Perspective
-
Posts
2,356 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
192
Posts posted by Perspective
-
-
10 hours ago, Jambun82 said:
The Head Coaches role is NOT to moniter what the officials are doing, and speak on behalf of his players. It is to coach his team, and his players. The Coach may have questions about certain rules interpretations or even judgment calls, and as long as the coach calls time-out, and requests an explanation, he is due those questions to be answered. A Coach may ask about a down, how many time-outs are left, etc, and I would believe that most decent officials would answer as long as the question-concerns were delivered in a respectful way. Perspective, you are correct, officials are human beings too. They like to be treated like human beings, and not like a piece of garbage. The NFHS rules are very clear about how coaches and players are to address officials. .
Jambun, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the first point. If the coach is not monitoring (i.e., observing) the officials, how can he be expected to raise a valid rule interpretation question or judgment call? Similarly, I'm pretty darn sure that given the choice between having a 17-year old kid yell out that he's being held every play or the coach discretely getting the refs attention and asking him to keep an eye on the right guard for possible holding, 9 refs out of 10 would prefer the latter. And the tenth ref would be the one who lost his hearing five years ago.
As for the second bolded point, I'm well aware of this. My father refereed high school (as well as junior college and college) basketball for over 25 years. When I didn't have to get up early for school the next day, or didn't have a game or practice of my own, I would go with him to his games. I learned the rules of the games but, more importantly, I learned how and how not to interact with officials.
The biggest difference between football and basketball when it comes to interacting with the refs is the distance. On the basketball court, the refs are constantly walking by the team benches or approaching the scorer's table, but even when they're not, they can only be so far away. In football, even when the line of scrimmage is right in front of a team's bench, the white hat can be 30 or more yards away from a coach, in which case the only way to get the refs attention is to yell loudly. In my view, that's not being disrespectful; it's simply taking into account the laws of science.
-
On 9/27/2019 at 11:38 AM, nolebull813 said:
Sorry Randazzo fans, maxpreps has got wind that you don’t exist so they took your profile off their website.
if you google Randazzo football and click the link for maxpreps, it says error.
Sorry Rams fans, if your football team doesn’t exist, you can’t have a football profile
I can see the Randazzo team on MaxPreps, but there is no longer a schedule or a roster. Too bad; they were having a great season.
-
On 9/28/2019 at 10:49 AM, HornetFan said:
As I am not a high school football player, anything I relay on this board concerning this subject can be labeled "heresay" and would not be admissible in a court of law. Naming the kids and the coach on a public forum would be irresponsible on my part as an adult. The kids and coach did nothing wrong; the kids were approached by friends from the other school. Several of their friends transferred to that school.. Speaking with them, I believe is first-hand knowledge as I actually spoke to kids who were being recruited. I'm not trying to make this a legal argument; an ethical discussion should be sufficient. Apparently, you don't see it that way.
I won't get into the specifics, but you should all be aware that "hearsay evidence" is, as its title suggests, a form of evidence. And while hearsay evidence typically is not admitted as evidence in a court of law, there are about two dozen or so exceptions to the hearsay rule whereby hearsay testimony does become admissible in a court proceeding.
To my knowledge, the FHSAA is not bound by the Florida Rules of Evidence when it comes to investigations. In other words, they can consider hearsay statements as part of their investigation. That said, it is also my understanding that the FHSAA will not open or pursue investigations based on reports, tips, etc. from anyone other than a member institution. In other words, if a player at some high school in Polk County not beginning with an "L" walks up to HornetFan and says "Hey, I just got a text from one of the assistant coaches/players at Lakeland telling me they need another outside linebacker and asking me if I'd be interested in transferring to Lakeland so I can play for a ring," HornetFan could not report that to the FHSAA. Or, I guess he could report it, but FHSAA wouldn't do anything. Similarly, the same would be true even if the recruited player brought the matter to the attention of the FHSAA. The FHSAA would only take action if the school where the recruited player currently attends reports the matter to the FHSAA and even then, the FHSAA would then simply turn the matter back over to Polk County to do the investigation. And, as I have pointed out before, there seems to be an "honor among thieves" mentality when it comes to coaches and schools in a district turning in other coaches and schools in that district. No one wants the 'rat' label.
