Ray Icaza
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Posts posted by Ray Icaza
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Agree 100% and the same can be said about Eric Pinellas. GO KOWBOYS!!
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13 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:
But it's a chance to rise up.
Personally, I would rather a promote/relegate system, with the top division be the best 32 teams in the state regardless of enrollment or whether they are public or private. This ranking of the top 32 should be based on how they perform over the prior three or four years with a weighted ranking applied to the years, the highest weight to the most current year, etc.
During the regular season, these teams could play a schedule that would include at least five opponents from the top division with the remainder selected at the discretion of the school. All 32 team would make the playoffs. I am agnostic as to whether I would group them into 8 regions or whether to just have them complete their playoff schedules based on ranking at the end of the regular season with 1 playing 32, 2 playing 31, etc., with the same method being applied in each subsequent round.
I agree with the opinions of our AD, HC and others when it comes to ranking based on polls as opposed to actual results on the field. This was their comments when interviewed about the open division for the top 32 teams. Two years ago, we were told that SOS would be rewarded so we scheduled accordingly one of the toughest schedules in the state. Thru that early gauntlet we were 4-3 and when the FHSAA put out the rankings we came in at #33 in 4S. Yes, in 4S!! At seasons end we dominated Mainland 33-6 who would barely lose the 3S championship to Lake Wales (32-30) and we took Lakeland to the wire in both games, the eventual 4S champ. Ask them if they thought we were #33 in 4S. Those advocating for less classifications, bigger districts and separate championships for public and private get my vote with automatic bids for winners and runner up. Will it leave a potential playoff type team out now and then? Yes, but at least you have clearly laid out rules for getting into the playoffs and aren't left to wonder about the "HOCUS POCUS".
- KeemD321, Longtime Observer and Dr. D
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1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:
Below:
https://fhsaa.com/rankings.aspx?path=football
A slight improvement from the last two, but there are still significant disparities in my opinion.
I am pretty certain deserving team will be left out of the playoffs. The corollary is clearly also true.
Yup, they moved Miami Central up to #47 overall and #4 in their classification. Apopka is sitting at #51 overall and #7 in your classification. Another head scratcher is Manatee a spot ahead of Venice despite getting trounced by them 2 weeks earlier. Thank God they moved us up to #266 overall and #44 in our class. I guess that meets your definition of "Slight Improvement"!
- KeemD321 and DarterBlue2
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7 hours ago, KeemD321 said:
TOHO will definitely be a running clock
It is a possibility.
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1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:
Celebration should go independent or play eight-man football
Probably not a bad idea in the down cycle they are currently in. They had been making some headway when Coach Rich Pringle was there before abandoning ship and returning to Lake Gibson. And what does that say about Space Coast HS in Cocoa who got beat by Celebration.
- nolebull813 and Cat_Scratch2
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1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:
I predicted they win all 3 by at least 40. So I’m 2 for 2: I think they beat Toho by 40 as well.
So far, so good. The sad part is against Celebration, Taevion Swint got two touches for the night. On the first play on the first possession, they threw him a swing pass he took to the house for his first TD. On the first play of the second possession, they ran a sweep he took to the house for his second TD. He sat the remainder of the game. Obviously got to rest alot of players so we will be as close to a full deck when we play Mainland on Thursday.
- DarterBlue2 and KeemD321
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1 hour ago, VeniceIndianFan said:
Kissimmee Osceola, when fully healthy, is *much* better than their current mark. They will win this district handily and cannot be counted out of the 4S hunt if they go into the playoffs with Melendez back.
No idea on the status of Elijah Melendez but not depending on his return to finish the season strong. The 2 young sophomores filling in for him have done a great job learning their assignments and making plays week by week. Despite our record, I doubt there are many teams in 4S chomping at the bit to face us come playoff time.
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1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:
A few weeks back I showed my son the standings in the Osceola district. This is what it looked like. He doesn’t follow football much around the state. So he doesn’t know these teams.
Toho 3-1
St Cloud 2-2
Celebration 1-4
Osceola 0-5
I said who do think is gonna win this district just by looking at this. He said Toho. I said what if I told you the 0-5 team is gonna beat the other 3 by at least 40 points? He just laughed. Lol.
To take that a step further, looking at the FHSAA rankings (they haven't been updated yet today) we should have a running clock put on us by Mainland on Thursday night much less have any chance of winning.... #2 vs #302. Let's see what surprises this season has yet to grace us with. By the way, Nolebull813 has been correct in the two previous district games as a running clock was in effect during the first half in each. Will have to wait on the outcome with TOHO till next weekend.
