Hwy17
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Posts posted by Hwy17
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Desoto coach resigned on Wednesday after a 0-10 season.
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19 hours ago, nolebull813 said:
Larger districts minimum. I like 8 teams. That way the runner up should deserve a spot. Unless you had the at large bids
3 hours ago, FSULOVER said:But there will always be things about ANY system people think are unfair. Take the 25 years between 1970-1994. Dade and Broward county teams each only won a handful of state titles during those years despite dwarfing most other counties. Despite their size, the class/playoff structure meant that only one team from a county would make a title game. People thought that was unfair. Many very good teams did not even make the playoffs.
Agree that open enrollment is a huge difference. But so is the mindset of people. If im not making the playoffs or winning, there must be something unfair with the system. Open enrollment itself is not the problem. The problem is the coaches and parents who allow kids to move without consequences like waiting a year before I let you play.
Who on here is familiar with the system used for the 1999 & 2000 seasons? I personally thought it was the best ever yet its been kicked to the curb and nearly forgotten about. Six classes (I would do seven now) with 3 districts per region. That meant districts typically had 5 or more teams. Districts Champions and runners-up automatically got in the playoffs. There were 2 at-large spots that the 2 with the best overall records but not a champ or runner-up got. Strength of schedule was used in event of a tie for the at large sports. Now of course I would probably go with 3 district Champs and 5 at large spots with more imphasis on strength of schedule. But still, that system worked well and produced some interesting playoff matches.
As for open enrollment: It's gotten completely out of control and needs some rules. I personally don't have a problem with a legitimate move into a new school zone. I feel that if a parent or guardian can show proof they moved into a new school zone, their student athlete should be allowed to play no matter what. However if they haven't moved and just decided I want to go somewhere else for whatever reason, then the student athlete should only be allowed to play JV their first season at the new school. I would consider an exception for seniors.
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26 minutes ago, Joshua Wilson said:
The difference between 1989 and 2023 is this: OPEN ENROLLMENT... Yes open enrollment did not exist in 1989. You went to your home school. Hence there is a need to fix classifications now. It is not the same anymore.
The tops teams in the state during that time were small town programs.
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2 hours ago, nolebull813 said:
That’s how it should be now.
What part? Larger districts or only district champion gets in the playoffs?
Playoffs were only 3 rounds. The main reason for expanding the playoffs was because a lot of really good teams were left out so district runner-ups got added in the early 90s. There is certain rival of ours that hates being reminded of the 1988 season.
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On 10/7/2023 at 9:08 AM, FSULOVER said:Thought some of yall might find this interesting. Records of some teams from 1989. Everyone today so worried about equity. Used to have to pay your dues and accept your program might be down years at a time. Now people jumping off the cliff wanting to "fix" the playoff system to make things fair if things not going there way. There was a time when metro schools and privates did not dominate but they didnt bitch.Armwood 0-10Clearwater Central Catholic 2-8Cocoa 2-8Jesuit 4-6Lake Wales 4-6Mainland 0-10Miami Central 4-6Miami Norland 2-8Miami Northwestern 4-6Naples 1-8St Thomas 4-6
I was in 10th grade in 1989 and remember that season like it was yesterday. This was our district and records - 8 team district and only the district champ got to go to the playoffs. We had a 4 way tie that was determined by Kansas City tiebreaker.
Hardee 8-2
Desoto 8-2
Okeechobee 8-2
Avon Park 7-3
Sebring 6-4
Lake Wales 4-6
Haines City 2-8
Mulberry 1-9
Avon Park ended up winning the tiebreaker.
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3 hours ago, Nulli Secundus said:
Thank you! See my post in the thread pertaining to Bartow.
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14 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:
Not just Lakeland but they aren’t playing any good teams from anywhere. The only reason they won a title last year was because the FHSAA went from a state title format to an area title format. Lake Wales was the best of the suburbs.
7 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:That's probably true and they won a nail biter. I bet Dan would argue Mainland was the better team.
Exactly! Lake Wales benefited from the split. Now get this; if the current proposal goes through LW might benefit even more as maxpreps says they are #45 in the state meanwhile Mainland is in the top 32. LW would love that! Mainland, IMHO, gets screwed!
