OldSchoolLion

Chaminade is an anomaly in the system.  Without a long-term plan to build depth from within and coaching continuity, I think they will struggle sustaining.  With the exception of St Thomas Aquinas, I believe all of the south Florida private schools are, to some extent, potentially teetering on the edge of a backslide.  Gibbons and University appear to be on the right path and have a substantial amount of home-grown talent.  But as I pointed out in the post below, Chaminade will be in trouble unless they are willing to take a hit in the short-term performance to build for the long-term.  If not, they will force themselves into a cycle of reliance upon transfers.  And as whimsical as kids are today, I just cannot see a program relying upon transfers every year to sustain itself. 
While they are flourishing, these smaller private schools are like men playing amongst boys in their respective classes and nobody wants them around.  The problem is when these small, private schools move up in class and then the program crashes..as it has done in the past 10 years at Chaminade, Oxbridge and University.   Chaminade went from being a 2A powerhouse under Coach Guandolo in the early 2000's to a team getting demolished in the late 2000's, losing to teams like Parkway Academy 40-7.  University School went from being a nationally ranked state champion in 2012 to a team getting beaten by 20 or more points in 7 of their games in 2014, even losing 20-7 to Village Academy.  Let's not forget that Cardinal Gibbons and American Heritage came from relative obscurity to national rankings in very short order in recent years. 
That said, if Chaminade moves up to 5A and the crash occurs, it will not be pretty, because they will become just like every other 3A school then, maybe even in the bottom half of 3A.  It could happen to American Heritage and Cardinal Gibbons in the future if the winds change direction.  It's not all private schools.  The issue seems to be concentrated in south Florida.  Admittedly, I don't know an easy solution.  
 

I was at this game... i was just a little 4 year old jitterbug sitting on my dads shoulders but I was there.  Dunedin is me and my whole families alma mater and I had several family members on this team.  Terrance (Turk) Shaw is my cousin as is Karl McGill.  Terrance's brother Anthony was on the team but a Freshman and did not play much that year.  My brother just missed out on these years as he started in 88.  Todd Donahoe is a LB on this team and was 1 of my high school head coaches while at Dun Dun.  
So anyone want to talk about the QB situation at Lakeland that year?  It could be a big fish tall tale but there was always the rumor he should not have been playing in that game due to um..... some criminalistic issues LMAO.  I was too young to know just heard the barbershop  tales growing up.  Also heard lots about the officiating.

I went to that Championship game as well, as a side note the 1st round win over Manatee was a huge upset. Manatee was forced to move a WR to QB but probably still should have won the game. As I recall Dunedin recovered a Manatee fumble deep in Dunedin territory, with about 4 minutes left in the game. Manatee looked to get the ball back and score to win, but Dunedin was able reel off 2-3 1st downs by running the ball right into the heart of the Manatee Defense to close out the win. In the Championship game against Lakeland the undersized Dunedin defense was able to keep the score close, unfortunately the Dunedin offense wasn't really able to establish much in the way of a consistent offense against the Lakeland defense. Lakeland had a big FB.....I want to say his name was Motherstill, I always thought that was the perfect fullback name!
The following year when Dunedin played Pine Forest for the state title, Pine Forest was just an absolute beast of a team and Dunedin never really had a chance in the game, I'll never forget the head coach "Madison" for Pine Forest called a TO near the end of the game, with Pine Forest deep in Dunedin territory.  He comes out onto the field and into the Pine Forest offensive huddle and asked loud enough for me to hear where I was standing......"Okay, who hasn't scored yet?" and subsequently calls a play for that player to score. I just thought it doesn't get any more in your face than that......if I could hear Madison talking to his Pine Forest Offensive players, then surely the Dunedin defensive players did too.

Conservatives and leftists agree. Max Preps is crap! Maybe this would solve our current political division. Unite against Max Preps!?