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2 hours ago, Perspective said:
Who is coming up with all these point spreads? Last time I was in Vegas, I don't recall seeing any high school football games I could bet on.
Ouch!!
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7 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:
No. Before the 2019 season, Cake Mary, from 2019 to 2022, a team on the rise; 2023, a likely state champion.
Won't have to wait long to see who is correct as they face their toughest test over the next 3 weeks against APK, Seminole and Mainland. Not a betting man, but if I was my chips would be with the views expressed by Darter.
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2 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:
Ray, I will be honest with you, if he were my son, absent the Offensive Coordination giving me assurances that he would start his senior year, he would have transferred unless he had already decided that he did not want to pursue college football.
The stakes are just too high not to do that.
I completely understand, just warms my soul seeing some ole time values still matter particularly with a youngster. I gave the example of the kid that transferred from Suwannee HS to our school this year with all the hype. In my humble opinion his Dad chose our school as a landing spot not the kid. He was expecting a security blanket just handing the ball off to Taevion and in the early season that didn't pan out. Thus, he was expected to be more productive and he was unable to deliver so ended up getting beat out by an undersized sophomore. Every decision has risks and don't always play out as you had planned. Anyway, extremely happy for the success Caleb Sanchez is enjoying his senior year.
- Dr. D and DarterBlue2
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17 minutes ago, Dan in Daytona said:
Ray, your Kowboys manhandled the Bucs last year. My hope is that's not the case this year. Going back to the days of Willie Green , I've always thought the Kowboys, Mainland, Cocoa, and St Augustine are very similar in player make-up from year to year. All have speedy and aggressive athletic players with many in challenging and difficult living conditions. Though some are a little undersized for the big colleges, they still play with a chip on the shoulder and a heart that never quits.... As too the FHSAA ranking's, they are pretty ridiculous. Computer polls take a few weeks and games played to correct their early results. In this poll's case, it's dead on arrival.
Mainland will rightfully be favored based on record plus home field advantage. It appears they wanted to cancel last year prior to playing the game and this year are itching for revenge. In any event, we won't be easy pickings and if we keep mistakes to a minimum we certainly have a chance to pull the upset. Game has been moved to Thursday of next week and I will certainly be in attendance bar any emergency. Your BUCS have been playing well all year and have a strong argument to make as the leading contender for this year's 3S TITLE!!
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If the score or result wasn't newsworthy enough, read the article I link regarding the backstory of the SJB QB; very heartwarming. However, it does lend some credence to the fact that more times than not it is the parent seeking the kid to transfer for playing time/exposure rather than the other way around.
St. John Bosco QB Caleb Sanchez seeing patience, loyalty pay off (msn.com
- DarterBlue2 and Dr. D
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On 10/7/2023 at 2:31 PM, Dan in Daytona said:
I was thinking the same thing. Just threw another well coached, athletic team out there for discussion who appears to be more "Balanced" than usual.
Well, we got our answer as Deland put up a good fight but came up short losing to Seminole 49-42. The score was relatively close but in my eyes a team giving up 49 points doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. Granted we lost to Sanford Seminole earlier in the year 31-6, but played the entire game with little offensive output with injured RB's, an inexperienced QB and our defense on the field way too long. Looks like some teams are starting to struggle with injuries late in the season, whereas we are finally getting most folks back. I think the Kowboys will give Mainland all it can handle next Thursday despite the record and the hilarious FHSAA rankings. Currently Mainland is #2 among all schools while we are #302. Can't wait to see how this plays out.
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51 minutes ago, FSULOVER said:
Private school records since 2005 showing that some publics have done just fine against the private powers
AHP v Central 0-3
Bolles v BTW 1-4
Bolles v Cocoa 1-3
ST v Lakeland 1-4
CG v Glades Central 0-6
TC v Cocoa 0-2
Anyone can find outliers to prop up an argument. What you can't deny is "PRIVATES" in metro areas winning about 80% of state titles for over a decade and it has only gotten worse. That stat as opposed to yours tells it all. Given publics probably outnumber privates 3 to 1, no they aren't doing fine.