- nolebull813 and DarterBlue2
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7 hours ago, SportsFan said:
My question for you @Hwy17 is this
- One school goes 10-0 and doesn't beat a single team above .500
- One school goes 8-2 facing 6 teams ranked top 25 in Florida and goes 4-2 in those games with both losses coming to teams inside the top 10
- Both have 4 team districts
Can you really make an argument that 10-0 team deserves a higher seeding, I'm not saying them missing the playoffs I'm talking just difference between 1 and 2 seed in regional play? If not how can we justify any school benefits by playing better teams
I don't disagree that in the above scenario that the 8-2 team shouldn't be the higher seed come playoffs. However my observation over the last several years would suggest that a team that plays that tough of a schedule and goes 8-2 most likely has something (a lot of transfers coming in) most other schools don't. Also they are likely one of those teams others avoid. Likewise, the 10-0 team, most likely didn't load up on easy teams for easy wins but rather has a traditional schedule playing neighboring schools that all happen to be lousy. I see it happening a lot. Lake Wales for example gets criticized for playing a "weak" schedule even though a lot of those games are neighboring schools and the understanding that who we play every year.
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9 minutes ago, Nulli Secundus said:
C's get degrees. Do F's?
Under that system it would!
Makes you want to ask your Dr for his transcripts before having surgery
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47 minutes ago, SportsFan said:
If that's not a district game they have no business scheduling them
I'm fine with a system punishing a team for scheduling a bad team they just needed to configure the points where they would get more points for a win than a loss but a team that plays bad teams all year should risk falling behind a team with 1 or 2 loss team who playing state ranked teams every week
And to your point. There really are only a few teams out there that "elite" or dominant every year. Most schools have a few good seasons followed by a down year or two. Likewise, most schools create their schedules for a two year cycle because that's how districts are done. When a school shows they're good most years,(this is especially true in the smaller classes), others don't want to play them. And the weaker teams usually stick to playing other weaker teams until they start winning. This makes for a catch 22. Here's some real examples: Clewiston, not really a weak team but because of past successes they find themselves playing a brutal schedule. North Port, years of being everyone's homecoming game has finally decided to play some teams they can actually win. Good for them! I suspect next season they'll have to schedule a little tougher. Same thing with Lemon Bay. Hardee, (my team) also playing a very weak schedule but as someone else pointed out to me, some of those weak teams had a winning season last year.
The point I'm getting at is this: While a promotion or relegation system sounds good, unless there is some measure to show that a team is vastly superior than the rest of their class I don't believe a team should be forced up because of a couple good years. And those who consistently struggle have the ability to schedule accordingly now. Strength of schedule sounds good but when you schedule a team that had a winning season and now they are winless your stuck.
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On 10/11/2023 at 7:45 AM, nolebull813 said:
So basically it’s better to beat a bunch of duds than lose to powerhouses
12 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:Unquestionably. Let's not forget the impact of winning or losing on a team's psyche. Ditto the impact on fans' perceptions of the program. A school that wins all of its games, and just has a few internet bozos criticizing their strength of schedule, is MUCH better off than one who drops several games albeit against significantly better competition. I'm dead serious when I say that parents and community members (and even many players inside the locker room!) make virtually no distinction between the Armwood Hawks and the St. Joseph's Prep Hawks, or the Lakeland Christian Vikings and the Miami Norland Vikings. The *only* difference they recognize is whether the team won or lost the game. Better to win!
To both of your points, remember back a couple of seasons the system used awarded points based off strength of schedule, which sounded good. However as was pointed out, St. Pete Gibbs was awarded points for getting running clocked by Lakeland who in turned was penalized by the system for playing a winless team. As I said then, all that proved to me was Gibbs had no business playing Lakeland. Yet under that system it was better for a bad team to over schedule and get beat than to play teams along their own level. It's almost like telling a student who struggles with basic math to take calculus because an F in calculus is better than an A+ in basic math.
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The next time I am having a bad day or just royally screw something up, I will replay the last seconds of this game to remind myself that whatever I've done can't be this dumb.
