OldSchoolLion

MANY years ago, there were some great rivalries in Florida.  One of those was the Belle Glade Central vs Chaminade rivalry.  Back then, there were only a few classes, and schools didn’t shift nearly as frequently.  The way the playoff brackets were arranged, it was not uncommon for certain teams to face off against each other year after year, allowing for some great rivalries to develop.  Chaminade was a small, all-boys school with a strong program and “played up” in class.  Glades was a tough team from the Muck.  Here’s a description of those games.
Glades won the regional title 18-16 at home in 1969 before 4000 fans.
Chaminade won the regional title 26-13 in 1970 at Hollywood McArthur stadium.
Glades won the regional title at home in 1971 with a 31-0 victory and went on to win the state title.
Glades won the regional title 20-6 in 1972 at South Broward Stadium before 2500 fans and then went on to win the state title.
Chaminade won the regional title 15-13 in 1974 at South Broward Stadium and eventually advanced to the state title game.  David Shula played on that team.  Yep, that Shula.  This was an infamous game, as there was a riot on the field after the game ended.  There was a police helicopter with searchlight flying overhead and police dogs on the field.  Multiple police officers and fans were injured in the melee.  There was such bedlam that police officers had difficulty figuring out who was fighting and who was trying to quell things. 
Needless to say this was an intense rivalry.  Amazing that these games, played nearly 50 years ago, pulled as many or more fans than some modern-day state championship games.  And getting to/from such locations was much more challenging then.    
In the late 70’s and early 80’s, St Thomas Aquinas played a series of classic playoff games against Belle Glade Central and Homestead.  All but one of those games was decided by less than a touchdown. 
Imagine the mystique of playing a team you knew relatively little about-no internet to research.  In the early days, you may not even be aware the other team had a new coach until you played them the following year.  It is my belief that back then some public schools relished the thought of playing the “privileged” private schools and giving them a good butt-kicking.  We still have some of these good rivalries today, but it seems that maintaining them is more difficult because alignments are so much more fluid, or so it seems.
Don’t mean to sound as if things were better back then-just very different.  I do think the atmosphere at some of those early games was more electric.  Today we take for granted the ability to follow high school games on TV or on-line.  It’s no big deal to sit at home instead of going to the stadium.  Half the people in the stands are too busy texting to cheer.  There was tremendous anticipation built up in the days before these earlier playoff games.  Nowadays, there has already been so much analysis in the days leading up to a big game that it is almost anticlimactic when the game gets played.  That statement might be hard to fully appreciate unless you are one of us dinosaurs.     
No doubt talent today is more widespread.  But do not believe for a moment that some of the old-time players could not dominate today.  Despite some amazing talent in the years following, it took 25 years for someone to break Emmitt Smith's(Pensacola Escambia) rushing record.   Deacon Jones, Warren Sapp, Michael Irvin...put them in a uniform today with today's resources and they would likely dominate just as they did  then.  
 

MANY years ago, there were some great rivalries in Florida.  One of those was the Belle Glade Central vs Chaminade rivalry.  Back then, there were only a few classes, and schools didn’t shift nearly as frequently.  The way the playoff brackets were arranged, it was not uncommon for certain teams to face off against each other year after year, allowing for some great rivalries to develop.  Chaminade was a small, all-boys school with a strong program and “played up” in class.  Glades was a tough team from the Muck.  Here’s a description of those games.
Glades won the regional title 18-16 at home in 1969 before 4000 fans.
Chaminade won the regional title 26-13 in 1970 at Hollywood McArthur stadium.
Glades won the regional title at home in 1971 with a 31-0 victory and went on to win the state title.
Glades won the regional title 20-6 in 1972 at South Broward Stadium before 2500 fans and then went on to win the state title.
Chaminade won the regional title 15-13 in 1974 at South Broward Stadium and eventually advanced to the state title game.  David Shula played on that team.  Yep, that Shula.  This was an infamous game, as there was a riot on the field after the game ended.  There was a police helicopter with searchlight flying overhead and police dogs on the field.  Multiple police officers and fans were injured in the melee.  There was such bedlam that police officers had difficulty figuring out who was fighting and who was trying to quell things. 
Needless to say this was an intense rivalry.  Amazing that these games, played nearly 50 years ago, pulled as many or more fans than some modern-day state championship games.  And getting to/from such locations was much more challenging then.    
In the late 70’s and early 80’s, St Thomas Aquinas played a series of classic playoff games against Belle Glade Central and Homestead.  All but one of those games was decided by less than a touchdown. 
Imagine the mystique of playing a team you knew relatively little about-no internet to research.  In the early days, you may not even be aware the other team had a new coach until you played them the following year.  It is my belief that back then some public schools relished the thought of playing the “privileged” private schools and giving them a good butt-kicking.  We still have some of these good rivalries today, but it seems that maintaining them is more difficult because alignments are so much more fluid, or so it seems.
Don’t mean to sound as if things were better back then-just very different.  I do think the atmosphere at some of those early games was more electric.  Today we take for granted the ability to follow high school games on TV or on-line.  It’s no big deal to sit at home instead of going to the stadium.  Half the people in the stands are too busy texting to cheer.  There was tremendous anticipation built up in the days before these earlier playoff games.  Nowadays, there has already been so much analysis in the days leading up to a big game that it is almost anticlimactic when the game gets played.  That statement might be hard to fully appreciate unless you are one of us dinosaurs.     
No doubt talent today is more widespread.  But do not believe for a moment that some of the old-time players could not dominate today.  Despite some amazing talent in the years following, it took 25 years for someone to break Emmitt Smith's(Pensacola Escambia) rushing record.   Deacon Jones, Warren Sapp, Michael Irvin...put them in a uniform today with today's resources and they would likely dominate just as they did  then.  
 

Truly appreciate the comments.  Yes, it is very suspect when a great player "magically"shows up" at a private school, and undoubtedly that happens.  As you put it, gatorman, talent like that doesn't just walk through the door.  Unfortunately, I have heard an increasing number of similar stories involving public schools in recent years...
A talented sophomore qb who has been a 2-year starter for a historically poor team transfers(legally) to a perennial state championship contender 25 miles away and starts both his junior and senior years.  He supplants the qb who started the prior year and lead his team to the state finals.  
An elite level wrestler from the Northeast transfers to a powerhouse wrestling program in Florida and becomes a state champion and eventual NCAA champion. 
I am willing to wager that if those events took place at private schools and I argued that those guys just walked in off the street, a lot of people would people say "Get real, dude."  If we are going to give the public schools the benefit of the doubt, we should do the same for all.  Or, if we are going to be raising our eyebrows at funny stuff at the private schools, nobody should get their shorts in a wad when  somebody raises their eyebrows for instances like those above.  Whatever stance we take, let's be consistent.
When I am reading that the average high school football coach in Texas is making almost $100k/year, it is hard for me to believe that most elite-level public school program coaches are sitting back passively and just taking their chances at what walks through door, knowing full well that they are out of their big salary if they do not win. 
http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/dfwvarsity/prep-football/article171482762.html
Although Florida is not that extreme, all of the firings I have been hearing about must be putting increasing pressure on Florida coaches to "win" or risk losing one's job.  And we all know some individuals will use that as justification to bend the rules, regardless of where they are coaching.  Until I see some facts on paper, I am not convinced that bending of rules is any more prevalent in private schools.  
Absolutely agree that scheduling needs to be within reason.  Not playing another team to keep the kids safe from injury-absolutely.  My problem is with driving 200 miles to meet an opponent when there are all kinds of legitimate local opponents on even keel.  That is time away from the books, not to mention the risks of transport.   It just seems so bizarre to me...teams right down the street...who we played every year...fantastic rivalries.  Now it has been years since we have played them and we are struggling to find teams to play.
If the relegation could be accomplished simply, I'd support.  The approach makes a lot of sense.  I am a little skeptical, though.  Nowadays we have become very good at over-complicating things and spending more time figuring out how to manipulate systems than doing stuff.  Many years ago, teams were fairly consistent in terms of their performance and transferring was a rarity.  Nowadays, things seem so fluid because of players and coaches moving so frequently.  I could imagine a team being relegated, then a big flood of transfers comes in and the teams they are playing are crying they are overmatched.  I can only imagine what schemes someone might come up with in our win-at-all-costs mentality.      
"Part of the idea of splitting private/public is that you want teams facing similar situations and resources/dedications as your school."
Absolutely agree that we should be making an effort to pair teams with similar resources.  As I mentioned in another post, though, I question if public vs private is the big equalizer today-not when I see pictures like below.  No doubt there are some very affluent private schools and some incredibly resource-limited public schools.  But it works the other way, too.  Here are some public school weight rooms in the pictures below.  Many of the Catholic high schools in Florida are 50+ years old and I would be willing to wager that some of them have weight rooms that look like holes in the wall compared to this.  ...the school buildings, too. 
I don't think a school like Ponte Vedra could be playing in a state title game and nearly beating one of the best teams in the country within 10 years of opening its doors unless it had some MAJOR support and resources.  Some private schools took MANY more years to get to a state final game. Maybe we should pair teams up in competition by considering student population AND budgets.


