Ray Icaza
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Posts posted by Ray Icaza
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I am not well enough versed to state how many classifications for state titles is the correct number. I do possess enough common sense to realize when the FHSAA came up with the formula of enrollment size they did it with the goal of "FAIRNESS". Even a simpleton realizes in the past a school of 500 would have a disadvantage against a school of 3000, thus that formula. Today that formula is irrelevant when you acquire not just a transfer or 2 or 10, but 3*, 4* and even 5* players from surrounding schools to build an All-Star team regardless of the enrollment size. Let's drop the hypocrisy and just do what is right.
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6 hours ago, Mike E said:
I have a lot to say about so many things in this thread, I will try to keep it to some and not all.
Private and public schools have never, ever, been the same and should be separated.
Public schools that get more than 10 inbound transfers (my random number) regardless of outbound transfers should have to play up a level for playoffs. 20, up 2, etc. (probably private as well)
Punishing good teams by forcing an open division makes no sense. Just because you don't like that STA, Chaminade, Columbus, Venice, Lakeland, etc have won a lot doesn't mean bad teams that don't deserve a title, should be handed one. In all likelihood, 12 of the 14 teams that played in the finals would have been in the Open. Very likely all but one deserving champion would have gone out without an earned title. Giving those titles to who? 3 of the 7 teams that lost in Miami? Other teams that couldn't even win their region? The teams that win put in the work year after year to be where they are. One bad offseason of weight lifting, training, etc. can knock a program down for years.
The Rural Invitational seemed weird to me on the surface. But I watched the game on NFHS and those kids were just a proud to be in that game as any we saw in Miami this last week. Why cut it to 3 or 4 divisions rather than give more kids an unforgettable experience? It is about the kids not about us in the Ivory Tower.
Complaining about the scores of the title games.... not sure I get it. Teams play relatively local schools their same size all the way to the regional championship. There is the "same kind of school" championship. The final 4... truly the bonus. I went to all 7 of the games in Miami. So, I saw a little bit of everything. Being that I pay attention to 7A the most.... based on rankings all of the true 7A power was supposed to be in the Orlando area. I can tell you that it was Venice and the Miami area after. Win your region and be proud of that. Should LM be proud of what they accomplished this year? Or should they feel cheated because Venice wasn't pulled into an open division?
Despite what they have been telling you for the last 50 years, not everyone deserves a ring.
From the time I started participating on this forum, I have been against the promotion/relegation system if it involved giving state championships to teams at different levels of competence. To this date, I reject rewarding mediocrity. That said, the "OPEN DIVISION" would produce a singular state champion as the best team in Florida which would make the road more challenging for be it STA, MNW, Venice, Chaminade, etc... They probably would be against this setup, but if they want to compete for that crown they would have no choice but to agree voluntarily. If they opt out, then they could compete for champion of the gold division or silver division or bronze division or however you want to define it that is not a State Champion. So I fully agree with your closing sentence, "NOT EVERYONE DESERVES A RING"! That includes STA, MNW, Venice, Chaminade, AHP, etc... Only ONE does.
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3 hours ago, FBGUY1989 said:
Either way you look at it someone is going to complain. FHSAA can make as many changes as needed but like I said a school is going to feel left out if they can't get in the playoffs or get into a bracket where it's not favorable.
That is correct, someone is always going to complain. If they went to an "OPEN DIVISION" with 12 schools they would most likely all complain, while the other 550 would rejoice so why cater to the few rather than the many??
- DarterBlue2 and MarkECannon
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2 hours ago, MarkECannon said:
Be careful Jambun, you are causing officials to consider calling an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on you for excessive celebration.
That my friend is GOLDEN!
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1 hour ago, Dr. D said:
Almost everyone on this site is a homer (and rightfully so), so they advocate for the rules/regulations/scenarios which benefit their particular team. The FHSAA is charged with ensuring competition on a "fair and equitable basis" (their words). So the FHSAA should be the adults in the room in being objective and providing the right environment for the benefit of all member schools. But my observation of the FHSAA Board of Directors is they are more concerned with representing the constituency for which they were appointed to represent; so, it becomes north vs. central vs. south; public vs. private vs. charter; rural vs. suburban vs. metro. Count me among the cynics that there is a bright future for Florida high school football, but I too hope I am wrong.
History gives validity to yours and Darter's view of the FHSAA Board of Directors. I have nothing objective to dispute your views, only hope.
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1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:
Before there were rampant transfers, that's not totally true. Yes, the MNW, CC and SR had their fair share of titles. But with the talent spread among more schools the Jacksons, NMBs, MS, CG, etc., etc. used to have decent teams (in the case of Jackson very good teams) too. What we have in large metro areas now, and I won't limit it to south Florida, as it includes Tampa Bay, Greater Orlando, Jacksonville area, etc., are stacked teams where 5 to 6 schools have 90+% of the elite talent and many of the others have a hard time winning a few games each season.