This was the Class 5A state title game, held in Dunedin.  Lakeland and Dunedin both had great defenses and each held their 4 playoff opponents that year to only 37 points.  It was a rare showing by a Pinellas County team in a state final.  Dunedin held the Naughts scoreless in the second half and a goal line stand by Lakeland in the third quarter may have been the difference maker in this one.   5A consisted of over 100 teams at the time.  Interestingly, at the same time 10 miles up the coast, Tarpon Springs was hosting Dillard in the 4A final.
Great coaching interviews at the start and end of the game.  Dunedin coach Ken Weir showed a lot of class.  Despite some close officiating calls during the game, he didn't blame the refs for his team's loss.  This was Lakeland's first state title since 1935.  Gotta love the shots and nicknames of the players from that team at the start of the video.  
Under coach Bill Castle, the Naughts were really on the rise in the early 1980's.  They made the 5A state semis in 1982 and 1984.  In both years,  ultimate champion Pensacola Woodham traveled to Lakeland and beat the Naughts.  In their 1986 playoff run, they defeated Tampa Jefferson, Vero Beach, and Jacksonville Sandalwood.  It would be 10 years before Lakeland made it back to a state title game.
Dunedin had some very good teams in the 1980's.  This was the first of back-to-back Class 5A title game appearances.  1986 was a magical year for the Falcons.  In the first round of the playoffs, they traveled to Manatee and shocked the defending state champions 14-10.  They beat visiting Taravella 20-7 in the second round and then then traveled to Miami and beat a very good Carol City team 17-6 in the state semis.  Believe it or not, Dunedin returned the following year and beat the Chiefs in Miami 7-0 in 5A  state semifinal. 
 

That was an exciting time in Lakeland. In '87, Manatee and Lakeland would be grouped in the same district and Lakeland didn't see the playoffs again until 1993.
On a side note, without some legal action by a group of Lakeland supporters, Lakeland would not have seen the playoffs in '86. The FHSAA made them forfeit their early season victory over Winter Haven, a vital district game, due to an alleged ineligible player. Lakeland got a court injunction and were allowed to participate in the playoffs as district champs. The FHSAA's case was dropped in early 1987, allowing Lakeland to keep the state title. Many Lakeland supporters believe the FHSAA held a grudge against Lakeland for many years after that for taking them to court, and not just accepting the forfeit.
Wish I could find a better version of the title game, but I got this off of an old VHS tape that I had to fix to get it to even play.
Here are the Vero & Sandalwood games leading up to this game.
 

This was the Class 5A state title game, held in Dunedin.  Lakeland and Dunedin both had great defenses and each held their 4 playoff opponents that year to only 37 points.  It was a rare showing by a Pinellas County team in a state final.  Dunedin held the Naughts scoreless in the second half and a goal line stand by Lakeland in the third quarter may have been the difference maker in this one.   5A consisted of over 100 teams at the time.  Interestingly, at the same time 10 miles up the coast, Tarpon Springs was hosting Dillard in the 4A final.
Great coaching interviews at the start and end of the game.  Dunedin coach Ken Weir showed a lot of class.  Despite some close officiating calls during the game, he didn't blame the refs for his team's loss.  This was Lakeland's first state title since 1935.  Gotta love the shots and nicknames of the players from that team at the start of the video.  
Under coach Bill Castle, the Naughts were really on the rise in the early 1980's.  They made the 5A state semis in 1982 and 1984.  In both years,  ultimate champion Pensacola Woodham traveled to Lakeland and beat the Naughts.  In their 1986 playoff run, they defeated Tampa Jefferson, Vero Beach, and Jacksonville Sandalwood.  It would be 10 years before Lakeland made it back to a state title game.
Dunedin had some very good teams in the 1980's.  This was the first of back-to-back Class 5A title game appearances.  1986 was a magical year for the Falcons.  In the first round of the playoffs, they traveled to Manatee and shocked the defending state champions 14-10.  They beat visiting Taravella 20-7 in the second round and then then traveled to Miami and beat a very good Carol City team 17-6 in the state semis.  Believe it or not, Dunedin returned the following year and beat the Chiefs in Miami 7-0 in 5A  state semifinal. 
 