 
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Appreciate you asking, Gatorman!  Although private schools only represent 14%, we all know that those schools are not equally distributed amongst the 8 classes.  Simply due to the law of numbers, there is a very high probability that the state champions of classes 2A and 3A are going to be private schools.  So, there is a pretty good chance that you are going to have at least 2 private school champions each year.  Just like it wouldn't be a stretch to say that there is a pretty good chance that the 1A and 8A champ every year is going to be a public school.  That's "domination" because the system skews it in that direction.
l would propose we just look at the state champions of classes 4A-8A.  Since the privates are at lower lower percentages in these classes, a disproportionate number of private state champions in these classes might be a sign of some unfair advantage.
And, just to keep things tidy, would appreciate it if we could start in 2011 when we went to 8 classes.  In classes 4A-8A since 2011, 35 state champions have been crowned(including any forfeitures).  10 of those championships went to private schools.  So 10/35 champions, or about 29%, were private school programs.  Is that disproportionate?  Yes, indeed.  So you are right, there are a disproportionate amount of private school championships! 
American Heritage (Plantation)-4(5A)
Bishop Moore -1(5A)
Bolles-1(4A)
St Thomas Aquinas -4(7A)
However, 8/10 were won by two schools.  And it is those two schools that really skew the numbers.  
As I stated in a prior post, I think it is more accurate to call out the few dominant, private schools who we think have an unfair advantage, rather than make generalizations, as some do, that "private schools dominate."  Even then, I think the folks at Aquinas have an argument that their academic and athletic programs are so excellent, they do not need to resort to recruiting or other funny business.  Kids want to go there, and their parents do, too.
...as far as public schools losing 1-2 players to private schools.  Nowadays, I think the shoe is just as likely to be on the other foot, with private school kids leaving to go to "better" public schools when it is in their best interest.  I shared the data on the original post to help us visualize the football scene in certain regions of the state.  Except for possibly Broward County, I am not totally convinced that "raiding" by private schools is having a profound effect on public school football performance.
...as far as "school(s)s much better than they should be for a school that size."  I see where you are coming from.  Relatively speaking, I don't think there are as many of these as some people may think.  There are relatively few private school programs who are routinely beating the bigger, public schools with solid football football programs.  I think there are some fine, small, private school programs, but I think they are often rated higher than they should be.  Is Madison County not "better than they should be?"  How about Booker T, Cocoa, Pahokee?  I can name a number of small, public schools who one could argue are "better than they should be."  I would like to think this is due to hard work, not raiding talent from nearby schools.  And I would say the same for some of the small, private schools.   
I think any of us get annoyed when we are not given the credit we think we are due.  Some have a perception that private schools are dripping with money and resources.  That is hardly the case.  I have been to public schools that look like the Taj Mahal compared to my old, private school.  And yeah, my tax dollars are paying for those kids to get a free education in a beautiful school, with a beautiful stadium, while I am also paying $15k/year for my kid to sit in a 50 year-old classroom with an unsafe chemistry lab and no stadium to play in .  Talk about an unfair advantage, and one much more important than an advantage on the field. 
It's an insult to the kids and the coaches to play the "private school card," as some do when the small privates win.  And it would be no different than someone crying foul when Madison County or Pahokee stomp a much bigger program.
My biggest beef with the whole private vs public kids debate is that it is not really about the kids.  We overblow these gross inequities to justify manipulation of the system for the sake of "fairness."  We deprive our kids of experiencing the excitement of playing in a playoff game against an age-old local rival now because, heaven forbid, if they lose to that little private school, it might scar the kid forever.  We make them drive 200 miles to play in a game because those guys down the street have an unfair advantage.  We put them in this football "bubble" that supposedly protects them from inequity.
For all you young  "grasshoppers" out there, it's the failures and losses that really build your character, not the victories. It's not the worst thing in the world to get humiliated by an American Heritage, but to do so with grace.  Hate to tell you this, but the "other" guy often has an unfair advantage, grasshoppers.  The quicker you learn that life lesson, the better you will get at dealing with it in a constructive manner, and the stronger you will be able to deal with adversity in your life.
     
  
 

