Floridaatlantic1
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Posts posted by Floridaatlantic1
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1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:
Just to be clear, no one was suggesting to base teachers pay on a poll of students. To think that would be "Simple-minded" as you previously suggested. It was simply an observation on the fact that they have that ability to discern, yet the administrator responsible and being compensated for their performance can't or won't. Seems like an oxymoron to me as does the fact most school districts somehow manage to figure out among the thousands of teachers and dozens of separate schools who the "Teacher of the Year" is. The criteria used in this selection process could be used to rate teachers on a three-tier system of above average, average and below average with corresponding compensation. One can come up with all kinds of reasons why it won't work, but it really boils down to the union and teachers themselves. With regards to the coaches pay, I recently read another article in the Orlando Sentinel written by sportswriter Chris Hayes that this proposal isn't being considered in this years legislative agenda but not until next year. He does accurately point out that one of the biggest obstacles to overcome is the teachers themselves not wanting to have said coaches compensated properly for the extra work. He states that they would revolt. Sad when you think about it as for years I sit in the stands to many athletic events for OHS and rarely see teachers there to support one of their students or even their school at these activities. Seems like at too many schools whatever we are doing today certainly isn't working.
some charter schools do use student poll response to rate teachers. Counts like 5% of overall rating. The current VAM score which equal up to 1/2 of teachers evaluation is a joke. Most teachers get their score based on how student do on ELA and math scores even though the teachers dont teach either subject or grade level.
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10 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:
Not all teachers can get paid evenly over twelve months as it varies by district. Regardless, the salary itself is unchanged.
Let's think this through: Are you suggesting that teachers, with extensive graduate level education, seen as relatively esteemed professionals who may be north of 40 years old, should pursue minimum wage jobs bagging groceries? And, are you suggesting that such "opportunities" are sufficiently abundant as to be available to all, or nearly all, teachers? Why wouldn't the grocery store/restaurant etc hire someone much younger who hasn't promised to leave the job by August?
Sure, it's a decent perk to have summers off. But, life's expenses don't change because of the summer break. And employers are not likely to want to bring on professionals who promise to leave the position come August for at least 10 months.
Teaching is a unique, perhaps odd, profession for which the kinds of solutions that work in most/all other professions simply don't work.
Florida education teacher shortage will continue to worsen for the following reasons: More people moving into state means it needs more teacher, pay raises are nonexistent so while the starting salary is solid.....the yearly raises are lousy, high cost of living, and idiotic political stunt laws by state leaders for political purposes that make showing videos and reading certain books illegal and punishable up to 10k. The state leaders already have given teacher certification to unqualified people from military and police and their spouses to no avail as a solution. so expect the next step to be giving certification to students after 2 years of college and pay them less then teachers as interns but they will do actual teaching by themselves. The state education system will become even more of a joke than now with all its stupid political theatre education laws in the name of PARENTS Rights.
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5 hours ago, nolebull813 said:
I was told by a teacher that there are 180 school days per year and they work about 20 extra days than the kids on average so a teacher works about 200 days per year and are off 165.
Most jobs you get about 2 weeks vacation per year paid. So you work about 50 weeks, 5 days per week for full time. That’s 250 days per year
So teachers on average work about 7 less weeks per year than the average profession.
Most jobs dont require you to take homework home and grade papers and make lessons and then take classes to recertify and then take classes to try to earn a real wage either by getting a masters. Plus alot of teachers coach and get paid very little for alot of work. A assistant fb coach usually gets around 3k for the following work. Spring ball 20 practices and 5 days for conditioning. 4 days a week lifting in summer, 7 on 7 practices and tournament from Jan -April and then in summer again. Practice from august to mid November unless you make a run and go till December. If teaching is such a great pay gig and easy job then why are 1 in 5 teachers leaving the profession or state to teach somewhere else.
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11 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:
Confession: I have no idea where/when/how a post qualifies as breaking rules on politics. It seems that each and every post in this thread could be considered political.
BUT, clearly, all that's being discussed is very much tied into high school football in the state. Like it or not, there are many ways in which politics and major issues affecting realms, often not considered political, overlap.
It's extremely difficult to fairly and accurately quantify "merit" for teachers. So much so that, the more certain one is that the process could be easy, the more certain we can be that they have no idea what they're talking about. That's not to say we shouldn't hold teachers to high standards. But, the job is hard enough, often for reasons completely out of the teacher's control, that finding enough teachers to run enough schools to educate all of the kids is itself a major challenge.
