Beek
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Posts posted by Beek
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16 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:
A lot to unravel here.
First good on the AD for potentially catching a problem. I know it sucks, but he is right. You would rather not play the players, win the game then win the game and end up losing your win because of ineligible players.
Second, is the AD saying the individual scores for students have not been released to the school districts from when they took the exams in the Spring? If so, he is wrong, scores were released to the schools on July 29th, which is much later than normal. So it could just be the school district is slow in entering and calculating the grades of the students. Now, could some of those students not taken the EoC (Biology, Algebra I, Geometry, US History) for subject, maybe. Every district is different on how a student who missed the exam is handled and how that would calculate into a student's overall grade.
Third, If the AD isn't willing to look at the math, then they are in heavy "Cover Your Ass (CYA)" mode. Little can be done to fix them. If you show them the hypothetical of an F, and the GPA is still above 2.0, then how will the player become ineligible?
Good thing we won the game anyway!
From what I was told, St Cloud had the same issue last friday night. At least that was what I was told.
It is a large case of CYA, but in my opinion, without logic applied. Calculate the gpa, with a "0" or "f" and if its above 2.0 the kid is good.
My principal also sees it that way and is supposed to be working on that fix.
I am being told it is the state, not the county! So that may be the first incorrect thing I am being told. My ad has the best electron microscope for anything that is not exactly what the ad wants. Takes my players off the field for mandatory study halls, during practice time. 'because we dont want them to become ineligible", Doesnt matter if the kid has a 3.9, still has to attend. If you dont go to study hall, you may end up not playing! My ad thinks ad stands for athletic disciplinarian. I know why it is tough here and why so many coaches leave. This situation is very tough to handle when you are always being thrown a curve ball at the last minute. This is but just 1 of many things. Now on a positive note, the ad truly means well and thinks what is being done is in the best interests of the students.
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EOC = end of course. These are graduation requirement benchmarks
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The "I" comes from the state mandated EOC exam. That exam can count up to 30% of the students final grade.
The state has not sent the results back to the county so they can be factored in the students final grade.
The problem as I see it is FHSAA has its rules and bylaws that have to be followed and the state doesnt care about the athletes and the date their grades have to be tabulated.
That is the story I am being given. Hopefully it is all true
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10 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:
Doubt it is a district problem but a quick call to the county office can easily clear that up. School just started so I would assume this is a last year's grade issue and if that is the case onus falls on the AD as he should have given you notice during the spring game or at the very least start of school year; definitely not at 3PM Friday. Our protocol many years ago was weekly progress reports from each player (Fridays) leading up to the nine week grading period to avoid last minute surprises. Feel terrible for the kids that have worked hard thru summer and now fall camp to be handed this deck.
We have tried progress reports. some of the teachers say its too much work. the administration says it cannot mandate that teachers help with progress reports. These are kids who by all rights have a 2.0 but it cannot be proven by record due to the lack of imputed scores. ( I also tell the kids, Had you worked harder and had above a 2.5 you wouldn't even been in this situation to begin with). But the teams overall gpa isnt that bad considering that only 5 players are affected.
Math is math. that is my point, yet kids cant play! So this should also affect Osceola! bet it doesn't! Their AD probably fights to make their kids eligible, not just say, well they kids should have tried better in the past!
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I would like opinions on this topic please.
My AD, came to me friday 3 hours before the game and told me that 5 of my players were going to be deemed ineligible due to the fact that their GPA while being above a 2.0 on the record dated on sept 2nd, had "I" listed as a grade and that wasnt correctly factored in their gpa by our system. meaning that it just didnt count the "I" at all.
The 'i" comes from state assessments have not been finalized and added to their course to determine the final grade for the course. (this is a state problem, not a district problem or so I was told) therefore every team in the state should be suffering from the same issue! Correct?
My AD and or district decided that we must err on the side of caution. for example a player with less than a 2.4 gpa who has an "I" on their report card would be considered ineligible per the AD's ruling. because we do not want to take a chance on playing a potentially ineligible player or have to pay a fine, which the school cannot afford.
So I argued that, a player with a 2.4 gpa, who has an "i" (which is considered by florida statutes as a "0" on the 4 point gpa scale) cannot play even though when you figure the gpa using the "0" for the "i" is still above a 2.0. I explained that you cannot have a -1 on a Gpa so the score cannot get any lower. This got me nowhere! So we had to sit many starters from the fall classic.
The bigger issue is when we get to Week 2 when we have a game that counts. Will my players be able to play? should be!, but! this is the thinking that keeps us where we are!
