FLFB
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Posts posted by FLFB
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14 minutes ago, Zoe Boy said:
The pass interference were legit except for 1 but yea penalties kept Armwood in that game...
nonsense, their defense kept them in the game
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9 hours ago, topnotch305 said:
300 yards of offense for NW and 150 for Armwood I wouldn't say their defense was dominant all night... And it was easy for me to say because like u have yours about the game that's my opinion.. Armwood defense was getting tired and we kept them in the game with some questionable play calling...
100 of those yards came on 2 plays, during a stretch where Armwood's offense went 3 and out like 4 or 5 straight possesions. Any defense would get tired when the offense is going 3 and out every drive
NW had 200 yds of offense outside those 2 plays, and sure enough once Armwood's offense finally started to put together some drives with first downs after that 3 and out streak, their defense went right back to shutting down NW's offense
Also Armwood's offensive playcalling was way worse imo than NW's
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Anyone know of any link to rewatch the Atlantic-DP game?
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4 hours ago, topnotch305 said:
NW coaches made it closer than it was along with the refs... If NW keeping giving 34 the ball instead of 4 they win easily.. Atwell 150 soaking wet why call a qb sneak with him on 4th and short? This game could've easily been 28 to 9 at very least... But hey the west still pulled it off. Armwood was holding like crazy all night!
Not sure how you can say that. Both defenses were dominant all night, nothing came easy for NW offensively last night.
As for the officiating, I think we can all agree it was horrendous, however it was horrendous all around with blown/bs calls hurting both teams, certainly didn't hurt NW any more than it did Armwood. Mind you the crazy Atwell touchdown run shouldn't have even counted, it was an illegal formation but the refs missed it.
Anyways, even despite the bad officiating, still a great game. I love watching two great defenses going blow for blow with each other. Too bad both those teams graduate alot of talent, I'd love to see a rematch next year. Hopefully they can reload nicely
Great to see the West offically back as state champs again as well!
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2 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:
There was no hidden agenda here. Why start 10 years ago? ...nice round number. I actually spoke of Armwood's excellent 2004 team in another post related to this topic. But why stop at 2004? Let's go back even further in the decade, when Armwood visited the Muck in the 2000 state semis and beaten by Glades Central 41-15. No matter how you slice the pie, one can plainly see that Armwood has had a tough time(either losing or winning very tight games) with south Florida teams. That's probably not a big surprise for most.
And why did I "conveniently" leave out 2010 and 2011 and "disingenuously" list Armwood's "loss" to the Nevada team? I was simply going by the record books, nothing more and nothing less. I am not that familiar with all of the circumstances surrounding the forfeiture of those games. I wasn't willing to assume that five ineligible players on a team had absolutely no impact on Armwood's performance those seasons, so I did not include those scores.
But let's include them now. Armwood beat Dwyer on a last-second field goal in 2010. In 2011, Armwood struggled to win against Central. If their defense had not made a stand in the fourth quarter, they could have lost that game. Armwood won both games against Booker T in 2004 and 2005 with last-second scores, and gave up big points in each. Both of those teams struggled with each other. For me, a struggle is more than just a big loss.
So, since 2000, Armwood against south Florida teams (oops, I conveniently picked that date, didn't I)
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6 losses (5 of 20 points or more and all 14 points or more)
5 wins (3 won in the last seconds of the game, one tough game vs Central, and 1 big win against Booker T in 2003 )
...judge for yourself.
As a side note, those years Armwood beat Booker T, BT and Armwood were in 4A and BT was not playing the better teams in Dade County. There were numerous teams in Dade arguably as good or better. On paper, I had the Armwood teams in 04 and 05 as solid favorites. And when you looked at the teams, Armwood looked much bigger. But BT's speed made it very tough. And now Armwood is facing a school known for its speed. Check out their track history and you''ll see what I mean.
And finally, I was speaking of Northwestern, not Naples, when I commented previously that Armwood has likely not faced an opponent that fast and physical. ...fast-look at NW's track dynasty. ....physical-if you have never been to Liberty City, you wouldn't understand.
Have a nice evening, all!
