Perspective
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Posts posted by Perspective
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1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:
I updated the list in the original post. Interesting that both Casteel and Dean are going to Harvard. Florida may not produce many college qb's, but apparently we produce smart ones! Also interesting that the colleges tended to favor the pro-style qb's.
And whichever one doesn't win the starting job by his junior year will transfer to Princeton.
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21 hours ago, Coach said:
Georgia has a 6-quarter rule and it starts on Friday. So, if a kid doesn’t play at all on Friday night they can play a full Freshman/JV game the following week.
I can see it being a pain, but your Friday night kids aren’t likely to play JV ball on a Thursday unless they’re like third-teamers.
Keeping track of it sounds like a nightmare though...
Hmmm, that also means a kid could play 4 quarters in a JV game on Thursday night and then turn around and play 4 quarters in the varsity game the following night, since the "new week" starts on Friday, right? Again, you wouldn't think a coach would go into the week thinking this, but what if the varsity team loses a couple of starters to injuries mid-way through the first quarter and the kid who played the JV game the night before is the proverbial 'next man up' at that position?
For anyone who ever coached Little League All-Stars, you know how hard it is to make sure that every kid gets their required defensive inning(s) and at-bats. High school football coaches would be in the same position. I can just see the finger-pointing that's going to go on when a varsity team has to forfeit a game because the JV coach told the varsity coach that James only played 2 quarters in the JV game because some parent volunteer got distracted at that JV game by a neighbor with some juicy gossip and forgot to mark down that James played in that one Jumbo package in the 3rd quarter when the team needed to pick up a crucial 4th down.
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That 6-quarter rule is going to be an administrative nightmare for somebody. Does one play in a quarter constitute playing in that quarter? Who's going to keep track of how many plays and in which quarters a kid played? I can't wait until the end of the year when some team comes forward claiming a kid played in more than 6 quarters in a week and that this should result in a forfeit for the kid's team, which then results in a loss for that team, which then changes the Category a team is in, which then affects another teams Power Ranking Average, which then determines who makes the playoffs (or, if the new rules are in place, affects a team's RPI, which then determines who gets into the playoffs and/or who gets to host and who has to travel).
I can see it now. "Uh, Mr. HUDL, there's a process server at the door with a subpoena who needs digital copies of all your varsity and JV game film on Random High School to determine if Johnny Jones played in more than 6 quarters in any week this past season."
Administrative nightmares aside, what's a reasonable recovery period? In most counties, don't they play JV games on Thursdays and Varsity games on Fridays? Playing in two games on back-to-back nights is going to be hard on kids. Yeah, I understand that kids who play 4 quarters of a JV game one night aren't likely to get much playing time the next night in the varsity game. And kids who are expected to play 4 quarters of a varsity game probably won't be asked to play much in the JV game the night before. But, still... coaches looking to gain an edge or win a game have been known to do things that aren't necessarily in every kids' best interests.
By the way, how are OT's handled? Are they considered an extra quarter?
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20 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:
Well, everyone, the game was a yawner, but at least we got to see that thrilling halftime show.
I am glad to see college football is making an effort to reach mainstream America.
This is what you would get if the Hamburglar and the homeless lady from Home Alone 2 had a baby.
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On 1/4/2019 at 1:07 PM, peezy28 said:
Armwood started their dominance in 03.. before that not so much.. Were a regular 1st round playoff exit team.
Plant of course came soon after (Plant guys help me out was it 05?) but before Robert W got there the school was not very good for the most part.
Peezy, I believe Plant was 1-9 in 2003. Robert Weiner became the coach in 2004 and the team went 3-7. In 2005, Plant went 9-3. And in 2006, in Coach Weiner's third year as head coach, Plant went 15-0 and won the State Championship (with Marve as the QB). I'd have to do some digging to give you the team's record for 2002 and earlier.
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1 hour ago, FL_HS_football said:
Must we do this over and over again lamenting about everything one doesn't like, these things come and go in cycles.......you want proof, well lets look the cycles that have occurred over the years:
* From 1869 - 1900 the National Champion came from a Ivy League school (that's right 31 straight years, I guess that wasn't good for college football?)