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50 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:
That is true to a degree. For most of the rich depend on transfers to maintain their status. That requires either monetary reward such as a scholarship in the case of the privates, or convincing kids in an area that school X is the place to be. Apopka, Osceola and Mainland all in Central to East Central Florida, have, to a degree, maintained strong programs without overly depending on transfers over the past 20+ years. Cocoa, despite a couple down years, has done pretty much the same. But they have been able to do this, by having great talent based in their schools boundaries, and by convincing the kids that they should stay home.
In the case of Apopka, this is bolstered by the fact that a good amount of our talent comes from Plymouth and Zellwood, which are both in the rural part of Orange County and which would make it very difficult for them to commute to any of the other better area programs unless mommy or daddy had the money to buy them reliable transportation, which they would not as these are poor sections of Apopka.
I tend to agree with you on most points, but doubt that Osceola year in and year out get the number and quality of transfers like Cocoa does. Just look at one position for Cocoa the past few years as a clear example, QB! These kids that just "SHOW UP" were in their school boundaries? Must be MAGIC.
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54 minutes ago, FSULOVER said:
Back then you would have been laughed at suggesting Miami Central and Chaminade would EVER be amongst the best in the nation. They were below average to terrible in the 80's and 90's. Many of the programs above were bad for LONG periods of time.
We talk about haves and have nots, but STA and Lakeland are the ONLY programs over the past 20 years that have consistently had very strong teams year in and out.
Some of these teams may be riding a crest now but could be doormats in 20 years. Nade had a huge dropoff for about 10 years and it could happen again very quickly.
Yes it is VERY different today. But the scene today has not made it any easier for the rich to stay in power. If anything it is easier for a great program to completely collapse. The rich might be rich today but I would bet on ANY of the rich teams today being in that same position 20 years from now except for STA.
You are partially correct that some powers today may not be tomorrow or vice versa but missed my entire point. PRIVATES MY FRIEND!! For 20 years or more the Bolles School, TCA, University School in south FL and today AHP, CMD, Tampa Jesuit, Cardinal Gibbons, especially STA, etc... have cleaned up on state titles. I'm sure I have left some out so forgive me for that.
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11 minutes ago, PinellasFB said:
This is almost 40 years ago. Things were so vastly different back then. The private schools had not yet invested into athletics (for the most part) to enhance their school's profile so most of their players were rich white kids. I remember playing against Bishop Verot and Cardinal Mooney back then and laughing at these kids trying to catch our speedy skill players. The public schools had strict transfer rules so they were at the mercy of whichever group of kids were moving through their system at any given four-year interval. That's why schools would rise and fall a few times per decade. The traditional public powers were a little more resistant to the down periods because they tended to be in a talent rich areas but even they would miss the playoffs some years.
Fast forward to today and the only time you see a public power down is if they had forfeits or suffered from a mass transfer exodus out (see Lakewood this year... live by the sword, die by the sword). The privates never have down years and load up on kids who probably wouldn't be attending their schools without a free ride. Non-powers develop kids only to see them get stolen once they are productive, repeating their cycle of staying down and the powers staying up.
Privates never bitched, just said "Let's Get Even" and started recruiting. This whole narrative is laughable as back in that era those same schools a year or two prior or after could have had completely different (winning) records. The last 20 years have been a complete takeover of the haves and have nots with little to zero variation. Who you fooling??
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39 minutes ago, SportsFan said:
He's talking about DeLand
DeLand may be a contender but they beat Deltona last night, I would expect DeLand to win that one easily
They have won against some solid teams, but the only top ranked team they have played (Mainland) put a L on them. Will be interesting to see how they perform in the upcoming weeks vs Seminole and University. That will tell alot.
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1 hour ago, PinellasFB said:
Yes this is the exact problem I have with this proposed open division. As usual the FSHAA fixes something by proposing an even worse solution. They are avoiding the root cause of all issues and that is recruiting/transfers. It seems simple enough to separate school choice from athletics such that anyone is free to transfer for academics but they must sit out a year of athletics unless they moved to that school zone? This doesn't solve the private school unfairness but just throw them into their own athletic association and be done with it. Screw em.
THANK YOU!! That has been my simple solution since I began participating on this forum. All these other gymnastics being proposed have their own set of unintended consequences. I have no beef against privates, but they operate under a different set of rules, thus should play in their own league.
- Airek, PinellasFB and Hwy17
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15 hours ago, SportsFan said:
People are quick to blame the current kids for the transfer portal
How do these kids transfer without the parents signing off for it? When I was in school you usually have to get parents to agree to sign out of school until your 18 so how do you switch schools without a parent signing off on it?
