Miami-Dade Has the Edge over Jacksonville Teams

[OldSchoolLion]

Can Mandarin become the first public, NE FL school to beat a Miami team in a state final in the larger classes?  Miami schools have had the edge over time.

2015 Washington over Raines

2014 Washington over Bolles

2013 Washington over Bolles

2012 Washington over Bolles

2011 Bolles over Washington

2008 Bolles over Gulliver Prep

2007 Washington over Nease

2003 Monsignor Pace over Bolles

1997 Carol City over Columbia

1995 Northwestern over Sandalwood

1968 Coral Gables over Wolfson

1967 Coral Gables over Wolfson

1964 Coral Gables over Lee

[DarterBlue2]

Mandarin has a shot. But I am concerned over the number of points given up to Riverview. If they give up over 30 to Columbus, they are in trouble. 

[OldSchoolLion]

47 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Mandarin has a shot. But I am concerned over the number of points given up to Riverview. If they give up over 30 to Columbus, they are in trouble. 

I agree. I am not aware of any state champion in Florida's largest class that gave up 31 points in a state semifinal.  In fact, I only know of a few teams that have ever done it in any of the larger classes, and those teams had good defenses that happened to be playing against offensive juggernauts (Armwood 2004, Armwood 2011, Miami Central 2012).

Mandarin has given up 30+ points in 5 games this year.  Columbus, despite a brutal schedule, has only given up 30 once, to Carol City.  Mandarin benefited from some turnovers by Riverview.  They may not be able to count on those from Columbus.  If Riverview ran on them, Columbus will likely be able to as well.  And if Columbus can run, watch out for the big pass play to open up with Kalani Norris.  

Beck and his wr corps is awesome, but I don't think Columbus will be shellshocked.  The Explorers' secondary has seen some incredibly athletic wr's this year, ie Frank Ladson/South Dade and done reasonably well.

 

[Stangs1]

Mandarin was up big and pulled out the middle linebackers and pulled the bandits back and gave up the middle of the field because they new riverview couldn't stop them on offense.  Last 4 games of the year, middle line backer was hurt so we were struggling the middle.  Came back during the playoffs and u see how and we outscored first two teams like 75-8. Im seeing a bunch of screens and backwards passes from Columbus.   Mandarin d is way to fast for that.  That works against those teams that run a 3-4 and back there safeties 20 yards off.  Not so much when you play two bandits up close.  Now u have to throw down field more and thats where all of Mandarin picks come from. I know they have seen some wr talent this year but i guarantee they have not seen a team with 4 speedsters like this.  Riverview game was over at halftime and they pulled back.  I assure you. Didn't Columbus give up 28 to South Dade?

[shredstar]

The majority of the points were given up after the outcome was long since decided. Mandarin just let them grind out long drives, trading that for time off the clock. They also called off the dogs toward the end of the third quarter. If needed, they could have easily dropped 60 or even 70 points on Riverview. I guess they showed a little compassion.

[Stangs1]

4 hours ago, shredstar said:

The majority of the points were given up after the outcome was long since decided. Mandarin just let them grind out long drives, trading that for time off the clock. They also called off the dogs toward the end of the third quarter. If needed, they could have easily dropped 60 or even 70 points on Riverview. I guess they showed a little compassion.

Exactly.   

[OldSchoolLion]

14 hours ago, Stangs1 said:

Mandarin was up big and pulled out the middle linebackers and pulled the bandits back and gave up the middle of the field because they new riverview couldn't stop them on offense.  Last 4 games of the year, middle line backer was hurt so we were struggling the middle.  Came back during the playoffs and u see how and we outscored first two teams like 75-8. Im seeing a bunch of screens and backwards passes from Columbus.   Mandarin d is way to fast for that.  That works against those teams that run a 3-4 and back there safeties 20 yards off.  Not so much when you play two bandits up close.  Now u have to throw down field more and thats where all of Mandarin picks come from. I know they have seen some wr talent this year but i guarantee they have not seen a team with 4 speedsters like this.  Riverview game was over at halftime and they pulled back.  I assure you. Didn't Columbus give up 28 to South Dade?

