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Hwy17

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  3. Bolles vs Columbia

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    53 minutes ago, Perspective said:

    Hwy17, are we talking about how it is or how it should be? 

    Under existing FHSAA rules, public and private schools play by the same rules.  At least they're supposed to.   And that means that neither public nor private schools are allowed to recruit athletes.  If a private school specifically targets a particular 8th grade athlete in an effort to convince that 8th grader to attend their school, that's recruiting and it's illegal. 

    Should it be?   That's open for debate. 

    Private schools by design have to have a way of attracting students or close up shop. Getting them to come there while still in middle school or just finishing 8th grade is just part of how a private school has to function.  Big difference than going after an athlete already attending another high school.

  4. Bolles vs Columbia

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    11 hours ago, Perspective said:

    In other words, the private schools have figured out how to game the system.  B)

    Specifically targeting a particular student-athlete (or group of student-athletes) to attend your school as a 9th grader is absolutely "recruiting" as the FHSAA currently defines it.   But because the kids at that age don't really have a "football reputation" (other than on the area youth football fields), it goes largely unnoticed.  Contrast that to the rising high school junior or senior who already has a couple of stars next to their name and impressive highlight film.   Then, everybody notices when that kid transfers (except, apparently, the media in Jacksonville).  

    How so? I got no problem with the private school saying come here to an 8th grader who hasn't played a down of varsity before. Most likely that kid is going to play JV as a freshman anyway. 

  5. Re-Classification

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    1 hour ago, gatorman-uf said:

    You have. I proposed since back in my FlaVarsity Days, ran the spread sheets, showed what classes would like. I get it. Population size is easier and in theory fairest, but the problem is we know that it doesn't produce a great system. It produces lopsided results that nobody (winner or loser) is interested. 
     

    For programs like football, I am generally in favor of the promotion/relegation power points being over a rolling 4-5 year period rather than one year (the original article makes it sound like 1 year, which would do exactly what you say). Other sports, I could make the argument that roster/coach turnover is much greater and thus teams improve much quicker than in football. 

    But if the Unicorns, go 5-5, 5-5, 8-4 (2nd round), (14-1) they might move up, but if they went from 8-4, 8-4, 12-2, and 14-1. They might be more likely to move up and that is ok. I am positive that team would still be competitive in the higher class, would they be dominating, maybe not and again that is ok. 

    My idea of a promotion/relegation system is only a handful of teams would change in a given year (10% up, 10% down in each classification so about 8-9 schools in each direction.) It would take a long time for a 3A school to get to 8A, and even if the Unicorns move up the next, there will still be bad schools in their new classification as there will be schools who were bad, just not bad enough to move down. 
     

    Here's what I see:  Bartow a couple of years ago was 0-10. The years just before were not much better. Then they hire a competent head coach. Overnight he turns the program around and now they are winning. Bartow is 7a. They didn't have to go to 6A to start winning. Some schools choose to go independent, Bartow did not.  It's examples like this that has me convinced that most schools need a leadership change to be successful. Not some gimmick.

  6. Re-Classification

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Perspective said:

    I continue to be intrigued by the relegation/promotion system, but I can't help but think there is a serious difference between professional soccer teams and high school football teams.  Soccer clubs are more likely to maintain a consistent roster over time.  Sure, they'll lose a player here and gain a player there, but it's pretty much the same club from one year to the next (until the owner decides to take the plunge and go sign Messi).   My biggest concern with the system being applied to high school football is similar to the discussion we've had regarding ranking -- more often than not, teams are ranked based on what they did last year, not what they're projected to do this year.  

    So, as I understand the relegation/promotion process, here's how it would play out.  Mythical High School would be in a particular class.  Then, over a period of a year or two, the right kids would all come together for a magical senior year, where the MHS Unicorns make a run at the state title.  Whether they win it or not, their record for that year is the best in school history.  Let's say the Unicorns finish 14-2, losing a close game in the state finals.   Anybody who knows anything about high school football knows that all of MHS' star players will graduate and the team will regress back to mediocrity the following year -- if they stay in the same class.  But, because they won so many games, they get moved up a class, where they promptly get smacked down and are lucky to win two games.  As a result, the handful of rising stars from the JV team decide they don't want to be part of a losing team, so they jump ship and transfer, making it hard for MHS to even stay mediocre the next few seasons. 