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Tenoroc is also shut down due to covid
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According to MAX Preps (according to state rankings as on 8/14/2021)
1. Osceola 12th
2. St Cloud 251st
3. Toho 239th
4 Harmony 278th
5. Liberty 362nd
6. Gateway 439th
7. Celebration 440th
8, Poinciana 452nd
In My humble opinion. Please dont see this as ego or anything else. this is my personal take,
and I could be horribly be wrong!
in order of my personal opinion knowing what i think I know.
1. Osceola they will continue to dominate unless there is trouble with coaching change, they have 3 of my former players.#greenergrass
2. St Cloud, they may rise to the task. great coaches and staff and kids. it is Osceola's to loose. No offense to
Brian Smart, great coach, but coaches cant play the game! #schoolofchoice
3. Harmony, great coach, great kids, just think they may be out played by the above, I am known to be wrong!
4. Poinciana, Hate to say this or sound arrogant. (not in the same class as the above county teams, yet!) The games will prove me right or wrong. I mean no offense to my county coaches.
5. Celebration, new head coach, great energy, and a much tougher schedule than Point! (could steal a win from the top 3 in my list, including myself) do not think 1 off season will overcome the talent. just my humble opinion. He is doing great things there! (the answer to this will be week 2)
(Celebration has already beaten St. Cloud in Fall classic. they seem to be the real deal, Goes to show what I know, or thought i knew. May have to update the list accordingly. But Ill wait until a few more games are played. We were missing many players this last week due to state grades not being put in)
6. Toho, Lack of players and new coach (no disrespect, just the fact of NEW) will hurt this program. Unfortunately kids are looking for the golden ticket. Loyalty doesn't exist. (my program included). Too bad kids can just transfer where they want to go !
7. TIE Gateway and Liberty, (even though I have never beaten either. Gateway is plagued with transfers and lack of participation, Unofficial information) Liberty is struggling, in my opinion after a late coaching change. I know both coaches, both made good choices, they will feel what have felt for the past 2 years.
I am not a Sh*t talker, I try to tell it to my kids , staff and the world how I see it. I am not a expert. I am a realist. We may look at this thread 3 months from now and say WTF was he saying!. It is just a opinion. I have the greatest respect for my county coaches, because we all struggle from the same issues. Demographics hurt, but Liberty has history on its side, Never lost to Poinciana!
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On 6/10/2021 at 9:53 AM, nolebull813 said:
Poinciana needs to go independent. They have one of the worst winning percentages in state history since they opened. (I have their complete game history at home)
Teams like Poinciana would be better suited going independent and trying to make a bowl game at 5 wins. Maybe fundraiser a trip out of state to play some other team comparable to them. Choose an easier schedule to rack up wins and get in the habit of winning. It’s a mentality.
If players see you guys winning 5-7 games they might be inclined to stay and see if they can be apart of the program that takes them to the next level. Build a solid foundation and then jump back into district play
Exactly my thoughts, we have done just that. Independent. No need playing schools way over our head. I have respect for those teams, I am just tired of being everyone's homecoming date! We feel that we are headed in the right direction. Numbers are looking good for the first year after the "lockdown". Our demographic has not changed. We are who we are. Finally we have a few incoming vs outgoing transfers. Lost a few to greener pastures from last fall only time will tell for those kids, some have transferred to 2 schools after leaving us! Overall I feel we are better than we were last year. Kids are pumped, there is a buzz about the players. Better than I have ever seen in the 8 years here. I make no guarantees. We have a schedule with teams that are mostly within our abilities. For the first time I feel we have the ability to win every game on our schedule. Will we do that , absolutely not. But we can compete. We have some strong opponents. Hope the kids are up to that. Part of the slow process of pulling this place out of the basement . I knew it was going to take many years to establish something here. I am committed and so are my coaches. We just take it one day at a time. As far as a fundraiser. Good luck! We have tried many avenues, but participation and community values make that different. Our AD would never consider letting us go out of state. I feel I am always fighting the "establishment". But what the heck, keep pushing for the kids. It is what we do! When you are not at a "football school" there is always an issue! That is a reason that keeps poinciana where they are.
- HornetFan, Jullian and PinellasFB
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As far as Football is concerned. Poinciana had tried to get games with both but lost out due to scheduling. The orange county Ad had a lot to do with their scheduling. I know one of the coaches and hoping they will do well!
Still trying to rebuild poinciana. This will be my first year with a schedule that I was able to negotiate. Hopefully we will do well. With our long time rival (Liberty) having to find a new coach after the spring, hopefully this will do well for us. I feel this is a respectable schedule , knowing who we are and the level of competition. We will be challenged ! but have the ability to win a few games this year. not stuck in a unwinnable district (bartow, winterhaven, george jenkins, all good teams but over our heads)
Poincianas schedule:
KOC Cypress creek
Week 2 Celebration
week 3 Mulberry
Week 4 Lake region
Week 5 Tenoroc
Week 6 Foundation Academy
Week 7 Davenport
Week 8 Haines City
Week 9 Parrish Community
Week 10 Akelyns Angels
Week 11 Liberty
We are still trying to find our beginning. Winning 7 games in the last 2 years is a good start. Better results than the last many years. But we are still behind the sticks when it comes to athletes. Not disrespecting our kids. But so many of the kids zoned for Poinciana are going to other schools including our rival!