* 1901 - 1904 Michigan either won or tied for the National Championships with a Ivy League School
* 1905 - 1015 The National Championship was either won or tied by the Ivy Leagues once again 9 times
* 1916 - 1919 There was relative parity as the Championship was won or tied by 7 different teams
* 1920 - 1922 The National Championship was either won or tied by the University of California
* 1923 - 1930 There was relative parity other than Alabama winning or being tied 3 times
* 1931 - 1936 The National title was won by either So Cal or the University of Minnesota
* 1937 - 1942 Parity once again other than a repeat by the University of Minnesota in 40 & 41
* 1943 - 1949 The National Championship was won by either Army or Notre Dame
* 1950 - 1956 Oklahoma winning it in 50, 55, 56
* 1957 - 1967 Has Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan St, and So Cal winning it at least twice or tied for the National Championship
* 1968 - 1974 Saw either Ohio St or So Cal win or tie for the National Championship twice
* 1975 - 1977 No repeat National Champions
* 1978 - 1979 Alabama back to back
* 1980 - 1982 No repeat National Champions
* 1983 - 1991 Saw the University of Miami win it 3 times in 83, 87, 89 and tie in 91
* 1992 - 1993 No repeats
* 1994 - 1997 Nebraska wins it in 94, 95 and ties for the National Championship in 97
* 1998 - 2002 No repeats
* 2003 - 2004 So Cal either wins or ties for the National Championship
* 2005 - 2008 Florida wins it twice in 06 and 08
* 2009 - 2017 Alabama wins in 5 times in 09, 11, 12, 15 and 17
Some other interesting facts:
Since 2006 a SEC team has won the national championship 9 times during the last 12 years
Enough of the hand ringing and lamenting that your team isnt making the playoffs or playing for a National Championship. College football is littered with periods of domination by individual teams or conferences through out its 148 year history. Nothing has changed about the that, the facts more than make that perfectly clear!
Interesting stuff. But forgive me if I don't choose to hold my breath waiting for the Ivy League to win a handful of consecutive national championships.
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16 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:
Interestingly, some folks questioned Lakeland after their title run this year. Although Lakeland did get a number of transfers, only one of them (Lloyd Summerall) was an undisputed FBS talent. Miami Central is another powerhouse that had only one such transfer.
I'd take a team of 'really good high school football players' over a team with one or two "undisputed FBS talents" every day of the week and twice on Friday nights. Now, if you can put an FBS talent on a team with really good players, you've got a chance to have a very special year. In my view, that's what Lakeland did this year. The other thread shows how many players transferred into Lakeland over the last two years. The list included the QB. While he may not be an FBS talent (at least not at the QB position), he was perfect for their system. And without trying to throw punches at a high school kid, and based purely on the eyeball test, the number 2 QB at Lakeland (who may only be a sophomore) would not have been able to do the things that the number 1 kid did or that Lakeland needed to be done in order for them to make their championship run. That said, Lakeland probably could have lined Bowman up in the wildcat all season and still gone undefeated -- at least through the regular season.
My point is this: you don't necessarily need undisputed FBS talent to make a deep playoff run if you have good players and depth across the board. But, certainly, if you can take a team that has good players, including a 4* TE and a potential 5* RB, and add in transfers that are better than what you've got (and/or allow players to play a position that is better suited for them), and throw in another undisputed FBS talent or two, that's when you've got a real shot at holding up the trophy in Orlando.
- FL_HS_football and Hwy17
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Are all of these RB's from the class of 2019?
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Lakeland
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33 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:
Maybe more so than any other position, transfer of one qb can start an entire chain of events in area. I don't know the circumstances of Dean's departure. If he was forced out due to the arrival of the new kid, that's really sad, recognizing he obviously gave a lot to Plant during his time there.
We criticize kids for not being loyal, but where are the coaches in all of this? Kids will learn about free agency soon enough in college. Loyalty/tenure should buy something in high school. If a kid has been starting for me on varsity his soph and junior years and performing reasonably well, he's got the job for his senior year if he wants it, I don't care which 5-star transfer comes knocking. If some coaches don't espouse those values, they are the root of the problem with kids moving around.
I think you may be operating under a false set of assumptions. Dean was the QB at Tampa Catholic two seasons ago (his junior year). He transferred into Plant in the spring of his junior year. Gleason and a couple of others also transferred to Plant, all knowing there was a void at the Plant QB spot. Gleason came from East Lake H.S., where he was mostly playing WR as a sophomore. As an aside, East Lake is in Pinellas County, so his family had to move to Tampa (in Hillsborough County) in order for Gleason to be able to attend Plant (much less play football there). In any event, the East Lake coach apparently hitched his wagon to a different QB, who still had another year remaining, so Gleason likely would not have played QB at East Lake this past year either. Some have suggested politics were involved. I don't know. But I do know that Gleason is a very good high school QB and apparently a number of colleges agree, as he now holds several offers, including UNC, Va Tech, Vanderbilt and more. But I digress.