    In short, with rare exceptions where a "program" exists that continues to attract talent year in and year out, success in high school football is cyclical and my concern is that the relegation/promotion system would always be a year or two behind a team's actual talent and could very well cause a team to lose what little talent they have waiting in the wings. 

    Help me understand how the system accounts for determining where a team should be this year as opposed to where they should have been last year. 

    Give it up. I've been telling @gatorman-uf this for years now. He's convinced and no changing his mind.

  7. Bolles vs Columbia

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    On 9/5/2021 at 3:49 PM, Perspective said:

    Not arguing with you, but two things worth mentioning. 

    First, the private schools (like Bolles, STA, Jesuit and Berkeley in Tampa, etc.) figured out several years ago that they have to do their "recruiting" early on and get the kids as they're coming out of 8th grade and before they start high school.  When a kid starts out at such a school, no one really says anything. 

    Second, high school is unique.  The "majority of the team" can be homegrown, but it only takes a minority (say, 5-10 kids) who make the move to a new school who can then make the difference in a team being a district champ who bows out early in the playoffs versus a team playing for - if not winning - a state championship.

    Note:  I'm not knocking Bolles or throwing any stones.   But when the efforts of a school finally pay off, you've got to look at the whole picture.  

    Just my two cents. 

    When I private school gets a kid as an incoming freshman or before, I don't view it as recruiting players. Especially if that kid plays a year on the JV team.

  8. Re-Classification

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Perspective said:

    Ray, I'm not disagreeing with you at all (at least not yet  :P), but I do have a couple of questions that seemed to pop up "back in the day" when it was the way it was.   

    1.  Regarding the requirement that a family move into a specific geographical area for a particular school, how do you deal with non-traditional families?  What if a kid has one parent in one school district and another parent in a different school district and the two parents share custody?  Presumably, the kid could pick?   What if the kid has no parents at all?  Or what if the kid doesn't have a father and his mother is in jail? 

    On the other end of the spectrum, what about a situation where the family has the financial ability to rent an apartment "in the district," but no one really lives there (or maybe the kid sleeps there a few times a week)?  Is that good enough?  (That was the issue that got Armwood in a little trouble a few years back).   What about the classic "Blind Side" scenario, where a family of means is willing to "take in" a kid who doesn't have a pot to pee in, conveniently providing the kid with the means to attend the high school in their district that their kids also attend? 

    2.  Who is in charge of monitoring or investigating or "clearing" where a kid lives?  I can tell you from experience that when you put school personnel in charge, it's a lot like asking the fox to guard the hen-house.   Some won't do a thing, some will do a drive-by and if they see a car in the driveway, that's good enough, while others will show up at 5:30 in the morning to see who's actually living in the house or apartment.  In other words, those who do the best job of making sure the kids really live in the district get penalized the most when it comes time for deciding who is eligible and who is not.  But, by the same token, they typically don't run the risk of seeing a successful playoff run thwarted by forfeits. 

    I know I'm throwing a lot out there, but I just recall these being some of the issues that schools faced a decade ago when where you lived determined where you had to go.  Any thoughts?

    Not to mention the fact that Florida has a right to privacy law as well as an anti-stalking law.  FHSAA is lucky they haven't been sued the way they handled some of those past investigations.  Think twice before you go snooping around someone's home or interrogate a minor without their legal guardian present.

  9. Re-Classification

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    On 9/6/2021 at 12:15 PM, gatorman-uf said:

    We have to acknowledge certain things, our state legislature wants transfers. They want choice, whether it is for public schools, private schools, or charter schools. They have unequivocally stated they believe in parental/student choice even if that means transferring for athletic reasons. They will pull out the tired trope of not stopping the violinist or chorus member or auto mechanic student being able to choose so why stop the football or baseball player.