Your idea sounds great in theory but in practice it never works because we compare apples to oranges. For example, If someone teaches AP Classes in a rich school, the students all get great scores on state tests and AP tests. Compare that person to a standard class in the inner city schools who teach same subject and how do we compare them. Even if its standard to standard and one is at rich school and other poor one. Throw in a Special Ed class and rate those scores. What do you test in electives who dont test anything at all. See the issues. Orange county made a test for a ll classes and it took half the year to tests every kid in every class and was a logistics nightmare.
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18 hours ago, Dr. D said:
The same argument for teachers/coaches can be made for nurses, law enforcement, and other first responders, etc. None of them are paid what they are "worth". From an economic standpoint, no one would willingly pay someone more to do a job when someone will do the same job for less (i.e. supply and demand). As long as enough people are willing to work for current wages in these fields, in many cases out of the goodness of their heart or at significant personal financial sacrifice, the government and corporations see no need to raise wages. Unfortunately, the nonmonetary, societal benefit that individuals in these fields provide is often not recognized (coming from the spouse of a 35+ year educator). When we wake up one day and have a drastic shortage of workers in these fields, our society will be in big trouble, let alone high school football.
The Housing/rent crisis will make these workers leave and the shortage is already here in teaching. Take a look at all the openings each year and how many people teach out of certification fields. Its almost impossible for a new teacher to live in Orlando unless they have room mates or live with parents.
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3 hours ago, h8r said:
im with you on this. i dont think all the school districts are paying the minimum either. school district gets this huge sum of money from state/govt, etc and sit on it to not pay teachers. orange county holds off on their contracts til the end of year and pays all this back pay to everyone so it can get a years worth of interest on millions of dollars. (sister teacher there)
they have the money to pay everyone, BS they dont.....
They raised new teachers so much that they were making more than teacher who had 10 years experience. Any one who can move who is in teaching or coaching filed should run to Georgia, Alabama or SC.
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This bill has zero chance of passing. No way Florida will ever pay teachers and coaches well. State does not give a crap about education so good teachers and coaches leave the state in droves. Dont get me started on the crazy laws about movies, books and what is taught in schools. The last big raise was all for new teachers and gave the veteran teachers squat.
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On 2/17/2024 at 4:36 PM, Tigerskin said:
Nole bull and the rest of South Fl are just like you said scared of IMG because they just have more talent and they acquire it the same way more players to choose from. They’re like a bully pick on the county 100 times smaller but with somebody who has more players to choose don’t let them in.
I think you might as well let IMG in since they recruit like the other state powers do. Let some cheaters get a taste of their own medicine with a few 60-0 blowouts.
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On 2/21/2024 at 8:23 AM, CoachGraham said:
I don't hate this as a concept if you just look at it as just "more football" for kids/coaches/fans.
I personally wouldn't hate having a "B" bracket so long as the winner of said bracket is not considered a state champion...because they're not. But more football isn't a bad thing, it is just all about perspective. You cannot call these teams state champions.
I am concerned this is just a cash grab from the FHSAA though. If they can "prove" that it works in the rural divisions, then they can have more football games at the higher levels of classification and rake in the money....
I would not call any tournament under promotion/demotion model except the top a state champion. Call the rest anything you want. The goal is to provide the vast majority of student athlete's a good experience that help build character for the future and learn teamwork. Its obvious with all the blowouts and the huge distance between the haves and have nots that the current system or even the metro system achieves what is best for the most students. Teams want to have a fighting chance to at least compete in half their games and being a division with similar teams will help. The SAC calling a 3-7 team a state champion is pathetic. But I get why teams are moving to it or forming own associations.
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1 minute ago, Perspective said:
My answer to this question is pretty simple:
If IMG is willing to play by the same rules as all other FHSAA member schools, whatever those rules may be, then, yes, they should be able to compete for a state title.
If IMG is not willing to play by the same rules as all other FHSAA member schools, whatever those rules may be, then, no, they should not be able to complete for a state title.
Funny...RULES. The point is there are no rules because of open enrollment and even when the FHSAA nails someone NOTHING happens most of the time. Let IMG IN LET IMG IN. I guess these great state champs dont want to have to play someone with twice their talent level huh. Sound familiar.
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18 minutes ago, smashmouth80 said:
Should IMG be allowed to compete for a State Title?
Why not according the all the lets keep the current system so my team can pummel teams with have their talent.
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14 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:
You sound butt hurt like your team lost to a team with more talent and better overall at the game of American football
I love being attacked for making reasonable statements. I have had my favorite team get destroyed in the late playoffs by a South Florida all star team and it did suck. However, the motivation for my pushing the promotion and demotion idea is due to the fact that open enrollment has made recruiting necessary to compete at the highest levels and the distance between the cheaters and the non cheaters is getting much worse. Its futile to make some system like competitive balance where we count transfers and depend on the FHSAA to investigate or people to self regulate themselves. Promotion and demotion would get same results and let cheaters play cheaters. The metro suburb people illustrated the point 2 years ago when they showed how horrible the state games have become. The open division would need to be at least 16 teams.