Which I why I applaud them for doing so. Best to go their own way because FHSAA, sadly enough, becomes somewhat bureaucratic. 
It gets me though on what is exactly fair for the small powerhouse schools like Madison and Pahokee.  Time and again I've seen 1a powerhouses go and beat teams that are much larger than them.  That said, I don't think they should have to play in a class with schools much larger than them.  The weekly grind wouldn't be fair.  Also what goes up, sooner or later comes back down.  Small towns like these tend to go in cycles.  Fort Meade, Frostproof and Clewiston are good examples of former powerhouses that are struggling right now.  The real issue is the uneven population growth in Florida.  Small towns like these are becoming more and more isolated and fewer in number.  

It was painful bringing up Manatee. Growing up in Lakeland in the 80's, then graduating from Southeast High......they were not the top team on my 'root for' list.

I consider these types of posts "team efforts" and that's what I really like about the forum.   I can put it out there and count on you guys to identify the errors and omissions, which I inevitably make.   It's all about bringing recognition to great players, coaches and teams of the past, so we never forget about them.  They paved the way for the fantastic game we have today. 

You're still the best around here, along with Jessica
You also left off those great Titusville teams under the late Al Werneke. Champs(82 and 83), Runner-up(80)!
They and Astronaut kept LWales from winning at least 2 titles.
https://twitter.com/CountyPolk

What about Manatee? I think they had 8 playoff appearances, 3 state titles, 15 playoff wins.

You can't combine 1A and 2A. 1A is rural. 2A is mostly private schools.   You need to combine 2A and 3A. You do this by lowering the 3A cap from 680 to 630. This expands the new 3a, gives the new 2A more teams and the new 3A more teams.

 

Trying to understand the situation.  I do sympathize with small schools and understand the concern that there was a big gap between schools in population which was why they split the smaller classes back in the early 2000s. We had 1a and 1b and 2a and 2b.  The whole rural vs urban didn't make sense to me.  With the population range overlap with 1a and 2a, I don't understand why that class isn't combined unless it was to separate public and private.  I still thought 3a was all private.
Give you a history lesson - From 1975 to 1986, Hardee mostly played as an independent, 1983 was the exception.  The real reason was due to migrant farm labor kids who came during the fall which is harvest season for citrus farms.  They are here, then leave come spring.  As a result, our population numbers were inflated.  Likewise, because they up and leave with no notice, those kids get classified as "drop outs" which is why Hardee always had the highest drop out rate in Florida.  FHSAA said we had to count these in our numbers which forced us into 3a.  We argued that we should have an exception and be 2a because this was a false inflation to our true population. There were only 4 classes back then in case you didn't know.  FHSAA wouldn't make any exception for us.  We even asked back then the classes be split.  No can do said FHSAA.  There were some other schools in our same situation; DeSoto, Okeechobee, Avon Park, etc.  Same thing, count them and play up, no exceptions.  Hardee had about 800-900 students counting them.  Subtract and we really only had about 500-600.  So our choice was play in 3a, against schools that had double our population, namely Bartow, Lake Wales, Winter Haven, who were all powerhouses, or go independent.  So we choice independent.  During that time period we had a winning season each year, 2 undefeated regular seasons, and won games over other 2a schools that were in the playoffs including one that made two state finals appearances with one title.  Our critics said we didn't play anybody back then. 
 

The Chiefs made back-to-back 4A title game appearances in the late 70's...won one game, lost the other.  Those were their only two playoff appearances.  In the early 70's, only one Miami-Dade team made it to the 4A playoffs.  In the late 70's, two teams did.  There was a lot of parity back then.  One didn't see teams making the playoffs year after year like today.  When a team made the playoffs, it was truly an accomplishment.     

From 72-76...(Other than 1973), a team from Leon County played for the state title, 1976 was Goodby. The Leon/Godby game that season was huge, Godby annihilated Leon that night winning for the very 1st time against Leon.  Leon had played for a state title the previous season. The win propelled Godby to the Playoffs but was costly however as Godby lost a key component of its wishbone attack I want to say his name was Victor Pompey. That Godby team may have been the 1st instance of a state tile game being played at a neutral site, as the state tile game against Carol City was played in Lakeland rather than at a on campus site that was the norm during that time.QB Sammy Knight and TB Chris Hobbs would later play for FAMU and took part in upset win over the University of Miami.