Appreciate you asking, Gatorman!  Although private schools only represent 14%, we all know that those schools are not equally distributed amongst the 8 classes.  Simply due to the law of numbers, there is a very high probability that the state champions of classes 2A and 3A are going to be private schools.  So, there is a pretty good chance that you are going to have at least 2 private school champions each year.  Just like it wouldn't be a stretch to say that there is a pretty good chance that the 1A and 8A champ every year is going to be a public school.  That's "domination" because the system skews it in that direction.
l would propose we just look at the state champions of classes 4A-8A.  Since the privates are at lower lower percentages in these classes, a disproportionate number of private state champions in these classes might be a sign of some unfair advantage.
And, just to keep things tidy, would appreciate it if we could start in 2011 when we went to 8 classes.  In classes 4A-8A since 2011, 35 state champions have been crowned(including any forfeitures).  10 of those championships went to private schools.  So 10/35 champions, or about 29%, were private school programs.  Is that disproportionate?  Yes, indeed.  So you are right, there are a disproportionate amount of private school championships! 
American Heritage (Plantation)-4(5A)
Bishop Moore -1(5A)
Bolles-1(4A)
St Thomas Aquinas -4(7A)
However, 8/10 were won by two schools.  And it is those two schools that really skew the numbers.  
As I stated in a prior post, I think it is more accurate to call out the few dominant, private schools who we think have an unfair advantage, rather than make generalizations, as some do, that "private schools dominate."  Even then, I think the folks at Aquinas have an argument that their academic and athletic programs are so excellent, they do not need to resort to recruiting or other funny business.  Kids want to go there, and their parents do, too.
...as far as public schools losing 1-2 players to private schools.  Nowadays, I think the shoe is just as likely to be on the other foot, with private school kids leaving to go to "better" public schools when it is in their best interest.  I shared the data on the original post to help us visualize the football scene in certain regions of the state.  Except for possibly Broward County, I am not totally convinced that "raiding" by private schools is having a profound effect on public school football performance.
...as far as "school(s)s much better than they should be for a school that size."  I see where you are coming from.  Relatively speaking, I don't think there are as many of these as some people may think.  There are relatively few private school programs who are routinely beating the bigger, public schools with solid football football programs.  I think there are some fine, small, private school programs, but I think they are often rated higher than they should be.  Is Madison County not "better than they should be?"  How about Booker T, Cocoa, Pahokee?  I can name a number of small, public schools who one could argue are "better than they should be."  I would like to think this is due to hard work, not raiding talent from nearby schools.  And I would say the same for some of the small, private schools.   
I think any of us get annoyed when we are not given the credit we think we are due.  Some have a perception that private schools are dripping with money and resources.  That is hardly the case.  I have been to public schools that look like the Taj Mahal compared to my old, private school.  And yeah, my tax dollars are paying for those kids to get a free education in a beautiful school, with a beautiful stadium, while I am also paying $15k/year for my kid to sit in a 50 year-old classroom with an unsafe chemistry lab and no stadium to play in .  Talk about an unfair advantage, and one much more important than an advantage on the field. 
It's an insult to the kids and the coaches to play the "private school card," as some do when the small privates win.  And it would be no different than someone crying foul when Madison County or Pahokee stomp a much bigger program.
My biggest beef with the whole private vs public kids debate is that it is not really about the kids.  We overblow these gross inequities to justify manipulation of the system for the sake of "fairness."  We deprive our kids of experiencing the excitement of playing in a playoff game against an age-old local rival now because, heaven forbid, if they lose to that little private school, it might scar the kid forever.  We make them drive 200 miles to play in a game because those guys down the street have an unfair advantage.  We put them in this football "bubble" that supposedly protects them from inequity.
For all you young  "grasshoppers" out there, it's the failures and losses that really build your character, not the victories. It's not the worst thing in the world to get humiliated by an American Heritage, but to do so with grace.  Hate to tell you this, but the "other" guy often has an unfair advantage, grasshoppers.  The quicker you learn that life lesson, the better you will get at dealing with it in a constructive manner, and the stronger you will be able to deal with adversity in your life.
     
  
 

New Jersey
Separate playoffs for public and private schools since 1974. They have slowly moved public schools and private schools into separate conferences during the regular season as well so that private schools do not even have to play them during the regular season. It has made it very hard for the private schools to find opponents which is why they are often traveling across the country to find an opponent. 

As of 2015, there are only eight football-playing private schools in Mississippi - 4A St Stanislaus, 3A St Andrews, 2A St Patrick and Madison St Joseph, 1A Sacred Heart, Resurrection, French Camp Academy, and Tupelo Christian Prep. The other two private schools are Piney Woods, which has never fielded a football team, and Our Lady Academy which is an all-girls Catholic school in Bay St Louis.
The MHSAA adopted the enforcement of a rule in 2015 that forced three Catholic high schools (Greenville St Joseph, St Aloysius, and Cathedral) to join the MAIS - the private school league in MS. The rule forbade students from adjacent states from attending Mississippi private schools, as you noted - as all three of those schools border Louisiana and much of their student population resides there, they chose a different path with the MAIS which has 85 football playing schools (although several are 8-man), roughly 1/4 the size of MHSAA.
Private schools in MS rarely win championships in football - as a matter of fact, they have only three times since MS started their playoff system in 1981: St Stanislaus in 2009, French Camp in 2013, and Cathedral in 2014. The 2014 championship win by Cathedral created some serious sour grapes with the losing public school teams who claimed that Cathedral cheated by having out-of-state kids (nearly all of which had attended Cathedral since elementary school) - those sour grapes were the impetus for the rule.

Here is some information that describes how some other Southern states are handling the public vs private debate. 
TENNESSEE
The debate for the Tennessee Secondary School Athletic Association hit a boiling point in 1995 when private schools won three of the five state football championships, outscoring their public opponents by an average of 13 points.  Not long after, the TSSAA voted to create a new division for private schools which gave financial aid, and Division II was born in 1997. Division II crowned champions in two classes from 1997-2000 and 2007-16, and three from 2001-06. Beginning in 2004, the private schools that remained in Division I were subject to a 1.8 multiplier.  In September 2015, the TSAA broadened its definition of “financial assistance program” to include work-study programs. As a result, Division II’s football-playing membership will grow from 31 in 2016 to 47 beginning this season. Only six private schools will remain in Division I.  Division II has added a third class, AAA, for the upcoming season. It will be made up of the 11 teams with an enrollment of 531 or more. Class AA will have 19 teams with enrollments between 266-530, and Class A will be comprised of the 17 schools with an enrollment of less than 265.  There are two classifications for Division II in the other major sports (basketball, baseball, softball and volleyball), which cuts down on travel.  One coach who was interviewed brought up two issues with the Tennessee private football arrangement: Loss of rivalries with public schools and increased travel expenses. He noted that half of their six new football region opponents will require a 200-plus-mile round trip.  He also thought nine classifications in the state was too many.

GEORGIA
The Georgia High School Association used a 1.5 multiplier for private schools from 2000-08. Beginning in 2012, private schools in the state’s smallest classification -- 1A, or schools with 520 or fewer students – began competing in their own playoffs.  Public and private schools in the A class are grouped together for regular-season region play, then separated for the postseason. Seedings are determined by a power ratings system. There are 10 private schools outside of 1A, all of which fall in 2A through 4A in Georgia’s seven-class system.  Single-sex schools have their enrollment doubled for classification purposes.  Schools whose enrollment is more than 3 percent out-of-county students are moved up a class. Schools can request to move up in class.  Outside of 1A, five private schools have combined to win seven football state championships since 1989. Four of those titles have come in 2A after the creation of A-Private. Marist is the only private school to win a championship in one of the larger classifications, capturing Georgia’s second-largest division in 1989 (3A) and 2003 (4A).
ALABAMA
The Alabama High School Athletic Association became the nation’s first prep governing body to approve a multiplier, doing so in 1999. Since the 2000-01 school year, the enrollments of AHSAA private schools have been multiplied by 1.35. The resulting figure is used to determine classification, which often results in private schools being bumped up a class.  The change ultimately didn't scare private schools from signing up with the AHSAA, whose private-school membership has grown from 29 to 49 since the multiplier went into effect.  Compared to George, Alabama has relatively few private schools, some with very large populations, and others with very small populations.  This has made it difficult to create a 1A class similar to Georgia's. 

MISSISSIPPI
There are only 10 private school teams remaining in the Mississippi High School Activities Association. The majority of the state’s private schools are part of the Mississippi Association of Independent Schools.  The public vs. private debate in Mississippi has included a failed proposal to ban private schools from the MHSAA in 2013; three private schools leaving for the MAIS less than a month before the start of the 2015 season after the MHSAA upheld a rule banning out-of-state students from participating in sports; and a proposed 1.5 multiplier being narrowly voted down in 2015.  The MHSAA has six classifications in football. The last year a private school won a state football championship was 2014. 