Armwood was not yet a powerhouse in 2000, they didn't even win their district that year and the state semis was uncharted waters for them. In fact they had never even so much as reached the regional finals prior to that season nor had they ever won their district. Glades Central was in their heyday and an established state and national powerhouse. Therefore it is pretty irrelevant to go back that far. https://bigcountypreps.com/team-history/armwood-hawks/
Armwood has no more a tough time with top South Florida powerhouses as any other team does, including other SFL powers. If they were beating them easily, then SFL wouldn't be elite.
5 ineligible players, of which 1 started (and he wasn't a bluechip stud, he was an FCS kid), none of the some 15-20 FBS recruits they had that year were ruled ineligible. They didn't benefit from anything more than the top Miami squads benefit from every year. And you just nonchalantly ignore that Miami Central also had to forfeit their entire 2011 season because their QB Stock was from Broward. It's ok talking about how success is going to benefit MC, CC, MNW, etc. with transfers from all over Liberty City, Overtown, Miami Gardens, etc. but Armwood gets a transfer from another part of Tampa and omg they're cheaters, any win they had doesn't count.
You make it sound as if in the 2011 title game Armwood was lucky to beat MC and escaped by the skin of their teeth. I watched that game, Armwood was clearly the better team and in the drivers seat the entire game. Yes MC had a late comeback attempt that fell short but they never held a lead once that entire game.
Again, Armwood had not arrived yet as a program in 2000, so counting that game against heyday Glades Central is disingenuous.
The numerous Dade teams better than BTW in 04' and 05' comment is a load of bologna, name them if you think that.
This 2017 Armwood team is built on speed, not size.
I know about the West's track history, and I have watched players from Liberty City play
All that said, I am merely saying that to say Armwood has "struggled" vs SFL teams since they have become a powerhouse is inaccurate. I think our disagreement is simply a matter of semantics as I interpret "struggle with a team or group of teams" to imply that you cannot beat or compete with them, like if they were 1-9 or 2-8 (not 5-5, their record since they became a powerhouse in 2003)
Mind you every one of those games were either state semifinals or state championships, so they were getting the last surviving cream of the crop battle tested SFL team in those games, so yeah I wouldn't expect them to be blowing them out, and due to the weaker brackets some years (especially 6A north the last few years) they were able to sneak some of their weaker teams further in the playoffs leading to some blowout losses to those cream of the crop SFL teams.
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On 12/4/2017 at 2:27 PM, OldSchoolLion said:
According to the records, below are the scores from Armwood's final game of each season over the past 10 years. Excluding the years they had to forfeit, Armwood has not had good luck with teams from south Florida in the playoffs.
One has to wonder if their schedule prepares them well for such competition. Armwood has not had a close game all season. Northwestern has had a number of them, and even tasted what it is like to lose a close one. I saw Miami Northwestern destroy Naples last week and cannot imagine any of the teams Armwood faced this year are remotely as fast or physical across the board.
2007-Miami Booker T Washington 34-14 LOSS
2008-Plant 17-14 LOSS
2009-Dwyer 41-15 LOSS
2010-forfeit
2011-forfeit
2012-Gainesville 42-10 LOSS
2013-Miami Central 52-7 LOSS
2014-Miami Central 24-10 LOSS
2015-Miami Central 48-13 LOSS
2016-Lake Gibson 18-15 LOSS
In 2015, Armwood waltzed their way through the regular season and the playoffs. The highest ranked team they played in the playoffs was #24 in FL and none of their playoff games were close. Central had to beat 3 Top 20 FL teams to make the finals that year. Central played a tough regular season schedule, including Dematha. ...and then they met Central
This year, once again, Armwood has had a relatively easy regular season and faced only one Top 20 team in the playoffs. None of their playoff games were close. Northwestern had a brutal regular season schedule, including IMG, and had to play 2 Top 20 teams to make the finals, and both games were close. I could see the same result as 2015, with Northwestern winning big.
It seems you are contriving this idea they have historically struggled vs SFL teams in the playoffs by nitpicking facts.
Why would you arbitrarily start at 2007? You conveniently left out 2004 and 2005 when Armwood beat BTW (including on the road in 05').