Here who would probably make it up and i might miss a team here or there. in no particular order.
#1. STA #9.Treasure Coast
#2. Columbus #10. Jesuit
#3. Chaminade #11. Edgewater
#4. Lakeland #12. Miami Central
#5. Venice #13. Northwestern
#6. Clearwater Central Cath #14. Aopka
#7. Cocoa #15. Osceola
#8. AHP - Broward #16. Cardinal Gibbons
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On 2/13/2024 at 9:26 PM, Longtime Observer said:
Emotional, knee-jerk reactions won't help matters. Legislation has to be written in objective, preferably measurable terms. I assume you'd classify Lakeland as a "cheater" and not Lake Gibson. So, how are you going to word legislation that establishes this, given the fact that Lake Gibson's leading rusher was a transfer from Lakeland and their leading WR was also a transfer from Lakeland? There were no players who started most every game for Lakeland and had played for Lake Gibson previously. (One player started sometimes but had been at Lakeland two years). The reality there seems to point to Lake Gibson being the "cheater", no?
I know Lakeland is not only team that recruits or cheats. I dont need some investigative team to decide who does and does not cheat. Just take top 15% of teams and promote them each year on a four year basis and demote the bottom 15% and in 5 years, the top division will be all the cheaters and recruiters. Or take top 32 teams in Maxpreps and put them in 8 A and use other divisions by enrollment. Same result. Put teams who are similar in divisions. Only call top division a true state title and the rest are regional enrollment champs . Done deal.
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On 2/9/2024 at 1:12 PM, Ray Icaza said:
Those talking about an "OPEN DIVISION" comprised of 24-32 teams are overlooking reality. As I have previously stated, it is my view that the top 10% FL HS teams (roughly 50 teams) tend to follow the rules with a few exceptions. However, when we zero in on the top 1% (roughly 6-8 teams) of FL HS teams they most certainly "RECRUIT". Thus, I fully agree with your take on an open division comprised of only those 8 teams, as only one of them would win the championship each and every year leaving the other 40 odd excellent programs to continually be second fiddles despite doing everything right. Also fully support having districts comprised of a minimum of 5-6 teams with fewer classifications.
6-8 teams that recruit seems a tad bit low. Come on. That might make up the teams that recruit in Dade and Broward county alone. The real number of football factories that recruit is is closer to 24-32. Take out top 24-32 and let them beat each other up since they disregard the FHSAA rules anyway
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12 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:
It is true that, when the other powers got a lot of transfers while Lakeland could not do this (~2011-2016) Lakeland was good, but not an elite team. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
Pick whatever high school you consider to be a top dawg academically. Are they "Cheaters"? Because I promise you their reputation has led them to attract a highly disproportionate share of motivated, prepared and capable students. Is that "cheating"?
So we can agree that in the current Florida High School football world that a team has to recruit in order to compete at the highest levels right. Than why not place all the recruiting super power teams in same classification or open division and let them play similar teams. Its not fair for a super team to play non-super teams and using enrollment number does not reflect a teams recruiting ability. This is reason why i support promotion and demotion model but am fine with a large 32-36 team open division.
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20 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:
What is often missed in these discussions is the fact that, almost always, players/families CHOOSE to play for the powers. We see families pick up and move to a new area just so their kid can play for a particular program. Or, they willingly commute a further distance to play for a preferred program. This narrative of there being bad guys at a few programs going out and rounding up all the best players through bribes or coercion is silly.
Players seek the best opportunities for themselves, just like they do when they pick a college to play for. No one expects college teams to end up with equal talent. No one sees Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State etc ending up with a disproportionate share of talent and thinks 'Gosh, they HAD to have cheated. How else would they get all those good players?" Those programs have a proven record of success, and players often seek THEM out. For some reason, when it comes to high school, people get up in arms if a handful of programs end up with the best players. They demand an equal share of talent for high schools. This despite the fact that they do NOT think this way when it comes to other areas like academics or the arts. No one begrudges the parents who seek residency in the zone of top academic schools. No one accuses the top academic schools of "cheating" when they end up with a disproportionate share of motivated and/or gifted students. The logical inconsistency is amusing and annoying.
I am sure some kids choose to play for the powers. However, it seems that today, many coaches and players recruit the players from other schools and never get punished for it. You have coaches liking players on social media and not a darn thing happens to them. CHEATERS. Lakeland can play with anybody when they get transfers but when they were limited after probation, they were just another average team. Need an open division with about 36 teams and that would force the powers to beat each other up. Pick on someone their own size.
