[Chaminade-Madonna]

They haven't lost to a Florida team since September of 2021 (and only have lost once since then in an after the season game). Is this the week that Chaminade finally loses? Cardinal Newman led by Jack Daniels (formerly of W.T. Dwyer) is leading the team. They got a bunch of highly rated transfers in. Newman lost an ugly rain fill game against Miami Northwestern early in the year. Newman's season schedule only has Palm Beach Central as the remaining participant.

Meanwhile, Chaminade-Madonna schedule has remaining playoff teams of:
Coconut Creek
American Heritage (Plantation)
Cardinal Gibbons
Miami Central

So if Newman stays within two scores, it is a victory, right?

[THE ORIGINAL 2024 COACHES MOVING VAN - Official Thread]

University (Orlando) - FHSAA Classifieds (11.17.23)
 

[How did the seeding do?]

On 11/11/2023 at 1:55 PM, Dr. D said:

1. While the seeding may be fairly accurate, a more concerning issue is the non-competitive nature of many games.  The median margin of victory for the 104 games was 27 points, so 50% of games were decided by 4 scores or more.  33% of games were in running clock territory (35+ margin of victory).  One of the purported benefits of the Metro-Suburban split was supposed to be more competitive playoff games (i.e. "competitive equity").  These results are not exactly a ringing endorsement of that logic.  Perhaps the games will become more competitive in the later rounds.  Perhaps there are too many mediocre teams in the playoffs to begin with....

1. Wouldn't we expect there to be bigger blowouts due to a #1 facing a #8, #2 vs 7 rather than the randomness that often was associated with the neighboring district champions/runner-up playoffs.
2. Additionally, I thought the competitive equity was for more the state championships than the playoffs themselves, but I might be wrong (but if the goal is competitive equity, then a promotion/relegation system does this better) Also I am not sure the old system solves the issue anymore than the Metro/Suburban issue does
3. As for too many mediocre teams making the playoffs, (not counting rural), we have 224 teams in the playoffs (if we went down to 6 classes (not counting rural), we would have 192 teams, so 32 teams less. If we assume that those mediocre teams are spread throughout all classes, you are talking about 5 teams per class, or a little over 1 per region. So just imagine removing the 8th seed (a couple of 7s) in every class, does that fix the issue, if not. Maybe there are bigger issues.
4. When deciding what kind of playoffs to have, the members have to make a decision if they want
   • A) every team that "could" win a championship even if that means bad teams get in
     OR 
   • Only having good teams in, even if 1 or 2 good teams stay home

I generally fall into the A camp and thus blowouts in the early rounds don't bother me too much (blowouts in 4th and 5th rounds would bother me more).

[How did the seeding do?]

In Round 1, 18 of the 104 games had an "upset" (lower seed beating a higher seed) or 17%.
7 of the 18 "upsets" were the 5 over the 4 seed (two teams that most of us would give a coin flip situation to).
So maybe, just maybe the FHSAA rankings aren't that bad? (With the need for transparency still a given).
Nobody has really come out with a giant list of teams that should have been in the playoffs over other teams in their region.

I know as we go deeper into the playoffs, seedings will hold up less (as is true in all seeded brackets), but let's celebrate that they got it mostly right.

[Coaching Changes (23-24)]

Openings
 

Citrus (Inverness)
Crystal River
Santa Fe Catholic (Lakeland)
South Miami
Wekiva (Apopka)
Wildwood

[Coaching Changes (23-24)]

Since I had a random message from somebody about last year's Coaching Change thread. I will usually post openings and hirings as I find them out, but I will edit and update the original post with every new opening and hiring. So the date of this post might be for November 10th, and you might hire your new coach on March 1st. I will usually have posted further down this topic on March 1st that says "ABC High School - New Coach Vince Lombardi" I will then edit this original post to reflect that so that somebody who doesn't want to read through 100 posts can see an entire list.