A timely, insightful post.
One of the reasons why poor schools don't perform well in the all sports category in Florida is the fact many sports are either totally neglected or the kids don't turn out in the poorer schools. Thus, to take soccer as an example, while Oak Ridge and Evans in the Orlando area have a natural demographic (a lot of immigrants from Latin America and the Caribbean who play the sport at a high level), they have not fully lived up to their potential. Or in the case of baseball, African American kids don't participate in the sport much anymore due to dwindling participation in Little League. I am not sure whether it is funding at the school level or shifts in the wider society. To play soccer at a high level in the USA, participation in the "club circuit" is essential. Or with baseball, if you did not play little league, then trying to pick the sport up in high school unless the school has an exceptional staff is probably too late.
At the end of the day, it is probably America's loss and helps explain why despite over 300 million people, many with a natural affinity for soccer, we will never field a men's team that poses a serious threat to win the World Cup or even an Olympic medal in the sport.  

Below is an interesting article in which coaches who have coached for both public and private school football teams in Alabama speak out.  What really struck me is the discussion about economics.  One could argue that the big problem in high schools athletics is less of a public vs private thing, and more of a rich vs poor thing.  In other words, some private schools may be winning because they have more funding.  But the exact same can be said for the "richer" public programs.  
The following is a link to Florida's All-Sports Award winners.  http://www.fhsaa.org/news/2017/0614
A quick peak shows some interesting trends.  At the tops of the lists I see a number of affluent private schools and also some public schools frrm traditionally higher income areas.  I don't see a lot of schools from traditionally very poor areas, even though we know there are some very good athletes in their talent pool. 
For example, the scores of Ponte Vedra and Vero Beach blow many of the private schools around the state out of the water.  How do they do it?  Are they recruiting better than the privates?  If so, I don't hear many people complaining about it.  Or is it possible that superior athletic program funding can sometimes trump superior talent.  I have no idea what the budget is of those schools, but last time I was in those areas I saw some pretty fancy homes, if you know what I mean.         
 
'If it isn't broke, don't fix it:' Crossover coaches say private school allegations are false
Before he arrived at McGill-Toolen three years ago, Earnest Hill wasn’t sure what to think about private schools.
He admits he had preconceived notions about private schools’ perceived advantages.
“I think I looked at them like a lot of other coaches do now,” he said. “A lot of things people say about private schools are just not true. Once you get here, you see the difference. But if you haven’t been at a private school, you are always going to point fingers and make accusations.”
Hill, now McGill’s head football coach, is one of many coaches statewide who have been on both sides of the ongoing public vs. private school debate.
The Alabama High School Athletic Association has formed a Task Force to analyze competitive balance between the two when it comes to state championships.
The task force could recommend a change in bylaws to the AHSAA’s Central Board of Control as early as next month that could alter the landscape of AHSAA championship play. During the 2016-2017 school year, private schools won 38 of 111 championships but just four of 35 in the major team sports of football, boys and girls basketball, softball and baseball.
Officials agree that there’s a public perception that private schools enjoy an athletic advantage, but the task force is analyzing data to determine if that’s authentic and, if so, what should be done about it.
“I don’t see it as an advantage,” said Hill, who coached at Spanish Fort, Walker and Greenville – all public schools – before joining the McGill staff as defensive coordinator. “We have 1,100 kids. Hoover has more than 3,000 so who has the advantage? I spent 17 years in public schools, and I didn’t know anything about private schools.
“I don’t think we have the best athletes at McGill, but I do think we have great kids, a great atmosphere, a great curriculum and a great administration, so I guess maybe that is an edge. But we have our problems just like any other school.”
Steve Mask has led St. Paul’s to two Class 5A state football titles in the past three years. However, before landing on the Saints staff, he also spent time has head coach at Bradshaw, Buckhorn and Colbert County, all public schools in north Alabama.
“I basically think that if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it,” Mask said of the current AHSAA system, which includes a 1.35 multiplier for private schools. “The biggest complaint people have is the success a lot of schools are having. But if you just look at private schools, that is narrow-minded because there are some public schools having just as much success, and nobody is saying anything about it. If we are going to be a part of the same association, we should be under the same rules.”
The clear dividing line, Mask pointed out, sits between schools that are funded well – whether they are private or city systems – and schools that aren’t. In the past six years, city schools won more than 40 percent of the boys state titles, private schools more than 30 and county schools a little more than 20 percent.
Affluent schools, whether in suburban school districts or private schools, have found increased athletic success in the last decade.
“If you look at the state championships, I would bet 80 percent of the championships are won by 30 percent of the teams – public or private,” Mask said. “You could go through just about every sport and check off 10 or 15 schools that will have a chance to win the title in each class each year. In my mind, that is a tribute to both public and private schools that are doing everything they can to help their students succeed.”
Bayside Academy football coach Phil Lazenby has spent the last decade at the Class 3A private school in Daphne, winning 76 games and making the playoffs eight times. He led the Admirals to the state championship game in 2015.
His career also included stints at Benjamin Russell, Southside-Gadsden and Guntersville, including multiple trips to state championship games. He said believes there are schools breaking the rules but doesn’t believe it is a problem limited to private schools.
“(With this talk of changes) I think they are trying to placate a few schools that feel like some private schools are taking advantage of the situation,” he said. “We go through the exact same rules that everyone else does. If you get caught recruiting illegally, it is the same for public and private schools, and it goes on in both I can promise you.
“There are always coaches trying to find an edge and going out and getting kids from different schools and systems,” he continued. “I agree with the AHSAA that if recruiting is going on, something needs to be done about it. But it is happening on both sides of the fence.”
A pair of football coaches who had great success at McGill-Toolen – Bart Sessions and Caleb Ross – started their careers in public schools, went to McGill and have now returned to public school coaching and teaching.
Sessions emerged as one of the state’s most coveted assistant coaches at Prattville, Davidson and Daphne before accepting his first head coaching job at McGill-Toolen, the lone Catholic private school in Mobile. He is now in his first year as Gadsden City’s head coach.
“My opinion definitely changed when I got the McGill job,” he said. “I’m sure I thought all private schools were out recruiting and doing terrible things, but it definitely changes when you are at a private school. You see more the reality of it.”
Sessions said when he took over at McGill, he talked to some private school coaches who had been in public school, including UMS-Wright’s Terry Curtis.
“Terry told me from the start that you are going to be accused of recruiting every day as a private school coach,” Sessions said. “But he said if you have a great program, it will recruit itself and that is the case whether you are coaching in public or private school. I think there is a lot more recruiting going on in public schools than private schools today.”
Ross spent time as an assistant at Prattville and Spanish Fort and served one year as head coach at Thompson before succeeding Sessions as head coach at McGill. He was hired earlier this year to lead the Opelika football program.
“I think there are a lot of unknowns if you haven’t been on the private school side,” he said. “You hear things all the time that quite frankly aren’t true. It’s unfair to say that private schools recruit all these athletes. It’s just such a blanket statement. When I was at McGill, we never recruited and we never had to. Kids wanted to come to McGill, and their parents wanted them there not just for athletics but for the academics and moral structure as well.”
So does there need to be a change in rules to level the playing field? There is certainly a contingent, led by state Rep. Ritchie Whorton (R-Owens Cross Roads), who believes so. Whorton proposed a bill during the last Legislative session that would mandate separate championships for public and private schools.
The bill never reached a floor vote, but it appears the AHSAA will make some type of adjustment for private schools by the next reclassification in January. Sessions said he believes there is an easier solution than adopting a new rule or rules.
“I think we already have great rules,” he said. “The rules are clear in what you can or cannot do as it pertains to recruiting. Unfortunately, there always have been a few bad apples who skirt the rules. If we can enforce the rules we have on the book, then I think everything is fine. I realize that is easier said than done.
“We made some positive strides with the enforcement staff that has been hired,” he continued, referring to the AHSAA’s new Investigations Unit. “It just takes one prominent school or coach to get nailed, and it all stops or slows down. Every coach can tell you it happens and pretty much knows who is doing it. If those guys get caught and accused and have to sit out a year or whatever, I think everyone will take notice.”
 

