Jambun82
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Posts
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Posts posted by Jambun82
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9 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:
I don't think @Jambun82 trolls. To me he's just a strange individual. I must confess, I really don't know how to read him, but would not want him to be part of the crew officiating an Apopka game.
I have been to Apopka High School once. It is a very nice school, not like West Orange, but then again that is the gold standard for schools in Orange County. I look forward to going back one day. Thank you for the very nice compliments DarterBlue2, and will you admit that Algebra is completely worthless?
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52 minutes ago, PinellasFB said:
Of course it is. You really need calculus, differential equations and statistics to model anything in the real world.
Thank you for the clarification.
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3 hours ago, PinellasFB said:
Not sure what you mean here lol? Is it worthless in evaluating this formula? If it's statistical based, then yes algebra is not enough to understand the formula.
Algebra is completely worthless, correct?
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14 hours ago, PinellasFB said:
I'm a mathematician (masters in applied mathematics) and until the formula is revealed, it can be anything. A true power index is typically a weighted formula that heavily leans on last years results for the early rankings but these weights effectively go to zero as the season nears the end and there are enough teams that have played each other to have statistical relevance for the current year. Probably the single biggest measure of power is margin of victory/loss so the FHSAA has really gimped the formula by removing this from the calculation, thus becoming full "elo chess" ranking. Elo chess ranking works for chess players because there are thousands and thousands of matches where the binary win or loss result becomes statistically relevant. This does not work well for football because of how few games a season has. From my observation of last year, a tough district/region is over-rewarded whereas a powerful team from a weak region is severely penalized. In the end, the most powerful teams generally made the final four so most of the complaint is leaving out deserving teams and taking too many teams from a single district.
Algebra is completely worthless, correct?
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56 minutes ago, JDHoss said:
Western
Oh all right. Nowhere near Clarksville or South Boston on the Virginia/North Carolina border.
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I told this message board what would happen, and I was right as I usually am. This officiating crew was held accountable by being suspended, and the Cocoa AD and Head Coach were given the apology that they deserved. The Tigers were not allotted the victory that they earned and deserved, but this was the best outcome under the rules and the circumstances. I wish that the underlying problems and issues that a situation like this exposes into the open could be discussed, but it cannot be on this message board. Hopefully, this never happens again.
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4 hours ago, KeemD321 said:
Looks like some investigation work is being done by reporters lol
This a very interesting article.
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1 minute ago, DarterBlue2 said:
The inability, as reflected in the rules, to appeal flagrant mistakes made by an officiating crew, as cited earlier in this thread. Obviously, overturning the results of a game should only occur in very rare circumstances. And, and a rule allowing for an appeal could be couched in language reflecting the fact that frivolous appeals shall result in some kind of meaningful penalty on the appellant. However, to have no right at all to appeal, smacks of the days of Kings and Emperors.
You may feel comfortable in that kind of society. But I don't.
Well, you better find some kind of comfort because there is no chance of that rule and standard ever being changed.
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5 hours ago, Airek said:
1) Clock operator does not act independently, only with direction from on-field officials. They're looking for exactly what you described, the 'stop clock' signal or 'wind clock' symbol.
2) For a dead ball, the white hat signals the restart of the clock. They'll do this as part of the ready for play signal or when appropriate.
3) I think most clips skipped the signal, but either way, it would be a 15-yard dead ball penalty. Not an automatic first down or enough yardage for a first down. I have a feeling there was a communication breakdown with the down marker, but nothing 'wrong' there.
4) See above. Remember the chain gang are home team volunteers and could have been getting conflicting info from a variety of sources. It is officials job to ensure it is correct.
5) 100% the clock should have been running. In the Cocoa/STA game, if you look on that second down play, the referee signals ready for play, but never continues the action to start the clock. That was VERY wrong. Clock should have been started before the ready for play actually. If you don't do that, then every defense will just go headhunting for a penalty. The normal you'll see is signaling the penalty and then winding the clock right then, followed by shortly after giving the 'ready for play' signal which starts the play clock. They gave an advantage and incentive to the defense to get a penalty, which paid off with an undeserved victory. It is 100% officials job to ensure this DOESN'T happen and they didn't. When I've seen similar in nearly same situations, ref wound the clock after announcing penalty, which hurt defense further, as it should, because otherwise you encourage dangerous, penalty-seeking play.
6) Never trust anything on the scoreboard besides the clock. Everything else on the scoreboard is optional to put in, and often is done by a home-team volunteer, a.k.a. unofficial. When you want to know timeouts, ask the official, they will tell you. I can guarantee someone on Cocoa sideline looked at scoreboard, but I can also guarantee you someone asked the official. Either way, the timeout shouldn't have mattered and was factored into the kneel-down decision.
Also, the 12 men on the field... STA lined up with 14, one ran off quickly, the 13th was possibly off, but real close and I doubt there's a definitive view of on/off out there, but the 12... GOOD LORD. They did the whole play with 12, not one running off and close but literally 12 on the field. You can watch the replay of that and Cocoa HC twitter shot to see it clear as day. That's illegal participation, which while it wouldn't have been a first down, it would have been a replay of 4th with a winding clock, therefore Cocoa win.
In the end, where this really comes into play is the final rankings and what seeding Cocoa gets in the playoffs. Will they miss a home playoff game or two because of this? That's money for the program/school, prestige, community, etc. that they could miss out on when they earned the win. No matter what FHSAA says, Cocoa won that fair & square and should be counted as having the win. At the end of the season, we may revisit this depending on seeding. I hope Cocoa isn't hurt by this and it just motivates them further.