1. Citrus (Inverness)
2. Crystal River
3. Santa Fe Catholic (Lakeland)
4. South Miami
5. Wekiva (Apopka)
6. Wildwood
    

[Jesuit Assistant Coach Dismissed for Striking Player]

Honestly, I had read the headline/story the other day, but there was no video with it. In my mind, I pictured kids jogging off to a timeout huddle and a coach being upset/angry and slapping/punching the kid in the face/helmet. And yes, I would fall into the camp of you don't put your hands on a kid. Heck, I hate when coaches cuss the players and I hear excuses of "it's ok because he gets results" or "Sports/Football/cultural issues make it ok," which I hate. If a teacher cusses a student they are on the news that night (whether the kid needed to be cussed at our not), teacher loses job/suspended. Coach does same thing, few bat an eye. 

Watching the video, I barely notice it. It looks like he hits him more the shoulder pad than anything else. Probably the same hit if the kid made a great tackle. If I am going to criticize the coach, I am going to say, you do nothing in anger. He isn't coaching that player, he is berating him. Coaches/teachers held to a higher standard blah blah But honestly, I am probably not firing him.

[Final Playoff Seedings/ 1st Round Matchups.]

On another note, Spanish River makes the playoffs????!?!?!?!?!?! They have historically been one of the worst teams in the state of Florida. Since 2004, they have 27 wins and 155 losses for a .148 winning percentage and they went 7-3 to make the playoffs. Good for them.

[Final Playoff Seedings/ 1st Round Matchups.]

I often state that when making a playoff system you have two options:
1) Get every team in the playoff that has a realistic shot of making the Final Four (even if that means some bad teams get in)
2) Only let teams that have a very good chance of making the Final Four (even if that means some good teams stay home)

I generally side with #1 in a youth playoff situation and move to #2 as we get to the pros.

But I am curious, how many teams "good" teams were left out of the playoffs that if they played in their region would have a decent chance of making final four for their classification?

[Most Current FHSAA Rankings]

If a 5th seed is a district champion, but a 4th seed is a wildcard, who hosts?

[Most Current FHSAA Rankings]

Now that the FHSAA is officially run by the state, shouldn't some enterprising journalist be able to file a freedom of information request on the fhsaa for the formula?

[Most Current FHSAA Rankings]

On 10/25/2023 at 3:47 PM, DarterBlue2 said:

After looking through the most recent ranking of the FHSAA, I can say it has gotten better by a fairly significant amount. However, there are still some serious discrepancies. I have listed a few examples:

Teams clearly ranked too low: Miami Central at 35, Jones at 99.

Teams clearly ranked too high: Williston at 9, Walton at 12, Bradford at 14, Eu Galle at 15, Orange City University at 16, Atlantic Delray at 18.

I could cite many more examples. Many of the underrated teams are in great positions to secure playoff spots. For them, I shed no tears as they will have ample opportunity in the playoffs to show their mettle. 

Likewise, many of the overrated teams have also secured playoff spots deservingly, as they are slated to be district champs which are automatic births. 

Where I have concerns are for the deserving teams that will likely be left out because of quirks and/or errors and for the undeserving teams that may benefit at their expense. 

Do inter-class rankings matter for our purposes of playoffs though (which is really all we are using them for)?
Jones would be 5th in their region behind Edgewater, Armwood, Tampa Bay Tech, and Oviedo.
MaxPreps has Jones as #2 in the region with Armwood right on their heels with a little bit of distance between them and TBT and Oviedo.

Central is #2 in the region (FHSAA) only behind Miami Norland (8-0) and a good number of points above BTW.  (MaxPreps is similar).

One of the questions that always needs to be answered when making a playoff system is do you only let teams in that have a chance of winning a couple of games (even if that means a good team sits out) or do you make sure every team capable of winning is in (even if that means mediocre team gets in as well). I don't have an answer, but whichever you choose there are consequences.

Again, create a promotion/relegation system that moves consistently excellent teams up and consistently bad teams down, require great teams to play each other for 7 games a year, offer some financial incentive for teams to play teams who would be a long distance away (3+ hours), as certain teams continue to get kids in the transfer portal, schools that aren't getting them can feel confident that they are only playing similar type programs. Make it easy for excellent teams to make playoffs, make it hard for the bad classification teams to make the playoffs.