Dean, Gleason and the others (at one point, I think there were as many as six QB's on the team last spring) battled it out a year ago for the starting job. Ultimately, the then-rising junior (Gleason) beat out the then-rising senior (Dean). Dean already had an offer from UCF and (I'm speculating here) probably felt like that offer might be in danger if he sat the bench or only got mop up duty his senior year. So, after spending all of one semester at Plant (playing 7 on 7 and practicing in pads in the spring), Dean transferred to Hillsborough. Probably a smart decision by Dean. I don't think anyone will argue with the statement that Dean "gave a lot to Plant during his time there." But he was only there one semester, and it wasn't even a fall semester. Speaking of being smart, however, Dean recently announced that he would be attending/playing football at Harvard next year.
In the end, it appears this game of musical chairs worked out well for everyone, including a couple of the others who lost out in the Plant QB battle and ended up doing the same thing that Dean did -- i.e., transferring to another school.
I could type for the next hour on transfers and recruiting and the changes that the Florida legislature made a couple of years ago. But I won't. At least not right now. What I will add, however, is that the QB position is unique. Typically, there's only one starting QB on a team. Some kids who are QB's are athletic enough to play other positions. Some are not. Most believe, however, that their best shot at earning a college scholarship is if they're lining up behind the center at the first snap of each game. And it's hard to argue with this logic. So, while I may lament about kids transferring from one school to another to play for a better team or improve their chances of winning a ring, I'm a little more sympathetic to kids who play QB and who legitimately have a shot at playing that position in college -- especially if their best chance of going to college involves a scholarship.
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"Lennard is moving into 8A District 2 with Palm Coast, Seminole and Deland, all playoff-quality teams. After finishing 2-8 overall and 1-5 in 7A District 9, life will not get any easier, boys."
"As far as overly ambitious scheduling, it can be difficult to judge without all the details. Maybe there are some extenuating circumstances that forced a certain team to schedule tougher teams than they would have liked. It's hard for me to believe that a team like Lennard, who has won 4 games in 3 seasons and knows they are not realistically in the running for a playoff spot, would go out of their way to intentionally set a schedule that is substantially above their performance level."
A couple of things here. As best I can tell from the FHSAA website, Lennard will be in 8A, Region 2, District 8 (along with the two Riverview teams, Haines City, Ridge Community and Newsome). Of the teams in this district, Lennard has the largest student population (3117).
Lennard has struggled the last few years, but in 2015 they were 7-4 and the year before that they were 8-3.
Go to the Your 2018 6A Finalist Transfer List thread and you'll see that in the last two years, three Lennard players have transferred to Armwood - a pair of DB's and a 3* DE, all who played regularly. So, arguably, Lennard has talent walking their hallways until that talent is walking in another school's hallways.
Last, and perhaps most importantly, Hwy17 is correct: Hillsborough County public schools do not get to make their own schedules. Schedules are handled by the County athletic department. Teams have to get permission to play out-of-state and out-of-county pre-season games (which can be accomplished if a school is able to check off all of the required boxes), but for the most part, Hillsborough County public schools are not able to play regular season games against non-county opponents (and have very little control over which non-district county schools they play). This comes back to haunt those schools who make it into the playoffs, but who then have to travel for every game after the first home game, because these schools Power Ranking Average is low because they can't schedule opponents that have good records or participated in the playoffs one of the last two years.
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So, in the English soccer league, how does a team get better? Presumably, by adding better players (although I'm sure some will argue that you make the same players better -- or worse -- by adding a different coach). But, going with the assumption that the easiest way to make a team better is by adding better players, how does this translate to the Florida high school football?
Clearly, just because more students are added to a school's population, that does not necessarily mean that the sports teams at that school will improve. So, how can a high school football team in Florida get better over time?
How are the players for English soccer teams selected? Draft? Free agents? Trades? None of those really apply to high school football . . . well, except maybe the 'free agents.'
Assuming that schools/teams bought into the whole 'prestige' concept, I could see schools crossing the lines in order to maintain a certain level. Arguably, this happens already. Would it happen more? Should open recruiting be permitted under this system? Again, I remain open to consideration of the relegation system, but I'm just wondering if a system designed for professionals will work for amateurs.