Below is an interesting article in which coaches who have coached for both public and private school football teams in Alabama speak out.  What really struck me is the discussion about economics.  One could argue that the big problem in high schools athletics is less of a public vs private thing, and more of a rich vs poor thing.  In other words, some private schools may be winning because they have more funding.  But the exact same can be said for the "richer" public programs.  
The following is a link to Florida's All-Sports Award winners.  http://www.fhsaa.org/news/2017/0614
A quick peak shows some interesting trends.  At the tops of the lists I see a number of affluent private schools and also some public schools frrm traditionally higher income areas.  I don't see a lot of schools from traditionally very poor areas, even though we know there are some very good athletes in their talent pool. 
For example, the scores of Ponte Vedra and Vero Beach blow many of the private schools around the state out of the water.  How do they do it?  Are they recruiting better than the privates?  If so, I don't hear many people complaining about it.  Or is it possible that superior athletic program funding can sometimes trump superior talent.  I have no idea what the budget is of those schools, but last time I was in those areas I saw some pretty fancy homes, if you know what I mean.         
 
'If it isn't broke, don't fix it:' Crossover coaches say private school allegations are false
Before he arrived at McGill-Toolen three years ago, Earnest Hill wasn’t sure what to think about private schools.
He admits he had preconceived notions about private schools’ perceived advantages.
“I think I looked at them like a lot of other coaches do now,” he said. “A lot of things people say about private schools are just not true. Once you get here, you see the difference. But if you haven’t been at a private school, you are always going to point fingers and make accusations.”
Hill, now McGill’s head football coach, is one of many coaches statewide who have been on both sides of the ongoing public vs. private school debate.
The Alabama High School Athletic Association has formed a Task Force to analyze competitive balance between the two when it comes to state championships.
The task force could recommend a change in bylaws to the AHSAA’s Central Board of Control as early as next month that could alter the landscape of AHSAA championship play. During the 2016-2017 school year, private schools won 38 of 111 championships but just four of 35 in the major team sports of football, boys and girls basketball, softball and baseball.
Officials agree that there’s a public perception that private schools enjoy an athletic advantage, but the task force is analyzing data to determine if that’s authentic and, if so, what should be done about it.
“I don’t see it as an advantage,” said Hill, who coached at Spanish Fort, Walker and Greenville – all public schools – before joining the McGill staff as defensive coordinator. “We have 1,100 kids. Hoover has more than 3,000 so who has the advantage? I spent 17 years in public schools, and I didn’t know anything about private schools.
“I don’t think we have the best athletes at McGill, but I do think we have great kids, a great atmosphere, a great curriculum and a great administration, so I guess maybe that is an edge. But we have our problems just like any other school.”
Steve Mask has led St. Paul’s to two Class 5A state football titles in the past three years. However, before landing on the Saints staff, he also spent time has head coach at Bradshaw, Buckhorn and Colbert County, all public schools in north Alabama.
“I basically think that if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it,” Mask said of the current AHSAA system, which includes a 1.35 multiplier for private schools. “The biggest complaint people have is the success a lot of schools are having. But if you just look at private schools, that is narrow-minded because there are some public schools having just as much success, and nobody is saying anything about it. If we are going to be a part of the same association, we should be under the same rules.”
The clear dividing line, Mask pointed out, sits between schools that are funded well – whether they are private or city systems – and schools that aren’t. In the past six years, city schools won more than 40 percent of the boys state titles, private schools more than 30 and county schools a little more than 20 percent.
Affluent schools, whether in suburban school districts or private schools, have found increased athletic success in the last decade.
“If you look at the state championships, I would bet 80 percent of the championships are won by 30 percent of the teams – public or private,” Mask said. “You could go through just about every sport and check off 10 or 15 schools that will have a chance to win the title in each class each year. In my mind, that is a tribute to both public and private schools that are doing everything they can to help their students succeed.”
Bayside Academy football coach Phil Lazenby has spent the last decade at the Class 3A private school in Daphne, winning 76 games and making the playoffs eight times. He led the Admirals to the state championship game in 2015.
His career also included stints at Benjamin Russell, Southside-Gadsden and Guntersville, including multiple trips to state championship games. He said believes there are schools breaking the rules but doesn’t believe it is a problem limited to private schools.
“(With this talk of changes) I think they are trying to placate a few schools that feel like some private schools are taking advantage of the situation,” he said. “We go through the exact same rules that everyone else does. If you get caught recruiting illegally, it is the same for public and private schools, and it goes on in both I can promise you.
“There are always coaches trying to find an edge and going out and getting kids from different schools and systems,” he continued. “I agree with the AHSAA that if recruiting is going on, something needs to be done about it. But it is happening on both sides of the fence.”
A pair of football coaches who had great success at McGill-Toolen – Bart Sessions and Caleb Ross – started their careers in public schools, went to McGill and have now returned to public school coaching and teaching.
Sessions emerged as one of the state’s most coveted assistant coaches at Prattville, Davidson and Daphne before accepting his first head coaching job at McGill-Toolen, the lone Catholic private school in Mobile. He is now in his first year as Gadsden City’s head coach.
“My opinion definitely changed when I got the McGill job,” he said. “I’m sure I thought all private schools were out recruiting and doing terrible things, but it definitely changes when you are at a private school. You see more the reality of it.”
Sessions said when he took over at McGill, he talked to some private school coaches who had been in public school, including UMS-Wright’s Terry Curtis.
“Terry told me from the start that you are going to be accused of recruiting every day as a private school coach,” Sessions said. “But he said if you have a great program, it will recruit itself and that is the case whether you are coaching in public or private school. I think there is a lot more recruiting going on in public schools than private schools today.”
Ross spent time as an assistant at Prattville and Spanish Fort and served one year as head coach at Thompson before succeeding Sessions as head coach at McGill. He was hired earlier this year to lead the Opelika football program.
“I think there are a lot of unknowns if you haven’t been on the private school side,” he said. “You hear things all the time that quite frankly aren’t true. It’s unfair to say that private schools recruit all these athletes. It’s just such a blanket statement. When I was at McGill, we never recruited and we never had to. Kids wanted to come to McGill, and their parents wanted them there not just for athletics but for the academics and moral structure as well.”
So does there need to be a change in rules to level the playing field? There is certainly a contingent, led by state Rep. Ritchie Whorton (R-Owens Cross Roads), who believes so. Whorton proposed a bill during the last Legislative session that would mandate separate championships for public and private schools.
The bill never reached a floor vote, but it appears the AHSAA will make some type of adjustment for private schools by the next reclassification in January. Sessions said he believes there is an easier solution than adopting a new rule or rules.
“I think we already have great rules,” he said. “The rules are clear in what you can or cannot do as it pertains to recruiting. Unfortunately, there always have been a few bad apples who skirt the rules. If we can enforce the rules we have on the book, then I think everything is fine. I realize that is easier said than done.
“We made some positive strides with the enforcement staff that has been hired,” he continued, referring to the AHSAA’s new Investigations Unit. “It just takes one prominent school or coach to get nailed, and it all stops or slows down. Every coach can tell you it happens and pretty much knows who is doing it. If those guys get caught and accused and have to sit out a year or whatever, I think everyone will take notice.”
 