    Once, we acknowledge that, we have to move on from transfers to recruiting, which is technically different. The FHSAA should be able to work with the Department of Education to suspend people for a specific period of time for recruiting. 

    Now, we have acknowledged transfers, we punish the coaches who recruit. We go with option 3. 
    Option 3 says if transfers happen, so be it. Put those schools together into one classification and let them compete.
    Using the LAZINDEX, these are the top 48 teams over the past 20 years. If we did this for all classifications, now all of a sudden, population size doesn't matter, geography doesn't matter, but the ability to put a winning team on the field matters. Is 20 years a little too long, probably, but better than a one year snap shot. Imagine a classification of 8 districts/6 teams per district (only 9 game schedule with 10th game being play-in). All 48 make the playoffs, with district champion and runner-ups getting automatic byes. While we might quibble about certain teams being included and not being included, I think most of the teams that we consider to be state contenders year in and year out are on the list. 

    1    St. Thomas Aquinas (Fort Lauderdale)
    2    Miami Central
    3    Armwood (Seffner)
    4    Miami Northwestern
    5    Lakeland
    6    Washington (Miami)
    7    Bolles (Jacksonville)
    8    Madison County (Madison)
    9    Mainland (Daytona Beach)
    10    Apopka
    11    Lincoln (Tallahassee)
    12    Manatee (Bradenton)
    13    Naples
    14    Christopher Columbus (Miami)
    15    Venice
    16    Columbia (Lake City)
    17    Cocoa
    18    Trinity Christian (Jacksonville)
    19    Niceville
    20    American Heritage (Plantation)
    21    Miami Carol City
    22    Glades Central (Belle Glade)
    23    St. Augustine
    24    Dwyer (Palm Beach Gardens)
    25    Godby (Tallahassee)
    26    Hillsborough (Tampa)
    27    Plant (Tampa)
    28    Deerfield Beach
    29    Palm Bay (Melbourne)
    30    Pine Forest (Pensacola)
    31    Jefferson (Tampa)
    32    Osceola (Kissimmee)
    33    Lake Gibson (Lakeland)
    34    Vero Beach
    35    Dr. Phillips (Orlando)
    36    Raines (Jacksonville)
    37    Miramar
    38    Plantation
    39    Edgewater (Orlando)
    40    Cardinal Gibbons (Fort Lauderdale)
    41    Jesuit (Tampa)
    42    Chaminade (Hollywood)
    43    Miami Southridge
    44    Fletcher (Neptune Beach)
    45    Bartram Trail (St. Johns)
    46    Pace
    47    Dillard (Fort Lauderdale)
    48    Atlantic (Delray Beach)
     

    Madison competing in the same class as STA? Get real!  That's like saying Mount Union College should be in the SEC.

  12. Re-Classification

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    1 hour ago, PinellasFB said:

    I'm trying to understand option 2.  People are so focused upon the handful of schools that get all the transfers they have lost sight of the entire rest of the city schools that dont receive any transfers.  These schools that lose transfers greatly outnumber the few schools that concentrate all of the talent.  If they get lumped into the metro divisions, which I assume are going to contain all of the powerful teams that receive the transfers, it wont be fair either.  The current system is not perfect but its better than this proposal.

    Agree. All 3 options suck because none address the real issue, transfers.

  21. Surprises week 1

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    45 minutes ago, Jullian said:

    Hillsborough 53 Steinbrenner 17(score)

    Buchholtz 35 Dunnelon 0(score)

    Edgewater 49 BM 6 (score)

    Lake Mary 15 LG 14. (Upset)

    PBG 20 Atlantic 17 (upset)

    Sarasota 19 B Collier 16 (Sailors lol)

    Clay 21 Fleming Island 14 (upset???)

    what’s your surprises?

    I've heard Sarasota is good this year. 

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