Thank you for posting this, and all of your valid points. I have a feeling that you are a member of a certain elite "fraternity" that many posters to this message board know nothing about and are not qualified to comment on.
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5 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:
The rule needs to be changed. It is totally undemocratic.
What do you feel in the rule book needs to be changed?
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12 hours ago, VeniceIndianFan said:
Ok, thank you. My education continues and I appreciate your lessons and teaching.
You are very welcome! I appreciate the gratitude that you show to the Education, lessons, and teaching that you, and every other message board poster, receives from me.
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1 hour ago, Perspective said:
Apparently, someone had one of those TV satellite dish microphones on the sidelines and picked up this conversation between the referee, the side judge and the back judge immediately after the Cocoa punt:
Ref (looking at the Back Judge): "OK, whatcha got?"
Back Judge: "I got 12 men on the field against the defense."
Side Judge: "Well, I was standing over on the Aquinas sideline and I think Number 16 got off the field just before the snap."
Back Judge: "Well, I counted 12 guys in blue even if Number 16 got off in time."
Side Judge: "I just don't know about that. Are you sure?"
Back Judge: "Um, yeah, I can count to 12."
Ref: "Who's signing our checks for this game?"
***crickets***
Ref picks up the yellow flag and waves off the penalty.
[The previous account is a work of fiction and any resemblance to any persons or events is purely coincidental.]
Your whole message board posting career is a work of fiction.
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1 hour ago, Perspective said:
The final sentence of that article tells you why Cocoa is f*cked: "Now their fate will be in the hands of the FHSAA."
The FHSAA does not have the authority to overturn the final results of a high school football game per NFHS rules. How many times do I have to type this before it gets though?
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12 hours ago, THAT S--T WAS FUNNY said:
So weird
Thank you for another great compliment!
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6 minutes ago, Dr. D said:
Further, 10.3.2 Protesting Actions of Contest Officials. The decisions of contest officials shall be final and not subject to review. Member schools should file reports with the Executive Director of unsatisfactory performance by contest officials which may be due to alleged lack of knowledge of the rules, errors in judgment or improper conduct. (good luck with that!)
You are correct on both of your posts. The game cannot be overturned, but the FHSAA can take other actions. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions, there are no excuses. (If it is determined this is really what happened in this game.)
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3 hours ago, VeniceIndianFan said:
Hope the FHSAA overturns this game and forces STA to forfeit. But we all know they won’t because they are lazy and frankly, don’t care. It’s a sick world.
The FHSAA cannot overturn the result of a game by NFHS rule.
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4 hours ago, KeemD321 said:
What do y'all think will happen.....the typical FHSAA response, officials going through extra training, or results being reversed? @nolebull813 @Cat_Scratch2 @VeniceIndianFan @DarterBlue2 @Jambun82 @Ray Icaza @DILLARD_HIGH_PANTHERS @Vero Indian
I don't believe that a game can be overturned on appeal. The Rule Book clearly states that a Referee's decision is final and protests of rulings by officials afterword are not recognized.
- muckboy561 and KeemD321
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4 hours ago, Cat_Scratch2 said:
Thanks man. I've seen some of the love the board is giving you. You know how it is... always the Refs fault, same as an umpire in baseball.
My computer was hacked. Just now getting back on the boards with new accounts.
Anyway, just so you know, I appreciate the refs even when the calls are iffy, it's not always easy and sports would be brawls if there were no umpires.
This is the most fun that I have ever had on any message board, I love all of the great compliments that I receive from the likes of DarterBlue2, Cribboy305, That Crap Was Funny, Longtime Observer, Trelle, and ExplorerHomer2, among others. These posters all know the truth deep down, something that Dan in Daytona and Perspective have known for many years, what a great honor and privilege it is for all of them to speak to, hear from, and learn from me!
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15 hours ago, KeemD321 said:
Here's video proof of the whole sequence and a pic from the Hudl sideline vid of STA with 12 players on the field during Cocoa's punt where the flag was waved off. @Jambun82 honest opinion on this sequence. Do you feel like everyone is wrong about the refs during this sequence?
Yes, I counted 12 STA players as well.
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16 hours ago, KeemD321 said:
For anyone who hasn't seen any reports of the game. Here ya go @Jambun82 what you wanted explained is here. Basically everything that was already specified in this thread by multiple people here and all over reports by multiple sports writers in attendance.
Thank you.
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19 hours ago, Cat_Scratch2 said:
Yep... If nothing else, I bet STA thinks twice about Cocoa the next time they play. If the refs took the game away from Cocoa then that's on the ref's. If the ref's screwed this up then Jambun will get to the bottom of it, right jambun.
Where have you been Cat_Scratch2? I am glad that you are still posting to this message board, it was a little concerned for a while. You are one of the "good" people on this message board.
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20 hours ago, Dan in Daytona said:
It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.
( "Bananas" Woody Allen )
Calm down, Senior Citizen.
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23 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:
I have this feeling that all of us are going to slam the officials, be pissed off, and say things that get us all banned, except for jambun. This site will just be jambun and Josh.
Well, you are talking about the two most-informed and knowledgeable people posting on this message board, so that might be justified.
Calling all Mathematicians
in The Huddle
Posted
What do kids deserve better?