If you look at the reason that the SSAC is continuing to grow (even if nobody is going to rave about the level of football being played by them), it is schools/teams are tired of playing those "win at all costs" programs and their conference allows them to play schools with similar athletic values. 

[Buchholz thumps Bartram Trail]

A lot of people on this board seem to be doubting Buchholz as a top team in 4S, does this make people believers?

 

[Coach Pay]

The Orlando Sentinel has an article about Coach Pay and the "Florida Coaches Coalition" is talking about it as well.
Every few years, I post the updated supplements of coaches for all sports, and yes I do believe that coaches are underpaid, but I hate how they talk about it.

Most head football coaches are also teachers.
Most head football coaches are Physical Education Teachers.
Most head football coaches are teaching "weight training" or "football" classes.
Basically, their "teacher" salary is an extension of their job as football coaches compared to say the volleyball or basketball or soccer coach who is teaching a "core" subject.
Most football coaches are not also the English teacher grading 100s of essays every week or the Algebra I teacher who must get kids to pass a state End of Course exam in order for the kid to graduate. Their 8 to 3:30 job is preparing their players. Even then, many coaches have less than a full load of courses compared to their fellow co-worker at the school. All of this are benefits not available to the average teacher at their school. Coaches don't want these things mentioned because they know that they have it better in that regard their fellow teacher. To then turn around and complain that they aren't getting paid enough seems small. So when they say they are only getting paid a $1 an hour, I am insulted.
Go to most school districts employment websites, the PE jobs fill fast. The English, Science, and Math jobs remain open for months. Why? Because the pay is not worth the headache in those positions. People with science and math degrees can make more money in the private market than teaching. If I am a parent, I want my district to hire those core teachers first, before increasing the pay of the coaches.
Next, do I appreciate the coaches advocating for better pay, absolutely. They need to organize within their district, join their unions, and advocate loudly both at school board meetings and in their unions. But many don't want to join the union, failing to understand that the easiest way to get better pay is through organizing. Why is the union going to advocate on your behalf if you aren't going to join? Coaches don't like free-riders on their teams, why should unions?

 

One of the questions that never seems to get answered is what is the "right" amount to pay coaches?
Let us assume that they are teaching 4-5 PE classes, they are the head coach of the football team. We will assume they run a year round program of weightlifting after school (2 hours a day for 20 weeks or 200 hours) and during the summer months for 7on7 (we will say 320 hours over 8 weeks).  What is the right salary? Let's assume that all of the gate, concessions, an parking money stayed with the football team and didn't get doled out to any other sport or club, how much would our coaches actually make considering the lackluster support that high school sports get from most of our communities.

[EXCLUSIVE: FHSAA Classification Task Force Committee proposes changes to classification system to help address competitive balance]

9 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

I told everyone that the metro suburb idea would not really help many teams except elite suburban ones. Committee is a joke. Promotion and demotion is only way to get true parity but elite teams will never go for it because they like their state rings and dont want to be challenged for them. We know that most elite teams recruit and should have to fight it out among the other cheaters. go by last 4 year average and bump top 15% up each year and bottom 15% down a year and you will get fair and balanced. 

I agree about promotion/relegation, but I disagree that elite schools would be against it. I don't think a school like STA, Miami Central, Venice, Dr. Phillips, Cocoa, Chaminade want to steam roll teams sorry teams to success, I think those programs (once forced into the elite classification) would admit that they like it more. I think the problem will be those near elite teams will be upset, those good (and occasionally great) schools will feel that the system is stacked against them.

Are there travel logistic problems with an elite division, probably... but I think schools and communities can overcome some of those problems with a bit of creativity.

[EXCLUSIVE: FHSAA Classification Task Force Committee proposes changes to classification system to help address competitive balance]

I will continue to beat the drum of a promotion/relegation system as the only fair to create classifications and not run amok of the state legislature's love of private school/recruiting/transfers.