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Colonial @ Poinciana Thursday 5/20 7:00pm
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Against my advisement the parent and player will pay a lot of money so the kid can play Prep football. No matter what I said they thought the scholarhip offered by the prep school was a better offer than having to pay a little more and attend a real school. Thanks for the advice
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I have a question. I know I could spend hours researching this, but I am sure that there are people her with great opinions and insites to this topic.
I have a player who will not qualify for any 4 year institution. He is a 2.0 750sat kid. Big body, good d lineman, but lacks real effort some of the time. Calling it what it is. he is a "0" tech. His mother contacted me about him going to a prep school. They want $$, money on signing , money for roster spot! is this the norm? I truly want to advise the parent on what would be correct for them and their financial position. I dont want them to get taken for money, they cant afford it. takes food off the table. My biggest concern is if the prep school will force him to improve his sat and gpa so he can compete academically in a true 4 year instatution. I understand it takes effort on his part. but I have to start somewhere.
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1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:
Poinciana would be better served as an independent anyways. Without massive transfers they would have no shot to ever win state.
Poinciana should just try to get a game at Disney every year and then schedule teams that are comparable to them. Let the goal always be to have 5-6 wins and be bowl eligible.
Create a bowl game and host that every year that you are eligible. I think satellite or Cocoa Beach does something like that
You just took a page from my playbook. That is 100% the goal. Poinciana winning a state title, much less a district is not in the cards. We have no delusions of grandeur. We are trying to build a solid program for the school and for the student body to have something to get behind.
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On 11/7/2020 at 1:06 PM, Just A Coach said:
Coach Tate and his staff have done a great job getting that program back up and running. He always seems to gets the most out of his kids.
He is also a class act!
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For Poinciana sake 14-56 as of today, one more game to go this season wednesday. Of the 14 wins 7 (7-12) compared to (7-44) have been in the last 2 seasons. We are working on turning this program around finally and beginning to make progress. We lost at least 2 games that we should have won this year. No excuses! Classifications have been unfair to Poinciana due to the criteria based solely on total student body number. Which I understand. But as we know it is not a true representation of our populous. Poinciana Is now and will be in the foreseeable future independent. We had this done a few years ago, but the AD who thought he knew everything, felt that Poinciana should compete in districts. So he put us back. We left a very bad 5a team and were reclassified as a very bad 7a team. Go figure! Our goal is to finally get Poinciana to be reasonably competitive at first, then we will rethink district play down the road. Why be in a district where there is no chance of winning a game or two, or even being competitive. Being independent gives us total control of our schedule. We have scheduled like teams for the first time next year. Hopefully the results will be better. If not wins, just being competitive help a lot. This is a work in progress. It took 25 years to get this bad, wont get better over night. Especially with school of choice, why would someone choose Poinciana? We have to win before they will come. Hopefully I can update this wednesday night with 8 wins in the last 2 years! EDIT, wednesday's game has been canceled due to the other team having Covid!
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On 10/30/2020 at 9:24 AM, Coach said:
I'm not knocking the school; they have athletes on that campus. As for the coaches on that campus not allowing multiple sport athletes, shame on them. It does the athletes a disservice in either sport by trying to hoard them.
I almost require the football players to play another sport. It does them better. Wrestling has always been great for the line. Track and basketball and baseball for the skilled players. It helps them to be well rounded
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On 10/27/2020 at 1:54 PM, Coach said:
One thing I will say about some of those 8A schools in the Orlando area is that they've either never had success or they have a student population that doesn't value football. Schools that tend to be large with a heavy population of Hispanic students tend to care more about soccer, baseball and basketball than football. It's mainly because their families didn't grow up watching football so it isn't as big of a deal. A great example is Poinciana. They are historically one of the worst football schools around but they won a State Championship in basketball a few years ago. So the athletes are on the campuses for sure. But if the programs have no history of success then the athletes see no reason to play.
Another factor is the laid-back transfer rules. Now, kids can essentially consolidate talent on teams. So that also adds to some of these massive blowouts - especially when districts consist of teams like Cypress Creek being made to play teams like Osceola and Lake Nona. Of course they'll get blown out. It's going to be like that for the foreseeable future though.