As I am sure you are aware, Chris Merritt is one of the most tenured and respected coaches in the state.  He has lots of options on offense with the tools he has, and the knowledge to use them. so I would take what you have seen with a grain of salt.  I think he has more flexibility this year than in years past.

With nothing but the utmost respect for Mandarin, I find it hard to believe their defense and wide receiver corps is any more fast than some of those Columbus has faced this year, ie Deerfield Beach, Northwestern, Chaminade-Madonna, Carol City, Northwestern, Booker T Washington, South Dade and Palmetto.  Unless you know the Dade teams intimately, I would be careful making a claim like that above.  If Mandarin's team speed is greater than teams like Northwestern and Carol City, it seems like they should have blasted everyone on their schedule.

As an example, Deerfield Beach has 5 wr's with multiple Power 5 offers, and all are fast.  

https://247sports.com/Player/Deajaun-McDougle-45572389/

https://247sports.com/Player/Donte-Banton-46038909/

https://247sports.com/Player/Bryce-Gowdy-46050312/

No desire to debate it, so take what I say for what it's worth.  I hope Mandarin's receiving corps performs as well as possible against Columbus so we can see their stuff and a great game.      

[shredstar]

10 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

As I am sure you are aware, Chris Merritt is one of the most tenured and respected coaches in the state.  He has lots of options on offense with the tools he has, and the knowledge to use them. so I would take what you have seen with a grain of salt.  I think he has more flexibility this year than in years past.

With nothing but the utmost respect for Mandarin, I find it hard to believe their defense and wide receiver corps is any more fast than some of those Columbus has faced this year, ie Deerfield Beach, Northwestern, Chaminade-Madonna, Carol City, Northwestern, Booker T Washington, South Dade and Palmetto.  Unless you know the Dade teams intimately, I would be careful making a claim like that above.  If Mandarin's team speed is greater than teams like Northwestern and Carol City, it seems like they should have blasted everyone on their schedule.

As an example, Deerfield Beach has 5 wr's with multiple Power 5 offers, and all are fast.  

https://247sports.com/Player/Deajaun-McDougle-45572389/

https://247sports.com/Player/Donte-Banton-46038909/

https://247sports.com/Player/Bryce-Gowdy-46050312/

No desire to debate it, so take what I say for what it's worth.  I hope Mandarin's receiving corps performs as well as possible against Columbus so we can see their stuff and a great game.      

Really, there is no debate.  Mandarin's receivers aren't any more talented than any others, and I have watched this particular group for the last two years.  They are good and have developed nicely, but their success can be 100 percent credited to having a physically gifted QB who has all the tools for the next level and his ability to get them the ball anywhere on the field.....accurately (key word). It is a luxury few teams have at this level.  Mandarin's offense is really quite simple and fun to watch. They utilize motion and the defense's reaction to said motion to create, identify and exploit mismatches, while employing the run game enough with a quality back to keep the defense honest.  It seems to have a lot of tendencies, to a much lesser degree of course, to the late 90's/early 00's St. Louis Rams offense. It is a new system that was implemented this year and it has taken almost the entire season for it to evolve into what it is now.   Their QB returns next year, so they should be able to expand it to an entire new level.  Mandarin's defense is good enough.  They are very good at getting penetration at the point of attack and creating negative plays. They do give up a lot of yards in the middle of the field and can get away with giving up some points too, given the offense that they have.  They have given up very few big plays though and usually make offenses grind out long, time consuming drives in an effort to score.  But, in the end, when they really have to stop someone, they usually do and have shown they can win a defensive game as well when they beat Wekiva.

 

In Deerfield's case, they absolutely do have talented receivers who were limited by an average at best QB, who, like most at this level, can throw the hell out of a flanker screen and short slant.  But, in most cases, he is wildly inaccurate with everything else unless the receiver is so wide open we could get them the ball.  If they had a QB who could deliver the ball downfield accurately and utilize their full skill set they would probably be playing in this upcoming game.  Columbus seemed to pay very little attention to their receivers because they didn't have to, other than defending the edges.   No knock on their QB, but it is what it is and the reason why 95 percent of high school teams' offenses revolve around running the ball and throwing flanker screens ad nauseam.