If someone/anyone has knowledge or information contradictory to what I have written, please let me know. But I'm not interested in how it was done 5 years ago, or what your neighbor's cousin who works at the school down the street told you. Give me a reference to the football policy manual or an email or directive from the FHSAA setting forth their policies and procedures.
By the way, HonetFan, I have respect for folks that don't use message boards like this to drag a kid's name through the mud.
-
I can help you out with one of them:
In its first five games, Plant has been outscored 183 to 62 (or an average of 36.6 to 12.4). Both the points scored number for Plant as well as the points against number are unlike anything seen over the last 15 years. That said, as I've mentioned before, Plant has played some pretty good teams to open the season, including the 4th and 6th ranked teams in 7A, the 4th ranked team in 6A and the 9th ranked team in the nation (per MaxPreps). Not an excuse; just an explanation.
-
17 hours ago, Jambun82 said:
That is almost exactly what I said. How could the officials have done to handle it better? The Head Coach was ejected after no doubt collecting two UNC fouls. Also, we don't know what was said to the officials by the Head Coach. Then this Head Coach clearly does not understand what he did wrong. Also, unless the Head Coach has a law degree, he is NOT the player's attorney. He is the players coach. he needs to worry about coaching his team, and not what the officials are doing.
I'll avoid the sarcasm and simply suggest that this is an analogy. Attorneys are typically the mouthpieces for their clients. In other words, attorneys speak for their clients, whether it be in court or outside of court. I think what the coach was saying, is that it is his job to speak for his players. No coach worth his salt wants his players bitching at the refs. Over the years, most of the coaches I've played for or seen on the sidelines tell their players not to say anything to the refs, but instead come to them if there is a problem and they (the coach) will speak to the refs.
And, with all due respect, one of the head coach's duties and responsibilities is to monitor what the officials are doing. Officials are humans they do make mistakes sometimes (some of which can be fixed on the spot; some of which cannot). Are you suggesting that if the ref incorrectly signals it to be "3rd down" (perhaps because he forgot that the penalty on the offense was declined instead of accepted), the coach shouldn't worry about it? If it were me on the sideline, I'd be yelling my butt off so that the mistake could immediately be corrected. Isn't that what a good official would want -- to "get it right?"
-
On 9/27/2019 at 10:57 PM, Jambun82 said:
Hypocrite huh? I will tell you what Birdbrain,, I have now seen the video, and I stand by what I said. The head coach NEVER is allowed to walk on the field like that, and say anything to the officials. The proper procedure is for the head coach to call timeout, and then have the referee walk to the sideline with another official. Obviously, the head coach did not give the officials that opportunity. Therefore he was ejected and then suspended by the FHSAA. I applaud the FHSAA' s decision, and I think that is unbelievable that this coach still doesn't realize that he was wrong.
I have not seen the video. But, I have seen a number of coaches call timeout and walk out onto the field to talk to the white hat. Candidly, I think the white hats actually prefer this, as it gets the conversation away from the bench of the coach's team and it gets the conversation away from the fans. And it allows the conversation to take place on more of a one-on-one basis. Now, if the white hat had previously said something to the coach about coming out onto the field (even after calling a time out) or if the white hat put his hand up and gave the coach the proverbial "stop sign," and the coach continued walking out on to the field (especially if the coach is yelling as he's walking out and/or walking out in an aggressive manner), that would be different.
Again, I haven't seen the video. But if the coach simply came out onto the field to discuss something (player safety, uncalled penalty, etc.) I might be able to accept an ejection, but I'm having a hard time accepting this would be worth a suspension for the rest of the year (unless the coach has a history and was on double-secret probation).