It goes without saying that this is not a model for the health of the sport at the high school level. It needs to be addressed one way or another or there will likely be mass exodus from the FHSAA tournament in the not too distant future.
I won't hold my breath.
Have faith, these FHSAA folks aren't blind and hopefully will do the right thing.
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1 hour ago, FBGUY1989 said:
Why should they beat up on each other. Now I'll admit enrollment isn't a factor because you can have 1100 students vs a 2500 student school and you can literally beat the breaks off of them with 1100 hundred students. I think private schools should have their own classification and to everyone else like Central and Northern Florida schools well I don't have an answer. South Florida schools are just built different well except for Venice and IMG Academy.
Venice and IMG use the same model, that is ......... load up on transfers. I think the Miami Northwestern was the most talented team by far I watched in the playoffs, but even the announcers acknowledged that Bridgewater not only loaded up on talent this year but it will only increase next year. Why should they beat up on each other you ask? Simple fairness, play teams that do what you do in an "OPEN DIVISION". Hope that happens.
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1 hour ago, Dr. D said:
And 2022 was a wash. But one might ask why do privates (18% of FHSAA football schools) win as many state championships as the publics (82% of FHSAA schools)? If things were equal, privates should win far fewer championships. While I respect your opinion, it does not make it an established fact. Clearly there are some underlying differences between publics and privates that account for this factual, statistical disparity in success rates. Not to mention that many high school athletic associations have chosen to separate out publics from privates, even Georgia! Guess they are all mistaken, too. Or just have a different opinion.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
- Dr. D, nolebull813 and Airek
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43 minutes ago, MarkECannon said:
This FIU venue is my top rated venue followed by Drive Pink (except main parking lot was gravel, terrible, $20 a game also). Location is obviously the main negative for both. Florida’s population growth has allowed better football to be played in Central Florida.
You can talk location all day but the real deal is privates dominating public.
Even though I became a fan of this year’s Kowboys I love to see West Boca emerge.
Privates advantages over publics have been my beef for years. But as everyone seems to agree the real problem is transfers. Don't know this to be a fact, but I did hear the announcers claim in our game this happened in reverse. Apparently, WB gain came at the expense of Cardinal Gibbons demise. Could that be true??
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39 minutes ago, Jullian said:
The 954 traveled south of County line road & won 3 State Championships, 2 of them VS unbeaten teams. 2 blowouts & a good competitive game vs Orlando Jones. Congrats boys.
Pesky privates.
- DarterBlue2, KeemD321 and Jullian
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1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:
You lost to a very physical team. When Osceola is held to only one big running play in the whole game, you know you are facing a very good defensive front.
Had a chance for a handful of pass plays which we need, but just didn't execute. They were supposedly very good in the ground game also and what did they get...pretty much nothing but they executed on a few pass plays for big results. After a horrendous start we finally did get a score in the second quarter, got a quick 3 and out to mount another drive with time running down before halftime. Our reliable kicker missed afield goal to tie the game which would have finally moved fickled "MO" to our side but it wasn't to be. Sometimes the ball doesn't bounce your way.
- DarterBlue2 and KeemD321
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1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:
Sorry things didn't work out for the Kowboys.
Wasn't our day.
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Congrats Darter, you are so deserving.
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Just got home from that 4hr drive. I think Julian's analysis was spot on wit WB controlling field position most of the day as their defense prevented any chunk plays on the ground. They also never abandoned trying to run the ball even though with little success which opened up opportunities thru the air. They were as good as we expected and earned the victory. They cashed in on their opportunities, while the few we had we did not. Thought the backbreaker was with them leading 10-7, their QB threw into double coverage where we were in perfect position for a second pick. Instead their WR took that pass for a TD. Proud of our kids as they have battled all year.
- Jullian, MarkECannon, DarterBlue2 and 1 other
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18 minutes ago, havs54 said:
Trust me I'm the opposite of a CCC fan...they're an All Star team every year as well
More data to encourage an "OPEN DIVISION" for these 1% of elite teams.
- havs54, DarterBlue2 and tampa1
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22 hours ago, MarkECannon said:
Because I’m a nutcase I just purchased tickets to all 7 games. For the last 15 plus years my group of high school football buddies have had at least one of us attend the state finals. Individuals lived in Ft Myers,Tampa, Leesburg, Lakeland , Clearwater, Daytona Beach, Lake Mary and Apopka. At the peak my group had 10 people. Orlando were the glory years. For a few years the FHSAA provided our group with passes to every game(those were the days).
Obviously, planning to attend our game at 12:30 Friday but doubt I can stay down there for a long weekend like I had hope to catch some of the others. Hoping the NFHS broadcast of games from this venue are as high quality as was the one for the Rural championship from the Villages location.