2007= BTW's second best team in school history
2008= Not a SFL team
2009= Dwyer's best team in school history
2010= W vs. Dwyer you conveniently left out (as I stated in the other post, forfeits are irrelevant in evaluating teams performance)
2011= W vs. Miami Central you conveniently left out
2012= Not a SFL team
2013-15= MC, the only SFL team/years you can say Armwood has truly struggled with
2016= Not a SFL team
That's 4-5 vs. SFL elites in the playoffs, not good, not bad, you win some you lose some, about what you'd expect
2-1 vs. BTW
1-1 vs. Dwyer
1-3 vs. MC
Also them not having a close game all season is more a testament to them this year than a slight to their schedule as Plant, TBT, and Hillsborough (x2) were all pretty good this year, better then the last few years.
And do you really think none of the teams Armwood faced this year "are remotely as fast or physical across the board" as Naples?! That is asinine. Naples is not that good. The 3 aforementioned teams would all easily beat Naples as would Vanguard and St. augustine.
The game this year will be close, just like CC-LG last year but higher scoring. And I give the West the edge due to being more battle tested vs. elites and having engaged in close games
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On December 4, 2017 at 12:54 PM, OldSchoolLion said:
Used to live in the Tampa area back in the early 2000's and watch the area teams play. I remember back then wondering why Armwood would rarely, if ever, play anyone from outside Hillsborough County in the regular season, especially when you had good teams like Lakeland, Kathleen, and Lake Gibson right down the interstate in Polk County and a number of good teams not too far away in the Sarasota/Bradenton area. From what I recall, they might have only 1-2 close games per year, against Hillsborough and Plant, and all of the rest were blowouts.
Back then, this practice seemed to hurt them come playoff time when they might have to travel and play much tougher teams than what they were used to. I see that is still the trend today to play local teams, many of whom are much weaker. Does anyone know why this is the case?
Just for kicks, I looked at their schedule since 2005 and looks like they only played a handful of teams from outside their area, and only one of those was an away game:
2008 Bothell, WA-HOME-WON
2011 Bishop Gorman, NV-AWAY-LOST
2012 American Heritage-Delray(3A school)-HOME-LOST
2013 Cooper City (3-8 record that year)-HOME-WON
I have experience with high school football in south Florida and a team in Dade or Broward County could build a brutal schedule playing just county teams-no need to travel far. Judging by the scores of many of Armwood's games, things are not as competitive there, even now.
They won that game, on the road in vegas, without their 4* RB who is now in the NFL
Who cares if they had to forfeit, for the purpose of evaluating their performance over the years it is disingenuous to refer to that as a "loss"
- DarterBlue2 and Zoe Boy
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Similarly talented teams but I'm going with the West because they have faced more elite competition and are more battle tested
- Zoe Boy and DisabledAccount
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54 minutes ago, Proseteye said:
With the exception of 3 or 4 teams or so Armwood has had a murderer's row to get through. Vanguard had only 2 or possibly 3 fairly tough teams, Buchholz, Gainesville, and I guess Mitchell. I don't think that any of those 3 teams is as difficult as Tampa Bay Tech, Plant, Jefferson, and Durant. Armwood seems to have a lights out defense. I'm assuming that it's mostly against the run. Although Vanguard has some good backs they do better at passing. Wonder if Armwood can stop Vanguard's passing attack. And can Vanguard stop or slow down Armwood's offense which is incredibly balanced. They seemed to have a hard time stopping Mitchell's RB Hamilton. Whatever, it will be decided on the Armwood's field this Friday. Would like to hear some other opinions on this game from folks that may know more than I do about both teams. What does Vanguard have to do, beside pray a lot, to come back to Ocala with a win?
Eh, Idk if I'd call it a murderer's row. Not quite 6A-16 but definitely better then what people give them credit for.
Jefferson is down this year, and Durant is not bad but not particularly any good, just average
Hillsborough x2 is good and are quality wins though, definitely far better than those other two
TBT and Plant are both among the top teams in Central FL and were soundly beaten by them, indeed very impressive wins.