Am not sure if Georgia does invest any more dollars in athletics than Florida.  I didn't see too many fancy facilities there outside the big metro areas.  In fact, not one state in the South invests in education at or above the national average.    
We all know Texas is a big football state.  Over 50% of public school funding there comes from local property taxes.  And their state senate now wants to take $1.8 billion out of the state budget and recoup that through additional property taxes.  Texas already has the second highest property taxes in the country and residents there, on average, pay twice as much in Florida residents .  Maybe for that reason, people there feel invested in the schools.
So, the answer is easy.  Just write your congressman and tell him you think we should raise property taxes in Florida to provide additional public school funding, so we can have megastadiums like Texas.  
 
 
 

Am not sure if Georgia does invest any more dollars in athletics than Florida.  I didn't see too many fancy facilities there outside the big metro areas.  In fact, not one state in the South invests in education at or above the national average.    
We all know Texas is a big football state.  Over 50% of public school funding there comes from local property taxes.  And their state senate now wants to take $1.8 billion out of the state budget and recoup that through additional property taxes.  Texas already has the second highest property taxes in the country and residents there, on average, pay twice as much in Florida residents .  Maybe for that reason, people there feel invested in the schools.
So, the answer is easy.  Just write your congressman and tell him you think we should raise property taxes in Florida to provide additional public school funding, so we can have megastadiums like Texas.  
 
 
 

I see your point and am familiar with both of those areas.  
Peach County is a tiny, rural county in central Georgia.  You could fit 4 Peach County's in Sumter County.  The entire county has a population about the same as that of Immokalee.  There are some very good private schools within driving distance of Peach County who Peach County High has to compete against for athletes.  They routinely play against some strong teams from the Warner Robins/Macon metro area, including Warner Robins High, who has won a mythical national championship.
Colquitt County is a very rural county in southern Georgia that is somewhat geographically isolated.  The total population of the county is about 1.5 times the size of Immokalee, and MUCH smaller than Sumter County.  Historically, Colquitt County HS has played in a brutal region with teams like Lowndes, Valdosta and Camden County.     
Despite the limited talent pools and tough competition, the records of both schools over the past 10 years are always impressive.  Both teams have won multiple state championships and they are ALWAYS very competitive.  There are other stories like these, too.  I guess the question is, "How do they do it?"  and why cannot some of the Florida programs do the same?  
I think the answer to "how?"  is...the local communities rally behind their teams, the youth programs gear the kids for success, and there are intense rivalries with other schools that bring people out to the games (unlike Florida where I think we have lost many good rivalries due to all of the changes in classifications and other politics).  Drive through rural Georgia on a Friday night during football season and you will hear multiple high school football games on the radio at the same time.   
 
 
  

I spent a fair number of years in Georgia and followed high school football there, and have a number of years of Florida experience.  In all classes in Georgia, teams are assigned to regions and play a certain number of games against region opponents throughout the year.   
I struggle with this concept of the smaller Florida schools not playing anyone in their region and having to drum up their own competition.  Has the rationalization(s) used to justify this approach given the result that was desired?
...concerning the public vs private debate, which drives some of the discussion surrounding classifications.
Am really generalizing here, but I think there is more overall parity in Georgia.   In my opinion, as a whole, public schools take football much more seriously than in Florida.  This is especially evident to me in the more populated areas of Florida.  Outside Buford, public schools in Georgia still have the upper hand over the privates that play in the larger classes. 
No doubt private schools in Florida have some advantages, but I think the domination by some of these privates over public schools would not be seen to the same extent if those same schools were playing in Georgia.  Marist is a VERY old private school in Atlanta with an outstanding football tradition.  And they can certainly "recruit."  They play in 4A amongst a lot of public schools.  They have only won one state title in 25 years.  
I don't think I would be out of line saying that Chaminade and Oxford would dominate a high percentage of public schools in Florida, even those in 7A and 8A.  I can think of a LOT of public school programs in Georgia who could give them a good game, if not beat them. 
Over the years, I have heard some folks in Florida speak of the need to separate the privates.  I've seen a number of gyrations of late to try to balance the playing field.  I don't completely buy it.  Despite the phenomenal talent in Florida, I have seen a LOT of very mediocre public school teams in Florida.  And I sometimes wonder if the folks making these arguments are related to these teams. 
Here's a radical concept .  How about focusing energy on getting better and getting the communities behind the teams rather than these constant maneuvers to level the playing field.  And if Florida's loose transfer policy(s) are allowing "superteams" to form, fix the root of the problem.    
When I lived in Georgia, I was amazed at how tied into the communities the local coaches were(outreach activities) and how much support they got in the local communities.  When I lived in Polk County years ago, a lot of people couldn't tell you the name of a certain school's coach, but they could tell you that if you got near their field you would get cussed out by him.  ...sad.    
On a final note, I saw South Sumter had an abysmal season after much success over the years.  And what happened to football in Tallahassee?  Am sure there are a number of factors that played into this, but after living in Georgia, I can say with confidence that the local communities would be offering "lots of help" if that happened there.  Makes me wonder if there are some parallels with Florida's fickle fan population.  
We all know life is not a fair playing field.  Your only option to "win a trophy" in life is usually just to improve yourself, not to "create another classification."  I say let the kids get used to it.  As much as Florida's population continues to grow, we are going to be up to 10 classifications in no time if we cannot figure out others ways to things more competitive.  
 

I'm going to be signing off for a bit to focus on other life responsibilities after this post; however, I wanted to give some general thoughts on 2018 since questions are already being asked. Who are my personal top 5 teams going into 3A for Spring 2018? Keep in mind that these are just random thoughts BEFORE these teams get their transfers..which we know are coming.. it's really to early to have this discussion until we know who is playing where, but when has that ever stopped me in the past? Well.. never!

Here you go:

1) Chaminade-Madonna:  Despite the graduation loss of some key offensive (and defensive) players- this is still the best team in 3A until a 3A team beats them. They could have the best secondary in the state and they're just bigger than everybody else in 3A next year on the lines. The offense will need some tweaking without the game breaker WR's and Shaun Shivers- but there's enough still here to be the best team.

2) Oxbridge Academy: The Thunderwolves have a lot of talent to replace and it remains to be seen if the administration will let transfers come in to ease the burden of replacing some amazing athletes. The north of 3A will be competitive, but I don't see any stellar teams thus even an average Oxbridge team should find their way back to Orlando unless one of the teams in the north picks up some transfers and hits their stride. Gio Richardson has really made himself a household name and James Meeks will push for top RB in 3A next year.

3) Clearwater Central Catholic: The Marauders did what they needed to do in 2017. They survived a huge graduating 2016 class and also survived a mass exodus of talent. On paper, last year's CCC team should have been 4-6 with running clock losses in 5 of the 10 games. 2018 will be far more kind to CCC, first- I don't see them losing any players to Calvary Christian and second, they have an amazing core group of players returning.

4) American Heritage Delray:  Chaminade ran all over AHD last year, but with the horses the Stallions have returning in addition the coaching staff they're rumored to be assembling is there any doubt this will be one of the most improved teams in 3A. The Stallions have taken their lumps in previous years, but I think 2018 is the year this team finally puts it together and puts their name back into the state championship conversation.

5) Tampa Catholic: Tampa Catholic will have a very explosive offense, maybe push for the top offense in all of 3A next year. TC brings back their entire offense except for 2 offensive linemen in tact. Arhmeran Brown, Jalen Bussey and Joseph Hodge alongside QB Charlie Dean make up a terrific group of offensive athletes. TC has the athletes, linemen and coaching to challenge Chaminade. Actually, TC beat Chaminade in 2009; so, there is history there if the two teams meet. I have it on good authority that TC should be picking up multiple transfers from local teams and even dip into Pinellas county for a few transfers.

