Ray Icaza
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Posts posted by Ray Icaza
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13 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:
First, high school wrestling, to my limited knowledge, is not at a big-time, big $ level like football and basketball. So, I don't think that comparison works for what I'm talking about. I'm not opposed to schools offering sports as extracurriculars per se.
If we return to football, perhaps we could use my alma mater as an example. What you've said about Brandon wrestling can mostly be said for Lakeland football. So, under my plan, Lakeland High school no longer offers a football program operating at anywhere near the financial level it is now. It would be a club sport, if they fielded a team of any kind at all. What effect would that have on the football players in Polk county? It would almost certainly be a benefit. As is mostly already the case, kids zoned for all sorts of different schools play football for Lakeland. It's an attempt at a...regional all-star team. There would absolutely be one or two Polk/regional all-star programs existing. What would be gone are the dysfunctional programs already lacking support. This would lead to a consolidation of resources such that the exisiting major programs have more $ invested, better coaches and fan support. The kids see themselves as representing Polk county, and not a particular school, anyway.
Interesting concept and we should be open to consider these kinds of possibilities going forward as the current environment for HS football is not ideal.
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13 hours ago, PinellasFB said:
No, Rise Prep is a remote school where you typically dual enroll between online HS classes and Dade county community college classes, of which I'm sure most will choose the online DCCC class offerings. Student athletes at RPA can then choose any school to play for. This is how Broward athletes can attend. While RPA seems legit academically, the sketchy part is their role in sports where they are nothing short of true hired guns sent to various teams in the area. It just never "feels right" that a big portion of West Boca's team doesn't even attend West Boca.
Thanks for that insight, as I never knew programs like this existed who appears to have the sole purpose of acquiring talent in the surrounding area. Never sits well with our program in retrospect losing to teams in a championship game that did it that way. Reminds me of our losing to Flanagan HS in a similar fashion as well.
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I was also there that night for the TBT game as I was the previous week when we beat Lakeland in those same playoffs as well as the following week when we beat Niceville. That 2014 team was pretty good, but as a heavy run team we ran into the best defensive front I had seen at the HS level in the state championship when we got bullied by STA with Nick Bosa and Co. who were unblockable.
- nolebull813 and JDHoss
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57 minutes ago, MarkECannon said:
Go to an Osceola home game, especially a big game, and you will see why kids want to play there. It’s one of those places you wish your program was if it isn’t already. Great atmosphere, pageantry, sense of community. You will be impressed.
Everything is relative for me growing up here. In the mid to late 70's early 80's when we played out at the Silver Spurs arena and our population was a fraction what it is today, we attracted fans in the thousands to big home games. Today, despite consistently fielding excellent teams year after year the attendance is typically in the hundreds which I consider a paltry number. I see the work the coaches and players put in so feel they should get alot more support than they do. The least that can happen in the upcoming year is for all our coaches to be paid better than they have for the value they provide the school system and the kids they impact.
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15 hours ago, PinellasFB said:
I frequently have to go to wresting tournaments at Osceola HS. In fact, I was just there the past four days for Summer Slam. That neighborhood looks pretty low income. I can imagine it wouldn't take much $$$ to get some of those kids to transfer out. That area is also a talent hotbed so I bet the struggle is real to hang on to those kids?
Well we certainly don't have perks to offer top area players to transfer into our program, but we do have lots of Tradition, competition and solid coaching that prepares players for the next level. That consistency, continuity, discipline, hard work, etc.. also isn't for everyone as we see some come and not last in our program. At the present time, we don't seem to be as well positioned as we were last year at this time for success into the playoff rounds but time will tell. As I have clearly pointed out in previous years we do lose as many or more than what we gain on average and outsiders claiming we steal all the surrounding talent are clueless. Our wrestling program has been extremely successful over the years but currently going thru a coaching change so will see how that affects that program. I think to be considered a Title 1 school 40%+ of the student body must qualify for the lunch program; I would guess we are probably closer to 60% but don't quote me on that.
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2 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:
Was the DB who transferred to Lakeland at all involved with, or related to, the awful tragedy that occured with the head coach's family? Obviosuly not to a significant degree as he played there last year. I just recall seeing some names involved last I checked and I wonder. Perhaps not something to discuss publicly. Anyway, I see on the depth chart the Kowboys submitted to the FHSAA for the state title game he was a backup, and three of the starters were underclassmen. So, he's likely in a similar situation at Lakeland where he'll compete for, but not be promised, a starting spot.