Parents are leading the travel sports movement of switching teams each year when they don't get to coach or when their kid doesn't start
It's not the current generation, it's the previous one who are parents of these kids now who create the problem then try to pin it on the kids because they LACK ACCOUNTABILITY
Couldn't agree more that "PARENTS" tend to be more of the driver than the kids when it comes to transferring for reasons you stated. We lost two key sophomore starters from last year's varsity basketball team (one was our leading scorer) due to the parent wanting the JV coaching job and more sway over the program. He was Dad to one and Uncle to the other, forced the move against their wishes to a rival school in the county. The leading scorer who is an unbelievably explosive athlete was also an excellent football player and currently leads that school in receiving with double the yardage of his closest teammate plus 7 receiving TD's with no other player with more than 1!! He was a starter here as a WR and could have had the same impact for our football team entering his junior year but was pulled out right before school started for pure vindictiveness against the varsity basketball program as he would have been our top player again this year in that sport. I have intentionally not named the players or the school as neither has responsibility for what happened. Ask any coach about these "KNOW-IT-ALL" parents, they can be poison to your program.
- DarterBlue2, SportsFan and KeemD321
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3 hours ago, VeniceIndianFan said:
I wasn't talking about Maxpreps. Though I don't necessarily like them, they have the rankings mostly correct in my eyes so I can't complain about them. On the other hand...
The FHSAA's take is more than laughable. Take a look at the Power Rankings on the FHSAA site. It is pure garbage from start to finish. No Miami Central in the top 5? Cocoa behind STA? St. Augustine a top 5 team in Florida? Norland at number 9 behind Edgewater and St. Augustine? Lakeland, the 52nd best team in the state? Venice, the 76th best team in Florida? Bradford ahead of Sanford Seminole? HAHA, NO! Plenty of people on this board have pointed to the flaws with Maxpreps, but I do usually like and agree with their rankings, for better or worse.
Thanks for the clarification as your previous comment was "These POLLS (plural) are ridiculous". I was clear in having zero agreement with the FHSAA rankings to date but I think the MaxPrep poll is much closer to correct.
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1 hour ago, VeniceIndianFan said:
These polls are ridiculous.
Chaminade, Miami Central, Norland, Cocoa, and AHP are the top 5 teams in Florida with little argument based on what has happened on the field.
FHSAA list is not a poll but the official ranking system whether you agree or not, which I don't. MaxPrep "IS a POLL" and they pretty much reflect your list "EXACTLY" with the small difference with STA squeezing in over Cocoa due to officiating. So how can that "POLL" be ridiculous while yours isn't??
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3 hours ago, nolebull813 said:
I’m not saying Miramar can’t beat Western. I’m saying Western just has a better resume at this stage and should be rewarded as such
Not taking sides in this disagreement and not a big fan of the FHSAA poll which just came out, but this is their take.
#98 overall is Western ranked #12 in class with a 5.80 strength of schedule
#164 overall is Dillard ranked #20 in class with a 5.68 strength of schedule
#246 overall is Miramar ranked #35 in class with a 3.64strength of schedule
So according to them, Western shouldn't be ranked ahead of only Miramar (by a mile), but also ahead of even Dillard. In addition, MaxPrep has them also ranked higher in their classification of 4M as #5, whereas Dillard in 3M is #17 with Miramar again lagging farther behind. Yup, again it is only someone else's poll (opinion) which surely will not sit well with one of you.
Mainland coach has words for Osceola-Bucs 22-0
in The Huddle
Posted
Congrats to Mainland, their defense was better than I expected and the difference offensively was QB play. The scoring for Mainland all on 3 big plays directly due to the great QB play, passing, running and as a decoy. Our young QB was unable to add any offense and created more problems for us than any positives. Depending on where you sit, opinions regarding the refs go both ways. When our QB fumbled, Mainland recovered and advanced the ball. When your punt returner fumbled on our side of the field, there was a wild scramble for the ball as different players tried to gain control and Jalen Bell scooped it up on the dead run and returned it for the TD. However, the refs ruled that it was Osceola ball at the spot he scooped it up and denied the TD. Neither team was able to mount SUSTAINED drives due to the opposing defense and their own miscues all game long. Good luck to Mainland the remainder of the year and we need to figure out what we can do to create offense vs top teams or we won't go far.