 

As for this upcoming game, Mandarin has a significant advantage solely because of their QB.  It is an advantage they have had with every playoff opponent up to this point.  They can do things offensively that others just can't do and, in most cases, haven't had to defend all year.  But, like anything else, teams just have to go with what they've got, maximize the talent they have and put them into positions to be successful.  Both teams are solid.  I have watched enough of Columbus to see that they are good defensively and look pretty closely aligned to the defenses Mandarin has faced during this playoff stretch.  The only exception to that would be Wekiva's defense.  They are significantly better and noticeably more talented than any of the other four.  Offensively, they have a good back and run the ball quite a bit.  They also have a quality receiver which allows them to mix in some bubbles and flanker stuff.  They do put the QB under center some, which is something the Mandarin defense really hasn't seen all year.  The records of the two teams are of no significance and really only tell you that Columbus has had more "lay ups" than Mandarin. Twelve of Mandarin's 14 opponents this season won seven or more games, which is likely more than anyone else has faced in the entire state this year.   In fact, the only true "lay up" Mandarin has had was the first week of the season in August.  It should be a fun game to watch matching two teams with completely contrasting styles.

[OldSchoolLion]

11 minutes ago, shredstar said:

Really, there is no debate.  Mandarin's receivers aren't any more talented than any others, and I have watched this particular group for the last two years.  They are good and have developed nicely, but their success can be 100 percent credited to having a physically gifted QB who has all the tools for the next level and his ability to get them the ball anywhere on the field.....accurately (key word). It is a luxury few teams have at this level.  Mandarin's offense is really quite simple and fun to watch. They utilize motion and the defense's reaction to said motion to create, identify and exploit mismatches, while employing the run game enough with a quality back to keep the defense honest.  It seems to have a lot of tendencies, to a much lesser degree of course, to the late 90's/early 00's St. Louis Rams offense. It is a new system that was implemented this year and it has taken almost the entire season for it to evolve into what it is now.   Their QB returns next year, so they should be able to expand it to an entire new level.  Mandarin's defense is good enough.  They are very good at getting penetration at the point of attack and creating negative plays. They do give up a lot of yards in the middle of the field and can get away with giving up some points too, given the offense that they have.  They have given up very few big plays though and usually make offenses grind out long, time consuming drives in an effort to score.  But, in the end, when they really have to stop someone, they usually do and have shown they can win a defensive game as well when they beat Wekiva.

 

In Deerfield's case, they absolutely do have talented receivers who were limited by an average at best QB, who, like most at this level, can throw the hell out of a flanker screen and short slant.  But, in most cases, he is wildly inaccurate with everything else unless the receiver is so wide open we could get them the ball.  If they had a QB who could deliver the ball downfield accurately and utilize their full skill set they would probably be playing in this upcoming game.  Columbus seemed to pay very little attention to their receivers because they didn't have to, other than defending the edges.   No knock on their QB, but it is what it is and the reason why 95 percent of high school teams' offenses revolve around running the ball and throwing flanker screens ad nauseam.

 

As for this upcoming game, Mandarin has a significant advantage solely because of their QB.  It is an advantage they have had with every playoff opponent up to this point.  They can do things offensively that others just can't do and, in most cases, haven't had to defend all year.  But, like anything else, teams just have to go with what they've got, maximize the talent they have and put them into positions to be successful.  Both teams are solid.  I have watched enough of Columbus to see that they are good defensively and look pretty closely aligned to the defenses Mandarin has faced during this playoff stretch.  The only exception to that would be Wekiva's defense.  They are significantly better and noticeably more talented than any of the other four.  Offensively, they have a good back and run the ball quite a bit.  They also have a quality receiver which allows them to mix in some bubbles and flanker stuff.  They do put the QB under center some, which is something the Mandarin defense really hasn't seen all year.  The records of the two teams are of no significance and really only tell you that Columbus has had more "lay ups" than Mandarin. Twelve of Mandarin's 14 opponents this season won seven or more games, which is likely more than anyone else has faced in the entire state this year.   In fact, the only true "lay up" Mandarin has had was the first week of the season in August.  It should be a fun game to watch matching two teams with completely contrasting styles.

great post, sir.  Absolutely agree with your thoughts about Deerfield.  If you have read some of my other posts, you know qb play in FL is a sore spot with me...namely because the talent is here but some of the kids don't seem to get adequate position coaching from the time they are young.  Not that a kid needs to be a Trevor Lawrence in high school. 