- cribboy305, muckboy561, nolebull813 and 4 others
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5 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:
If that's correct, you are punishing success. I could support an open division if: 1. It consisted of teams that wanted to play in a super division. 2. If it was created over several years within the context of a promotion and relegation system that ended, say, three or fours years in with the top 32 teams playing in a super division with half of them making the playoffs.
Imagine this: Let's say a really good program has been coming close but hasn't won a championship in their respective class yet. Then finally they got the team that just might win it, but by chance the computer ranks then 32 in the state. I for one would find that unfair. Especially if my team was 5a or 4a.
- CocoaFranco and KeemD321
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46 minutes ago, PinellasFB said:
I am still trying to understand how an open division works. Is this just for playoffs only? So if you are in 7A district 10, for example, and your power ranking is one of the top X teams in the state, then you are forced into the open playoffs and can't play for the 7A title?
That's how I read it
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Avon Park might even be worse than Dixie Hollins or Dunedin. Hard to believe that they won back to back state championships in the 80s and were a strong program up until the early 2000s.
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Here's how I would do it. Using the traditional approach, create 7 classes based on population. Following the traditional approach, create 4 regions in each class. Then, assign a weighted power ranking to each team based on the prior 4 seasons. The highest ranked team in each region moves up 1 class and the lowest ranked team goes down one class. Then make the districts. Repeat process ever year but no one plays up or down more than one class than what they would otherwise be in.
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41 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:
The district championship games and "Open division" selections figure to be absolute debacles if they can't come up with a reasonable and transparent way of ranking teams. Given what we've seen with the last couple of rankings "systems", there is no reason to have the slightest bit of confidence in the FHSAA.
Agreed
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Glades Central would likely win the region in 2S
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9 hours ago, Nulli Secundus said:
The Ledger ran a piece on the Polk County transfers a few weeks back. Let’s just say that Lake Wales lost more personnel than they gained.
Go unbeaten, win the championship, now losing players? That's insane
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11 hours ago, Jambun82 said:
The Viera Admin. did not make this decision, the Brevard County School Board did.
Either way, I believe that was the right decision.
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22 hours ago, Jambun82 said:
You could just imagine being a player who is completely innocent, now being punished with no games to play though no fault of their own. If I was a parent of such a player, I would make my voice heard in that meeting that is coming up. This is why unlimited transfers for players for any reason at all, not questions asked, nobody else'e business is the RIGHT idea for Florida High School Football.
I somewhat disagree. There is a lesson to be learned here. 1. Life isn't always fair; 2. Your actions effects others for good or bad; 3. Even if not involved, if you knew and said or did nothing you are complicit; 4. This is supposed to be a team and if one fails or does wrong the whole team did. The military has this philosophy and for good reason. Ultimately sports like football should be about teaching life lessons, not the going got hard so time to bail out.
Sorry, I don't mean to preach but I believe Viera's admin did the right thing here given the circumstances.
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17 hours ago, SportsFan said:
Crowds have been declining for decades even before the transfer rules
I wouldn't say decades, the last decade perhaps, at least in my area. Attendance was good up until about 10 years ago. Transfer rules changed in 2012
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6 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:
Florida has grown so fast that most people are first generation graduated of whatever high school they attend. There have been so many new high schools built over the years, that they don’t even have enough alumni to fill a stadium. Lol.
A lot of these old towns in Ohio, Georgia and Texas have generations of people going to these historical high schools. Their daddy and granddaddy went there.
Some places like Bishop Gorman is different because they are the only main option in all of Las Vegas for a private education and world class athletic experience. They have cornered the market and built a behemoth.
Back in the day Miami schools would pack 20-40,000 to see a high school game. Before pro sports were around
Small town football in Florida is dying. What you described above was common in the 80s and 90s.
Gatorman's Promotion/Relegation
in The Huddle
Posted
My way of do it would be to create 7 classes the traditional way using population. Then create 4 regions, traditional method. Then using a power ranking system (I prefer LAZ index over Maxpreps but that's me) rank each team in each region based on the prior 4 years. I would weigh it so that the more recent year is weighted more than the previous year. The bottom team in each 7A region would go down to 6A. The top team in each 6A region moves up to 7A and the bottom team down to 5A; so on so forth. Nobody moves up or down more that 1 class. Likewise the 7 classes would all be around 75 schools apiece.