No, this kid has good parents with good jobs and his older brother started for us several seasons and attended LIU on scholarship this past year. His Dad is a very savvy football guy and he must have been onboard with the decision. The WHY is always a guessing game, thus speculation so I hope you appreciate me not opining on reasons. We hope it works in his favor, but you never know as I think he will have to compete for playing time in the secondary there just as he was doing here. Thankfully our coaching staff believe in merit and all starting positions have to be earned, which I fully support. Reason given why players transferred to TFA have little merit as they certainly don't apply to the 2 we lost to them last year. The OL we lost is from a very well to do family whose Dad is a prominent OB/ GYN doctor in the central FL area and after last season and looking ahead to this season, it remains a real head scratcher as to WHY?? Over the summer I am sure we will gain a few and lose a few with the hope in each of those moves it truly benefits the student/player, not the coach that is only trying to make a name for himself by taking shortcuts.
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6 hours ago, nolebull813 said:
So crazy to me. Some kid can live in extreme poverty, and is offered a way to completely change the dynamic of his family’s living situation for the better while at the same time enhancing his education, and increasing his access to a free college education.
And the response from people almost exclusively more well off than him and his family is, is NO!!!! You must stay in a failing school, in extreme poverty, and decrease the chances of college with the hopes of creating generational wealth!!!!
”But why sir?? Why can’t I help me and my family for decades to come?”
“Because peasant, the high school you are leaving might not win as many football games without you stuck in your vicious cycle!!!!!”
Sounds like your intentions are genuine, but your argument is weak. NO ONE is telling any student he or she can't transfer to a better school be it for academics or athletics and here is where your argument falls apart. We have "SCHOOL CHOICE" for that very reason, but that doesn't include coaches, their agents, parents or others actively trying to recruit an athlete simply because he can help their program win offering them any number of perks. Osceola is a relatively low income county compared to the surrounding Orange, Seminole, Brevard and Volusia thus a Title 1 school. However, the administration, faculty, coaches and support staff do a very good job with the kids they are handed be it on the education front or athletics. We just had a DB transfer to Lakeland HS and my guess is he and his parents have their reasons for doing so that they deem beneficial for his senior year. We had a RB transfer in from Toho probably with a similar scenario. That I have no problem with and the way the program is supposed to work. TFA and the kids (30 as others have pointed out) that went there is an abomination that can only be chalked up to recruiting which is illegal and thankfully has consequences for ALL!!
- Perspective, h8r, Dr. D and 1 other
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41 minutes ago, Perspective said:
Responding to Nolebull's comment with an SAT-like question for everyone on this board:
Here's the scenario (and I'm making it as blatantly obvious as I can): Assistant coach for Local High School ("LHS") identifies a rising junior skill position player from another high school that the LHS coach believes could be a real difference-maker for his team. The LHS coach pulls the kid aside after a 7-on-7 tournament and starts extolling the virtues of LHS and telling the kid what a great fit the kid would be. He then meets up with the kid's parents and offers them housing right down the street from LHS. He then tells them he can make arrangements for the kid's mom to get a new "job" at the car dealership owned by former LHS quarterback and long-time LHS booster, Rooster Calhoun, who took LHS to the state championship game back in 1974. In short, the coach commits what everyone and their brother could only describe as 'recruiting,' and extends an offer of what everyone and their sister could only conclude would be 'impermissible benefits.' And the kid and his family members willingly participate in the recruitment process and, ultimately, gladly accept the benefits.
Who should be punished:
A. The assistant coach.
B. The head coach (and, yes, I was intentionally vague on whether the head coach participated in or had knowledge of the actions).
C. The school.
D. The kid.
E. All of the above.
Unlike the SAT, you are not limited to one answer. Put down the letter for each one (unless you think all should be punished, in which event you can just put down "E").
Is this a common sense question or should we be getting an "EXPERT" in here to tell us the answer?
- Perspective and KeemD321
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1 hour ago, THAT S--T WAS FUNNY said:
The dudes name is Steven Moffett. Been around for a while (winter park, leesburg, TFA). Runs the 7v7 team 24K. Recruits kids from there and though various trainers and street agents around CFLA.
Thank You, he is the reason we lost our top receiver 3 years ago to WPHS, not an easy drive from Kissimmee. He ended up being their top WR, kick returner and top TD maker that year. FHSAA came down on them hard so he headed to Leesburg. Acting like this stuff isn't really happening, justifying why it happens, leaving poor programs, headed to better programs or other lame excuses are weak. Clear rule breaking should have consequences for ALL involved.
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28 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:
Couple things. Lake Minneola was in disarray. They hired a coach from Pensacola who came in and resigned before ever committing one coaching duty because of the incompetence of the athletic department. It got to the point Lake Minneola had to cancel spring practices and their spring game. Why should players aspiring to continue their football careers have to endure that?
And Leesburg had a popular coach move over or TFA, and multiple players came with him. He was/is a mentor to those young kids. If you have ever been to Leesburg there’s nothing. The school is poor at best and kids thrive to escape Leesburg. A lot of young kids get lost and repeat the cycle. This mentor/coach helped saved these kids by putting them on a better path both academically and athletically as well. Why wouldn’t they have wanted that?