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21 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:
@MarkECannon, there's still a shot I may make it down for Thursday through Saturday. At least in Dade, I don't incur hotel costs as I can stay by my sister in North Miami. For me, this year it's more a matter of time. But some of the games do look like they should be competitive and since its that national high school site that is streaming them live, the quality will likely be poor.
Darter, I did get the opportunity to watch the Madison County vs Hawthorne championship game on the NFHS network and the quality of the video, audio, sports reporters, etc.. was fantastic. It is a different venue but my guess it will be high quality.
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37 minutes ago, Nulli Secundus said:
Going with the Kowboys!
Thanks but I like it better when we aren’t favored to keep that edge. Seem like everyone is now on the bandwagon and this game certainly isn’t a given. By the way, good luck to your Naughts as my posts have been clear on Privates vs Public’s so will be pulling for you.
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1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:
Osceola by a touchdown or less in a game mostly dominated by defense. Swint, Osceola's best weapon, breaks a long TD run to win the game.
Kowboys path to the championship will have required beating the top 3 teams in 6A to raise that trophy so it will have been earned and well deserved. The class of 2025 has watched us lose in the finals in 2020, then the semi's in 2022 and now they are at the doorstep again. It won't be easy as that is the nature of the beast, but like they have all year they believe. GO KOWBOYS & grab that glory.
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6 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:
Ray, I believe a number of people discounted Osceola this year because of the disappointing year you had in 2023. Those not close to the program don't understand how bad the injury bug hit you last year. This year has been a more normal one for Osceola injury wise and your team is demonstrating what it can and could have done.
Good luck new week. Due to my departure plans, I won't make the state finals this year. However, I will endeavor to watch most of the games via streaming.
BTW, I took the liberty of sharing your contact information with Mark. I hope you don't mind.
Hope your relocation goes well and its been a pleasure making your acquaintance. Every team that has had to battle physically during the last 2 weeks to get here is probably a bit banged up. We are no different but will enter the final pretty much intact. At least it won't be as cold as it was last night.
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15 minutes ago, MarkECannon said:
I was hoping the Kowboys would get the win. Looking forward to seeing them in Miami. Just curious. How was the condition of the field? The way it is talked about I thought it might have been a positive for Osceola because of their strength in the trenches.
Pretty chewed up as others have pointed out. Don't think it affected either team as they are used to it and we were able to run the ball effectively despite it. Enjoyed meeting you during the OHS vs Jones game and maybe we will run into each other in Miami. Funny thing is our 2 losses that possibly could have gone the other way are to the 7A finalist Lake Mary and 4A finalist Jones. That sealed our fate as being a true contender for the 6A crown, but somehow we are managing to prove those naysayers wrong. These last two victories to propel us there were against teams ranked higher than us as well as being on the road. One last obstacle to overcome.
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8 hours ago, Jambun82 said:
What are you referring too with the officials?
We have had our share of missed calls throughout the year, but so have other teams therefore I haven't had reason to be critical of the officiating this year. Don't know the exact numbers, but yardage wise for penalties it was probably around 150 to 50. More importantly, they called back 2 touchdowns and numerous other successful plays against our offense in critical moments to force a punt. Meanwhile, when we did manage a 3rd down stop against them, we would get a PI (half a dozen this game) or a roughing the passer or something else helping them keep the ball and the drive alive. They threw the ball the entire game (48 attempts), which was their strategy since they knew the run would not work, good for about 380 yards. But you pick your poison and despite 5 TD passes he had 4 INT's along with 4 or 5 sacks. Everyone knows holding can be called almost on any play, yet they never called it once against them the entire game with that many passing attempts with our side clearly seeing it being done. I can sight other individual examples, but it is probably pointless and I am not suggesting the refs cheated, only that the calls seemed to be pretty one sided. The result of this is the coaches had to keep the kids head in the game as when they continually feel the calls are against them it is demoralizing, but they did manage to fight thru it. GO KOWBOYS!!
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3 minutes ago, Nulli Secundus said:
Congrats Kowboys! Good luck next week against West Boca.
Anxious to get home to see how well they throw the ball as BUCHHOLZ ran it a total of 4/5 times but only twice out of a wildcat that was a designed run. They passed virtually on every down and got lots of help with at least a half dozen PI’s to keep drive’s alive.
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Credit to Bobcats for not quitting and continuing to battle. More credit to the group of refs that helped them in that effort. Enough said as the important thing was to survive and advance again on the road. Another Monday. GO KOWBOYS!!
I WAS RIGHT AGAIN!
in The Huddle
Posted
You rightfully list the wrong-headed ideas/policies they have tried over the years and I agree that the Metro/Suburban was a step in the right direction and needed some tweaking. What I disagree with is that these folks are "Totally Blind & Ignorant" as you claim. I tend to fall in the DR. D camp that they, just like most on this board are "HOMERS" and are settling on ideas that either help or don't hurt their team. If they stick to implementing the OPEN DIVISION in 2025 that will be a step in the right direction. I may be the one that is totally blind and ignorant for having hope.