And agree with your comments about Mandarin's qb adding an element to a team that has the tools for him to use.  Fortunately he has those at his disposal.    

  

[Stangs1]

Nice post.

[shredstar]

5 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

great post, sir.  Absolutely agree with your thoughts about Deerfield.  If you have read some of my other posts, you know qb play in FL is a sore spot with me...namely because the talent is here but some of the kids don't seem to get adequate position coaching from the time they are young.  Not that a kid needs to be a Trevor Lawrence in high school. 

And agree with your comments about Mandarin's qb adding an element to a team that has the tools for him to use.  Fortunately he has those at his disposal.    

  

I have read them and you are spot on.  I don't know why we can't produce better QB's.  We have an abundance of everything else.  Haha, I am pretty old.  Have been following HS ball up here since my days in the early 80's at Orange Park, where we had a guy named Ray Criswell, who was a pretty good QB in his own right, but one hell of a punter, which is what he did at UF.  Best HS punter I have ever seen in my almost 40 years of paying attention.   Have seen a lot of QB's come an go, with many college flame outs, but really nothing of significance in these parts until Tebow Time at Nease.  He was a different cat though.  More of a bulldozer with lots of intangibles.  But even with all that, he still couldn't hit the side of a barn with a pass.  

 

This kid at Mandarin is a pure passer, with the snap release and all.  This is his first full year of starting.  He did some mop up time last year at Providence.  He showed up at Mandarin over the summer.  It was like Christmas in July.  I think Mr. Saban may have had a little to do with him going there.  Mandarin's coach and he have a little history together...i.e. Derrick Henry.

[OldSchoolLion]

1 minute ago, shredstar said:

I have read them and you are spot on.  I don't know why we can't produce better QB's.  We have an abundance of everything else.  Haha, I am pretty old.  Have been following HS ball up here since my days in the early 80's at Orange Park, where we had a guy named Ray Criswell, who was a pretty good QB in his own right, but one hell of a punter, which is what he did at UF.  Best HS punter I have ever seen in my almost 40 years of paying attention.   Have seen a lot of QB's come an go, with many college flame outs, but really nothing of significance in these parts until Tebow Time at Nease.  He was a different cat though.  More of a bulldozer with lots of intangibles.  But even with all that, he still couldn't hit the side of a barn with a pass.  

 

This kid at Mandarin is a pure passer, with the snap release and all.  This is his first full year of starting.  He did some mop up time last year at Providence.  He showed up at Mandarin over the summer.  It was like Christmas in July.  I think Mr. Saban may have had a little to do with him going there.  Mandarin's coach and he have a little history together...i.e. Derrick Henry.

Maybe they can open an IMG North for kids like him up there.

[shredstar]

Haha, I know right.  We need our own academy of football right here in Jax.

[shredstar]

We have had some decent niche QB's up here over the years.  Riley Skinner from Bolles and John Wolford from BK come to mind.  Both ended up at Wake Forest.  But really, the last blue chip type up here was a kid at Middleburg in the late 80's/early 90's who ended up at Miami, where he kind of got lost in the shuffle down there.  Name slips my mind at the moment.  I am getting old.

[DisabledAccount]

17 minutes ago, shredstar said:

Haha, I know right.  We need our own academy of football right here in Jax.

What wrong with Trinity Christian? 

 

They are Trinity Christian Academy ain't they?

[shredstar]

9 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

What wrong with Trinity Christian? 

 

They are Trinity Christian Academy ain't they?

Yep.  Trinity Christian Academy of Football.

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, shredstar said:

Yep.  Trinity Christian Academy of Football.

They good at baseball and softball as well