-
Gaither is in Region 2. Their biggest obstacles to making it to the final four will be Clearwater or Largo. In short, they've got a relatively easy path to make it to the state semis, where anything can happen.
-
2 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
They aren't getting the same level of talent they were in 2016 or 2017 teams
They may stay here it don't mean they will always be top 10 nationally
Apparently, they had a bad recruiting season.
-
3 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
Beating Armwood would push them into top 25 most likely
Maybe top 15
We'll know in two weeks. They play Oct. 11th.
-
Plant held their own against Gonzaga in the first half, giving up a late 2nd quarter TD to go into halftime down 14-7. I noticed coaches from Clemson, Georgia, LSU and Oregon on the sidelines watching the game. Most of the eyes were on Gonzaga's QB (reportedly the number 1 dual threat QB in the 2021 class. He broke off a couple of nice runs, including a 15-20 yarder for a TD, but also threw a real nice long ball. Nice touch on the ball. From a defensive standpoint, you can't bat .500 on deep passes, batting down half and giving up long gains and/or TD's on the other half. Gonzaga had a huge line. Reminded me a bit of a STA offensive line. All that said, I don't see them as a top-10 team. I think there are a handful of public school teams in Florida that would beat them.
But we did get to see some cool buildings.
-
5 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:
They are climbing pretty good so far, they keep winning they will keep climbing
One could make the argument that three of the top four teams in 7A are all in Region 2 (Lakeland, Armwood and Tampa Bay Tech). The fourth team being STA. But only one of those three will advance to the final four. I wouldn't be surprised if TBT beats Armwood, but I don't see either of them beating the Polk County All-Star team.
-
Nice week, Columbia! Well done.
-
Tampa Bay Tech deserves to be ranked much higher in my opinion.
-
7 minutes ago, Joshua Wilson said:
THIS IS THE REAL PICK'EMS THREAD...
I asked NoleBull to post last night because I have been sick battling a cold. I am a little bit better today, but still not out of the woods.
Glad to hear you're feeling better. Get well soon.
-
Clearwater
Cocoa
Lakewood
Berkeley
Vero Beach
Deland
Oakleaf
Edgewater
Palmetto
N Marion
Tiebreakers:
I'll take Strawberry Crest (and the 84 points) against Lakeland.
And I'll take Randazzo on the road against Eastland Christian. Rumor has it they've moved the game from Eastland's campus to Camping World Stadium based on pre-game ticket sales.
-
Did you expect the Randazzo game to be a blowout, too?
-
5 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:
Beating a team 84-0 and leaving one's starters in after being up 42-0 is within the rules. Does that deserve to be celebrated?
For the record, I can live with the current rules. Generally speaking, I would say that many of the good teams today would be good with transfers or without.
My issue is with some of the behavior I see today, ie coaches not using a common sense, balanced approach to navigating within the current system. The hypocrisy I see is disappointing...people who bashed private schools for years are now turning around and gaming the system, using the exact same excuses used by private schools for years.
As I see it, these are two different issues: sportsmanship, on the one hand, and rules on the other hand. With sportsmanship, there is a judgment factor involved and reasonable people often can have different opinions as to whether something is sportsmanlike or not. Take, for example, a team who calls a timeout with 3 seconds to go in the half, when they're already up 31-0, to attempt a field goal or perhaps a Hail Mary. Sportsmanlike? Probably not, but I could probably argue the other side of this one under the right set of circumstances.
Rules, on the other hand, should be black and white. Either they are being followed or they are being broken. Either a coach or a player is recruiting or they are not. Sure, there may be a few gray areas, but by and large, something is either legal or not.