For Poinciana sake, the district that we have been put in the last 2 times really was one of the biggest issues. With football not being a top sport for our students. Poinciana was placed in impossible districts for the talent level on the field. Kids only see losses and why would they want to join? Other sport coaches refusing to let "their" players participate in football. That is the way it was. The basketball team had the best linebackers, receivers and running backs in the school. But they are all chasing the NBA dream. Trying to change it, One week at a time!
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58 minutes ago, Proseteye said:
You are correct. Also, a good HC cannot make a winning team without a good QB. The years that we won championships or did very well is when we had a very good coach and a very good QB. The other years we had OK coaches and not so OK QB's and we didn't do very well. IMO a QB, especially in HS football, can make or break a team just like a HC, in HS football, can make or break a team. I watched the Celtics from 2003 when they had their first football team until now and I can attest to this being the case every time.
If a good qb is the answer I consider myself blessed. Last year had a very good senior. A student of the game. This year we have a sophomore who in my opinion will be better than the senior we had. He is young, but very talented and a natural leader. Only time will tell but in my opinion his future looks bright. We still have to work very hard on the parts around him though.
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Dont want my first post to be one that rehashes an old topic. But every time i look up Poinciana this is the same thread i keep seeing.
I was on the staff at this game. There was way more than big kids on the line that won that game. Yes, Point was brought in to be the whipping boy for that game. What happened was more of good plays and good takeaways. The opponent underestimated the team they were playing. We had a running back that ran for about 250 yds,(don't have the exact stats) A forced fumble that went for 6 from the MLB.
So why has Poinciana struggled? Is it one of the worst teams in the state?, Maybe in wins and losses, but there are other ways to judge a program. These are not football kids in general. With a rival school less than 5 miles away, that Poinciana has never beaten, makes it hard to keep kids because school of choice. We have kids that live within 400 yards of the school and drive all the way to St. Cloud to play. I'm not aggravated with St.Cloud or even with the system. The program has to offer something to make kids want to be there. Poinciana may have 2300 kids on campus (in a normal year) but the talent level is that of a small 4a school. This is not a disrespect of the athletes in the school as there are many. Every kid thinks they are a NBA star in high school even at 5'6". I see many good potential football players who say " im a basketball player, I don't want to hurt my NBA future by playing football" Then I ask them "look at yourself, and tell me how many people do you see that look like you playing college, much less NBA". While I have been there we had a basketball coach that forbid his players to play football. Some of the best athletes on campus. Current staff encourages multi sport athletes. But a football program has to have something to offer to attract players.
One of the biggest problems with football here is turn over in coaching staff. No head coach has been there for more than 3 years. I think when I did the math is was a average of 1.6 years tenure. Cant build anything that way. The kids have nothing to believe in. I have seen some phenomenal athletes at this school who did play football. They were under used or not used properly to their talent level or chose to not play football at all. You cant force a downhill running back to be a zone back or a spread team be a power team or vice versa. Once you build a relationship with a player and finally get the buy in, poof the coach is gone. No disrespect to former head coaches. Everyone has their own agenda or one forced upon them. But it still doesn't build a program. I have worked under some great coaches and some that were clueless. I did my best to be a faithful assistant while learning all the time. Seeing what worked and what didn't and figuring out why. The biggest take away i had from this was coaches trying to pound a square peg into a round hole and lack of staff. There was a year where 1 coach had 60 jv players all by himself and also had varsity duties. I will say that getting approved to coach in this county is a struggle all in itself and the time it takes and the process has caused some coaches to just go somewhere else. Since i have been here administration (3 different principals) support has been there. They are not looking for wins. They understand the process.
So looking at the other things this program has done. in the last 3 years every player who was looking for something at the next level received an offer. Maybe not be where they wanted to go as we haven't had a D1 player in years, even though they all think they are. We have found a fit for them financially and athletically where they have the opportunity to actually play and thrive academically. After all isn't that really what we are supposed to be doing? Having said that, that is no excuse for losing almost every game. So lets look at that. Look at the districts where Poinciana has been assigned. When we were 5A (south lake, eustis, tavaries, jones, bishop moore) and 7A (winter haven, bartow, george jenkins, liberty). No chance of ever competing for a district championship. Out of all those teams poinciana has only beaten 1 of them. In my opinion those teams are in a different class than poinciana. not making excuses, just stating facts. Can Poinciana get to that level? Yes!, but not over night. We now have the Staff (11 coaches) where we can concentrate on the smaller things and make us better as a whole on the field as well as off. Only time will tell if this is the right direction.
Player eligibility!
in The Huddle
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I am totally about the student - athlete, student comes first always. Our teams average gpa last year was a 2.8. With this issue that we have now it only affects 5 players, which means I only have 5 players below a 2.4 gpa. So it seems we are working in the right direction