Teams that were good in 2017 that I think may take a step back in 2018:

1) Calvary Christian (Clearwater): Calvary Christian finished with the best record in school history and was a regional finalist in the highly competitive region 3. But, what do you do for an encore? With Amari Burney, Deandre Ferguson, Jacque Sarnoff, QB Alex Laccube and a host of others graduating it's hard to see where this team will end up without significant assistance.  The Warriors do have a couple of solid offensive linemen returning, but who will they be blocking for? The top RB on the team, River Wood transferred out. Calvary won 7 games in 2017, but right now it's hard seeing them duplicate that performance going forward.

2) Melbourne Central Catholic:  The Hustlers finished 2017 with a 7-4 record, but they played a very difficult schedule. In 2017 MCC was briefly in the state championship discussion and had a loaded roster with high expectations from 2016's state final 4 finish.  MCC graduates a bulk of their talent including QB Joaqun Collazo and WR Lorenzo Hardy.  So. running back LaAnthony Valentine will see a significant increase in minutes as well.  MCC was a stout, solid and fun team to watch for the past few seasons- there are a lot of questions about where the team goes from here as they will need to rebuild.


Outside of the teams listed above- I think Florida High (FSU School) will win a bit more consistently next year. Jarrod Hickman's program took some lumps early, but found themselves in the state final 4. This is a team that only graduates 6 seniors and brings a bulk of their talent back.  Berkeley Prep is an enigma- they bring back some really good talent, but also graduate a lot of talent. I'm not sure where they end up right now. I'm not sure where Taylor County (Perry) ends up either. Ft. White is a team I plan on keeping an eye on a bit more in the off-season. The Indians need to replace some key talent on the line, but this is a quality program that just fell shy this year. Orlando First Academy went undefeated in the regular season to finish as the top seed in region 2, but ran into a tough MCC team. What happens to them? They have a small senior class, but the seniors they need to replace are key names.

Lastly, the question that I'm really interested in is scheduling. Scheduling is done mostly in 2 year intervals, but many 3A teams chose to only do 1 year agreements from the coaches I've interacted with.  I can see Oxbridge and Chaminade picking up out-of-state games. Tampa Catholic I believe is in talks with a team from the north as well.  Curious to see if MCC continues to play out of state. 

Alright, I'm done! For my brother and husband, have a Merry Christmas and happy new year!  :-D

 

Was sharing the talent outlook for next year just for kicks. 
I find it ironic that some of the bigger, public schools will not play some of the small privates now.  I share the following for some of the younger folks on the forum who may not have a limited historical perspective.  For MANY years, some private schools "played up" and got the snot beat out of them by the bigger public schools or had tremendous odds against them to ever win a state championship.  The existence of multiple, small, powerhouse private schools dominating in one season is a relatively new phenomenon.
As you'll see below, except for Bolles and Aquinas, no private schools ever got past the public schools in the larger classifications for many years.  
1969-1984, 4 classes, no private school won a state championship outside the lowest classification  
1985-1993, 5 classes(1A-5A), below are the state titles won by private schools in classes 2A-5A
1986 2A Bolles
1990 2A Bolles
1992 4A Aquinas
1993 3A Bolles
1994-2002, 5 classes(2A-6A), below are the state titles won by private schools in classes 3A-6A
1995 4A Bolles
1997 5A Aquinas
1998 3A Bolles
1999 4A Aquinas
For many years, some private schools were the doormats used to fill the schedule.  Between 1980-2000, Chaminade had poor-to-average teams for the most part.  I don't believe Cardinal Gibbons had a lot of success then either.  For years these teams sucked it up and got beat, and now that the tables have turned, it sounds as if some of those teams who pounded them in the past are saying "no thanks."
I can hear some saying, "But playing them nowadays has higher stakes with the playoff scheme."  Rest assured, there were big stakes back then.  There were some small, good private school teams playing in the big boy leagues whose choice to do so likely cost them a trip to the playoffs.    
So, some of the older private schools having success now paid their dues.  If it was OK to beat up on them for 20 years, it should be OK to give them a chance to exact some revenge for a while.   
We usually don't get to stack the deck in our favor in adulthood, so why not let the kids learn some good life lessons-the exhilaration of winning against the odds and the pride in knowing you chose to face the strongest foe, even when things don't work out.  Must be a bitter pill this year for those kids at Booker T, but bet they will look upon things with a different perspective when they get older.  Bravo to that coach for taking the high road.    
    
              

Was sharing the talent outlook for next year just for kicks. 
I find it ironic that some of the bigger, public schools will not play some of the small privates now.  I share the following for some of the younger folks on the forum who may not have a limited historical perspective.  For MANY years, some private schools "played up" and got the snot beat out of them by the bigger public schools or had tremendous odds against them to ever win a state championship.  The existence of multiple, small, powerhouse private schools dominating in one season is a relatively new phenomenon.
As you'll see below, except for Bolles and Aquinas, no private schools ever got past the public schools in the larger classifications for many years.  
1969-1984, 4 classes, no private school won a state championship outside the lowest classification  
1985-1993, 5 classes(1A-5A), below are the state titles won by private schools in classes 2A-5A
1986 2A Bolles
1990 2A Bolles
1992 4A Aquinas
1993 3A Bolles
1994-2002, 5 classes(2A-6A), below are the state titles won by private schools in classes 3A-6A
1995 4A Bolles
1997 5A Aquinas
1998 3A Bolles
1999 4A Aquinas
For many years, some private schools were the doormats used to fill the schedule.  Between 1980-2000, Chaminade had poor-to-average teams for the most part.  I don't believe Cardinal Gibbons had a lot of success then either.  For years these teams sucked it up and got beat, and now that the tables have turned, it sounds as if some of those teams who pounded them in the past are saying "no thanks."
I can hear some saying, "But playing them nowadays has higher stakes with the playoff scheme."  Rest assured, there were big stakes back then.  There were some small, good private school teams playing in the big boy leagues whose choice to do so likely cost them a trip to the playoffs.    
So, some of the older private schools having success now paid their dues.  If it was OK to beat up on them for 20 years, it should be OK to give them a chance to exact some revenge for a while.   
We usually don't get to stack the deck in our favor in adulthood, so why not let the kids learn some good life lessons-the exhilaration of winning against the odds and the pride in knowing you chose to face the strongest foe, even when things don't work out.  Must be a bitter pill this year for those kids at Booker T, but bet they will look upon things with a different perspective when they get older.  Bravo to that coach for taking the high road.    
    
              

Chaminade's defense will be reloading, and should feature a lot of talented seniors.   Concerning the secondary, the four named above all have D1 offers.  As if that is not enough, they also have Ahmaud Jordan and James Williams, both seniors-to-be with D1 offers who could play as defensive backs.   Florida commit Cameron Williams will be a beast next year at DE, and junior-to-be DT  William Moise, who already has multiple D1 offers, can replace some of the beef Chaminade is losing on the D-line.
On offense, Menard is ranked in the top 15 qb's in the state by qbhitlist.  The O-line should be solid, with four seniors and anchored by 6'3" 320 lb Jimmy Nixon.  There should be at least two others in the 300-pound or greater range.  Thad Franklin, a freshman who already has D1 offers, can serve as running back.  He is already listed at 6' 190 as a sophomore, so it will be a very different look compared to Shivers.  He got playing time at qb this year whan Menard was injured.  Chaminade has three talented sophomores at WR who all saw playing time.  One is 6'3 and am guessing he will be getting a lot of attention next year from scouts. 
And, of course, who knows what transfers they might pick up now that they are state champs.  I don't see any glaring holes next year and could definitely see them back in the state championship game with a host of D1 recruits.  The biggest challenge will likely be replacing Shivers and what had to be one of the most talented receiving corps in the state.    
  