I'm not sure what you mean about the private schools and the excuses being offered up. I gather, from other posts, that you're talking about the rationalization given for those who make the decision, at some point in their high school football career, to transfer to a private school because that somehow provides them with an opportunity they otherwise would not have had. Or is it something else? To be honest, I understand the "we provide a better environment" argument, to a certain extent. People (adults and high school football players alike) want to be part of something that's successful. Human nature. If a kid has an opportunity to be part of a successful high school football program, and the rules permit it, it's kind of hard to fault the kid for moving. In my opinion, that's why the rules have to prevent it and why all schools - public and private alike - should have to follow the same set of rules.
If you're referring to something else, please explain.
-
1 hour ago, Legion37 said:
A victory is a victory if it is done within the rules. And a student who attends a school is very much not an outsider, those transfers will be receiving LHS diplomas, just as I did. Military kids sometimes attend 2 or 3 different highs schools due to the nature of that life style. If a transfer comes in and pushes some one out of a position, be it in sports, band, student government, Jrotc, drama...whatever, then it is as it is. Life is not fair. Despite attempts by some to make it so, it just isn't. Nothing unethical at all working within the rules.
Legion, I agree with you on this point. Clearly, the victory has to be achieved by working/playing within the rules, both on the field and off. And when it's done properly, it deserves to be celebrated.
As best I can tell, there are a number of people out there (including some on this board and probably the author of this post) who aren't real happy with the rules that currently exist. But most of us probably know that the only way to change that is through the legislature. At this time, I seriously doubt that this subject would be as high on the priority list of most state senators and representatives as it was for the Polk County delegation a few years ago. It's just a matter of priorities.
So, as someone else pointed out, the folks in Lakeland are going to have to work extra hard to make sure that they are following the rules, because others will be watching. Just remember, when you're on top, there's a lot of folks down below you who can look up and see your backside. Best to make sure it's clean.
-
Wow, this Madison/Columbia smack talk is pretty intense!
- Trelle, Cat_Scratch and muckboy561
-
1
-
2
-
It's really quite simple: when it's your kid, you absolutely want what's best for him and you'll do whatever it takes to make that happen. When talented kids show up on your school's doorsteps, they were drawn there by the program's history and tradition, the coaches and the prospects of developing the kids into players worthy of D-1 scholarships. When talented kids show up on another school's doorsteps, they were improperly recruited. There you have it.
-
11 hours ago, skyway said:
I find it so incredibly weird that we have message boards full of people who proudly claim to be capitalists, who claim to hate the forced equality of socialism etc, who suddenly do a 180 and come on here and bash families for moving their kids to schools that provide the most resources and best experiences for the kids. It's totally great to try to get your kid into a school that offers a great engineering program, the best band programs, best theater etc. But should the family of a promising football player want to go somewhere that happens to offer a considerably better football program with better resources and services, suddenly you all become bleeding heart socialists begging for everyone to have the same everything.
See next post
-
https://www.yahoo.com/news/poor-schools-cant-compete-richer-120227608.html
Interesting article. Could this ever happen in Florida?
-
You know, at this point, I don't know whether we should blow the whistle on whoever is behind this or, alternatively, go along with the gag . . . have guys start showing up at their games and giving reports, throwing them in the Pick Em one week, someone could create a dummy account on here and be a big Randazzo booster, etc. I'm sort of intrigued now. What, exactly, is their end game?
-
8 minutes ago, Steinbrenner Warriors said:
so all of their opponents are real schools... who don't have football programs. This seems like a student project to see if they could infiltrate maxpreps system and become highly ranked never playing a game
That OT loss to the South Carolina school is going to hurt their ranking!
Plant's Weiner suspended for this week... at least
in The Huddle
Posted
It's now being reported as a six-game suspension. Coach Weiner met with the Plant team this morning.
No reasons have been given yet. Katherine Smith (with BayNews 9) indicated that Coach Weiner will be giving an interview later today. We'll learn more then. If I'm a betting man, I suspect the answer's going to look a lot like The Blind Side movie, but for a kid who hardly played. Just a guess on my part.
At least Plant doesn't have to worry about being made to forfeit any of their games this year.