Your view of society is typical where the perpetrator has all the rights and the victim has little. That is where we live today but thank God that isn't my view.
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IMG is a different category as it isn't depriving anyone from a state championship, so I am okay with their model of taking elite players from around the country and preparing them in every way for the next step in their development. The two players we lost to TFA will be contributing seniors to their program in the upcoming season and as you can see didn't devastate our program last year so my beef isn't about that. However, it is my understanding that they took 6 or 7 of the best players from both Lake Minneola and Leesburg last year and that would certainly be a devastating blow to almost any FL HS team's chance for success. That is unconscionable.
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18 hours ago, nolebull813 said:
I wasn’t familiar with what they were found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt for. I did know they hired coaches from other schools and a slew of the players for the former team came over. Not sure if that’s illegal or not. If there was evidence of someone who works for TFA coercing a child to transfer then that’s on them. But kids who had nothing to do with it shouldn’t suffer. Suspend the guilty adults for 2 years from coaching in Florida. Coaching of any kind. 2 years. And allow the kids who didn’t do anything wrong still get a chance that the rest of the kids in the state get to do.
Plausible Deniability can be used as a defense, but it still doesn't eliminate GUILT!! They took 2 kids from our program and had a full court press on our 2 top LB's that just graduated, Melendez who is now at Auburn and Robert Lee at FAU. This isn't hearsay as their parents told me as much at practices. "COERCING" the player isn't the standard, instead simply talking too and encouraging it. Kids that were not involved shouldn't be punished and with the School Choice they are free to play elsewhere. The institution knew all along as their Principal as well as the varsity baseball HC resigned in protest of what they witnessed. TFA needs to be held accountable for turning a blind eye. Hopefully, we will see more of this in the upcoming season as they aren't a one off.
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2 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:
They were found guilty of recruiting players plus providing impermissible benefits during the past season and fined $36K, two-year suspension for the HC and two-year suspension in playoff competition. Get real Nolebull, both the players and coaches knew exactly the rule breaking they were engaged in and both groups should pay the price. Spare me the pity for the "Teenagers" who have parents that should also know better. They got what they deserved and happy their appeal fell on deaf ears. You and I could have a different opinion of what constitutes cheating but we don't count, only the opinion of the FHSAA which has ruled on the matter.
By the way, those "Teenagers" and their parents if they had common sense would see the light and transfer out to play for another local school that can participate for a FHSAA title leaving TFA with that national schedule and the humiliation they deserve.
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2 hours ago, nolebull813 said:
How did they cheat? What were they found guilty of that the punishment should be teenagers losing the ability to compete for a state title?
They were found guilty of recruiting players plus providing impermissible benefits during the past season and fined $36K, two-year suspension for the HC and two-year suspension in playoff competition. Get real Nolebull, both the players and coaches knew exactly the rule breaking they were engaged in and both groups should pay the price. Spare me the pity for the "Teenagers" who have parents that should also know better. They got what they deserved and happy their appeal fell on deaf ears. You and I could have a different opinion of what constitutes cheating but we don't count, only the opinion of the FHSAA which has ruled on the matter.
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13 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:
It's become clear to most everyone that you have to schedule major opponents to be able to recruit and/or retain top players. And most coaches feel playing those major opponents early in the season is best as it allows time to review and adjust based on what's learned in the big games.
You should note there are at least two games over "kickoff classic" weekend which are as good or better than most of those above.
IMG and The First Academy will play and both teams will count the game on their records. They won't care about the FHSAA or playoffs as neither is eligible.
Miami Northwestern and Lakeland will play in Orlando. You can be certain both will play to win the game. And, as has always been the case going back over 20 years, I will acknowledge as much even if Lakeland gets embarrassed. And MNW figures to be a pretty big favorite going into that game...
IMG openly recruits on a national level and is fine playing a national schedule with no interest in the FHSAA playoffs. The same cannot be said about the First Academy as they want to openly recruit, play a national schedule but also desperately want a state championship in the FHSAA. Their appeal to lift the suspension for this season was just rejected by the FHSAA board 10-0 which I applaud them for. A Christian school that cloaks itself in righteousness and virtue should not be rewarded for cheating to win.
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12 hours ago, Perspective said:
Ray, just saw where the head coach resigned? What's up with that?!?
Have no info indicating that has happened, rather he recently posted our "Voluntary Workouts" for summer kickoff on June 10th. As was indicated by another poster, Jeff Rolson who was our HC over 10 years ago has resigned at Apopka citing the open transfer policy as a major factor in his decision.