After playing with the numbers my best projection is Flagler Palm Coast will end up with the 7 seed. This is because 6! of the teams on their schedule have the chance to jump a tier with a win this week. Their final range is 38.6-41.6 points. 
This leaves Seminole and West Orange battling for the 8th spot. West Orange's opponents are locked into their tiers whereas Seminole has a chance at 5 more points if Lyman beats Miami Beach and jumps a tier. 
If seminole beats Bishop Moore they will have 38.9-39.4 points depending on Lyman's result. West Orange will finish at 39.1 with a W over Ocoee. 
 
If anyone has run any of the numbers on this region and I have made any mistakes let me know.
Wekiva V. Seminole/West Orange
Winter Park V. Flagler PC
Mandarin V. Deland
Oveido V. Apopka

Well there it is!!! It’s confirmed Miami central is locked in as the 5th seed while Dillard is locked in as the 4th seed with 36 points while mainland is approaching 40 and carol city and others are at 40.
if I’m going to be honest other then playing carol city this was the last match up I wanted usually as a district champion u get a sorry opponent well in Dillard’s case we always get national ranked competition as our reward for being district champion.
but u know what I embrace it coming into this year I knew Dillard wouldn’t be vying for a championship did we improve ? Yes a lot but this year was all about creating a TRUE IDENITY for the program and building a foundation. 
In regards to the game no one in their right mind would pick us to win and rightfully so all I want is for Dillard to leave it all on the field play their best and leave the game injury free and most of all as sophomores and juniors learn from this off season and come back even better next year. GO PANTHERS GO!!!

Full Name: Bobby Butler School: Atlantic High School High school coach: Carney Wilder
College Coach: Bobby Bowden - FSU

Ladies & Gentlemen,
Here is the final playoff points update and breakdown of the season. Next update after this will be the final brackets when they are revealed Sunday. Will be working to get Playoff Central ready so stay tuned!
 

Glades Central is 6-3 not 5-3

We all had to do that in 2015.
There are two big positives I see in Lakeland this year.
1. They do not have the ego's that have been on the team in year's past. That is a big thing that has been noticed by those who are around the team on a consistent basis.
2. They have shown consistent improvement this season. The past few years, they have peaked in the middle of the season, then struggled offensively for the last 4-5 games of the season. Especially in the QB position. This year, they have returned back to a traditional Lakeland style offense and Ski McWilliams has been getting better and better each week. Not to mention he is finally healthy after struggling the first 5 or so weeks with a hamstring injury.
What this will amount to......who knows? But it's been fun to watch so far.

That Gardens team lost to Vero who barely missed the playoffs that year, had a winning record as well and that district was a good one too

The Seminole team that beat Northwestern for the 2008 6A title did not play a particularly tough schedule while the Bulls had an absolutely brutal one.  Likewise, the 2005 Palm Beach Gardens team that won the 6A state title played what some might consider a weak schedule. 
St Thomas Aquinas, Dwyer, Plant, Armwood, Lakeland, and Apopka have all won multiple state titles and had schedules in certain years that some may criticize as "weak" or "average."  What did these 6 teams all have in common?  ..a great coach...who knew how to run efficient practices and prepare his kids physically and mentally for big games.  These results speak for themselves.  Some great coaches know how to get the most out of their teams regardless of their schedule.  

The Seminole team that beat Northwestern for the 2008 6A title did not play a particularly tough schedule while the Bulls had an absolutely brutal one.  Likewise, the 2005 Palm Beach Gardens team that won the 6A state title played what some might consider a weak schedule. 
St Thomas Aquinas, Dwyer, Plant, Armwood, Lakeland, and Apopka have all won multiple state titles and had schedules in certain years that some may criticize as "weak" or "average."  What did these 6 teams all have in common?  ..a great coach...who knew how to run efficient practices and prepare his kids physically and mentally for big games.  These results speak for themselves.  Some great coaches know how to get the most out of their teams regardless of their schedule.