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On November 17, 2017 at 11:04 PM, Bamarod said:
Viera loses 22-18 on bogus calls by refs. Plant gets a BS unsportsmanlike conduct call against Viera(for playing HELLS BELLS sound after offense broke huddle ) on defense to gain a first and goal inside 10 yd line and scores with 8 seconds left in game. Game was almost as bad as Rockledge-Cocoa game by refs. Refs took away two Viera tds, one on a bogus holding penalty on a return, another from a time out call by plant as Viera scored in first half. Refs called penalties against Plant but not in crucial situations. Read that again, They moved the ball inside the 10 with a minute left in game because they said the bell sound for third down was played at the wrong time.Bell sound was played on every third down in game, but refs flag it inside a minute to go in a play-off game? UNBELIEVABLE !
Wasn't there, but I can't shake the feeling the "bogus" penalty on the return is just you being mad that your team actually did commit a hold on a big play. And if Plant called a TO right before the other TD then why are you complaining? The refs didn't take anything away, Plant called a TO.
You even admit refs called penalties on Plant, if they weren't at crucial moments, don't blame the refs, "blame" Plant's coaches for coaching their players better. Also the game was played in Brevard county, not Hillsborough county. If there was any officiating bias it would stand to reason that Viera would be the beneficiary, not Plant.
When you first posted this I believed you considering Plant's prestige and the benefits that usually come with being an established name brand. However, after hearing the Plant coaches detailed side of the story compared to your relatively vague account, I gotta side with Plant here and call BS on your Viera was robbed claim
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1 hour ago, 181pl said:
Not really. I think the state just caught up. Especially in coaching. PHS has a great staff but your seeing better and better coaching staffs all around these days. Plus it' hard to replace Marve, Murray, and Ely. Been a while since Plant had an elite QB. The defense and run game have not dropped a bit. But when there isn't an elite QB to stir the drink its a different beverage.
How can you say that? Superstar QBs aside, those 2006-2011 teams were waaayyy more talented than their 2012-present squads
Idk, maybe I just haven't been following them closely enough. You're a Plant fan so I guess you would know
Eye test wise, those earlier Plant teams just looked like they had way more ballers when you watched them play
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1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
Ok are we talking most accomplished counties or who's better overall this year
Duval would be up there in accomplishments but this year the teams are down from last year and next year don't look to be any better trend
Leon is 0-9 and in Tallahassee not Jacksonville and obviously their best days have come and gone
I'm currently busy but when i get more time I'll rank the counties from what i see
I was talking about currently this season. Historically speaking overall, I can't really speak on the 20th century since Ive never watched 99.9% of those games, but from 2000ish-present Id say
1. Dade
2. Broward
3. Palm Beach
4. Hillsborough
5. Duvall
6. Orange
7. Polk
8. Leon
Everyone else
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2 hours ago, Seminole44 said:
I’m not a Viera fan, so I’m not making excuses. I always wanted to watch a Plant game because of their winning program history. I’m very disappointed in what I saw...sad and disgraceful. Like I said obvious fake cramps. Wasn’t hot enough to lose that many electrolytes to cramp over and over again this deep in the season where everyone should be in football shape. So it’s either electrolyte imbalances from a serious health i.e. kidney disease, malnutrition in half the defense, or flopping. You made a confused face on my earlier post. Not sure what you’re confused about.
Plant of today is a far cry from their elite teams of 2006-2011
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1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
Tampa is Hillsbourgh which honestly i think wastes the most talent of any Urban county
This is actually very true, there is little to no good coaching in that county
- KeemD321 and Pipe Dreams
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1 hour ago, Pipe Dreams said:
Top counties has to include...
Miami-Dade
Broward
Orange
Palm Beach
Brevard
Duval??? A Tampa county??? This is where it drops off.
I'd definitely debate the top 5 or listen for anither county that I am missing
I would say 1. Dade 2. Broward (even in this down year) 3T. Orange/Hillsborough 4. PB
PB is not what it used to be from a teams standpoint, not talent.
Hillsborough is better than Brevard and about tied with Orange
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4 hours ago, Pipe Dreams said:
...and that substance-free post proves my point.
Nothing about the game on the field. All about name-brand and past seasons.
Won't work with the guys who know CFla.
Name the #2 area in the state and we can debate. Every other area has fallen off and does not have the volume of good teams that Orange has.
