it was hard. We can respectfully disagree whether this can be done, but that disagreement doesn't merit your claim someone doesn't know what they are talking about. The fact remains that the job performance in every metric as a nation in K-12 has fallen steadily over decades despite the amount we spend per child compared to other countries. Nothing in my posts on this thread has anything to do with politics, simply wanting just pay for coaches and what they do as well as a way to keep high performing teachers.
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57 minutes ago, Dr. D said:
The same argument for teachers/coaches can be made for nurses, law enforcement, and other first responders, etc. None of them are paid what they are "worth". From an economic standpoint, no one would willingly pay someone more to do a job when someone will do the same job for less (i.e. supply and demand). As long as enough people are willing to work for current wages in these fields, in many cases out of the goodness of their heart or at significant personal financial sacrifice, the government and corporations see no need to raise wages. Unfortunately, the nonmonetary, societal benefit that individuals in these fields provide is often not recognized (coming from the spouse of a 35+ year educator). When we wake up one day and have a drastic shortage of workers in these fields, our society will be in big trouble, let alone high school football.
Too bad we can't find a way to install a merit based system into these type of municipal/state employees pay plan as some teachers should be making six figures while sadly others are overpaid; same disparity is evident in firefighters, law enforcement, etc... regarding job performance. The private sector as a general rule is merit based and while I believed the same could be done at school, most administrators had the same lame excuse. It was too subjective to determine good teachers from bad, yet the students can tell you but the administrator can not? ..... PITIFULL!! Earlier comments about starting teachers pay in FL getting a bump is correct as they earn more than those in adjoining states, but the pay is pretty much the same at 15 and 30 years for FL, GA, AL, SC, etc... Coaching stipends is a whole nother issue when compared with other states. This pretty much sums up why I left the teaching/coaching profession after 7 years and joined the private sector. Merit (job performance) should mean something.
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21 minutes ago, h8r said:
underpaid teachers, underpaid coaches, why in the world would this pass?
anyone want to make some extra money, start a high school coaches moving company. get a couple uhual trucks and make a ton of money driving to georgia weekly.
will be interesting to see if this thing were to pass,
Definitely needs to pass. The truth is all around us.
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6 hours ago, Perspective said:
Interesting. I look foward to hearing "the rest of the story" at some point in the future.
Unfortunately, Paul Harvey nor his ilk are no longer with us.
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2 hours ago, Perspective said:
I just don't see you can reconcile NIL, on the one hand, and recruiting, on the other hand, in high school sports.
Colleges are allowed to recruit. It's a major part of whether a team/coach is successful. And once a school has signaled its intent to recruit a particular player, the collective affiliated with that particular college or university can then step in and try to negotiate a NIL deal with the player being recruited. Somewhat oversimplified, but I think that's accurate.
High schools are not allowed to recruit. If anyone associated with a school (coach, parent, booster, etc.) offers/promises to do anything for a prospective transfer student to lure that student to their school, that's recruiting. And, as the rules are currently written, that's illegal. Similarly, if anyone (most likely a parent or booster) does anything for a particular player that isn't done for all other students, that's considered to be an impermissible benefit. And that's also illegal.
So, how do you re-write the rules to allow NIL without removing the "no recruiting" and "no impermissible benefits" sections of the rules? Almost by definition, anyone that forms a collective or who personally signs someone to an NIL deal would be considered "a representative of the school’s athletic interests." If you re-write all these rules to allow NIL, what will you be left with?
MORE CHAOS!!
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3 minutes ago, Perspective said:
Tremendous travesty without a doubt. I spoke about this possibility a couple of years ago when I initially joined this forum and sadly it is coming to fruition and I was hoping so much to be wrong.
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12 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:
So we can agree that in the current Florida High School football world that a team has to recruit in order to compete at the highest levels right. Than why not place all the recruiting super power teams in same classification or open division and let them play similar teams. Its not fair for a super team to play non-super teams and using enrollment number does not reflect a teams recruiting ability. This is reason why i support promotion and demotion model but am fine with a large 32-36 team open division.
If you are so confident in your belief that there are 32-36 teams that actively cheat and therefore are all capable of winning an open division please help me out and name them.
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30 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:
Their starting QB, Ryan Browne, was the QB for Sarasota Riverview the previous season. Top WR #3 (Hayes) was a top player for Riverview in 2020 as well. That's all that comes to mind without looking.
You have to go back to 2018 to find a Venice team whose QB didn't transfer from another school.
You gotta admit, they have figured out that the QB is the lynchpin for a championship run.
Bad Press Is Good Press...Right?
in The Huddle
Posted
Thanks for admitting that you do not know why they transferred or the several others that mysteriously transferred to that school (not a known powerhouse). Thanks for also agreeing you specifically have to ask all the kids that left for seemingly inexplicable reasons why. That happened as a matter of fact which raises suspicion thus the launch of an investigation by the FHSAA who hopefully will ask YOUR question as well as many more to get to the bottom of it. Any fair-minded person should readily support this investigation. If you don't support and admitted you don't know the facts, you are basically guilty of what some are accusing you of. I would hope you would like to know the TRUTH as opposed to simply attacking the messengers.