 

Was sharing the talent outlook for next year just for kicks. 
I find it ironic that some of the bigger, public schools will not play some of the small privates now.  I share the following for some of the younger folks on the forum who may not have a limited historical perspective.  For MANY years, some private schools "played up" and got the snot beat out of them by the bigger public schools or had tremendous odds against them to ever win a state championship.  The existence of multiple, small, powerhouse private schools dominating in one season is a relatively new phenomenon.
As you'll see below, except for Bolles and Aquinas, no private schools ever got past the public schools in the larger classifications for many years.  
1969-1984, 4 classes, no private school won a state championship outside the lowest classification  
1985-1993, 5 classes(1A-5A), below are the state titles won by private schools in classes 2A-5A
1986 2A Bolles
1990 2A Bolles
1992 4A Aquinas
1993 3A Bolles
1994-2002, 5 classes(2A-6A), below are the state titles won by private schools in classes 3A-6A
1995 4A Bolles
1997 5A Aquinas
1998 3A Bolles
1999 4A Aquinas
For many years, some private schools were the doormats used to fill the schedule.  Between 1980-2000, Chaminade had poor-to-average teams for the most part.  I don't believe Cardinal Gibbons had a lot of success then either.  For years these teams sucked it up and got beat, and now that the tables have turned, it sounds as if some of those teams who pounded them in the past are saying "no thanks."
I can hear some saying, "But playing them nowadays has higher stakes with the playoff scheme."  Rest assured, there were big stakes back then.  There were some small, good private school teams playing in the big boy leagues whose choice to do so likely cost them a trip to the playoffs.    
So, some of the older private schools having success now paid their dues.  If it was OK to beat up on them for 20 years, it should be OK to give them a chance to exact some revenge for a while.   
We usually don't get to stack the deck in our favor in adulthood, so why not let the kids learn some good life lessons-the exhilaration of winning against the odds and the pride in knowing you chose to face the strongest foe, even when things don't work out.  Must be a bitter pill this year for those kids at Booker T, but bet they will look upon things with a different perspective when they get older.  Bravo to that coach for taking the high road.    
    
              

Was sharing the talent outlook for next year just for kicks. 
I find it ironic that some of the bigger, public schools will not play some of the small privates now.  I share the following for some of the younger folks on the forum who may not have a limited historical perspective.  For MANY years, some private schools "played up" and got the snot beat out of them by the bigger public schools or had tremendous odds against them to ever win a state championship.  The existence of multiple, small, powerhouse private schools dominating in one season is a relatively new phenomenon.
As you'll see below, except for Bolles and Aquinas, no private schools ever got past the public schools in the larger classifications for many years.  
1969-1984, 4 classes, no private school won a state championship outside the lowest classification  
1985-1993, 5 classes(1A-5A), below are the state titles won by private schools in classes 2A-5A
1986 2A Bolles
1990 2A Bolles
1992 4A Aquinas
1993 3A Bolles
1994-2002, 5 classes(2A-6A), below are the state titles won by private schools in classes 3A-6A
1995 4A Bolles
1997 5A Aquinas
1998 3A Bolles
1999 4A Aquinas
For many years, some private schools were the doormats used to fill the schedule.  Between 1980-2000, Chaminade had poor-to-average teams for the most part.  I don't believe Cardinal Gibbons had a lot of success then either.  For years these teams sucked it up and got beat, and now that the tables have turned, it sounds as if some of those teams who pounded them in the past are saying "no thanks."
I can hear some saying, "But playing them nowadays has higher stakes with the playoff scheme."  Rest assured, there were big stakes back then.  There were some small, good private school teams playing in the big boy leagues whose choice to do so likely cost them a trip to the playoffs.    
So, some of the older private schools having success now paid their dues.  If it was OK to beat up on them for 20 years, it should be OK to give them a chance to exact some revenge for a while.   
We usually don't get to stack the deck in our favor in adulthood, so why not let the kids learn some good life lessons-the exhilaration of winning against the odds and the pride in knowing you chose to face the strongest foe, even when things don't work out.  Must be a bitter pill this year for those kids at Booker T, but bet they will look upon things with a different perspective when they get older.  Bravo to that coach for taking the high road.    
    
              

posted two minutes ago on Prepforce
 
We get our wish!!! Miami Northwestern will play Chandler in the Geico Bowl Series game.

posted two minutes ago on Prepforce
 
We get our wish!!! Miami Northwestern will play Chandler in the Geico Bowl Series game.

You're correct, that's a lot of talent returning.  But, my point isn't about Chaminade's talent which we're in agreement with- as long as the Step-Up Scholarship and McKay Scholarship's are available- Chaminade will use it to get guys in, like all private school do. My point is, who is Chaminade going to play?  The Lions are about 1 year away from being forced into 5A the way that JaxTCA was. I've already spoken to multiple coaches in the Miami/Broward area and none of them are willing to play Chaminade again unless they're a national powerhouse (AH-P, Miami Northwestern). My point is also, Chaminade is talented- but I can see some blowouts if they have to play a national schedule, the 2017 could handle it- the 2018 team, remains to be seen.

The key to Chaminade's success from what I've seen and spoken to their coaches about is that the team isn't completely built from transfers. They have a core group of guys that rose together through the tough times and put Chaminade on their back and ended their career's with a well deserved championship. I don't see nearly the same desire in the underclassmen that I did the seniors, even Shivers called them out publicly for being selfish on twitter midway through the season.

As a fan, I wanted to root for Chaminade. A lot of those guys have lost family members in brutal ways- you wanted to root for them if you know their personal stories.  Those guys cared and put their heart into it- it wasn't a championship is was the fulfillment of a promise they made to each other.  Don't get me wrong- I still have Chaminade as #1 until a 3A team beats them and I hope they continue to win, it makes 3A look good.





 

Chaminade's defense will be reloading, and should feature a lot of talented seniors.   Concerning the secondary, the four named above all have D1 offers.  As if that is not enough, they also have Ahmaud Jordan and James Williams, both seniors-to-be with D1 offers who could play as defensive backs.   Florida commit Cameron Williams will be a beast next year at DE, and junior-to-be DT  William Moise, who already has multiple D1 offers, can replace some of the beef Chaminade is losing on the D-line.
On offense, Menard is ranked in the top 15 qb's in the state by qbhitlist.  The O-line should be solid, with four seniors and anchored by 6'3" 320 lb Jimmy Nixon.  There should be at least two others in the 300-pound or greater range.  Thad Franklin, a freshman who already has D1 offers, can serve as running back.  He is already listed at 6' 190 as a sophomore, so it will be a very different look compared to Shivers.  He got playing time at qb this year whan Menard was injured.  Chaminade has three talented sophomores at WR who all saw playing time.  One is 6'3 and am guessing he will be getting a lot of attention next year from scouts. 
And, of course, who knows what transfers they might pick up now that they are state champs.  I don't see any glaring holes next year and could definitely see them back in the state championship game with a host of D1 recruits.  The biggest challenge will likely be replacing Shivers and what had to be one of the most talented receiving corps in the state.