Use the MaxPreps Rankings
7A and 6A - 32 Teams
5A and 4A - 64 Teams
3A and 2A - 128 Teams
1A - Rural - 34 Teams

7A and 6A

• all teams make playoffs
• required to play 7 games against other 7A or 6A teams.
• Bottom 4 teams move down a class, top 4 move up
• Seeding based on rankings

5A and 4A

• 32 teams make playoffs
• 8 team district, 8 districts
• district champs and 6 wildcards per region
• Bottom 8 teams move down, top 8 team move up (only 4 move up to 6A)

3A and 2A

• 32 teams make playoffs
• 8 team district, 16 districts,
• district champs and 4 wildcards per region
• Bottom 8 teams move down, top 8 team move up

Rankings based on the previous 4 years rankings, reclassification every year.
As a team gets better, their competition gets better, but a team that has a great class of seniors for one season doesn't lose out on a chance of a state title.

Someone is going to complain that the 3A/2A teams don't deserve titles, who cares? They had to win a bunch of games throughout the season and post-season to win the championship. 

The best part is that this can be applied to all team sports, which means that if you have a great football team but a lousy basketball team than you can be in different classifications and not feel boxed in for one sport.

[Buchholz is now the clear favorite in 4S.]

8 hours ago, Perspective said:

I'll avoid (at least for now) the temptation to address the political side of such a plan and instead ask this question:  if you were setting up a new high school sports association, how would it be different than the FHSAA?  In other words, what would you change?   (Open question to all).

I would change to a promotion/relegation system for all team sports based on the previous 4 years of MaxPreps rankings. 
Top 32 in 7A - no districts, all teams make playoffs, required to schedule 70% against other 7A teams
Next 32 in 6A - no districts, all teams make playoffs, required to schedule 70% against other 6A teams
Next 64 in 5A - 8 districts of 8 teams, 32 teams in the playoffs (District Champs and Wildcards based on North/South)
Next 64 in 4A - 8 districts of 8 teams, 32 teams in the playoffs (District Champs and Wildcards based on North/South)
Next 128 in 3A - 16 districts of 8 teams, 32 teams in the playoffs (District Champs and Wildcards based on North/South)
Next 128 in 2A - 16 districts of 8 teams, 32 teams in the playoffs (District Champs and Wildcards based on North/South)
Rural Division (with a small caveat that the best rural schools will temporarily move up and switch with the worst "rural" school who just happens to be too big to Rural Division

If we need more classifications, they will be 128 team classes.

******************* 
Individual Sports (Swimming, Golf, Cross Country, Wrestling, Weightlifting, Track and Field)
- State would be divided up into areas based on geography. School size would not matter, best 4 athletes move on. There would be requires for Area, Super Areas, and maybe Super Super Area before the state championships.
- Individual Sports that have a team element (Track and Field) would be required to have athletes compete in all events. No longer can you win a state championship in Track because you have 2 athletes that enter 5 events each and are just better. You need depth and variety. So if your school only does hurdles, long jump, and triple jump, well you better start recruiting those hallways for a javelin throw an a kid who can run 3200m.
- Wrestling already does this, but weightlifting, swimming, and track would add it.

******************** 
Assuming I was wealthy enough to fund all this, I am providing travel and food reimbursement for any school (team sport) traveling over 2 hours for a mandatory game. If the trip requires an overnight stay, we are paying for the rooms for the limited roster. 

******************** 
Coaches caught actively recruiting are done in the state forever.
********************
Find a way to have a single location for all state championships. I know Orlando is centralized, but I want all sports state champions (baseball, football, basketball, etc) in one city. Some city that could use the financial boost, but also handle the rush. 
********************
Baseball playoffs would be 1 game a week until regional finals, which would be best of 3.
Additionally, regional finals games would be played at semi-neutral fields/courts where there would be several games of different classifications played at the same time.

[Buchholz is now the clear favorite in 4S.]

2 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

Is there any way to get rid of the FHSAA? What steps need to happen? 