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6 hours ago, h8r said:
valid, to a degree.
do they keep score? why wouldnt it just be a scrimmage then....
would you agree that a huge spring game win could catapult a team into fall success?
then a disappointing spring game loss could also push kids to transfer out----im gonna see how spring goes before making a decision--said every year.
and no you didnt say they were trash,
but they also didnt get killed by 2 of the premier programs in the state.
The 2024 version of OHS Kowboys was one of the premier programs in the state and my comments reflected that during the season. Can't come close to projecting that out for next year with the group we fielded against Windermere and a lot can happen over the summer. Again, Windermere has a nice squad but isn't in the league they would like to be and OHS was without their #1 projected RB for next year and breaking in 4 new OL so our offense was anemic at best with our coaches not satisfied where we are either. Always the best policy to not over promise what your team will look like until you have plenty of data to back that up. They ain't close yet.
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2 hours ago, h8r said:
but I thought they were so bad and only played against trash teams that didnt deserve to play varsity football? so mighty osceola should have put up tons of points with their vaunted wing t attack and inpenatrable defense. 7 points in a half vs a trash team,
superstar team edgewater put up 21 vs osceola, so their defense is pretty dang good to only allow that many points, 2 on blown assignments,
maybe trash windermere is better than you gave them credit.....
just sayin,
Maybe you didn't read my view as I attended the game. Edgewater beat OHS 14-0 in their half with two busted coverages for (65+ yards) cheap scores but failed to run the ball against us at all. We are re-tooling our offense after losing the #1 RB in the state of FL. In the other half, Edgewater beat Windermere 21-0 and ran the ball down their throat as all 3 scores were on the ground. Seems like they wanted to work on that rather than running up the score thru the air. Not here to run Windermere down but again, they have no chance against teams like these two.
- MarkECannon and nolebull813
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10 minutes ago, MarkECannon said:
I’m sure Ray will give us the 411. Do people say 411 anymore?
Since this is a quote from our coach, "It isn't ever as bad as it looks and is never as good as it looks". Our starting RB (Sinophat) for next year didn't dress as well as a couple others. We can't replace "CHICK", so our off season will focus on finding ways to move the ball effectively which we did not last night as we were breaking in 4 new OL though they are huge. Edgewater beat us in their half 14-0 on two big, busted coverages on pass plays of 65 yards or more for TD's. Their run game produced nothing on the ground against us, so defensively we showed it to be our strength at this stage. Windermere is not in the league with these types of teams at this stage plain and simple.
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This fact may or may not be relevant to their aspirations in football, but they have built one of the best boys basketball "PROGRAMS" over the last 4 or 5 years in the entire Central FL area. They advanced to the state finals this year and were obviously defeated by Miami Columbus Explorers in the championship game; Columbus ended up being the mythical National Champ. Only bring this up as Windermere is in an upscale area of Orlando with plenty of "RESOURCES" to help "BUILD" a program. Process this as you would like.
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10 hours ago, MarkECannon said:
Windermere is hosting Edgewater and Kissimmee Osceola in a jamboree Thursday night. Windermere went 10-0 last year as a freelance. Would anyone be able to tell me about their football program? How do you think they will fare against 2 big dogs?
It is a relatively new school with new field finally installed last year. Word has they have gotten a few decent transfers and they return CJ Bronaugh this year's FL state 100-meter champ who holds several offers and is currently a Nebraska commit. Osceola graduated a bunch of top talent that will be impossible to replace, but they are working hard and do return a decent core of players. I think they will utilize the spring game to evaluate their strengths and weaknesses as opposed to worrying too much on the outcome which means zilch at this stage in the game. Do plan to attend.
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On 5/3/2025 at 12:10 PM, Longtime Observer said:
They definitely seem to be pushing the devout religious angle significantly. We are to believe that Jesus has simply ordained TFA to win prep football games. Jesus never supports TFA's football opponents. Or something...
Well one thing is certain as I have told one of two kids we lost last year since TFA cloaks itself in righteousness: Jesus frowns on cheaters.
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Both sides of this prognostication are dependent on whether they keep personnel or bleed personnel. This won't be determined until summer arrives and at this juncture it is anybody's guess. Yes, both of you are guessing since you are not really involved closely with the program to know if a storm is brewing.
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2024 ended up being a good year for my Kowboys despite a bit of disappointment at the end. Merry Christmas and looking forward to a better 2025 while wishing Goodwill to all of you. Praise the Lord.
- MarkECannon and Dr. D
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Teddy Bridgewater begs for donations
in The Huddle
Posted
Looks like the FHSAA has agreed with Perspective rather than NoleBull and has chosen to suspend HC Bridgewater while they investigate these impermissible benefits given to players. Why have rules if you aren't going to enforce them and if you don't like them then work to have them changed.