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They seem to ignore many other offenses by schools. Double standard for sure.
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On 2/7/2024 at 2:40 PM, SportsFan said:
And the current system will never fix that problem or separate a single cheating team from the rest especially if they refuse to pass the open division idea (which I think is very likely)
For once we agree on something. The open division should have passed and it should have been like 32-42 teams large and get all the super all star teams that somehow miraculously form without any RECRUITING/CHEATING at all according to many clowns on this site. FHSAA board caters to a certain elite team who has been busted for cheating many times in a county that rhymes with folk.
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On 2/7/2024 at 11:15 AM, SportsFan said:
Nope in fact the state going back to the old school population system shows they want to REWARD cheating by allowing metro publics who actively cheat and recruit to get easy outmatched rural schools in the finals
But a certain Florida Atlantic dude seems to think Baker County and Miami Central should be in the same classification because they can compete equally because they totally pull from equal numbers and Miami Central totally isn't pulling from a county of 3m people
That would be ridiculous right?
You act like the suburb plan helped tons of schools. Teams like Lake wales who made semi finals before get to win a state title. I dont love the current enrollment model but the suburb idea was not done on the up and up. The population density crap was snuck in to favor a certain polk county team whose representative started this whole mess. The elite model was a start but needed to include the top 32 so all the Miami Centrals and Venices and Chaminaddes could have fun beating each other up since they all recruit. I have been pushing promotion and demotion due to the unfairness of school who cheat and those who play by the rules.
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On 2/7/2024 at 2:20 PM, nolebull813 said:
Post the link of the cheating. If you can’t post the link where they were cheating then you are just pulling stuff out of your a$$.
Players in the state of Florida can transfer to whatever school they desire. It is the decision for the player and their family. It is not my decision or yours. it is not my fault that Chaminade is surrounded by some of the best football talent in the entire Milky Way galaxy. so when players transfer there, just like they do around the entire state, it is going to make a much bigger impact than four or five kids, transferring from one Gainesville team to another.
I posted the winter Park cheating and the fhsaa let all the players play in playoffs. It was obvious cheating by a public school. Recruiting is cheating and illegal and the current rules force coaches to do it or lose. Need to put elite teams who obviously recruit into same divisions so it apples to apples and not David VS Goliath.
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2 hours ago, SportsFan said:
And no I argued the RPI was far better and could have easily been fixed but any system is better than what we had. Metro suburban was certainly better than what we got now but hell you got your wish. Back to the system that gave us state title games that were an average margin of victory over 24+ points
Hope your happy traditionalist because you got what you wanted and now nobody gonna bother watching the games because we will know 4 weeks in advance who's gonna win and probably which games are guaranteed to be running clock
Real great changes by our morons in Tallahassee, so proud of this deadbeat state with incompetent leadership at every phase of the game!
the suburb idea heled a few great teams win state in lower division. It did nothing to solve the recruiting issue in either division.
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2 hours ago, SportsFan said:
So your claiming that public schools don't recruit? And you have the nerve to call me clueless!
I even posted a article of a public school recruiting. I mean any team that recruits. The only way to solve issue is to put all the super teams in same divisions an dlet them pummel each other instead on non super recruiters.
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2 hours ago, SportsFan said:
Nope in fact the state going back to the old school population system shows they want to REWARD cheating by allowing metro publics who actively cheat and recruit to get easy outmatched rural schools in the finals
But a certain Florida Atlantic dude seems to think Baker County and Miami Central should be in the same classification because they can compete equally because they totally pull from equal numbers and Miami Central totally isn't pulling from a county of 3m people
That would be ridiculous right?
I have been screaming for a promotion / demotion plan for last two years. For the exact same reason you stated. I just hated suburb / metro plan that really did not help many people out and punished alot more teams.
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On 2/2/2024 at 3:53 PM, nolebull813 said:
No one is cheating. Every school in the state has the same opportunity to choice in talent. It’s not South Florida’s fault for having way more talent and more concentrated talent. I do agree teams that have zero chance to win a title should secede from the FHSAA and let the real teams compete. But in doing so they need to cut the classes down
So your saying their is no difference between a public 2A school who does not recruit and cheat to Chaminade-Madonna high school football. They all can recruit even though its no legal by FHSAA rules.
will they pay the coaches???
in The Huddle
Posted
Florida teacher shortage is worse than other states due to low pay and super high rent and housing. The state government BS on education videos and content does not help but first two are main reasons coaches leave to go to Georgia and other states.