The quote is a somewhat serious question that probably should be it's own thread.
BUT below is from state statutes
""The Florida High School Athletic Association (FHSAA) is designated as a governing nonprofit organization of athletics in Florida public schools. If the FHSAA fails to comply with this section, the commissioner must designate a nonprofit organization to govern athletics with the approval of the State Board of Education. The FHSAA is not a state agency as defined in s. 120.52. The FHSAA is subject to s. 1006.19. . . . .Any high school in this state, including charter schools, virtual schools, and home education cooperatives, may become a member of the FHSAA and participate in the activities of the FHSAA; however, membership in the FHSAA is not mandatory for any school."

So as I read the first sentence, it says the FHSAA will be "a" governing body of public schools, not the.
Additionally, the last sentence says "membership in the FHSAA is not mandatory for any school." So in theory, couldn't schools be members of the FHSAA, but choose to remain independent inside the FHSAA, and then turn around and create a different high school sports association. Similar to what the SSAC has done, but do it for the entire state, and thus remove state meddling? Right, the SSAC has no influence from the Board of Education, it has public schools (who are also FHSAA members).

Probably not what you meant, but couldn't that work as almost a protest against state interference. 

[Buchholz is now the clear favorite in 4S.]

Too early to tell anything about these rankings... rankings shouldn't be released until like week 8 at the earliest (for college football as well). 

But Buchholz has been the dominant program in the area for a while now, not sure if they can take the next step from a very good regional area team to 1 of 3 or 4 teams that you would pencil into the state championship.

As for the accusation that the FHSAA would be overjoyed by this, I doubt it. My bet is that the FHSAA would Niceville vs Lakeland (maybe Vero Beach) in Tallahassee if they are going for attendance in 4S, IMO

[Columbia v Trinity Christian (Jax)]

Ventured to the Columbia (0-3) vs Trinity Christian (2-2). 

For being 0-3, Columbia played okay. It was 13-13 at the half with Trinity Christian scoring on 2 short fields due to turnovers by the Tiger QB. 
I mostly went to see Colin Hurley, the QB of Trinity Christian and LSU commit. I wasn't overly impressed, but that is also why I am not a coach or a scout. Don't get me wrong, his arm strength is great and he seems to be able to sling it without having to step into the throw. I just didn't see anything amazing that will make me remember him. The running back and wide receiver showed a lot more individual talent, I though. The Columbia Defense put on a solid show, but lost some individual match-ups that cost them the game.

The Columbia offense started well, but in the second half, Trinity adjusted, the Tigers wore down and you could see the panic and frustration setting in as Columbia saw their opportunities pass them by. As for Trinity, I wasn't overly impressed. They looked like they had the size and speed advantage at every position and still struggled throughout the game to be consistent. They will be a semi-finalist in 1M, but I doubt they are in contention for a state championship. 

I said at the beginning of the year that Columbia would best manage a 5-5 season, I would like to change that to a 3-6 (If the Union County game doesn't get rescheduled). 

[Vero cheated Northwestern]

....

[Watching some of the national games from this weekend was a stark comparison to FL HS football atmosphere]

On 8/24/2023 at 10:12 PM, Nulli Secundus said:

Florida’s class size initiative

The area around Tenoroc HS has yet to materialize into the burgeoning community it was planned to support. In the meantime, it draws from all of Lakeland and part of Auburndale to fill. 
 

Meanwhile, East Polk is bursting at the seams and Polk County is trying to build another high school in Haines City. The locals are not happy with the current site selection, lol. 

When are community members ever happy about any site selection for any building of any use?

[Viera Coach Fired After Hazing Incident]

https://highschool.si.com/florida/2023/08/20/viera-football-coach-shane-staples-fired-over-alleged-hazing-scandal

[Watching some of the national games from this weekend was a stark comparison to FL HS football atmosphere]

Niceville for the Kickoff Classic

[Teams that’s should consolidate]

On 8/14/2023 at 8:51 AM, Perspective said:

There are a bunch of "Dillons" spread around Florida. 

It took me a second to get the reference (because I didn't watch the show)... It is one of the few "franchises" that has done well in book, movie, and TV form. Interesting chapter in the book that was that the town actually racially gerrymandered to make sure that the "football" playing neighborhoods go to a certain school and the "futbol" playing kids went to the other school.