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2 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:
I know Americans hate the idea of English Soccer Pyramid, but it honestly makes the most sense when we are talking about teams of different caliber competing against each other. Sure a higher division teams loses against a lower level team occasionally, but for the most part the premiere teams continue to rise. The same is true in football. One of the things I liked about the FHSAA's proposal for other sports was to put teams into classifications based on skilled level. In sports like basketball, soccer, and softball, they could do promote and relegate every year since most games are home and home already. It would take many years for a 2A team to end up in 8A.
Question from a guy who grew up playing the traditional sports, but had to learn a little about soccer when my youngest son got involved with 'European football' at a club level: how consistent are the English soccer teams? Is Manchester United consistently good? Are there other teams that are consistently average? I'm guessing there are no consistently bad teams in the league as those are the ones that get relegated down, right?
I'm intrigued by the relegation idea, but from what I've seen over the last decade, there are very few high school teams that are good year in and year out (although I'm a firm believer that, going forward, the 'rich' are going to have an easier time staying rich, and the 'poor' are going to have a tougher time turning things around under the relatively new transfer rules). I could see a team having a 3-7 season one year, getting relegated down just as their under-achieving underclassmen become seniors. And that group may very well have been an 8-2 playoff team the next year if they stayed at the level they were out, but if they drop down a notch, they would dominate a weaker division. The following year, as most of the now-seniors graduate, that team would move back up to the higher division just in time to get their butts kicked again for a year by the upper-division teams. Is there any way to keep this from happening?
All that said, I'm generally in favor of a historically bad team being able to drop down a classification or two until they get things sorted out or a historically good team moving up a class or two until they hit their performance plateau. But, it occurs to me that the club soccer teams maintain a certain amount of roster consistency over the years that high school teams simply cannot maintain because of the very nature of the school system. But I'm open to learn more.
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He forgot to add "Please respect my decision."
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Just glanced over the list. One thing does confuse me a little. Looking at Class 7A, District 7 is a 6-team district (Lakeland, Kathleen, Strawberry Crest, Bloomingdale, Plant City and Durant), but neighboring District 8 only has 4 teams (Armwood, TBT, Wiregrass Ranch and East Bay). Why wouldn't the FHSAA have made two 5-team districts (by moving over any one of the last four teams listed)?
On the one hand, it probably doesn't matter. But in this new era of racking up points, teams with fewer district games presumably have the ability to 'schedule smarter' than those with more.
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Dang, I hate to come in here and start a fight with my second post, but maybe I just don't understand what's going on in Broward County. I always thought high school all-star games are just for seniors. For the very reason alluded to in the first post, it does not make sense to me to allow a current coach at one high school to be coaching kids from another high school who still have high school eligibility (how else would they end up on the Dillard sideline next year, unless they all plan to become coaches). I'm assuming at least a week of practice leading up to the game itself during which time the head coach (and perhaps members of his staff) would get one-on-one instructional/bonding time with kids from other schools? That's a recipe for disaster if you ask me. Of course kids are going to like the coach who only has to coach them for one week and where discipline likely is not an issue. What am I missing here?
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I'm not 100% sure, but I believe Tampa Plant was 1-9 in 2003. Robert Weiner became the coach in 2004 and the team went 3-7. In 2005, Plant went 9-3. And in 2006, in Coach Weiner's third year as head coach, Plant went 15-0 and won the State Championship.
- 181pl and DisabledAccount
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FHSAA football advisory committee/RPI included
in The Huddle
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Peezy, I'm much more concerned about the RPI issue than the "6 quarter" one. As long as I've been around the Plant program, there has been very little (if any) movement of players between the Varsity and the JV until the JV season is over, at which time a small number of JV kids get 'called up' to the varsity to get a taste of varsity football before they move up for good. Even on the varsity's off week, the varsity coaches won't even let the handful of sophomore varsity players 'play down' for the JV game that week to get game reps.
Now, the RPI issue is one that concerns me, for the same reason that the power ranking averages have concerned me over the last two years. As you (and perhaps others on this Board) know, Plant is in the Hillsborough Public School district. As such, it has little or no control over its regular season schedule. Which, of course, means that it can't play the game that other schools got real good at real fast and racking up power rating points -- even in a losing effort. And while a home playoff game instead of a road playoff game vs. Lakeland this past year probably wouldn't have mattered, I'm a firm believer that Plant would have come out ahead of Bartram Trail a year ago had that game been played at Dad's Stadium instead of in Jacksonville. No disrespect to BT; that's just my view. In the past, a perennial playoff team could at least count on a late playoffs home game every other year; now, you might not ever get one after the first round.