The only larger population centers - Jax/Tampa - both down. You could say Palm Beach / Broward but their publics lose by the same scores to the Miami teams that the 407 teams do. Orange County is bunched in 8A North - none of the good teams play in 6A or 7A.
Jones gave Cardinal Gibbons their only tough game outside of Southridge and AHP. Jones would've also been in close games with OC teams DP, Apopka, Winter Park, Wekiva & West Orange had they played.
Not only that - these Orange teams are producing very, very good NCAA and NFL players at a rate they never did in the past.
Nolebull I know you like to play the alpha male online but as some would say "the lights are on but nobody is home" when you talk about Orange
You can't make that statement, none of the 407 teams play the top Miami schools
Almost all the good OC teams are in 8A, which features none of the top south FL programs, good ones, but not top. So it gives the illusion that they have a number of state level elite programs when in reality they just get to dodge the STA's, MC's, MNW's, etc. of South FL.
OC has a lot of good teams, but no elite ones, at least this year (not saying they haven't had any in years past)
All the population center counties Dade, Broward, PB, Hillsborough, Orange, Duvall put out elite talent
And the Cardinal Gibbons- Jones game was never in doubt. It was 20-7 CG at the end of 1, 30-16 CG at the half, and 40-24 CG after 3. Not necessarily a blowout, but the game was never in doubt. Certainly not a "tough" game, and CG was on the road
- nolebull813 and KeemD321
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1 hour ago, Pipe Dreams said:
Nolebull doesn't know Central Florida. I know that for a fact. I was the one who called him out on that stupid post.
He may know other areas and that is fine. Don't give him any credibility with CFLA. He has none.
Orange County is #2 behind Miami-Dade. Things have changed.
LMAO
- Zoe Boy and nolebull813
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57 minutes ago, topnotch305 said:
No way this game should've been this close smh... More than 8 points better than Central smh... I'll take the win but can't let up no more. Goes for players and coaches.... sidenote Dalvin>James
Dalvin Cook was the best high school RB I have ever watched play in my humble opinion
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2 hours ago, Pipe Dreams said:
I believe this is an upset. Vero would have definitely given DP a game like last year.
DP beat Riverview 21-0 last year in round 2. Riverview was averaging 40 ppg going in. Have they seen a defense like DP's in SW Florida? I'd guess Venice, and they shut them out.
Someone give me the details on Riverview. I remember they had a good QB last year.
They won't out-athlete DP.
Using last year as a gauge of Riverview is disingenuous, they are a vastly improved team and playing a far tougher schedule.
To give you some perspective of their improvement, here are the scores of their games vs their district opponents this year vs last year
2017 2016
Alonso W 44-0 W 49-20
Palm Harbor U. W 47-7 L 27-38
Steinbrenner W 61-0 W 20-19
Newsome W 57-3 W 41-0
Manatee W 42-14 W 37-33
Riverview W 41-0 W 30-6
They play in one of the weaker districts in the Tampa Bay area, and last year they didn't play a single decent non-district opponent, however this year they added Venice, Braden River, and Palmetto to the schedule, and now Vero Beach on the road, so they are far more tested this year heading into their DP matchup
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Apopka would give Mainland a much tougher time then DP. Who see's that offense with those athletes ? Only teams that play them yearly get enough practice time to work on defending it. Once in a bluemoon type teams have trouble. In two years I never saw the "fight" in DP. They knew they were going to get beat. Mainland could be 5-5 and they would always think they were the better team and fight like hell to prove it. It's a chip on the shoulder syndrome. Real or imagined they must prove themselves. They play like a Dade County team. They don't have the same athletes, but they're clueless to the fact.... Buc to my last breath
Totally agree with all of this
I thought they'd take a step back this year with the slip in talent level from the last few years but they have not missed a beat
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I have friends who still have family there. Haiti just can't catch a break, the earthquake 6 years ago now this, they always seem to get the worst despite being the country least prepared to handle it
Keep the haitian people in your thoughts everyone
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should ask that to the central FL boys, specifically the space coasters
There are no words
in The Huddle
Posted
Any links to rewatch this game?